Carlise said:
bngenoh said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes, I don't understand why people got all teary eyed, my response to the video was, "okay" It did not move me at all, but that may be due to many things.
This is true, I find orchestras to be a particularly fine example of beauty. A large group of people coming together and synchronising their actions to create music seems to me a metaphor for what STO life would be like.
Yes, a great metaphor of what could be. Put it another way, it is like the glimpses or flashes of self-consciousness, it just brings me back to the work and what I need to do for I have chosen to do it.
Carlise said:
bngenoh said:
When one factors the context of this place and the truth of that statement, glimpses of what could be are essential so as to give our struggle some meaning, but I don't trust images and my response to them anymore, I only trust actions. Joy, love, trust, etc, they are phantoms to me. Serenity is what I seek, I don't care for joy, I only care to know, learn and understand. I still listen to music though, but just as background noise when I am using the computer which is close to the living room and the t.v. It is merely a tactic so that this mind can function better in the midst of all this.
I know that I am just as mechanical and the state I have found as most useful to constantly struggle against this, is not joy, but serenity, so I cultivate that above any other state of mind. With serenity, I can be and observe without expecting anything from anyone or anything, but with such states as joyous rapture the little I have encountered of it that is, my judgement is numbed, I am at peace and do not seek anything, it is not useful for me in my aim and so I do not cultivate it.
From what I gather you seem to see positive dissociation as a waste of energy and would rather focus on the real and practical for reaching our goals. I am curious as to whether it has always been like that for you, or did you lose interest in music etc after beginning the Work? Personally I have always liked to listen to music for 'inspiration', even after I understood that the effect it has is only temporary and due to brain chemicals. Each of us is different I guess
No, I don't see positive dissociation as a waste of energy, quite the opposite really, I see it as a very constructive use of one's energies because it is a conscious form of rest at least the way I use it.
As an experiment, I just listened to a piece of music that used to move me a lot
Shockwave Sounds - Call For Heroes. While listening to it, I can still feel the way it used to move me, but it is much fainter, I am here noting it and noting the impressions it is making upon my organism, corresponding associations, etc. I can hold the feeling if I so choose but I have no need for it anymore, this is just how I am right now, and as you said, "each of us is different."
parallel said:
Don't you think there is a point to utilizing, experiencing and learning from ones spectrum of (lower) emotional tonality?
Looking at a dictionary; serenity can span from calm to most high or august. Does it work with a presence of 'terror of the situation' and 'death by your side'? Personally I'm not sure that I should be cultivating a specific state, well yeah the magnetic center, but that means working on things 'it' doesn't like, moving out of my comfort zone for shocks (something that I need to turbo step up on). Learning and cleansing the lower centers is turbulent and the upward motion needs friction it seems, can this be done from a state of serenity?
For your first question, yes. For the rest I shall give an example from my experience. When I was literally being trampled upon, and the person who was doing it was a power possessor in the relationship. The quite natural feelings of wanting to strike back had to be held in place, it seemed that the more I tried to control the feeling of anger the stronger it became, probably because the trampling continued. I struggled against this anger which became white hot as it were. I absolutely could not unleash it once it overcame a certain threshold; I had to hold this fire within me and feel it the whole time while simultaneously putting up a calm demeanor, after this period of struggle, the white hot anger became blue and cold and I attained to an inner state where I could look upon this situation, act in it however I chose, feel everything, but yet be inside myself, looking out upon the world while being inside.
That is what I call serenity, it is not properly a state of peace because all the vicissitudes of life can still be felt, but they are naturally put in context. For me, it is the perfect place to work from because the friction can be seen for what it is and utilized in the way I see as most efficient, that is why I cultivate this state, it is a most useful place to be, see and act from, osit.
Thinking about it, I think what I describe as serenity is what Don Juan called impeccability the instance cited above, was the strongest I have ever gotten it to. I have attained to similar states when I meditate consistently for a period, this is how I shall cultivate it among other exercises.
Interestingly enough I just came across this quote:
Joseph Addison said:
"Mirth is like a flash of lightning, that breaks through a gloom of clouds, and glitters for a moment; cheerfulness keeps up a kind of daylight in the mind, and fills it with a steady and perpetual serenity."
Gonzo said:
While it is always important to try to understand a person's intent and know their historic behaviour in order to discern danger from their actions, it should, in my mind, be a separate process from appreciating whatever beauty may have resulted from their efforts, be it by accident or by intent.
To judge an act by the actor put one in a position of missing the gems in the cracks of the pavement, perhaps missing messages from the divine through the most unexpected of messengers.
Willfully closing one's eyes and heart to the reality around oneself because an aspect of that reality is unpleasing just doesn't make practical sense, OSIT.
Gonzo,
You have a knack for cutting through to the essential, and isn't that insight. What you said in the above, especially what I put in bold, is what I have always known and sometimes experienced, but did not put into words and thus it was not conscious.
Yes, just because it is ugly and nasty, causing us pain, does not mean we look away, in fact it means just the opposite, go to it, investigate it and begin to know it and your relation to it, osit.
anart said:
can you see beyond that to the joy that human beings playing music together can bring and how just that simple event can evoke powerful emotions in people trapped in a world gone mad? Having an open and active emotional center is really - really - important. In fact, you can't get any where esoterically without one. Perhaps videos like this can help stir a little positive emotion in a world where it's very hard to find impetus for such? Just a thought.
Hmm anart,
Carlise's comment comes to mind:
Carlise said:
A large group of people coming together and synchronising their actions to create music seems to me a metaphor for what STO life would be like.
For this:
DreamGod said:
Session Date: June 9th 2009
Laura, Ark, An**, Joe, Allen B, Craig P, P L, Ar***, Chu, Gaby, Scottie
Q: (L) This is where I start to get nervous. What if they don't answer?
A: Cassiopaea will not let you down!!!!
Q: (laughter) (L) And who do we have with us tonight?
A: Fortunaea which reminds us that you might like that from Carmina Burana.
Q: (Discussion of Carmina Burana)
A: Some of those lyrics are truly ancient even if the music is not.
Now this is music, this is one of the few that move me deeply, I feel it deeply inside. Thanks for bringing this up because by association, I thought of this
thread which shows the power of "a large group of people coming together and synchronising their actions to create music" to quote Carlise, even in the Congo, Carmina Burana speaks to the indomitable spirit of humanity and that is worth fighting for. Now I feel something.
suelarue thank you for that poem, it brought to mind a poem I wrote a long time ago along those lines.
Turgon said:
bngenoh said:
When one factors the context of this place and the truth of that statement, glimpses of what could be are essential so as to give our struggle some meaning, but I don't trust images and my response to them anymore, I only trust actions. Joy, love, trust, etc, they are phantoms to me. Serenity is what I seek, I don't care for joy, I only care to know, learn and understand. I still listen to music though, but just as background noise when I am using the computer which is close to the living room and the t.v. It is merely a tactic so that this mind can function better in the midst of all this.
I know that I am just as mechanical and the state I have found as most useful to constantly struggle against this, is not joy, but serenity, so I cultivate that above any other state of mind. With serenity, I can be and observe without expecting anything from anyone or anything, but with such states as joyous rapture the little I have encountered of it that is, my judgement is numbed, I am at peace and do not seek anything, it is not useful for me in my aim and so I do not cultivate it.
For some reason, these statements remind me of these comments made by the C's, in particular what I bolded. You say you are searching for peace, serenity, which is a noble attainment. I do enjoy what small times of serenity I receive, but learning can and does lead to joy (sometimes not), depending on the lesson, and trust is essential to have with people who are of like mind. So there is something deeply missing in what you are saying if from my understanding, joy, love and trust are an expense not worth considering in your striving for serenity.
I see joy, love, trust, etc, as results of working to attain an aim, & in my time here, I can say that you all have come the closest anyone has to those concepts in this lifetime, which has been relatively short but then, aren't all lifetimes "short." ;) Let me tell you that is really saying something, I do hold you in my heart. The serenity I work towards, is merely a useful state with which to work to attain to the higher states of joy, love, trust and BEING all rooted in knowledge.
Thanks for posting that session, it is a good reminder Turgon.
Hithere said:
Thank you for your post bngenoh; it reintroduced me me to my own tendency to detach myself from the workings of the world, which is sometimes for me pure escapism. That could be different for you, but it is a useful reminder for me.
[...]
And thank you Turgon for the quote; it undelines the need for finding the right balance between constructive detachment and positive interaction.
"Be in the world but not of it" as the saying goes, it speaks to both points that you have raised above Hithere, balance is truly a hard thing to dis-cover, but a worthwhile treasure to seek I think, and maybe, just maybe if we, in the words of the snip from Ulysses posted by Alana; "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield," we shall find it, but I'm not holding out any illusions, tis work.
Thank you as well, for bringing up that point Hithere.
Carlise said:
Strangely enough the hardest thing to do for me, though, is to simply have faith. When I'm stood in work for hours on end flipping burgers, it's easy to slip into closed mindedness and forget myself and why I'm here. Hopefully soon enough I will not have to use my time and energy working for a soulless employer just to survive, comets might just give us some independence! But for now, lessons lessons lessons!
Carlise, let me tell you that you are a source of inspiration to me. and yes having faith as in real faith is so difficult for me as well, the anti-christ without and within have done a masterful job in stepping on that seed, but yet since it speaks to something that is eternal, and something that I have chosen to strengthen, I shant let them step on it any more, at least when I become aware of myself.
Mac said:
We would have a dreary life, for sure, if we let the intellect swoop down, picking apart all our joys before we have a chance to experience the delight.
Nor should we let our emotions be free from scrutiny of the intellect.
We need both the Intellectual and Emotional centers operating fully, each doing the work that they are designed to do.
Yes, we would have a dreary life if we let the intellect swoop down and pick apart any and all emotion that is engendered by a given impression and subsequent association, that's where I've been these past few days, and it takes work to rein in the intellect as in Einstein's quote, one of my favorites by the way:
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
dugdeep said:
The way I see it, the evil is just riding on the coattails of something truly creative and inspirational. If you don't learn to tune it out, sort the B from the A influences, you'll lead a rather dull existence, I would think.
Yes one would dugdeep, this discernment thing is a real killer of a lesson, but worthwhile as I see it. "Evil" or entropy, cannot create anything, but it can definitely use, through distortion, what has already been created, osit.