Session 22 October 2022

[Pat]

What?!?! It is called seeing the unseen. It is only limited by your awareness and your
knowledge. How can you be aware of something if you don't even know that it exists?
Your post shows lack of knowledge.

@littlehelp, I read you and it reminds me of someone I know, someone looking for answers but very young and new to the aleas of this earth... Do you have physical experiences which show how uneven we are in the battle we are in? Are you angry?

Why the name? Are you looking for help or do you believe that your mission is to help others even if not asked? You would need to do the search and try to find the answers for yourself... all is how it's supposed to be. There is no rush, no good answer and bad answer. What we don't learn, life will give us the opportunity to learn it again be it tomorrow or in the next cycle. Peace to you

 

[littlehelp]

@littlehelp, I read you and it reminds me of someone I know, someone looking for answers but very young and new to the aleas of this earth... Do you have physical experiences which show how uneven we are in the battle we are in? Are you angry?

Why the name? Are you looking for help or do you believe that your mission is to help others even if not asked? You would need to do the search and try to find the answers for yourself... all is how it's supposed to be. There is no rush, no good answer and bad answer. What we don't learn, life will give us the opportunity to learn it again be it tomorrow or in the next cycle. Peace to you

Hello Pat, it is nice to meet you. I honestly don't know the answers to your questions.
But you said something very powerful - all is how it's supposed to be. But doesn't it mean
that also I am who I am supposed to be? And also I am exactly where I am supposed to be?
lots of health and happiness to you

 

[forest_light]

@littlehelp,
In my experience, when most people arrive at a gathering at someones' house, they do the courtesy of introducing themselves, or at least greeting people in a cordial manner, particularly when others make the effort to greet and interact with them.

Added to that, generally speaking, they make an effort to communicate with the people at the gathering, they take the time to connect and get to know people, they LISTEN to what others have to say and interact in a respectful manner, even if they don't 'like' some of the people at the gathering. They don't sneak around just eavesdropping on conversations, gathering intel so they can suddenly make blanket statements about everyone at the gathering at some point as if they have profound knowledge and wisdom and have been divinely enlightened. When asked a question by someone at the gathering, they answer (again, respectfully). It is not a problem if they have a different opinion about a topic, but the way in which they offer their views and how intelligently they communicate that, is key to how productive that discussion will be.

Occasionally (in this particular house), a new visitor struts in, jumps up on the coffee table in the middle of the living room, attempts to hijack and monopolise the conversation, enlightening everyone in the room with their underwhelming 'wisdom' and unsolicited opinions about subjects they clearly know little about. It's nothing new and it surprises nobody. People will tolerate a newcomer like this for a brief period, ask them their name, encourage them to get off the table, get back on the same level that everyone else is on, try to have a rational discussion and ask them to clarify their views. If the newcomer does not behave in a sane and basically respectful manner, they generally don't last long in the house.

Either you have entered this house because you are genuinely committed to sharing what you consider to be valuable, meaningful and insightful contributions and observations, and are prepared to offer this info like a normal, sane, rational being with some level of consciousness, self awareness and respect for yourself and others present, or you are basically a gatecrasher or total psycho who has decided (either by your own volition or having been encouraged by others) to rock up to the house, do their best to cause a scene, and attempt to gain some attention. (They do say that any attention is good attention for those who never received enough as children.) If all else fails people like this will generally try kicking in a few windows and knocking over a few vases before they leave. It's pretty boring really. Most people just turn away and continue on with their much more interesting conversations.

So... if you truly have something to say, how about doing everyone the courtesy of answering some basic questions?

How did you come by the forum?
How long have you been observing the interactions here?
What is your interest in connecting with others here?
What do you hope to achieve by engaging with others in the forum?
Are you this charming with everyone?
Is this seriously your idea of STO behaviour?
(Because it appears you feel your 'offerings' are meant to help / inspire people here)

Would be delighted to receive a coherent reply to all of the above.

 

[Pat]

@littlehelp
Thank you for your response.
I know, it's in the family, we ask too many questions. One last one if you allow me.
"but doesn't it mean that also I am who I am supposed to be?" I would say differently, we are where we are supposed to be, BUT how you express yourself is up to you.
Do you feel that some things have been learnt by yourself with the different exchanges you had on the forum?
Thank u for our exchange.

 

[Wandering Star]

Hello Pat, it is nice to meet you. I honestly don't know the answers to your questions.
But you said something very powerful - all is how it's supposed to be. But doesn't it mean
that also I am who I am supposed to be? And also I am exactly where I am supposed to be?
lots of health and happiness to you

When I read you, I have remembered the phrase from the movie Men in Black, when after being accepted by the men in black, K told J (Will Smith)... "From this moment on, everything you think you know it's useless" (I'm paraphrasing).

There is a lot, a lot to read and understand around here.

A huge job.

 

[Joe]

That is actually a very good question. But to be honest it scares me that a core member of the group is asking this.

You're easily scared!

1. If you want to go somewhere, first you have to find a way how to get there. This means that a good deal of studying is required and of course thinking to process all the information and gather knowledge.

Is that meant to be a revelation? I mean, you're saying that progress requires studying and thinking. Wow.

2. If you know how to get there then of course you have to act according to what you have learned during the preparatory phase. That is you might think that you know in theory what it entails to get there but now you have to put your knowledge into action and see for yourself that it is not that easy, or is it?

Putting knowledge into action is necessary, and that isn't easy. More wow.

Well if you chose STO path then clearly it means to help others. And if you chose STS path it means to help self and exploiting and using others as much as you can. Sometimes it is possible also to deceive them into thinking that you are there to help, but you are actually not.

Dude, do you think you're revealing something we don't know?

Maybe it is enough to understand simple karmic understandings. But i feel like learning as much as one can is always good. The problem, of course is, that many people give importance to things that are actually not important at all and thus they make effort in the wrong direction really thus as a result they are left behind. Once the reality hits them and they feel like being abandoned, they always show true colors and try to prevent others to be successfull. I think that is it in a nutshell.

Double wow.

 

[Joe]

thank you for your post it truly helped me to understand better the inner working of the group. Hmm your post is actually making me even more sad. It is as you say, many people are doing all they can, yet the results do not reflect it. As if the the engine is doing all it can but the gearbox is missing. Or maybe the wheels are stuck. Or both.

When I was talking about the progress I was not talking about what it should be, but about what it can be.
I do not belong anywhere, I observe everything from afar, therefore i am not biased. I count only the effort in the direction of the progress of the soul. All other is not important. But I see that many people are still busy doing unimportant things. Let me ask everyone a question. If you would die right now, in this moment, what is it that you would regret the most?
And if you can answer it honestly for your self, well, then you know what you should be doing right now.

If this was a tug of war I could withstand the effort of the entire group. And I am just a single individual. I would not budge. And it has nothing to do with me being strong. It has to do with how scattered the group is.

The forum is actually a good indicator of the progress, because the posts reflect who you truly are. There is considerable amount of selfish posts. You can count them and make the statistics for yourself. The more selfishness is present, the harder it is to move forward. It is literally choking you to death. Anything STS is preventing you to choose the family of light therefore inhibiting your progress. And it is exponentially magnified when it comes to a group.

Now I understand that when I was talking about effort to make the progress, for most it was very abstract term. Up until now you concentrated on the knowledge and understanding which of course is important but it is not all. Helping others is a process consisting of three steps. You are at step number one. Even if you would have the entirety of knowledge but you wouldn't
use it, you literally cannot achieve anything. Such knowledge is useless. But of course if you don't have knowledge regarding something, you are not even aware of that something, you cannot do anything against it. The missing knowledge is that you all have sts uplink. You have firm connection to STS. So how are you expecting to progress when you are firmly tethered to STS? They will not allow you to progress. They are extremely powerful and very well organized. Compared to them you are just a bunch of kids playing in a sandbox. No wonder they were laughing at you until now.

Severing the sts uplink is the first order of business if you are serious about making progress. But if I may advise you - it is not good to rush anything. It is not good to make anything unnecessary. Prepare yourself well before you make the first step. Because afterward there is no turning back.

Why are you rehashing basic concepts and presenting them as if they are new information. They are not. It seems you really don't understand anything about this forum or the topics we discuss. As such, I think you're in the

 

[Joe]

I can literally take you out one by one.

That sounds like a threat. So I think a ban is in order.

 

[Alejo]

That sounds like a threat. So I think a ban is in order.

I second, no discussion is really taking place at this time. I think it has become disrupting more than anything.

 

[Ina]

If you look at your post do you think it has potential to help others? Well, any post has potential to help others, but in this case the post mostly confuses everyone. You are trying to convince everyone that the percentages are not what is important. Well, clearly one first needs to have a goal in order to find a way toward that goal, and the percentage clearly says, that an individual is eligible for fourth level only if such individual cares more about others than self. Thus one can say that the percentage is very important for those who are serious about the progress, if only as an indicator of the progress itself.

There is actually a proverb that says: Even the slowest individual with a goal is faster then someone with no goal at all.

But I also see that there is possibility that you actually had beautiful thought, you just expressed the thought in a very clumsy way:
The ultimate goal is to help others not because you want something for self, but because the best reward ever, when you help, is to feel the joy of others in your heart.

Now that is truly beautiful thought, it just needed little better translation into words, right?:) This could have been done by anyone in the group but I guess it was my turn to do it for you. And I am sure we will get there eventually but first we need to learn how to help others.
Now one can see how the knowledge and love blooms in sto community where people complement each other and help each other.

Call it clumsy, I don’t mind. I have never been very clear in expressing my thoughts not even in my mother tongue nevermind English language. But you do not refer to the clarity of the questions but to the clarity of expressing the intention originating them, the focus of my attention while thinking about formulating the question.
Well, some times I live the focus of my attention hidden, and that’s because I consider it auxiliary, more like a tool. When you explain or ask questions about the architectural detail of a house, you do not start contextualizing the cornice plastering technique with the underlying bric composition.
Returning to my post. Personally, the STO vs STS everything, lives me quite cold, and that’s because I cannot understand its necessity. I see the dynamic of the duality relative and sublective and as a fluctuating property on a range with very well defined end terms. Not only that, but this dual capacity it is highly depending on the individual.
As far as I am concerned, whenever I can, I do help, because THAT is my natural duty, and not as a source of joy.
My joy feelings are produced when I see something finished for which I’ve sweatted buckets and the effort tested my physical or mental limits.
And no, you did not offend me.

 

[Odin]

Hello Pat, it is nice to meet you. I honestly don't know the answers to your questions.
But you said something very powerful - all is how it's supposed to be. But doesn't it mean
that also I am who I am supposed to be? And also I am exactly where I am supposed to be?
lots of health and happiness to you

Based on your posts in this thread I read your reply to Pat as follows:

"Hello Pat, it is nice to meet you." - The only thing sincere in this sentence is the "Hello" part. You don't think it's nice to meet Pat but you are glad that someone with a kind heart responded to your nonsense in a way that may give you an opportunity to further manipulate and serve yourself.

"I honestly don't know the answers to your questions." - You obviously don't know the answer to most of life's questions let alone the ones presented to you by Pat. The use of the word "honestly" is used in a way to manipulate further.

"But you said something very powerful" - This is just meaningless flattering to further your own deranged agenda.

"all is how it's supposed to be. But doesn't it mean
that also I am who I am supposed to be? And also I am exactly where I am supposed to be?" - This part is interesting. To use an obvious truth "all is how it's supposed to be"(a fact if you zoom out far enough and think that free will is a real thing) and twisting that into that you must be what you are for a reason(somehow not in your control). Going straight into victim mode to gain some sympathy. I don't buy it for one second.

"lots of health and happiness to you" - I don't think you really mean this. Again, flattering and good wishes are used as a pure manipulative technic to further your own agenda.

This breakdown might be too harsh or simply not correct but following @littlehelps "contribution" to this thread it makes my blood boil when he/she tries to manipulate good and kind people like Pat into their zone of influence.

I have met many of them in real life and they have tricked me more than enough now. I hope I have learned enough now to spot and removed such characters before they can do more damage.

My 2 cents.

 

[Pat]

This breakdown might be too harsh or simply not correct but following @littlehelps "contribution" to this thread it makes my blood boil when he/she tries to manipulate good and kind people like Pat into their zone of influence.
.
@Odin
I think i understand your stance but I am not happy for you to use me in your argument. That's your perspective not mine.
We all have lessons to learn, if your blood boil that could mean a reason for you to ask yourself why?

 

[Odin]

I think i understand your stance but I am not happy for you to use me in your argument. That's your perspective not mine.

You are absolutely right, Pat. What I wrote is 100% my perspective on what littlehelp had been writing here in general and the post to you was the one that I commented on. If you see that I used you in my arguments, I apologize. That was not my intention but I see now how you can see it that way.

We all have lessons to learn, if your blood boil that could mean a reason for you to ask yourself why?

I have been but I don't have a good answer. I am very angry with the level of deceit and manipulation in our world. The post from littlehelp to you tipped me over and I acted out in an emotional way that was not respecting you or your position. I should have taken a more general approach and not involved you in it. This was a mistake by me and I am sorry. Thank you for replying and pointing it out.

 

[Glenn]

thank you for your post it truly helped me to understand better the inner working of the group. Hmm your post is actually making me even more sad. It is as you say, many people are doing all they can, yet the results do not reflect it. As if the the engine is doing all it can but the gearbox is missing. Or maybe the wheels are stuck. Or both.

When I was talking about the progress I was not talking about what it should be, but about what it can be.
I do not belong anywhere, I observe everything from afar, therefore i am not biased. I count only the effort in the direction of the progress of the soul. All other is not important. But I see that many people are still busy doing unimportant things. Let me ask everyone a question. If you would die right now, in this moment, what is it that you would regret the most?
And if you can answer it honestly for your self, well, then you know what you should be doing right now.

If this was a tug of war I could withstand the effort of the entire group. And I am just a single individual. I would not budge. And it has nothing to do with me being strong. It has to do with how scattered the group is.

The forum is actually a good indicator of the progress, because the posts reflect who you truly are. There is considerable amount of selfish posts. You can count them and make the statistics for yourself. The more selfishness is present, the harder it is to move forward. It is literally choking you to death. Anything STS is preventing you to choose the family of light therefore inhibiting your progress. And it is exponentially magnified when it comes to a group.

Now I understand that when I was talking about effort to make the progress, for most it was very abstract term. Up until now you concentrated on the knowledge and understanding which of course is important but it is not all. Helping others is a process consisting of three steps. You are at step number one. Even if you would have the entirety of knowledge but you wouldn't
use it, you literally cannot achieve anything. Such knowledge is useless. But of course if you don't have knowledge regarding something, you are not even aware of that something, you cannot do anything against it. The missing knowledge is that you all have sts uplink. You have firm connection to STS. So how are you expecting to progress when you are firmly tethered to STS? They will not allow you to progress. They are extremely powerful and very well organized. Compared to them you are just a bunch of kids playing in a sandbox. No wonder they were laughing at you until now.

Severing the sts uplink is the first order of business if you are serious about making progress. But if I may advise you - it is not good to rush anything. It is not good to make anything unnecessary. Prepare yourself well before you make the first step. Because afterward there is no turning back.

Are you a speech writer for Trudeau? Lot's of undefined terms and concepts (platitudes/word salad). At least I have no idea what you actually mean by talking about these concepts.

Reminds me of the talk around the green agenda, or the pharma industry, 'we are here to help you, keep you healthy, save the world' when in reality they are doing the opposite, while bathing everything in positive language. So terms, unless clearly defined, are pretty much useless, and can be used easily for nefarious reasons.

The bolded part from above,

If this was a tug of war I could withstand the effort of the entire group. And I am just a single individual. I would not budge. And it has nothing to do with me being strong. It has to do with how scattered the group is.

just tells me that your sacred cows will be defended to the death...

 

[christx11]

How does your posts contribute to the progress of others ?

Quit being so obtuse. Challenging my worth to the group would require effort on your part. All of my posts are available to you to read and evaluate at the click of a button. But that would require effort on your part rather than you demanding the efforts of others to prove themselves to you.

Except for speculations, speaking for others and bashing of others there is nothing else.

From my perspective, it is you that continually denigrates others, continually speaks for others. It is you that has come here and are telling everyone how to properly work, what is of value to the group, what is not of value to the group, what we are doing wrong and how it should be properly done by your own personal measuring stick. I haven't bashed anyone except perhaps you in your perception of yourself and how you might be perceived by other people here and it is not as if others here do not have that same uneasiness with how you are presenting yourself, in fact it seems pretty common from what I can discern. One of the main purposes of the forum is the feedback of others so that we can hopefully see how others perceive us. It gets us out of our own internal self-reinforcing feedback loops - hopefully. It is a difficult thing to realize that what you think you are or what you think you are doing is perceived non-positively. Especially when multiple people have that same uneasiness with your presentation of yourself. It seems to me that most exchanges you are engaging in, that the feedback is such that you are being perceived as an outsider who has arrived to teach everyone the proper way to run their own household.

I am speaking for myself and my perception of how I think your are treating almost everyone you have engaged with in this thread. If that is not clear then I will state it again. It is my perception of how you present yourself and how you are treating others that you are attempting to communicate with.


If you don't understand something, viseacring about it doesn't help anyone. If anything it only confuses people.


Once again it is your own self speaking for others. Are you speaking for 'anyone' or yourself? I will try to be more clear in how I perceived your response to Ina. If you take it as wiseacring so be it. I am providing my impression of your presentation of yourself, so far. You may perceive it as harsh, but on my side you are going beyond harsh to Ina, even to the level of disrespect and insolence and I think insolence is closer to the meaning of wiseacring than anything I have presented.

I think Ina's first question about the percentages was basically that perhaps it is not so important to nit-pick about percentages. Which I agree with. I don't think this is the first time this kind of thing has been discussed, minutia that we will not be able to really understand until and if we get there.

But here is your response to that simple question/observation and suggestion she made, with my comments on how I perceived your response to her. This is my feedback to you specifically on how you come off to me personally in responding to Ina's idea about perhaps percentages are not so important to focus on.

If you look at your post do you think it has potential to help others?
To me this comes off as demeaning, as if your are pontificating that only your judgment counts. Instead of attempting to understand Ina or illicit clarification, you have immediately judged her and her post as not measuring up to your own personal standards of what is or is not helpful, which you are projecting should be the group's standards. I perceive all of your postings so far like this. You have judged the group and how it does things and you think it is broken and must be fixed and you are here to show people how it is broken and how you can personally fix it.


Well, any post has potential to help others,
This seems belittling to me in the context of your presentation of it.


but in this case the post mostly confuses everyone.
Now this seems really belittling to me. You have made your own personal judgment and are speaking for everyone here and not just for yourself. If you are confused by what Ina said, then say that you are confused and not that it mostly confuses everyone, and engage with her and try to understand her. Do not just tell someone that what they said is crap and that they could have done better and then present it as if the entire board perceives it as you do.


You are trying to convince everyone that the percentages are not what is important.
I do not perceive Ina's response as trying to convince everyone. She contributed her thoughts and others can respond and discuss it. I agree with her in fact. Getting caught up in percentages or nit-picking about them may not have a lot of importance. Ina did not confuse me nor attempt to convince me of anything. Ina contributed thoughts.


Well, clearly one first needs to have a goal in order to find a way toward that goal,
You speak as if this is some great revelation. Clearly to get to the store I must want to go to the store first. Well yes that is pretty obvious.



and the percentage clearly says, that an individual is eligible for fourth level only if such individual cares more about others than self. Thus one can say that the percentage is very important for those who are serious about the progress, if only as an indicator of the progress itself.

And this is probably close to what Ina was trying to point out and that I agree with. Percentages are only helpful if a person knows what the thing is you are trying to measure and what tool do you use to measure it with and in our 3D reality it seems it may be more important to attempt to understand what true help is and what true asking is than to get caught up in measuring it. In fact from my perspective trying to measure it and track your progress or anyone else's in our reality is kind of nonsensical and what is important is making efforts to refine our understanding of everything that is hidden from us and what it means to truly ask for help and to truly provide help that is asked for.

You come off as very matter of fact here that this should be simple and obvious to any dimwit. But what seems very simple (discerning what is really helpful what is true sincere asking ) is really very complicated and quite often we are wrong and do not understand the consequences of our actions. It is not so simple and trying to measure something that we are often wrong about seems like a very risky and not productive activity. Maybe we should spend more time trying to understand what we are trying to measure.



There is actually a proverb that says: Even the slowest individual with a goal is faster then someone with no goal at all.

Really? There is actually a proverb? Yes, I am being sarcastic here. Because you present this as some great enlightening information that you are gifting us here. Actually there is tons of information on this forum about goals and goal setting. But it would require sincere effort on your part and a little searching or asking to realize that.



But I also see that there is possibility that you actually had beautiful thought, you just expressed the thought in a very clumsy way:
Once again you come off as belittling and superior. Once again you seem to be telling Ina that perhaps what she said was very beautiful, but she is just really crappy in the way she presented it and you can help make it beautiful by correcting its deficiencies.


The ultimate goal is to help others not because you want something for self, but because the best reward ever, when you help, is to feel the joy of others in your heart.
I will say it again. 'reward' in my understanding is wanting something in return for effort or even for no effort and from the understanding I have, wanting anything is STS. That does not mean joy and mirth and awe and emotions do not exist in STO, but to me 'reward' is not involved.



Now that is truly beautiful thought, it just needed little better translation into words, right?:) This could have been done by anyone in the group but I guess it was my turn to do it for you. And I am sure we will get there eventually but first we need to learn how to help others.
I am being snarky here, but this is how I perceive you - Ina and the entire group should thank you for fixing Ina's deficiencies in expressing herself. All she needed was for you to come a long and fix it and make it proper and clear, right?:) Anyone could have done it, but I guess we all were just fortunate to have you as a teacher that was capable of seeing its deficiencies and you could do it for her. From my understanding - doing something for someone when they did not ask is detrimental to self and others and you seem to be proud of that and you seem to want everyone to recognize your example of what you think is true helping. What else are you going to do for others here with your lack of understanding of what the group is about and lack of understanding of some of the basic concepts the group is striving to understand, each in their own lesson plan.



Now one can see how the knowledge and love blooms in sto community where people complement each other and help each other.
Everyone should thank you because now by your example you have demonstrated what true STO is and what true help is and we can all now see what true love and light on ferry wings is. Thank you. I really do not understand your definition of complement or being complimentary. If you think how you responded to Ina was an example of how sto works and compliments and helps each other, then why does your presentation of yourself come off as so superior and offensive? How is that helping anyone other than learning how to be inconsiderate to others.


End of - QUOTE="littlehelp in response to Ina

*** back to littlehelp original quote to me

Or are you already STO that you know how they are thinking and what they are feeling?

Did I ever even say that I am the all knowing on what STO thinks and feels? No. What I said was, "STO probably does not know what reward even is, it is just a part of who and what they are". And I say that because the C's have said (paraphrasing) "wanting anything is STS". I also said "probably", that imparts the notion that I do not know for sure, but it is my understanding to this point. To me the word "reward" connotes an act performed that in return makes the person performing the act feel good, whether emotionally, physically or monetarily. The issue I had with your specific phrase was the specific use of the word "reward" and you kind of went off the deep end on this simple observation/comment.


Only @Ina can know whether I said something unnecessary that offended her or hurt her.
Nonsense. It is perfectly within my purview to be offended by how you treat someone else and to speak up, regardless of whether that person perceived it as a wrong. If a man slaps a woman in the face and the woman says its ok, I am alright, its ok, that still does not make it right, that does not justify the behavior. If I am out of line and you are the teacher and example the forum has been waiting for then I expect someone to speak up and set me straight.


I will welcome any opportunity to learn. But it is her decision whether she shares her experience with me or not. I do not want anything from anyone.

""

It seems to me that you want not only to determine the needs of the people you are interacting with in this thread, but it seems to me that you want to determine the needs of the entire group by your own measuring stick.

It seems you have numbered our group and you have weighed us in the balances and found us wanting. And only you can save us from ourselves.

That is how I have perceived your interactions, to this point. I am not speaking for others. I am speaking for myself and how I perceive you.

This is not the first rodeo per se where a newbie has come in to this forum and their first few posts are reflected back to the poster in a way diametrically opposed to poster's own view of themselves. Out of the thousands and thousands of persons that have come here maybe a dozen or so have acted in this manner. Some are able to question themselves and ask why they are perceived so differently from what they think they are trying to project. But most do not get it. I honestly hope someday we can have a collinear fruitful discussion. But that does not seem possible right now.