Session 4 July 2015
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
That is awesome, the gift some people have with language! Thank for reposting it.
gottathink said:
Ditto - made me cry ...
shellycheval
The Living Force
Prometeo
"Where are the other 95%?" is a good question. Unfortunately there appears to be plenty of evidence that the five percent who are essential psychopaths have a disproportionately negative effect on the rest of the population and culture in general. Also, many areas where the people in charge have a lot of power over others and society; like politics, military, police force, medicine, religion, etc.; these professions attract a much higher percent of psychopaths who then are in positions of power and able and HAPPY to do great harm. Keep in mind that successful psychopaths can fool even the most astute professionals who are watching for them. So, most of the 95% are being fooled by the psychos at large! Read the following SOTT article and the book itself, as well as Dr. Martha Stout, and Dr Hare's Without a Conscience to really get a better feel of how much damage this 5% can have on the rest of the world.
http://www.sott.net/article/298921-Book-review-of-Snakes-in-Suits-When-Psychopaths-Go-To-Work
"Where are the other 95%?" is a good question. Unfortunately there appears to be plenty of evidence that the five percent who are essential psychopaths have a disproportionately negative effect on the rest of the population and culture in general. Also, many areas where the people in charge have a lot of power over others and society; like politics, military, police force, medicine, religion, etc.; these professions attract a much higher percent of psychopaths who then are in positions of power and able and HAPPY to do great harm. Keep in mind that successful psychopaths can fool even the most astute professionals who are watching for them. So, most of the 95% are being fooled by the psychos at large! Read the following SOTT article and the book itself, as well as Dr. Martha Stout, and Dr Hare's Without a Conscience to really get a better feel of how much damage this 5% can have on the rest of the world.
http://www.sott.net/article/298921-Book-review-of-Snakes-in-Suits-When-Psychopaths-Go-To-Work
cubbex
The Living Force
Yeah, I don't deny the evidence. Maybe you didn't read my post carefully, I mentioned Andrew who focus on the pathologization of society. Indeed I know how psychopaths are, and how they function. So I see part of the process of domination, through violence and such, which points then to the authoritarian personality who can't question authorities. But still, I think there's more to it than that, there must be a process needed to be described so that we get, why societies always fall for a psychopath.
Data created a post which quotes Gurdjieff about it. Pity, may be related to why psychopaths win. But Andrew describes the process in a way, that makes the psychopath be like just a random pathological dude, who got in the power out of luck! like, the door was open and the psychopath takes the opportunity. The characteropath comes and charms, but it appears all the interesting process of pathologization, uses and depends more on pathological individuals, who are not the essential psychopath, as if it is a process which needs more from the other pathos than that of the psychopath, who comes at the end, whenever the opportunity let's him gain the trust of others. The psychopath goes from an instrumental attitude, to be an arm with full institutional thought, as if his will is of the institution is working on, as if this backs the psychopath up, or if this is the way they gian trust. Then, from using the instutition, to using others for him and the institution, the institutiion becomes his image.
I see in the psychopath indeed good traits combined with the worse. The psychopaths who reach power are doing something right, or someone who pities the psychopath is doing it right.
Even between psychopaths, the successful ones with political or militaristic careers are rare to me, I don't see the mayority of psychopaths being a top notch advanced human, I see the psychopath as a moron, an asshole. A person who lacks creativity in any way. So how, such a pathetic being can become something so damn dangerous? do the psychopath succeeds for a trait of a psychopath, or it does because of one lacking faculty in human beings? or maybe from a lack of awareness? a fear for imperfection? why? how humans also create the conditions for a psychopath to succeed? why is it that some humans to enjoy serving the psychopath.
The psycho is not a devil dressed as a nasty devil, but more like one weak saint wich abuses of good will. On the need from most of all people to live in security, in peace. We can start moralizing it, but becomes irrelevant, moralization of things have never helped us.
Data created a post which quotes Gurdjieff about it. Pity, may be related to why psychopaths win. But Andrew describes the process in a way, that makes the psychopath be like just a random pathological dude, who got in the power out of luck! like, the door was open and the psychopath takes the opportunity. The characteropath comes and charms, but it appears all the interesting process of pathologization, uses and depends more on pathological individuals, who are not the essential psychopath, as if it is a process which needs more from the other pathos than that of the psychopath, who comes at the end, whenever the opportunity let's him gain the trust of others. The psychopath goes from an instrumental attitude, to be an arm with full institutional thought, as if his will is of the institution is working on, as if this backs the psychopath up, or if this is the way they gian trust. Then, from using the instutition, to using others for him and the institution, the institutiion becomes his image.
I see in the psychopath indeed good traits combined with the worse. The psychopaths who reach power are doing something right, or someone who pities the psychopath is doing it right.
Even between psychopaths, the successful ones with political or militaristic careers are rare to me, I don't see the mayority of psychopaths being a top notch advanced human, I see the psychopath as a moron, an asshole. A person who lacks creativity in any way. So how, such a pathetic being can become something so damn dangerous? do the psychopath succeeds for a trait of a psychopath, or it does because of one lacking faculty in human beings? or maybe from a lack of awareness? a fear for imperfection? why? how humans also create the conditions for a psychopath to succeed? why is it that some humans to enjoy serving the psychopath.
The psycho is not a devil dressed as a nasty devil, but more like one weak saint wich abuses of good will. On the need from most of all people to live in security, in peace. We can start moralizing it, but becomes irrelevant, moralization of things have never helped us.
BHelmet
The Living Force
shellycheval said:
I view it as a kind of Catch 22: You can not limit or stop or reign in the psychopaths without abridging their free will; which in turn would dampen your own FRV if you are leaning toward STO alignment: Part of the lesson of STO candidates in a 3D STS environment. Also dovetails nicely with all the 'be not of this world' / 'their reward is in this world' type of wisdom teachings. i.e. You can't 'win' without becoming like 'them'.
Prometeo said:
Interestingly, the topic came up around here recently since we are digging into the new germ theory of disease as is in the book by Paul W. Ewald, "Plague Time". It seems that when the Cs made the remark about parasitical infestation, it may very well have had something to do with this problem you are considering.
Consider what we have learned about toxoplasmosis gondii and how it makes mice vulnerable to cats and changes the personalities of humans as well?
What about all these other pathogens that we are now learning about that obviously must be increasing terrifically in the global population right along with the increasing epidemics of cancer, autoimmune disorders, obesity, etc?
Well, what if these pathogens also make individuals weak and susceptible to psychopaths? Like "induced submission and niceness"?? That is to say, we ought to be studying physical pathology right alongside psychopathology. "As above, so below" at all scales. Different types of pathogens at the micro scale could help us understand pathways of societal infection, some pathogens analogically representing different types of psychopaths.
For example: there are some infectious agents that jump on you, make you very sick, and kill you, but you don't infect many people because you die first. That's like the murdering psychopath. They're the unsuccessful kind because they get caught and stopped. Then there are other types of pathogens that invade your body and find places to hide. They linger and do incremental damage, little by little. They break you down and destroy your body. Those are the ones that spread like a psychopath or spellbinder that spreads ideas.
There's a virus that gets inside, has itself reproduce like a leader would do converting his minions with paramoralisms... But there are others that hide inside other cells and they go unnoticed. They give their thoughts, their DNA, to the cell and they can go for years without doing anything. But whenever the system is weak, BOOM! Rather similar to being infected by a pathogen that changes your thinking thus making you submissive to psychopathy, even almost to the extent of being one by proxy.
In a sense, Lobaczewski talked about this a bit when he described the family in Austria consisting of the two brothers and an evil sister who pathologized their minds from early childhood. That happens to most of us by exposure to our social "norms" which, when you really think about some of them, are purely pathological.
Yeah, I think Laura is definitely onto something. Weakening populations en mass through chronic health issues is a powerful way of breaking down resistance (especially if the pathogen also changes your attitudes and personality). Plus, the pathological types have been infiltrating all areas of influence for millenia and spreading their toxic influence throughout society. And, also, Laura has written in the past (particularly for Dot Connector and also carried on SOTT) that the psychopaths are a caricature of things that humans used to share and long for, but now fall for the counterfeit because the non-pathological humans are so traumatized and inhibited in their natural, healthy relationships - when a psychopath observes what "normal" people long for and manipulates that to get what they want, the only defense is a deep awareness and continual Work on the self. Or so I think.
fabric said:
Thanks for this Fabric. :)
