Session 6 December 2025

[palestine]

@MJF

Thank you for your post, I did not read it in its entirety. It is very interesting, thank you. One passage caught my attention:

Hence, is it really so surprising that the Assassins, drawing on the teachings of the Grand Lodge of the Ismailis in Cairo, should have a seven-fold chain of creation where a man (an initiate) could work through these grades as far as Universal Reason

The kind of "Universal reason" that this refers to, may be kind of corrupted ("assassinating people to reach reason")

Something seems really off, in this area of the occult

 

[panoptix]

You mention the Venetians in your post and link them with the Rosicrucians. I would be grateful if you could expound upon this link in more detail since most be people link the 17th century Rosicrucians with Germany and with Sir Francis Bacon and his followers in England and not necessarily with Venice.

It is referred in a few chapters of Schrödter's Die Geheimkünste der Rosenkreuzer (A Rosicrucian Notebook); I quote some of them:

This “Auto-Alchemical Processing” was first formulated in Charam ed Din by Sheikh Yachya, but must go back to the hermit Ben Chasi who was the “spiritual master” of Mohammed (570-632) and was of Indian origin!

This “autogenous training” is termed Ilm el Miftach (which means “The science of the key”) and those who practice it are called Beni el Miftach (or “Sons of the Key”). Closely related watchwords are, among others, “key,” “rose,” and “stone.” The “Science of the Key” was also called the “Science of the balance” by the Arabs, or “Ilm el Nizan.” There is also “Ilm el Quimiya,” or “The Science of Chemistry.” It is a time-honored heritage and makes its appearance in Venice around 900 A.D.

Venice has been acknowledged from of old as a home of occult arts and place of origin of the “Venetians” in Germany, to whom we owe the saying, “Germany is blind, Nuremberg sees with one eye, but Venice sees with both eyes.” This city of the Doges was said to have a “School of Magic” in the Middle Ages and even Pater Johann Adalbert Hahn (1750-1825), the wizard of the Ore Mountains (the Erzgebirge) in Saxony, called his hocus-pocus “artem venetianam!”

The Magistery of Rosicrucians distincts two types of Alchemy: Parergon and Ergon. In a word, the former is Daoism's wei-dan and the latter nei-dan. It is said that, once reached certain age, the body needs to restored its “chu's.” (The chu is the weight equivalent to one twenty-fourth part of a tael: The Chinese ounce, equivalent to 1½ avoirdupois ounces, close to about 5 grams.) Esoterically, the chu could be related to the Parable of the Talents in the New Testament.

In Atwood's A Suggestive Inquiry into Hermetic Mystery, she speaks about Ergon as the summum bonum of the Hermetic Art, the conscious transference toward a more sublime state of being. Therefore, it is essential to recognize those insidious interferences, such as sudden illnesses and negative synchronicities that arise during the process, “not as derogatory or casting a doubt at all upon the ultimate truths of Divine Science, but as obstacles rather contrary to it, as evil is is to good everywhere adverse.” So, it seems we need the Parergon: The Philosopher's Stone or Panacea.

Returning to the subject of your inquiry, Venice beyond being Tolkien's Dead Marshes is the cradle of optics and glass makers. This topic is very important in Alchemy and operative Hermetic:

A distinguished Dutch Theosophist and reputed Rosicrucian had this to say:

The vitality of the physical body is to be found in the etheric body. If the latter can be strengthened, health and a long life are obtained. And absorbing condensed ether is the most convenient way of achieving both.

Our experts have failed to make it to this very day and therefore imagine that the thing is impossible. However, the impossibilities of today are the realities of tomorrow. When Roger Bacon wrote in his Opus Major the prophecy that one day horseless carriages would travel more quickly than any other vehicle, he was thought to be a sorcerer and the Inquisition threw him into prison. When Sir Isaac Newton repeated the same prophecy several hundred years later, Voltaire made merry at his expense; but history has brilliantly justified the two first-named! This encourages me to say something about the elixir of long life, impossible as it may seem.

The ether is set in motion by the rays of the sun. Whoever succeeds in diffracting and concentrating the sun’s rays by means of mirrors and lenses, can generate certain waves in the ether; and he who knows how to unite the energy of the elemental fire with that of the Ignis Essentialis (the essence of fire) will be able to observe the very slow but very sure formation of fluid drops which are without peer for a host of diseases! He will prove the truth of the old alchemical maxim: “Know then, the chief secret of the Art resides in fire!”

(...)
In the second volume of his Occult Philosophy, the “demonic knight” takes a retrospective glance at the optical wonder of antiquity: “And I know how to make reciprocal glasses, in which the Sun shining, all things which were illustrated by the rays thereof are apparently seen many miles off.” Agrippa states this even more emphatically later on: “... especially in glasses. And I knew how to make by them wonderful things, in which anyone might see whatsoever he pleased at a long distance.” A precursor of the reflecting telescope of 1671 invented by Sir Isaac Newton (1643-1727)!
(...)
The late captain (since 1512) of the Emperor Maximilian I (1493-1519), who was knighted for bravery on the field of battle against the Venetians, was anxious of course to employ this optical secret for military purposes: “Which art of declaring secrets is indeed very profitable for Towns, and Cities that are besieged, being a thing which Pythagoras (580-493 b.c.) long since did often do, and which is not unknown to some in these dayes, I will not except myself."

Enough quotes for now. Let see a video about glass making in Venice, Italy:

The Venetians are though normally linked to what is known as the 'Black Nobility' families that came to dominate Western Europe and especially banking and finance - for more see: Who are The Black Nobility?.

You may find interesting the books of Paul H. Koch:

• La Historia Oculta del Mundo: De la prehistoria al terrorismo internacional [The Hidden History of the World: From Prehistory to International Terrorism]
• Illuminati: Los secretos de la secta más temida por la iglesia católica [Illuminati: The secrets of the sect most feared by the Catholic Church]

(Catch-22: I have my both paper copies of the books but I coudn't verify if the second link is a complete and correct facsimile of the latter one.)

@Possibility of Being you might be interested: Koch is a huge fan (acolyte?) of John Baines and he never referrers to him as Dario Salas Sommer. From the book flap of the second book: “He was born in Hamburg in 1953. He holds a doctorate in Humanities, History, and Social Sciences, and is a renowned specialist in group dynamics and the organization of societies. He has worked as a consultant and private analyst in crisis management for various organizations in Germany, Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, and Canada, among other countries. He currently lives and works in Vienna.” Curiously, AFAIK, his books are only available in Spanish, being published by Planeta printing house.

My own understanding is that the city of Venice was originally established by wealthy families who fled from Rome upon the approach of Atilla the Hun and his hordes. They reasoned that Atilla would have no interest in what was marshy swamp land and this was therefore a good refuge place from which the city state of Venice would eventually emerge. The question is, how Roman were these wealthy families who sought refuge in Venice? By the time of Atilla the Hun, much of Rome was inhabited by people who were descended from freed slaves. A good proportion of these were Assyrians who were in turn descendants of the ancient Babylonians who were renowned historically for their commercial and banking acumen - see, for example, David Astle's ground breaking book The Babylonian Woe - The Babylonian Woe: Amazon.co.uk: Astle, David: 9781910220238: Books. Astle's book delves into the history of money, examining how monetary systems have shaped societies from ancient Babylon through various civilisations, including Egypt, Greece, and Rome. Astle argues that these systems have often been manipulated by powerful entities to control economic life and influence political authority.

In the film “El Robo del Siglo,” the mastermind of the robbery plan asked his analyst: “If you start thinking about the most important men in history, the most powerful families, you'll always find something dark, something sinister to hide. As if they understood that to have one foot outside the system, they first had to 'get their hands dirty.' [Bertolt] Brecht asked himself: 'What is worse, to rob a bank or to found one?'” and Honoré de Balzac may answer: “Behind every great fortune, there is always a crime.”

 

[MJF]

It's mysterious to me too. In the West, especially in recent times, we have developed a fairly good idea as to how "eyes wide shut" activities take place. Back in the 90s, the Dutroux scandal in Belgium exposed the entire upper echelon of those in govt, media, the judicial system, police, the royal family, the wider aristocracy, secret societies, intelligence agencies (domestic and foreign), bankers, EU apparatchiks, etc.

'Scandal exposure' has since seen the pattern repeated in countless Western countries. And that's the just the really extreme 'sacrificial' stuff. This 'pan-Western deep state', pretty much, no longer operates from the shadows, regularly intervening in national and international affairs to publicly assassinate people, start and fuel wars, move mountains to obstruct and publicly humiliate Trump and other leaders, manipulate weather (in order to maximize terror and damage, the opposite of Chinese policy on that score), 'send messages' to leaders via terror attacks, conduct brazen 'pandemics', rig elections, etc.

In China, ostensibly, the CCP is all-powerful, and, today, the Chairman, Xi Jinping, is a particularly powerful head of the CCP. Corrupt party officials and billionaires who stray into 'unwanted' politics are ostracized, jailed, and even executed in China.

How does a perverse death cult "above the government" work in China? We'd have to get an idea of the extent of secret societies in China, and which institutions (government and/or private) they're known, or suspected, to work through. I guess a starting point is the 'Triads' organized crime syndicate? However, I'd have imagined the CCP has long since infiltrated those, not the other way around.


They, or some clique within the CCP, could well be, but you're assuming that their 'complicity in the cover-up' implies participation and guilt. Is the Trump White House "neck deep involved" in the New Jersey 'UFO-drones', the L.A. 'wildfires', the assassination of Kirk, the mass shootings, the Epstein blackmail/pedo-ring scandal? No, but they're doing their damnedest to keep a lid on information about them from coming out.

Wouldn't Trump exposing the CIA death cult for all its crimes, past and present, make him and MAGA look good in the eyes of the population? But we know he doesn't because he can't. Similarly, maybe the problem is that the CCP isn't as powerful as we assumed it is?

This, for me, is the mystery. What secret societies?! What does a 'deep state' in China look like?

And, if it, or they, are "above the government," do they intermingle with, and maybe even 'interbreed with', the transnational elite we know sits atop the Western world? Or is it, more or less, 'just Chinese' and simply 'does sacrificial stuff' because that's what STS-loving elitist pervs are programmed to do the world over?

Also, does this network stray beyond 'following a sacrificial calendar' and meddle in Chinese government policy? Is this influence significant? What might that mean for the (outwardly-appearing) titanic clash of 'US as STS HQ forever' vs 'multipolarity'?

Maybe a starting point is to get an overview of Chinese netizens' most popular conspiracy theories? How do they 'see the unseen'?

It seems China certainly did have its own home-grown secret societies before the communists took over under Chairman Mao's leadership and cracked down on secret societies. One Chinese esoteric, secret brotherhood was the Tiandihui, which had its own initiation rituals like Freemasonry. It seems that after the communist victory, this society was left only with its criminal activities, which had originally co-existed with other activities, including overt political activities. It seems to have been very much a grass roots society or movement operating at village level at its inception. For more on this see: In Search of China’s Secret Societies. 6. The Once and Future Secret Society

The mention of criminal activities above makes me think though of the secret Chinese Triad organised crime groups or syndicates, which originated from Chinese secret societies formed in the 18th and 19th centuries such as the Tiandihui. Since the modern reform and opening up period, triads and other triad-like "black societies" have re-emerged in mainland China. In modern times, triads overseas have been reported to have connections to the Chinese government. This makes me wonder whether the triads may exert some influence behind the scenes in the way in which the Yakuza crime syndicates have supposedly done in Japan, where they are known to have been actively involved in the Japanese real estate market and banking sector alongside their more traditional criminal activities such as fraud, protection rackets and drug and people trafficking. It is rumoured that the Yakuza exerted a nefarious influence over post-war Japanese governments, particularly where financial policy planning was concerned. However, the Yakuza are at this time in steep decline with their numbers dwindling and their membership aging, so, even if they once had some influence over Japanese governments, this is much less likely to be the case today. One can legitimately ask though whether Chinese Triad syndicates, as the modern heirs of former Chinese secret societies, exercise any influence over the Chinese government's policies today in the same way that the Yakuza reputedly did in Japan?

Then there are shadowy (if perhaps mythical) groups such as the Chinese 'Green Dragon Society'. Quoting selectively from an article by Richard Spence Behold the Green Dragon: The Myth & Reality of an Asian Secret Society:
​

One such entity is the quasi-mythical Green Dragon Society (GDS), also known as the Order of the Green Dragon or simply the Green Dragon. It most often is mentioned as a Japanese secret society, but that is not necessarily the whole story. Other evidence, or at least allegation, argues that its true origins lay in China or Tibet and that its influence extended to the power centres of Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. Historical figures from the Emperor Hirohito, to Adolf Hitler to Rasputin have been tied to the Green Dragon, legitimately or not.

In his 1989 book The Unknown Hitler, Wulf Schwarzwaller claims that Karl Haushofer* was a master of various Eastern mystical traditions and “had familiarised himself with the Zen teachings of the Japanese Society of the Green Dragon.” More recent sources emphasise the Green Dragon’s intimate association with Zen, specifically its Soto branch, and claim that the “Green Dragon has had a tradition of secret propagation,” whatever that means.

*MJF: Professor Karl Haushofer was one of Hitler’s spiritual mentors being a leading German geo-political strategists and mystic and almost certainly a member of the German Thule Society who many think was the midwife to the Nazi Party and sponsor of Adolf Hitler. Hitler's connection to Haushofer stemmed from the fact that he had been Deputy Fuhrer's Rudolf Hess's university lecturer. Haushofer would seem to have had links with Rosicrucianism and may have been the guiding light behind Hess's ill fated peace mission to Britain during the Second World War (as discussed in the transcripts). Trevor Ravenscroft in his 1973 book The Spear of Destiny firmly connected the Green Dragon Society to Karl Haushofer claiming that he “gained… extraordinary gifts through membership of the Green Dragon Society of Japan in which the mastery of the Time Organism and the control of the life forces in the human body is the central aim of ascending degrees of initiation.”

The Buddhist connection may offer some important clues. Buddhism originated in India and spread to Tibet and China, and from there to Japan. Zen (Cha’an) doctrine also had its roots in China. One of the most revered Buddhist “saints” in Japan is Kukai, an 8th-9th century mystic who spent years studying in China. Interestingly, his main place of enlightenment was the Green Dragon Temple in Xian where he was trained in occult, tantric traditions originating in Tibet. Returning to Japan, Kukai incorporated these into his version of True Land (Shingon) Buddhism. The problem is that Shingon was and is quite distinct from Zen, so which, if either, is connected to the Green Dragon?

To further complicate the picture, there are numerous references to a Chinese Green Dragon Society. Most are linked to the martial arts. Green Dragon kung fu societies are active throughout the world, but most appear to be of fairly recent origin. Oddly enough, during the 1960s, the Chicago-based Green Dragon Society was locked in a bitter feud with the rival Black Dragon Society! One version of the Chinese Green Dragon’s history pegs it as a Taoist secret society formed in response to the 17th century persecutions launched by the Jesuit-influenced Emperor Kiang Hsi. According to this, the secret society emerged from the Pure Thought Mystical School of Tao, and along with an implacable hatred for the Manchu Dynasty, it remained dedicated to the “practice of Taoist Alchemy and Immortalist Techniques.” That sounds a bit like what Ravenscroft described. The Green Dragon also reputedly operated under numerous aliases and disguises. A secretive and even sinister Green Dragon Society also shows up in at least two martial arts films: ‘The Deadly Sword’ (1978) and ‘Seven Promises’ (1980). Finally, a Green Society or Green Gang was (and arguably still is) a major force in the Chinese underworld.

So, could there be two Green Dragon Society’s, one Japanese and Buddhist and the other Chinese and Taoist? This much seems clear: the inter-pollination of Chinese and Japanese Buddhism, and the sects and secret societies they spawned, is centuries old. Within that context, just about anything is possible.​

See: Behold the Green Dragon: The Myth & Reality of an Asian Secret Society

 

[Sindy-S.R]

It seems China certainly did have its own home-grown secret societies before the communists took over under Chairman Mao's leadership and cracked down on secret societies. One Chinese esoteric, secret brotherhood was the Tiandihui, which had its own initiation rituals like Freemasonry. It seems that after the communist victory, this society was left only with its criminal activities, which had originally co-existed with other activities, including overt political activities. It seems to have been very much a grass roots society or movement operating at village level at its inception. For more on this see: In Search of China’s Secret Societies. 6. The Once and Future Secret Society

The mention of criminal activities above makes me think though of the secret Chinese Triad organised crime groups or syndicates, which originated from Chinese secret societies formed in the 18th and 19th centuries such as the Tiandihui. Since the modern reform and opening up period, triads and other triad-like "black societies" have re-emerged in mainland China. In modern times, triads overseas have been reported to have connections to the Chinese government. This makes me wonder whether the triads may exert some influence behind the scenes in the way in which the Yakuza crime syndicates have supposedly done in Japan, where they are known to have been actively involved in the Japanese real estate market and banking sector alongside their more traditional criminal activities such as fraud, protection rackets and drug and people trafficking. It is rumoured that the Yakuza exerted a nefarious influence over post-war Japanese governments, particularly where financial policy planning was concerned. However, the Yakuza are at this time in steep decline with their numbers dwindling and their membership aging, so, even if they once had some influence over Japanese governments, this is much less likely to be the case today. One can legitimately ask though whether Chinese Triad syndicates, as the modern heirs of former Chinese secret societies, exercise any influence over the Chinese government's policies today in the same way that the Yakuza reputedly did in Japan?

Then there are shadowy (if perhaps mythical) groups such as the Chinese 'Green Dragon Society'. Quoting selectively from an article by Richard Spence Behold the Green Dragon: The Myth & Reality of an Asian Secret Society:
​

See: Behold the Green Dragon: The Myth & Reality of an Asian Secret Society

In reference to Tibet, this reminds me of what @Laura wrote and I read about 15 years ago.

Darkness Over Tibet – Part 1

Spring, 2002: As I write the Adventures With Cassiopaea Series and its supplements, readers are busy sending their feedback and the Quantum Future School continues to assess and analyze our observa…

cassiopaea.org

Darkness Over Tibet – Part 2

Now, back to Darkness Over Tibet: The reader who sent the book to me was most impressed by its description of the Hidden City of the “Secret Masters of the World.” I have to admit that …

cassiopaea.org

Darkness Over Tibet – Part 3

Illion’s descriptions of the society in the Underground City were fascinating. He said that sex was not allowed there except when permitted by the ruler, the object being that sexual energy w…

cassiopaea.org

And this factor must be considered...

Session 4 May 2002​

Q: (Laughter from all) (L) I want to ask about this book I was reading about this guy - T. Illion who traveled to Tibet and found this underground city and interacted with these strange beings, was this an actual trip this guy made in a traditional 3rd density sense?

A: It is a disguise for conveying truths of a spiritual nature as well as a depiction of 4th Density realities.

Q: (L) Did he physically travel to Tibet?

A: No.

Q: (B) Sounds like he gained some inner awareness and used a story to convey it. (L) Did he travel anywhere?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Did he travel somewhere else and get this information and then accurately portray it as being centered in Tibet?

A: Yes.

Q: (B) Were his travels in 3rd density?

A: Yes.

Q: (B) Is it important where he traveled?

A: Yes.

Q: (B) Well you know what the next question is (laughter). What would be his destination? Where did he travel?

A: Siberia.

Q: (B) Does it have anything to do with the spot in Siberia or Russian mountains that has the electromagnetic labs or whatever it was that they were discussing before?

A: Close.

 

[Niall]

It seems China certainly did have its own home-grown secret societies before the communists took over under Chairman Mao's leadership and cracked down on secret societies.

The bolded part is the problem. How does a network that's been "cracked down on" find itself "above the government" 75 years later?

In the West we have a large body of literature on the blending of organized crime, elite/establishment satanic interests and 'the intelligence community'.

Where is that for China?

Who are the illuminati families in China? The Cs won't tell us that, but they have suggested freemasonry is one 'feeder' organization. From there we can assume that they would be super-rich, in banking/trade, and thus 'hide among' such a milieu.

How does a Chinese 'illuminati' meet with or interact with one of his/her 'brethren' in the rest of the world? Are they members of the CCP? Do they have 'special access' such that the usual injunction in China against private citizens and corporate interests wielding influence over, or outside of, the CCP is 'by-passed'?

Q: Where do the Illuminati live?

A: All over the planet. But there are a very limited number of them.

Q: (Andromeda) Like how many? [laughter]

(L) Yeah, like how many?

(Andromeda) Rough estimate?

A: Less than 3300.

Q: (L) Why are there so few of them?

A: They keep their genes strictly to themselves. As a result, inbreeding has led to a decline in their numbers.

I suppose the simplest explanation is that the CCP is, itself, China's 'secret society'. The party is the second-largest political organization in the world (after India's BJP), and is extremely secretive about its membership and funding, so we can imagine that a subversive 'sect' of 'Marxist-Leninists' operates within it, one which Xi Jinping's anti-corruption purges cannot touch - and thus it can exercise power from 'above' him.

 

[MJF]

The bolded part is the problem. How does a network that's been "cracked down on" find itself "above the government" 75 years later?

In the West we have a large body of literature on the blending of organized crime, elite/establishment satanic interests and 'the intelligence community'.

Where is that for China?

Who are the illuminati families in China? The Cs won't tell us that, but they have suggested freemasonry is one 'feeder' organization. From there we can assume that they would be super-rich, in banking/trade, and thus 'hide among' such a milieu.

How does a Chinese 'illuminati' meet with or interact with one of his/her 'brethren' in the rest of the world? Are they members of the CCP? Do they have 'special access' such that the usual injunction in China against private citizens and corporate interests wielding influence over, or outside of, the CCP is 'by-passed'?


I suppose the simplest explanation is that the CCP is, itself, China's 'secret society'. The party is the second-largest political organization in the world (after India's BJP), and is extremely secretive about its membership and funding, so we can imagine that a subversive 'sect' of 'Marxist-Leninists' operates within it, one which Xi Jinping's anti-corruption purges cannot touch - and thus it can exercise power from 'above' him.

Please note that I was talking mainly about a specific Chinese secret society, the Tiandihui, that had been heavily involved in political activity in China during the 18th and 19th centuries and on into the first half of the 20th century. Secret societies by their very nature can remain underground and still operate even under authoritarian governments. Freemasonry had been very active in Russia until banned by the Czars but when Czar Nicholas II lifted the ban, they soon re-established and would be active in helping to bring his reign down (e.g., Kerensky was meant to have been a Freemason).

One way to remain in operation, even under a dictatorship, is to resort to crime, as it seems the Tiandihui did. Just like the Russian Mafia, the Chinese CCP government never seemed to be able wipe out the Triads who had been very active in Shanghai pre-war for example. Both in the old Soviet Union and communist China, the governments were for ever cracking down on crime and corruption but could never seem to eradicate it. It also possible that organisations like the Triads placed people in high positions both in the Chinese government and in local administrations where they could look after Triad interests and who is to say whether powerful people in government do not take their cut of the proceeds and remain silent just as they do in the West.

The Chinese Triads like the Japanese Yakuza operate as "brotherhoods" with their own arcane rituals and recognisable symbols, including special tattoos. Perhaps the key word here is "brotherhood" since the Illuminati seem to be the ultimate brotherhood. Indeed, the C's have even referred to them in this manner:
​

Q: (L) You have often stated that the Bible is corrupted, I would like to know who, exactly, corrupted the Bible and when and how they did this?

A: Illuminati brotherhood for a thousand earth years.

However, the C's have also spoke of the Brotherhood of the Snake (perhaps the oldest secret brotherhood of them all that was discussed at length in William Bramley's book The God's of Eden) that was Lizard inspired and apparently involved in the building of the Great Pyramid at Giza in 8,800 BC:
​

Q: (L) Who was the originator of the Brotherhood of the Serpent as described in the Bramley book?

A: Lizard Beings.

and:

​

Q: (L) Is there a connection between the number 33 and the Great Pyramid in Egypt?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And what is that connection? Is it that the builders of the pyramid participated in this secret society activity?

A: Yes. And what symbol did you see in "Matrix," for Serpents and Grays?

Q: (L) You are talking about the triangle with the Serpent's head in it?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Are we talking in terms of this 33 relating to a group of "aliens," or a group of humans with advanced knowledge and abilities?

A: Either/or.

Q: (L) Is this what has been referred to in the Bramley book [Gods of Eden] as the Brotherhood of the Serpent or Snake?

A: Yes.

This raises the question whether there is some link between the Brotherhood of the Serpent and the Illuminati brotherhood that the C's have told us is a genuine brotherhood united by close blood ties, as you pointed out in your post. The C's have suggested there is a link but not exactly what that link is:

Q: (L) The illuminati has been described as being behind or with the brotherhood which has been described as being in connection with the Lizard beings...

A: Close. But not that simple.

In an earlier post, I referred to the Venetian Black Nobility that ruled over the Republic of Venice and was a major player in Medieval European politics. I suggested that the families that formed this elite were descended from Assyrian/Babylonian families that had originally been brought to Rome as slaves but over time were freed and became very rich due to their skills in commerce and banking. However, the Assyrian/Babylonian empires were successors to the much older Mesopotamian or Sumerian city states whose inhabitants worshipped the Anunnaki gods, which may lead us back in a roundabout fashion to the Brotherhood of the Serpent. It is my conjecture that its is here that we will find the roots of the Illuminati brotherhood (perhaps with Anunnaki genetics) that would eventually spread all over the world but particularly to Rome and Venice were they would exert great influence through the practice of banking - the 'Babylonian Woe' - which still holds sway over humanity to this day. It would seem that the Venetian Black Nobility also have links to almost every Royal family in Europe, including the British monarchy through the Este family.​

You asked:

Who are the illuminati families in China? The Cs won't tell us that, but they have suggested freemasonry is one 'feeder' organization. From there we can assume that they would be super-rich, in banking/trade, and thus 'hide among' such a milieu.

Well one such family may be the Lee family:

China is home to some of the wealthiest individuals and families in the world, with a booming economy and growing number of millionaires and billionaires. One of the most prominent and influential families in China is the Lee family, who have amassed a vast fortune through their business ventures and investments. In this presentation, we will explore who the Lee family is, how they have become the richest family in China, and the impact they have had on the country’s economy and society.

The Lee family, led by patriarch Lee Ka-shing, is the richest family in China with a net worth of over $30 billion. Lee Ka-shing made his fortune in the real estate industry, starting with a small plastic manufacturing business in the 1950s and expanding into property development in Hong Kong and mainland China. Through strategic investments and acquisitions, the Lee family has built a diverse business empire that includes retail, telecommunications, infrastructure, and energy.

The Lee family’s wealth and influence extend beyond their business ventures, with charitable foundations and initiatives aimed at improving education, healthcare, and social welfare in China. The family is known for their philanthropy [MJF: Just like the Rothschilds] and commitment to giving back to the community, with donations to various causes and organizations.

Despite their immense wealth, the Lee family has faced criticism and scrutiny for their business practices and alleged ties to corrupt officials. However, they remain one of the most powerful and respected families in China, with a significant impact on the country’s economy and society.

Admittedly Lee is a very common name in Asia and particularly China. However, there are other rich Lee families outside of China and this includes the Lees of Singapore and South Korea:
​

The Lee Family (Singapore)​

Legacy of Leadership and Commerce

• Net Worth: Approximately $6.3 billion
• Source: The family’s wealth primarily comes from their stake in OCBC Bank, Singapore’s second-largest bank by assets.

The Lee family’s influence in Singapore extends beyond finance to governance and nation-building. Founding Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew laid the foundation for Singapore’s rise as a global financial hub.

Beyond politics, the family’s influence reaches into Temasek Holdings and GIC, two of the world’s largest sovereign wealth funds.

These institutions have helped shape global investment strategies while solidifying Singapore’s position as a financial powerhouse in Asia.

The Lee Family (South Korea)​

Tech Titans

• Net Worth: Approximately $26.6 billion
• Source: Samsung Group, a multinational conglomerate known for its electronics division.

South Korea’s Lee family, founders of Samsung, are a cornerstone of the nation’s economy.

Samsung’s dominance in electronics, semiconductors, and smartphones has made South Korea a global technology leader.

The family’s influence extends beyond business, shaping South Korea’s economic policies and technological advancements.

Like the Rothschilds in Europe, their stories are a mix of ambition, strategy, and legacy. Their influence extends beyond financial markets, touching on governance, culture, and innovation, making them central to Asia’s development on the global stage.

"Asia’s powerful families may operate in different industries and cultural contexts, but their impact mirrors the Rothschilds’ legacy in Europe — shaping the course of economic and social history for generations."

See: https://frederik.today/blog/the-dynasties-that-shaped-asia-asias-rothschild-equivalents

As I said above, Lee is a very common name in Asia, so there may no direct familial link between these families. But then again there could be, although it would take careful genealogical research to prove it. It is noticeable though that the first Europeans to reach out to China were the Venetians through the explorer Marco Polo (although the Romans may have forged links even earlier). Was this just coincidence?​

 

[Bernardo GA]

Who are the illuminati families in China? The Cs won't tell us that

How does a Chinese 'illuminati' meet with or interact with one of his/her 'brethren' in the rest of the world?

Perhaps there is no such thing as a Chinese Illuminati, just as there is no Argentine Illuminati, or French Illuminati, or Italian Illuminati, etc.
To think that there are Illuminati belonging to a particular nationality is, in my opinion, to forget that the Illuminati are above all that.

According to what the Cs have told us, not even those we can identify as “the elite,” or super-rich families of this world, are Illuminati.
They are not. In fact, they want to be and cannot.
They have enormous power to influence the governments of countries, largely dictating what the governments of countries ultimately end up doing, but all from the position of pawns of the Illuminati.
Of course, I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am.

I suppose the simplest explanation is that the CCP is, itself, China's 'secret society'. The party is the second-largest political organization in the world (after India's BJP), and is extremely secretive about its membership and funding, so we can imagine that a subversive 'sect' of 'Marxist-Leninists' operates within it, one which Xi Jinping's anti-corruption purges cannot touch - and thus it can exercise power from 'above' him.

That makes a lot of sense to me!
It may be just as you describe it.
And as I see it, this “secret society” (at the top of the Chinese Communist Party) is still a pawn of the Illuminati. I suppose so.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[Niall]

Perhaps there is no such thing as a Chinese Illuminati, just as there is no Argentine Illuminati, or French Illuminati, or Italian Illuminati, etc.
To think that there are Illuminati belonging to a particular nationality is, in my opinion, to forget that the Illuminati are above all that.

Yes, I agree, but I also assume that the powerful residents of such international networks in the country in question must look like the majority of people there. A Caucasian or Jewish 'string-puller' in China is going to stand out as a 'foreign devil'. His 'official role' must be convincing so that he can efficiently exercise his secret role.

 

[irjO]

As I said above, Lee is a very common name in Asia, so there may no direct familial link between these families. But then again there could be, although it would take careful genealogical research to prove it. It is noticeable though that the first Europeans to reach out to China were the Venetians through the explorer Marco Polo (although the Romans may have forged links even earlier). Was this just coincidence?

I would safely assume that real Illuminati’s are not known. At least not in the context of rich families like you mentioned (as example). Remember in one of the sessions it was mentioned that Rothschilds and Rockefeller for example, are not part of the Illuminati families, but serve their purpose.

Perhaps there are real public figures that are truly part of it, but attention to those public figures is very minimal, or you wouldn’t imagine that they might be part of that secret society level.

 

[MJF]

I would safely assume that real Illuminati’s are not known. At least not in the context of rich families like you mentioned (as example). Remember in one of the sessions it was mentioned that Rothschilds and Rockefeller for example, are not part of the Illuminati families, but serve their purpose.

Perhaps there are real public figures that are truly part of it, but attention to those public figures is very minimal, or you wouldn’t imagine that they might be part of that secret society level.

There are rich families in this world who keep the extent of their true wealth hidden, so you cannot rule out that within the Illuminati's ranks you may have some very rich people who keep a low profile and operate under the radar. As Niall said:
​

Who are the illuminati families in China? The Cs won't tell us that, but they have suggested freemasonry is one 'feeder' organization. From there we can assume that they would be super-rich, in banking/trade, and thus 'hide among' such a milieu.​

I mentioned the Lee family since I read years ago that they may be an Illuminati family. However, as you suggest, they may well be associated with the Illuminati in much the same way that the Rothschilds (whose founder was an undergrounder remember) and Rockefellers are, i.e., they are just useful pawns.

What strikes me though is that the C's have said that the Illuminati are linked by close genetic bonds:
​

A: They keep their genes strictly to themselves. As a result, inbreeding has led to a decline in their numbers.​

This would not necessarily rule out racial interbreeding but it would no doubt still have to be carefully controlled. This also suggests that we are looking at a special bloodline, which has sought to perpetuate itself and its influence over a very long period of time, and may denote a specific hybridisation that could have taken place in the Orion region judging from what was said in the session dated 6 June 1998:
​

Q: Should I just drop the whole bloodline thing?

A: Why?

Q: Well, because you are saying I would approach it in an improper manner, and I am getting roadblocks and frustration, and I certainly don't want that!

A: So, find the proper manner.

Q: I don't know what you mean by proper manner. What's the proper manner?

A: Gradual passage of phases.

Q: Is that the proper manner?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Which phases are passing gradually?

A: The answer to that is the clue you need most.

Q: (T) Phases of what?

A: It is the discovery that fosters the learning.

Q: So, I will discover these as I go along, I guess. One dot leads to the next dot. The only way to learn is to do it. (A) The original questions was whether we should follow this bloodline research... to what purpose?

A: Bloodlines reveal destiny. Why do you think they have been covered up so thoroughly?

[....]

Q: {Question lost because of tape malfunction.}

A: It was der Fuhrer who tried hardest. But not nearly enough.

Q: {Question lost because of tape malfunction.}

A: Find it in order to supercede the very power structure that created him.

Q: What power structure was this?

A: The "Third Reich."

Q: And who created the Third Reich?

A: Illuminati.

Q: So Hitler thought he could find something that would enable him to take complete control... [MJF: Perhaps the Grail as Heinrich Himmler had thousands of SS troops searching for it in southern France]

A: Sort of like a termite trying to vanquish "Orkin."

Q: {Question lost because of tape malfunction.}

A: Not tried, succeeded!

[…]

Q: What is it in this bloodline that makes it so important to cover it up?

A: It would lead directly to verity on a scale never before seen on earth while at 3rd density STS.

Q: And what would be the result of this verity?

A: The truth shall set you free... as you are imprisoned!

Q: {Question lost because of tape malfunction.}

A: There are many possibilities.

Q: {Question lost because of tape malfunction.}

A: The "main danger" is when on reveals too much before one has enough stature or notoriety, on web pages, for example. [Discussion of repercussions of 'Diana' material on web pages after Diana's death]

[…]

Q: Alright, I will. Where did these bloodlines originate?

A: Orion region.

Q: For how long were they maintained with any semblance of purity?

A: Indefinite.

Q: Are you saying that they are still maintaining them and manipulating them from other densities?

A: That is for you to discover.

Q: Are these bloodlines carrying a specific codon that is designed to activate at a certain period of time or in response to a certain frequency?

A: Possibly, but why should not that apply to everyone?

Q: Okay, so we have got ticking time bombs in our DNA, all of us!

A: Maybe.

Q: Alright, bizarro... (A) It is not necessarily time bombs, these are bombs which could be ignited by something else, like knowledge. (L) Is that the case, that knowledge could unlock these codons?

A: Yes.

Q: Certain activities such as meditating?

A: Yes. Or... channelling.

You will note that the C's tell us that the Illuminati created the Third Reich to carry out the mission of creating an Aryan master race to further the plans of 4D STS. This brings me back to the Thule Society with its connections to Professor Karl Haushofer and his potential links to the Japanese/Chinese/Tibetan Society of the Green Dragon. We also know that the Thule Society was involved in channelling, specifically an STS Orion group called the Antareans:
​

Q: (T) They went underground in Antarctica, they built a large underground base there, this is where the Germans, as in the Nazi Germans, claimed as Vineland, I think it is, where the older maps that show Antarctica, where the Germans, claimed as Vineland, I think it is, where the older maps that show Antarctica, where the German territory was claimed, it's in that section that's south of...

A: Yes, but they entered through their constructed base, as instructed, then were assimilated.

Q: (L) They were assimilated into the population already existent? Underground cities, underground bases?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, they didn't build them, they entered into them as instructed, and were assimilated into the population?

A: They did build a base.

Q: (T) Well, they'd have to keep expanding! Now, you said instructed... (L) Instructed by whom? (T) They were instructed to go there?

A: Those identifying themselves as "Antareans."

Q: And who are the Antareans?

A: STS Humanoid Orion linkage.

Q: (L) What is an STS Orion Linkage? (T) That's the... (L) We have a new concept here. (T) They would be... the... the...the... (V) Mutant Race! (T) Yes! Those that were part of the creation...

A: No.

Q: (L) What is an STS Humanoid Orion linkage?

[Part of tape seems to be missing here, questions in [brackets] are reconstruction]

A: An STS race from Orion that is humanoid.

Q: [something about who or how they got hooked up with the Nazis. Probably a question related to the group that "handled" Hitler.]

A: The Thule Society originated contact. *

Q: [something about them "waiting to take over the world".

A: Waiting?

[...,] Q: (L) What do these guys plan on doing?

A: This is where "The Master Race" is being developed.

Q: (L) And what is the timeframe they have planned for this activity?

A: Never mind.

*The C's subsequently confirmed in a later session that the Thule Society had in fact handled Hitler:
​

A: Now some history ... as you know, the CIA and NSA and other agencies are the children of Nazi Gestapo ... the SS, which was experiment influenced by the Antareans who were practicing for the eventual reintroduction of the Nephalim on to 3rd and or 4th density earth. And the contact with the “Antareans” was initiated by the Thule Society, which groomed its dupe subject, Adolph Hitler to be the all time mind programmed figurehead.

The C's also later confirmed that the "Antareans" were the name given by 4th density groups in contact with the Thule Society on third density Earth, before and during World War One.

That quizzical statement by the C's in response to Laura's question about the Orions "waiting to take over the world" would seem to bring us back to the Illuminati once again, since they would appear to be the group that has effectively taken over the surface world and been running the show up here for thousands of years at the behest of the Orions.

It is curious that the Antareans were also inadvertently mentioned in another session which discussed amongst other things the building of the ancient Lebanese city of Baalbek as part of a genetic effort to recreate the Nephilim:
​

Q: Who built the city of Baalbek?

A: Antereans and early Sumerians.. We meant Atlanteans. {Who are the Antereans?}

Q: What is the reason for the enormous proportions of this building?

A: Giants.

Q: Who were the giants?

A: Genetic effort to recreate Nephalim.

Q: Did the Atlanteans and Sumerians succeed in recreating the Nephilim?

A: No.

The C's told us that the project did not succeed. However, the C's did implicate the early Sumerians of Mesopotamia as being involved in this failed project. Could these early Sumerians have been members of the Brotherhood of the Snake and/or could the Illuminati brotherhood have been involved in this project just as their descendants would be in the creation of the Nazi Third Reich thousands of years later?

I have pointed out in a previous post that the rank of "Illuminati" was supposedly the highest degree that could be conferred on Egyptian initiates in rituals and ceremonies that took place in certain ancient Egyptian temples, which may have been conducted by the group of proto-Freemasons the C's have referred to as the Osirians. These ceremonies may still underpin modern Masonic practices today. Since Egypt was the most powerful nation in the ancient world in its time, it is very likely that the Illuminati were heavily involved in its running.

The C's have said that the Illuminati keep their genes strictly to themselves. Such inbreeding was also a practice observed by the Egyptian royal families and this could be seen, for example, with the Pharaohs of the 18th dynasty including Tutankhamun who married his sister Ankhesenamun, a union that seems to have produced two daughters both of whom died either in childbirth or soon after, their remains being buried in their father's tomb. However, we know from the C's (see below) that Tutankhamun, like his father Akhenaten, was part of a very special bloodline and that was the bloodline of the Perseids, named after Perseus the mythical founder of the Perseid dynasty who famously slew the Gorgon Medusa and cut off her head (a metaphor for a Grail quest perhaps? See more below on this):
​

Q: (L) So, he returned the ark to the so-called angel. And then, he gave something to someone else. Previously, when I asked about this, you said that what he gave to Esau was "trampled leaves of wrath, the blue apples incarnate," and remarked that I should inquire into the "core meaning."

A: And who was "Kore?"

Q: (L) Was this Abraham's daughter?

A: It was the last living member of the Perseid family.

Q: (L) Was it a male or female?

A: Female.

Q: (L) And how did Abraham come to be in possession of this female?

A: Search the text and you will see.

Q: (Galahad) If this person was the last member of the Perseid family, does that mean that Paris was a member of this family? [MJF: Paris = Abraham/Moses here]

A: No.

[...]

Q: (L) Going back to this person - the last living member of the Perseid family - who was handed over by Abraham in his Jacob persona to someone else, who was this person handed over to and why?

A: For protection from the fury of "Helen". [MJF: Helen = Nefertiti/Sarah here]

Q: (L) So, there is a reflection of that in the story of Hagar the Egyptian. Who was she handed over to?

A: The "Dragon Slayers".

We subsequently learned that this female was in fact the daughter of Nefertiti and Akhenaten:

Q: (L) Who was Hagar the Egyptian?
A: Princess of Egypt.
Q: (L) Was she Sarah's maid?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was she Sarah's daughter?
A: Right nurture to.
Q: (L) What do you mean? I don't understand.
A: Sara's daughter by Akhenaten.
Q: (L) Did Abraham have a child by Hagar also, his wife's daughter by another man?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well, that's pretty incestuous. Did Sarah actually get so jealous of her own daughter's child that she demanded that Abraham abandon her?
A: Close.

It is my view that Hagar was in fact Princess Meritaten, the eldest daughter of Akhenaten and Nefertiti, whose body like that of her mother has never been found. If this is correct, then she was the mother of the biblical son of Abraham called Ishmael. However, Meritaten like her mother Nefertiti and her brother Tutankhamen shared in common the feature of an elongated head (a bust of her demonstrating this fact is preserved in the Berlin Museum):​

Session 18 March 2000:

Q: I do want to ask about this head of Tutankhamen: why was his head so extremely elongated, as well as the heads of the other members of that family?

A: Trace gene.

Q: Where did the trace gene come from?

A: Last "call."

Q: The last visit of the Nephilim?

A: Close enough.

Q: Did the gene come through Ankhenamen [Akhenaten] or Nefertiti?

A: One sound like nephilim, or your "Nefilim."

Q: So, Nefertiti. Where did Nefertiti come from? She is a BIG mystery. I had been formulating the idea that she was Sarai, the wife of Abraham, and the whole story about the pharaoh of Egypt stealing Abraham's wife and this caused an "affliction" was really the story of the marriage of Nefertiti to Akhenaten and explained his peculiar physical characteristics. Supposedly Abraham's wife was very beautiful, and the name "Nefertiti" is supposed to mean "A Beautiful Woman Has Come," and that sort of fits. Nobody seems to know where she came from... or who she was. Then, she disappeared from history; nobody has ever found her body or the body of Akhenaten. It's just such a big mystery. Where did she come from?

A: We will let you search some more.

The C's elsewhere confirmed that Nefertiti, like Abraham, was both a Hittite and a Levite. However, unlike Nefertiti, Meritaten/Hagar also carried the Perseid genetics as well as her mother's Nephilim genetics, which were then inherited by her son, Ishmael. Given what the C's subsequently said about these genetics, they would seem to have been very special indeed, and have been carried by some illustrious people, including Julius Caesar:​

Session dated 13 January 2024:

Q: (The Mexicans) What was so special about the last member of the Perseid family? [MJF: Kore/Princess Meritaten]

A: Carried the genes of power in undiluted form.

Q: (The Mexicans) Did it live after all and have descendants?

A: Yes.

Q: (The Mexicans) Do we know some of them?

A: Caesar.

You will note that the C's said that Hagar/Princess Meritaten/Kore carried the "genes of power in undiluted form". Could it be that the Perseids were an Illuminati family and that the Illuminati carry these special genes of power, which is why they feel it is their genetic right to rule over mankind? Afterall, her father Akhenaten was the most powerful man in the world in his age and worshipped as a god.

I have argued elsewhere that Princess Meritaten was the Princess Scota or Scotia of Scottish and Irish legend and fame. If so, she is supposed to have travelled to Scotland, finishing her days in Ireland according to Irish folklore where she lies buried in an unknown grave. I have also argued that the "Dragon Slayers" the C's referred to were in fact the Tuatha de Danann red-haired giants of Irish mythology, who may have been a remnant of the Anunnaki giants of Mesopotamia and the giants mentioned in the biblical stories concerning the Canaanites. They may even have been the biblical Tribe of Dan who suddenly disappeared from the Bible narrative with no indication of what happened to them.

I mention all of this because in the same session dated 13 January 2024, there is a reference to the fall of Troy in England in the year
​

(The Mexicans) Was Troy the dominating force in the region before its fall?

A: Yes.

Q: (The Mexicans) Did it get destroyed during the events of 1627/8 BC?

A: No. 1100 BC.

Q: (L) Okay, so, but that was the city of Troy, not necessarily the story of the Trojan War, right?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) The story of the Trojan War was probably a combination of the cataclysmic events, as well as maybe the destruction of the actual city of Troy. Is that it?

A: Yes.

Princess Meritaten may also be the figure of Helle in Greek mythology who escaped from her step mother Ino's murderous plans by flying away with her twin brother Phrixus on a golden ram from which the Golden Fleece would subsequently be derived that became the object of a quest for Jason and his Argonauts (N.B. yet another Grail quest). In the myth, she was supposed to have fallen off the ram and landed in the Hellespont, which was named after her:
​

Q: (Galahad) Does it have something to do with the individuals who flew away on the Ram?

A: Mmmmm .... And did she really drown?

Q: (Galahad) Is it a significant fact that this girl's name was similar to Helen of Troy?

A: Could be a clue. All those stories of escape from confinement and flying and cataclysm...? Who was imprisoned? Why? Good night.

If Princess Meritaten and her son did settle in the British Isles**, this would have been several hundred years before the destruction of Troy in 1100 BC in what is now Cambridge, England. The conventional dating for Princess Meritaten's era is the mid-15th century BC, i.e., 1450 BC, although the C's have suggested that it was in fact earlier in 1650 BC. Could it be that members of her group, refugees fleeing from an Egypt beset by plague and destruction after the violent eruption of the volcanic island of Thera, may have settled in Britain and, given their advanced knowledge and skills, built a Bronze Age civilisation that eventually became the kingdom of Troy?

**It should be noted here that the well preserved remains of five ancient Egyptian boats, which were carbon dated to Meritaten's era, were found buried in the banks of the Humber Estuary in Yorkshire, into which the river Trent flows, just before the outbreak of the Second world War. They are now kept in the Museum of Hull. This reference to the river Trent makes me think of the C's statement below:
​

Q: Okay. I have several books on the subject. I will start tomorrow. Now, when the Templars were arrested, they were accused of worshipping a head, or skull, and also the god Baphomet. Were these spurious accusations designed to defame them?

A: Skull was of pure crystal

Q: What is the definition of the god 'Baphomet,' if they did, indeed, worship such?

A: The holder of the Trent.

Q: What is THAT?

A: Seek.

Could it be that Hagar/Princess Meritaten brought the pure crystal skull Baphomet with her from Egypt, a skull that had been possessed by her father Akhenaten before it was stolen by her mother Nefertiti (in the guise of the biblical Rachel), an artefact that was in fact the Grail or Mother Stone that became in British Celtic legend the talking Head of Bran that was supposedly buried on the hill that is now known as Tower Hill in London? If so, was Meritaten a member of the 'Grail faction' and did ownership of the Grail lead to a dispute with her mother Nefertiti that resulted in her becoming an outcast just like Hagar in the Bible?

It is also curious to note that in the classical tale of the destruction of Troy, some of the Trojan royal family escaped the carnage, including Aeneas and his son Ascanius who, after being commanded by the gods to flee, gathered a group, collectively known as the Aeneads, who then travelled to Italy and became the progenitors of the Romans. The Romans truly believed that they were the descendants of the Trojans. Indeed, the Julian family of Rome, most notably Julius Cæsar and Augustus, claimed to trace their lineage to Ascanius and Aeneas. This idea would no doubt seem far fetched to modern day historians but now we know from the C's that Caesar was a descendant of Kore/Hagar/Princess Meritaten, who may well have settled in the British Isles with her son by Abraham to found the Trojan civilisation, is Caesar's claim really so far fetched? If Meritaten as a Perseid was part of an Illuminati bloodline family, were the Julian family of Rome as her descendants also Illuminati too?​

 

[palestine]

One way to remain in operation, even under a dictatorship, is to resort to crime

I noticed the "crime. mob, criminal" concept popping up; I see this component as follows: each society has a small fringe of "irreducible" individuals. Seems the US opted for the funneling of those via the CIA for example, but the main process has been that they establish a criminal network ("the mob"). If you look at the mob, Al Capone and others, it's a structure that remains stable, They engage in a set of activities but it seems "limited" and they don't really go outside of "a scope" of some sort. Like a perennial feature of societies, until progress in mental health will manage to solve the psychopathy problems - "those people have to be managed" in a way or another - and seems the best way has been than to funnel those via a "mob"-type network.

Somehow, it's in relation with the government.

So - as soon as the mob starts to operate outside of its usual range of activities, this would hint at the Illuminatis (or else) infiltrating it and using it. Mobsters themselves may be thinking "hmm the boss is giving odd orders, we don't usually do those things". And in order for this to happen, the Illuminatis or else - would have, first, to go through the government,

I assume that when Mao became the boss, his formula reset the whole society's fabric, and that the crime popped up back, organically. Could be the basic fringe of irreducible people who can't get along with society's normal rules. Somehow, at this stage, no "Illuminati cabal" yet. First stage, just a basic pressure-like settling process. And I suppose that the cabal was perhaps around, waiting to get their hands back on the crime fringe, perhaps "as usual". No clue!

One way to remain in operation, even under a dictatorship, is to resort to crime, as it seems the Tiandihui did. Just like the Russian Mafia, the Chinese CCP government never seemed to be able wipe out the Triads

I suppose that crime environment furnishes them with an energetic frequency allowing them to "be", so that's why they would infiltrate the mob strata.

Perhaps there is no such thing as a Chinese Illuminati, just as there is no Argentine Illuminati, or French Illuminati, or Italian Illuminati, etc.
To think that there are Illuminati belonging to a particular nationality is, in my opinion, to forget that the Illuminati are above all that.

That's an interesting observation: how do those people consider "the whole" / "their whole"? Do they think in terms of "countries"?

But here, @Niall seems to be willing to go another road, so I would follow him blindly (he's a knowledgeable admin, he has the nose!)
I am having difficulties to understand what constitutes the discrepancy in regard of what you say, I am trying to re-read it. He seems to explain that it's wrong to under-consider the nationality of the Illuminatis - or their feeling of national belonging. I just would like to progress according to Niall's understanding. He may be hinting at the necessity to implement themselves in the country. Like a limitation, perhaps? Some Achille's heel.

 

[palestine]

@MJF I don't know - $30 billion seems not much for the worth of a family (Lee family). Am I wrong?

 

[palestine]

I believe that we stare at a whole encompassing 3D and 4D. I stare at a "web", and my 3D natural world view tells me "there is a bridge in -between".

Basic study appears to me in terms of "what's 3D", "what's 4D", what's both, how & why - and laying down a stable basic model.

Seems this is a whole chunk of C's teachings, so I wouldn't rush, because it seems that all those ideas participate from a framework of understanding "who we are" in regard of "what is".

STS is not all there is, and that we must focus on our own "progression".

The key for understanding this, may be unlocked only within a STO framework?

I remember that Joe said that "the matrix was a hyperdimensional control system designed to make you reach & confirm whatever conclusion you come up with". I am wondering how absolute this is. I wouldn't underestimate 4D principles. If this is a sort of absolute, we would need to find out an approach susceptible of solving this hum "obstacle".

... Trying to untangle the STS structure in 3D terms. I would rely on senior members for what would prove fruitful in there.

It matters - and it potentially matters in order to "STO progress" (who we are) and not "destruction of STS":

Q: Should I just drop the whole bloodline thing?

A: Why?

Q: Well, because you are saying I would approach it in an improper manner, and I am getting roadblocks and frustration, and I certainly don't want that!

A: So, find the proper manner.

A: It would lead directly to verity on a scale never before seen on earth while at 3rd density STS.

Some traps

A: The "main danger" is when on reveals too much before one has enough stature or notoriety, on web pages, for example. [Discussion of repercussions of 'Diana' material on web pages after Diana's death]

No "whistleblowing" - rather, studying those things, because those are the principles in motion in the Universe. SO, according to our possibilities?

If one looses a dear relative because of those "sectarian activities", the matter can change, I suppose (?).