Hi, out of the blue, the only goal I can think of is to learn... Why not try approaching sex with that purpose in mind? :-)
Oh cool! I think that works for me. Thank you!

I think that deep inside it is the manifestation of our choice regarding STO/STS behavior that really is imporatant here
Im sorry but I dont understand what you meant with the statement above? Can you please help me understand what you meant?
Can you please help me understand what you meant?
Hi, well I'm sorry too, I'll try to clarify what I had in mind :-): regarding false beliefs/teachings and the way one could change/suppress them, by "deep inside" I meant on a soul level ( assuming that we have one :-)), and to operate such changes, one needs to acknowledge the real condition of our human incarnation as 3D beings, the following chapter is worth reading on this subject.
The Wave Chapter 28: Technicians of Ecstasy: The Shamanic Initiation Of The Knighted Ones Part 1


The Living Force
Also, I want to be vulnerable here and ask you about incubus. I have experienced this twice. The first time was I thought I was just dreaming and the second time was I was woken up by the feeling that something/someone is down there. How can I protect myself from this? and what could be a reason why I have opened myself to it?
Here is an article on Sott, and a post on this THREAD that may help you understand this subject better.

Interrelated, yet as an aside, came across the following while looking for something else in a Manly Hall book. Here, he is discussing what Paracelsus thought of on the subject of the incubus and succubus (Vampire, too). In respect to attachments, it is interesting and another point to make concerning mental and physical hygien.

Perhaps, in his discussing of "the spirit of truth" and a "healthy person" i.e. cleaning the machine, the attractions can happen with the belief in lies and maintaining a toxic physicality. Perhaps, too, in regards to the psychopathic individual, they have a permanent incubus and succubus (male/female respectively) attachment - they are mated, as in parasitically aligned.

The word Larvae in Etymology can be referenced in a number of ways, here is one on way:
Hi, well I'm sorry too, I'll try to clarify what I had in mind :-): regarding false beliefs/teachings and the way one could change/suppress them, by "deep inside" I meant on a soul level ( assuming that we have one :-)), and to operate such changes, one needs to acknowledge the real condition of our human incarnation as 3D beings, the following chapter is worth reading on this subject.
The Wave Chapter 28: Technicians of Ecstasy: The Shamanic Initiation Of The Knighted Ones Part 1
Okay. Three more chapters before 28th. Hmmm. I'm trying to remember what was happening in my life when I had those. Although it had never occurred to me again, I just want to be cautious.

Thank you @zak . Im not a drinker or have any vice so I think that makes sense with my deeply rooted false beliefs.


Jedi Council Member
I want to ask about sex, how do you guys managing with that desire ?
I understand that we are different genetically (males and females) but it is a question for both, males and females.
How much do you masturbate, how often?
I would like to hear your thoughts, if you want to.
Me personally, there were periods of time that I did that several times a day, and were periods when i did it once in 3-4 weeks.

I dont know what does happend with me, i can barely masturbate right now, at the same time I have that desire, usually morning time. Males have to know that. It is started hard for me to imagine some girl without her permission, it happend not so long ago.
I don't know is that much different if you imagine and if you have physical contact.

The thing I noticed that when my mind is in spiritual stuff, i called that, like reading sessions, listening lectures, etc, this flow of energy switching and I dont need that much sex.

The thing is that I and other males I know, they used to imagine some girl/girls or watch porn. But smth switched in me.

From the young age I was tought different, Western culture promotes to have free sex, fulfill your desire and have fun; Sex, drugs and rock&roll, sort of that. But there are no free lunch, you know.

It feels wrong. It is another soul being (or may be/would be/will become, doesn't matter) but you can harm he/she in the end and use it like a device.

When I went to sexologist, few years ago, she said that I have to have sex minimum 3-4 times a week.
In Yoga, tantric tradition it is said that better no more that 4 times a month, the guy i listen to said that.
At the same time, they say that yo dont have to block your desires, you have to be in a middle, because you would be able to overcome them.

How do you do, what are your thoughts about that?


Padawan Learner
Ok, let me share some of the redneck wisdom. Originally the spiel was "earthy" and "colorful", so what you read now has been toned down. Feel free to substitute words :-)

Straight to the chase 1.
Pursuing sex is a wrong idea on multiple levels. Physical, psychological, emotional, spiritual, you name it.
Despite the fact we belong to the human species, we are very individual. We didn`t come here to learn exactly the same lessons Pace varies too. Heck we are not even on the same starting line. So when someone attempts to put an industry standard on a human being, think of what their agenda behind is. Usually nothing beneficial to you.

Straight to chase 2.
Frequency of an intercourse should be the last thing that matters. Either is feels right, and then by all means have at it. Or it doesn`t, despite or even inspite the attraction, walk away. Question: who does it serve? Yourself? If you are after self-gratification then certainly...

Straight to the chase 3.
What should be pursued is love. Yes, LOVE. And let me be clear here, passion or sex are not love. Not even close and neither a substitute. Masturbation can be considered self-gratification, but not self-love. It is like comparing sunrise witnessed by a person with senses wide open (colors, overall atmosphere, changes in perception, impact on the soul etc.) and a sense-impaired person (maybe a little bit of heat).

Straight to the chase 4.
Let me close with a simple question.
Do you want to transform your sexual energy into something beneficial to you? Or do you prefer to be domesticated and harvested, over and over and over again?


FOTCM Member
I think it's honesty, first and foremost.

Sex is pleasant, it's ingrained in all living creatures, human beings though... we tend to make it a sport, we have the ability to break down the act into parts that reduces it to its components. But it means different things for different people.

And so, I personally began with those two questions, first... it is pleasant and not evil, but it can if allowed to roam freely in my mind and my actions, turn me into someone who can be evil, but I will not succeed by merely ignoring it. Second, I had to determine what it meant for me personally.

What meaning did I attach to the act? it was more than physiological satisfaction, I attach emotional meaning to the act. And it wasn't always positive emotions, as it turns out. Sex can also be an outlet for fears, insecurities, control, violence and so much more.

Having those two in mind, I decided to find a way to make its presence in my life work with my overall goals. In practical terms, I found a way to find release in a way that wasn't overtly indulgent, but not completely repressive either. It is a drive comparable to hunger, and starving can lead one to make poorer decisions when seeking food, but then there's also the idea of fasting. Anyone who's gone shopping while hungry can attest to this statement.

In that sense, I treated it somewhat as food.. sort of. What I mean is, to satiate that drive, with as clean an impression as I can, instead of it being associated with fears, with insecurities or misery.. which I think sex can be associated with, one only needs to look at the varied amount of fetishes out there to notice, I seek to associate it with intimacy, vulnerability, beauty, creativity and things as such.

In this sense, porn, while extremely stimulating, can be a source of suffering and probably one of the worst types of impressions one can use to deal with the sexual drive, in my opinion, like fast food if you will. Because, in my opinion, it stimulates the brain and your mind in the way a lie would, empty and void of any real "nutritional" value.. empty calories, and probably toxic.

And find one's rhythm, everyone has a different rhythm, a different metabolism so to speak, and finding the healthy balance is crucial, restricting food for two individuals with different metabolic needs, will have different results and probably harm one of them. So that personal knowledge and self awareness is key in my opinion.

So, long story short, it's a very personal quest for balance and pragmatism in order to remain functional, sane and in harmony with oneself. Ant there's plenty to discover I believe, specially if one lives alone and doesn't have someone to explore that dimension with, which would probably be optimal, the next best thing is self awareness in my opinion.

In that sense, that self awareness could lead one to understand how certain practices surrounding the sexual drive can become harmful, and with sex.. as with everything really, that maxing of "First do no harm" really applies, and that not only applies to others, but also to oneself I think.

I hope the above made sense.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In this sense, porn, while extremely stimulating, can be a source of suffering and probably one of the worst types of impressions one can use to deal with the sexual drive, in my opinion, like fast food if you will. Because, in my opinion, it stimulates the brain and your mind in the way a lie would, empty and void of any real "nutritional" value.. empty calories, and probably toxic.

Incredible as it may seem, I wrote something similar on my FB wall yesterday.

And just now thinking about food there is a strange relationship between food, love, feelings.

Human warmth is as necessary as food, but each dish has a value or quality comparable to that warmth. Sex, falling in love is like a slice of pizza. It is tasty, it fills you up in the moment and you go to bed satisfied, but the next day you are hungry and the carbohydrates provide little nutrients. Hopefully the cheese or the onion of a fugazza.
Love, true love is like Asado. It happens every Sunday and it is generous. Light the fire, prepare the meat and stay there for as many hours as it takes, a ritual that connects the deepest part of man with the zen contemplative state of seeing the flames of the brazier.

The ritual continues and friends and family arrive. They are all there and each one brings his part. And while the flames dance, the beer, the wine or the fernet better than any ayahuasca nucleates the shamans of the meat protein and the forum begins. The conversation begins with the purest mechanicity of the world and ends in the music of the spheres where even those archangels communicate their thoughts.
And when the event ends, no one remains poor in soul. Because nutrition lasts for a week, and not just a few hours of pizza...

God, give us the Asado every Sunday. Amen.

Captura de pantalla 2022-11-06 003259.jpg


Jedi Council Member
Session 1994-11-6
Q: (L) Well, sexual energy “redirected”; does this mean women will
stop having sex with men?
A: Not exactly.
Q: (L) Am I close?
A: Yes. Men will lose most of their drive in favor of more spiritual
pursuits. It is the sex drive that is at the root of most of the historical
aggression and lack of feeling on the part of the male.

Q: (L) Can we tell others?
A: Might cause turmoil but up to you.
Q: (L) I noticed that at about the same time I began meditating heavily
that my drive plummeted. Is this because of the meditation?
A: Yes. Females will lose some drive too. But how will humans react
to this, that is the question. Will they be prepared?
Q: (L) Does this mean that everybody is going to lose interest in sex?
A: Will have much less and must learn to relate to each other more
Q: (L) Is this because one of the major drives of the human being is
for contact and, up to now, this has been manifested through sexual
union and without the sexual urge they will be forced to find other
ways to relate?

A: One would hope so. You are all moving toward 4th level which
is less physical thus you must learn this existence in order to pass
through into the 4th level.
One of the many quotes from the C´s on sexual energy, that might be helpful to understand the emptiness the sex drive leaves behind. And that our next step in learning is to relate to each other in a more nurturing, spiritual way.

On how:
session 2014-07-26
A: There is much such a team can accomplish if you really get dedicated and support one another during the swings that manifest during the process of awakening. For what is "awakening"? It is the opening of the emotional center and merging with true conscience.


FOTCM Member
Posts moved.

There are a few other threads that may also be helpful/relevant, such as:



Padawan Learner
Gurdjieff on the Abuse and Use of Sex

Here is Gurdjieff's take on sex, from PD Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous.
[Bold and underlining are from me]

"ex plays a tremendous role in maintaining the mechanicalness of life. Everything that people do is connected with 'sex' : politics, religion, art, the theater, music, is all 'sex.' Do you think people go to the theater or to church to pray or to see some new play? That is only for the sake of appearances. The principal thing, in the theater as well as in church, is that there will be a lot of women or a lot of men. This is the center of gravity of all gatherings. What do you think brings people to cafés, to restaurants, to various fetes? One thing only. Sex: it is the principal motive force of all mechanicalness. All sleep, all hypnosis, depends upon it.

"You must try to understand what I mean. Mechanicalness is especially dangerous when people try to explain it by something else and not by what it really is. When sex is clearly conscious of itself and does not cover itself up by anything else it is not the mechanicalness about which I am speaking. On the contrary sex which exists by itself and is not dependent on anything else is already a great achievement. But the evil lies in this constant self-deception!"

Cosmic forces have created this state of affairs and cosmic forces control this state of affairs. And you ask: Can it be left like that or should it be changed! God himself could change nothing. Do you remember what was said about the forty-eight laws? They cannot be changed, but liberation from a considerable portion of them is possible, that is to say, there is a possibility of changing the state of affairs for oneself, it is possible to escape from the general law. You should understand that in this case as well as in all others the general law cannot be changed. But one can change one's own position in relation to this law; one can escape from the general law. The more so since in this law about which I speak, that is, in the power of sex over people, are included many different possibilities. It includes the chief form of slavery and it is also the chief possibility of liberation. This is what you must understand.

" 'New birth,' of which we have spoken before, depends as much upon sex energy as do physical birth and the propagation of species. …

"Is complete sexual abstinence necessary for transmutation and is sexual abstinence, in general, useful for work on oneself?" we asked him.

"Here there is not one but a number of questions," said G. "In the first place sexual abstinence is necessary for transmutation only in certain cases, that is, for certain types of people. For others it is not at all necessary. And with yet others it comes by itself when transmutation begins.

"I will explain this more clearly. For certain types a long and complete sexual abstinence is necessary for transmutation to begin; this means in other words that without a long and complete sexual abstinence transmutation will not begin. But once it has begun abstinence is no longer necessary. In other cases, that is, with other types, transmutation can begin in a normal sexual life - and on the contrary, can begin sooner and proceed better with a very great outward expenditure of sex energy. In the third case the beginning of transmutation does not require abstinence, but, having begun, transmutation takes the whole of sexual energy and puts an end to normal sexual life or the outward expenditure of sex energy.

"Then the other question - 'Is sexual abstinence useful for the work or not?'

"It is useful if there is abstinence in all centers. If there is abstinence in one center and full liberty of imagination in the others, then there could be nothing worse. And still more, abstinence can be useful if a man knows what to do with the energy which he saves in this way. If he does not know what to do with it, nothing whatever can be gained by abstinence."

"Speaking in general, what is the most correct form of life in this connection from the point of view of the work?"

"It is impossible to say. I repeat that while a man does not know, it is better for him not to attempt anything. Until he has new and exact knowledge it will be quite enough if his life is guided by the usual rules and principles. If a man begins to theorize and invent in this sphere, it will lead to nothing except psychopathy.

"But it must again be remembered that only a person who is completely normal as regards sex has any chance in the work. Any kind of 'originality,' strange tastes, strange desires, or, on the other hand, fears, constantly working 'buffers,' must be destroyed from the very beginning. Modem education and modem life create an enormous number of sexual psychopaths. They have no chance at all in the work.

"Speaking in general, there are only two correct ways of expending sexual energy: normal sexual life and transmutation. All inventions in this sphere are very dangerous.

"People have tried abstinence from times beyond memory. Sometimes, very rarely, it has led to something but in most cases what is called abstinence is simply exchanging normal sensations for abnormal, because the abnormal are more easily hidden.

He then goes on (in the link) to talk about what abusing of sex really means, with some explanations of the centers' functions.

Plus this post from Kay Kim, from Gurdjieff's Paris apartment 1938
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