Should we burn the Bible?

djewlew

The Force is Strong With This One
I say YES, symbolically, once a year, in front of the main entrance to the United Nations' building, in memory of those MILLIONS slaughtered in the name of this TERRIBLE WEAPON of destruction, and next have its ashes removed from the planet [symbolically].
Would the SYMBOLICAL burning of the that TERRIBLE WEAPON of intellectual shrinking cause any upheaval in the world?
 
djewlew said:
I say YES, symbolically, once a year, in front of the main entrance to the United Nations' building, in memory of those MILLIONS slaughtered in the name of this TERRIBLE WEAPON of destruction, and next have its ashes removed from the planet [symbolically].
Would the SYMBOLICAL burning of the that TERRIBLE WEAPON of intellectual shrinking cause any upheaval in the world?
It would most likely get you into jail for "disturbing the peace", or whatever they call it. And that would be it. Do you really think it would make any difference whatsoever!?
 
I would say that it would more likely incite the anger of many of multitudes of people who identify with the book.

I can think of certain forces that might consider such a result quite palatable.
 
It should also be noted that it was the Nazi's that really got people into book burning. Even if it is symbolic (And it doesn't sound just symbolic. Especially if your standing on the steps of the UN!) the concept of burning books in such a way is too close to the mass promoted hysteria of a totalitarian regime that its something I wouldn't even do in my own head!!!!

Do you not know your history??

Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Having said all that, where you should put your focus is on pathology. The pathological deviants in charge at the time who promoted/engineered and generally got off on all the deaths 'in the name of the bible'. Or the 'war on terror'. Or the 'crusades'. Or any other war there has ever been in 'the name of something'. In all the twisting they cause in society and ourselves...the starvation and suffering of millions (if not billions)...that is still on going....the bombing of women and children and hospitals.
ALL in the name of something, and ALWAYS to hide the pathology. The ones who are pulling humanities collective string and causing its collective suffering.....

That is where you should put the blame and your focus...not in a book...but the psychopaths that are STILL IN CHARGE of us all....who where running the show from the time of the bible and from probably well before. To not do so is to be fooled by them....and be trapped by them. And thus they win.
 
The Bible is a weapon. If you are for nuclear disarmament to avoid massive destruction, you should also be for Bible burning, before the world gets another millennium of religion and superstition. Symbolically we would do it [start] slowly. OK, let us not do it at the UN's front door; let us use the back door, then.
 
You could (only if you want) learn about how the world works before proposing solutions. If you do not understand how works a machine, you cannot repair it :)
 
djewlew said:
The Bible is a weapon. If you are for nuclear disarmament to avoid massive destruction, you should also be for Bible burning, before the world gets another millennium of religion and superstition. Symbolically we would do it [start] slowly. OK, let us not do it at the UN's front door; let us use the back door, then.

Redfox(and many other) have put a pearl before You and yet You understand zilch...

Go back to study, You can come back when You are sincere...
 
What is of interest here is fact. Whenever a proposal or assertion is made it should be verified. Merely assuming something to be true can lead to manipulation, whether one is aware of it or not.

These are the assertions of your proposal for action, none for which you offer verification:

The Bible is a weapon.

If you are for nuclear disarmament to avoid massive destruction, you should also be for Bible burning

before the world gets another millennium of religion and superstition

Symbolically we would do it [start] slowly. OK, let us not do it at the UN's front door; let us use the back door, then.

Why not give it a try? See what can be learned from this process before posting. It can be fun.
 
OK, let me rephrase my argument to help you understand. The Bible was the instrument to start KILLINGS in the name of its god. Therefore, the Bible is a criminal book! No, you would say, not the Bible, but the human bigots who used it to kill innocents. So what?! Aren't the Trent Anathemas still in force in the religious books waiting for a better time to reactivate them? Do you expect a world WITHOUT the pope and his Council of Trent?!... Maybe you think the pope represents peace... Oh, how sad.
 
Take a breath djewlew, maybe ease off on posting as reaction.

It may be that you merely underestimate the collective intelligence of this forum.

Care is in order; you don't want anyone here to think of you as this:

[quote author=Lobaczewski]Schizoidia: Schizoidia, or schizoidal psychopathy, was isolated by the very first of the famous creators of modern psychiatry.48 From the beginning, it was treated as a lighter form of the same hereditary taint which is the cause of susceptibility to schizophrenia. However, this latter connection could neither be confirmed nor denied with the help of statistical analysis, and no biological test was then found which would have been able to solve this dilemma. For practical reasons, we shall discuss schizoidia with no further reference to this traditional relationship.

Literature provides us with descriptions of several varieties of this anomaly, whose existence can be attributed either to changes in the genetic factor or to differences in other individual characteristics of a non-pathological nature. Let us thus sketch these sub-species’ common features.

Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, while, at the same time, pay little attention to the feelings of others. They tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easily become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature. We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”.

Human nature does in fact tend to be naughty, especially when the schizoids embitter other people’s lives. When they become wrapped up in situations of serious stress, however, the schizoid’s failings cause them to collapse easily. The capacity for thought is thereupon characteristically stifled, and frequently the schizoids fall into reactive psychotic states so similar in appearance to schizophrenia that they lead to misdiagnoses.

The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotion and lack of feeling for the psychological realities, an essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to some incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which works as though founded on shifting sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity, but because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.

The quantitative frequency of this anomaly varies among races and nations: low among Blacks, the highest among Jews. Estimates of this frequency range from negligible up to 3 %. In Poland it may be estimated as 0.7 % of population. My observations suggest this anomaly is autosomally hereditary.49

A schizoid’s ponerological activity should be evaluated in two aspects. On the small scale, such people cause their families trouble, easily turn into tools of intrigue in the hands of clever and unscrupulous individuals, and generally do a poor job of raising children. Their tendency to see human reality in the doctrinaire and simplistic manner they consider “proper” – i.e. “black or white” - transforms their frequently good intentions into bad results. However, their ponerogenic role can have macrosocial implications if their attitude toward human reality and their tendency to invent great doctrines are put to paper and duplicated in large editions.

In spite of their typical deficits, or even an openly schizoidal declaration, their readers do not realize what the authors’ characters are really like. Ignorant of the true condition of the author, such uninformed readers tend to interpret such works in a manner corresponding to their own nature. The minds of normal people tend toward corrective interpretation due to the participation of their own richer, psychological world view.

At the same time, many other readers critically reject such works with moral disgust but without being aware of the specific cause.

An analysis of the role played by Karl Marx’s works easily reveals all the above-mentioned types of apperception and the social reactions which engendered animosity between large groups of people.

When reading any of those disturbingly divisive works, we should examine them carefully for any of these characteristic deficits, or even an openly formulated schizoid declaration. Such a process will enable us to gain a proper critical distance from the contents and make it easier to dig the potentially valuable elements out of the doctrinaire material. If this is done by two or more people who represent greatly divergent interpretations, their methods of perception will come closer together, and the causes of dissent will dissipate. Such a project might be attempted as a psychological experiment and for purposes of proper mental hygiene. {....}

During stable times which are ostensibly happy, albeit dependent upon injustice to other individuals and nations, doctrinaire people believe they have found a simple solution to fix the world. Such a historical period is always characterized by an impoverished psychological world view, so that a schizoidally impoverished psychological world view does not stand out as odd during such times and is accepted as legal tender. These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world view.

Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature. They are thus eventually able to overpower another individual’s personality, which causes the latter’s behavior to turn desperately illogical. They may also exert a similar influence upon the group of people they have joined. They are psychological loners who then begin to feel better in some human organization, wherein they become zealots for some ideology, religious bigots, materialists, or adherents of an ideology with satanic features. If their activities consist of direct contact on a small social scale, their acquaintances generally just consider them to be eccentric, which limits their ponerogenic role. However, if they manage to hide their own personality behind the written word, their influence may poison the minds of society on a wide scale and for a long time.

The conviction that Karl Marx is the best example of this is correct as he was the best-known figure of that kind. Frostig91, a psychiatrist of the old school, included Engels and others into a category he called “bearded schizoidal fanatics”. The famous writings attributed to “Zionist Wise Men” at the turn of the century begin with a typically schizoidal declaration. The nineteenth century, especially its latter half, appears to have been a time of exceptional activity on the part of schizoidal individuals, often but not always of Jewish descent. After all we have to remember that 97 % of all Jews do not manifest this anomaly, and that it also appears among all European nations, albeit to a markedly lesser extent. Our inheritance from this period includes world-images, scientific traditions, and legal concepts flavored with the shoddy ingredients of a schizoidal apprehension of reality.{...}

In spite of the fact that the writings of schizoidal authors contain the above described deficiency, or even an openly formulated schizoidal declaration which constitutes sufficient warning to specialists, the average reader accepts them not as a view of reality warped by this anomaly, but rather as an idea to which he should consider seriously based on his convictions and his reason. That is the first mistake.

The oversimplified pattern of ideas, devoid of psychological color and based on easily available data, tends to exert an intense attracting influence on individuals who are insufficiently critical, frequently frustrated as result of downward social adjustment, culturally neglected, or characterized by some psychological deficiencies of their own. Such writings are particularly attractive to a hystericized society. Others who may read such writings will be immediately provoked to criticism based on their healthy common sense, though they also they fail to grasp the essential cause of the error: that it emerges from a biologically deviant mind.

Societal interpretation of such writings and doctrinaire declarations breaks down into main trifurcations, engendering divisiveness and conflict. The first branch is the path of aversion, based on rejection of the contents of the work due to personal motivations, differing convictions, or moral revulsion. These reactions contain the component of a moralistic interpretation of pathological phenomena.

The second and third branches relate to two distinctly different apperception types among those persons who accept the contents of such works: the critically-corrective and the pathological.

The critically-corrective approach is taken by people whose feel for psychological reality is normal and they tend to incorporate the more valuable elements of the work. They then trivialize the obvious errors and fill in the missing elements of the schizoid deficiencies by means of their own richer world view. This gives rise to a more sensible, measured, and thus creative interpretation, but is cannot be completely free from the influence of the error frequently adduced above.

Pathological acceptance is manifested by individuals with psychological deficiencies of their own: diversiform deviations, whether inherited or acquired, as well as by many people bearing personality malformations or who have been injured by social injustice. That explains why this scope is wider than the circle drawn by direct action of pathological factors. Pathological acceptance of schizoidal writings or declarations by other deviants often brutalizes the authors’ concepts and promotes ideas of force and revolutionary means.
 
MC said:
Take a breath djewlew, maybe ease off on posting as reaction.

It may be that you merely underestimate the collective intelligence of this forum.

Care is in order; you don't want anyone here to think of you as this:

[quote author=Lobaczewski]Schizoidia: Schizoidia, or schizoidal psychopathy, was isolated by the very first of the famous creators of modern psychiatry.48 From the beginning, it was treated as a lighter form of the same hereditary taint which is the cause of susceptibility to schizophrenia. However, this latter connection could neither be confirmed nor denied with the help of statistical analysis, and no biological test was then found which would have been able to solve this dilemma. For practical reasons, we shall discuss schizoidia with no further reference to this traditional relationship.

Literature provides us with descriptions of several varieties of this anomaly, whose existence can be attributed either to changes in the genetic factor or to differences in other individual characteristics of a non-pathological nature. Let us thus sketch these sub-species’ common features.

Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, while, at the same time, pay little attention to the feelings of others. They tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easily become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature. We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”.

Human nature does in fact tend to be naughty, especially when the schizoids embitter other people’s lives. When they become wrapped up in situations of serious stress, however, the schizoid’s failings cause them to collapse easily. The capacity for thought is thereupon characteristically stifled, and frequently the schizoids fall into reactive psychotic states so similar in appearance to schizophrenia that they lead to misdiagnoses.

The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotion and lack of feeling for the psychological realities, an essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to some incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which works as though founded on shifting sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity, but because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.

The quantitative frequency of this anomaly varies among races and nations: low among Blacks, the highest among Jews. Estimates of this frequency range from negligible up to 3 %. In Poland it may be estimated as 0.7 % of population. My observations suggest this anomaly is autosomally hereditary.49

A schizoid’s ponerological activity should be evaluated in two aspects. On the small scale, such people cause their families trouble, easily turn into tools of intrigue in the hands of clever and unscrupulous individuals, and generally do a poor job of raising children. Their tendency to see human reality in the doctrinaire and simplistic manner they consider “proper” – i.e. “black or white” - transforms their frequently good intentions into bad results. However, their ponerogenic role can have macrosocial implications if their attitude toward human reality and their tendency to invent great doctrines are put to paper and duplicated in large editions.

In spite of their typical deficits, or even an openly schizoidal declaration, their readers do not realize what the authors’ characters are really like. Ignorant of the true condition of the author, such uninformed readers tend to interpret such works in a manner corresponding to their own nature. The minds of normal people tend toward corrective interpretation due to the participation of their own richer, psychological world view.

At the same time, many other readers critically reject such works with moral disgust but without being aware of the specific cause.

An analysis of the role played by Karl Marx’s works easily reveals all the above-mentioned types of apperception and the social reactions which engendered animosity between large groups of people.

When reading any of those disturbingly divisive works, we should examine them carefully for any of these characteristic deficits, or even an openly formulated schizoid declaration. Such a process will enable us to gain a proper critical distance from the contents and make it easier to dig the potentially valuable elements out of the doctrinaire material. If this is done by two or more people who represent greatly divergent interpretations, their methods of perception will come closer together, and the causes of dissent will dissipate. Such a project might be attempted as a psychological experiment and for purposes of proper mental hygiene. {....}

During stable times which are ostensibly happy, albeit dependent upon injustice to other individuals and nations, doctrinaire people believe they have found a simple solution to fix the world. Such a historical period is always characterized by an impoverished psychological world view, so that a schizoidally impoverished psychological world view does not stand out as odd during such times and is accepted as legal tender. These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world view.

Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature. They are thus eventually able to overpower another individual’s personality, which causes the latter’s behavior to turn desperately illogical. They may also exert a similar influence upon the group of people they have joined. They are psychological loners who then begin to feel better in some human organization, wherein they become zealots for some ideology, religious bigots, materialists, or adherents of an ideology with satanic features. If their activities consist of direct contact on a small social scale, their acquaintances generally just consider them to be eccentric, which limits their ponerogenic role. However, if they manage to hide their own personality behind the written word, their influence may poison the minds of society on a wide scale and for a long time.

The conviction that Karl Marx is the best example of this is correct as he was the best-known figure of that kind. Frostig91, a psychiatrist of the old school, included Engels and others into a category he called “bearded schizoidal fanatics”. The famous writings attributed to “Zionist Wise Men” at the turn of the century begin with a typically schizoidal declaration. The nineteenth century, especially its latter half, appears to have been a time of exceptional activity on the part of schizoidal individuals, often but not always of Jewish descent. After all we have to remember that 97 % of all Jews do not manifest this anomaly, and that it also appears among all European nations, albeit to a markedly lesser extent. Our inheritance from this period includes world-images, scientific traditions, and legal concepts flavored with the shoddy ingredients of a schizoidal apprehension of reality.{...}

In spite of the fact that the writings of schizoidal authors contain the above described deficiency, or even an openly formulated schizoidal declaration which constitutes sufficient warning to specialists, the average reader accepts them not as a view of reality warped by this anomaly, but rather as an idea to which he should consider seriously based on his convictions and his reason. That is the first mistake.

The oversimplified pattern of ideas, devoid of psychological color and based on easily available data, tends to exert an intense attracting influence on individuals who are insufficiently critical, frequently frustrated as result of downward social adjustment, culturally neglected, or characterized by some psychological deficiencies of their own. Such writings are particularly attractive to a hystericized society. Others who may read such writings will be immediately provoked to criticism based on their healthy common sense, though they also they fail to grasp the essential cause of the error: that it emerges from a biologically deviant mind.

Societal interpretation of such writings and doctrinaire declarations breaks down into main trifurcations, engendering divisiveness and conflict. The first branch is the path of aversion, based on rejection of the contents of the work due to personal motivations, differing convictions, or moral revulsion. These reactions contain the component of a moralistic interpretation of pathological phenomena.

The second and third branches relate to two distinctly different apperception types among those persons who accept the contents of such works: the critically-corrective and the pathological.

The critically-corrective approach is taken by people whose feel for psychological reality is normal and they tend to incorporate the more valuable elements of the work. They then trivialize the obvious errors and fill in the missing elements of the schizoid deficiencies by means of their own richer world view. This gives rise to a more sensible, measured, and thus creative interpretation, but is cannot be completely free from the influence of the error frequently adduced above.

Pathological acceptance is manifested by individuals with psychological deficiencies of their own: diversiform deviations, whether inherited or acquired, as well as by many people bearing personality malformations or who have been injured by social injustice. That explains why this scope is wider than the circle drawn by direct action of pathological factors. Pathological acceptance of schizoidal writings or declarations by other deviants often brutalizes the authors’ concepts and promotes ideas of force and revolutionary means.

Yes, I will. See you later. Meanwhile, you're the one who reacted too quickly. Please, go sit down a little and read this stuff here:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm
 
djewlew, this is not an either-or problem. as in, the problem is not just the bible or just the people that used it. all sorts of religious texts have been used for justification of violence and oppression. all sorts of people have set up or given in to sources of authority that they believe justify their actions.

this is classic behavior in a reality in which people are manipulated by psychopaths. the systems of rule in this society - economic, political and religious - have been infiltrated by pathological people, and thus their ways of thinking permeate down through all levels and are taken up by the majority of the population.

the idea of burning bibles to attempt to eradicate the influence of religion is reactionary and short-sighted. it is best to first spend time learning about how this place works, as mkrnhr has said, and then network with others who are learning in order to find solutions to these problems.

so in answer to your question, no, i don't think we should burn the bible. i grew up in a heavy religious environment, and i can tell you i've spent plenty of time being pissed about this issue just like it sounds you are. if you are truly concerned, and you seem like you are, with the effect religion has had on this society and the mass hypnosis that affects all of us, begin first to learn about yourself (with the help of others also learning) and about the environment in which you live.

as you grow and learn, you can get closer to being able to actually help others who have fallen under the same hypnosis. then, you would be infinitely more effective than if you'd set up 100 million bibles in flames.
 
JonnyRadar said:
djewlew, this is not an either-or problem. as in, the problem is not just the bible or just the people that used it. all sorts of religious texts have been used for justification of violence and oppression. all sorts of people have set up or given in to sources of authority that they believe justify their actions.

this is classic behavior in a reality in which people are manipulated by psychopaths. the systems of rule in this society - economic, political and religious - have been infiltrated by pathological people, and thus their ways of thinking permeate down through all levels and are taken up by the majority of the population.

the idea of burning bibles to attempt to eradicate the influence of religion is reactionary and short-sighted. it is best to first spend time learning about how this place works, as mkrnhr has said, and then network with others who are learning in order to find solutions to these problems.

so in answer to your question, no, i don't think we should burn the bible. i grew up in a heavy religious environment, and i can tell you i've spent plenty of time being pissed about this issue just like it sounds you are. if you are truly concerned, and you seem like you are, with the effect religion has had on this society and the mass hypnosis that affects all of us, begin first to learn about yourself (with the help of others also learning) and about the environment in which you live.

as you grow and learn, you can get closer to being able to actually help others who have fallen under the same hypnosis. then, you would be infinitely more effective than if you'd set up 100 million bibles in flames.

Well, I like your reply, I really do. For the record, I am 61, and a grandfather. I have studied the Bible and other matters for decades. I understand what being a VICTIM of religion is all about. However, to "find solutions to these problems" has been a social failure throughout the many centuries. What "solutions"? I asked if burning the Bible wouldn't be one of the solutions looked for for TWO THOUSAND years of crime in its name. You say, no. Fine. What is the solution, then, to the religious crimes in the name of that holy book?!...
 
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