Show #46: The Electric Universe - Wallace Thornhill Interview

Niall

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thinker said:
voyageur said:
The Oort system of rubble was not discussed (or i don't remember), which could well account for the influence of interlopers caused by the sun’s twin, if it exists.
The Oort cloud was a theory that was needed to explain the origin of comets in dirty snowball comet theory. I don't think it was ever confirmed by observation and electrical theory doesn't really need it for anything.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/special_edition/100116_se_teu1.htm

There's always a Kuiper belt though that Pluto is part of, but this is much closer to Sun than theorized Oort cloud.
Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. The 'Electric Universe' concept, in and of itself, isn't the whole banana either. Celestial mechanics is still sound in many respects. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build spacecraft that work as they're programmed to do. Acknowledging the role of plasma and seeing electrical phenomena for what they are, actually lends mainstream cosmology a big helping hand! A lot of what were previously 'dark matters' now have vistas opened up before them for science to explore. Twin Suns, Oort Clouds and wormholes may actually fit well within an Electric Universe model.
 

Approaching Infinity

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Kniall said:
thinker said:
voyageur said:
The Oort system of rubble was not discussed (or i don't remember), which could well account for the influence of interlopers caused by the sun’s twin, if it exists.
The Oort cloud was a theory that was needed to explain the origin of comets in dirty snowball comet theory. I don't think it was ever confirmed by observation and electrical theory doesn't really need it for anything.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/special_edition/100116_se_teu1.htm

There's always a Kuiper belt though that Pluto is part of, but this is much closer to Sun than theorized Oort cloud.
Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. The 'Electric Universe' concept, in and of itself, isn't the whole banana either. Celestial mechanics is still sound in many respects. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build spacecraft that work as they're programmed to do. Acknowledging the role of plasma and seeing electrical phenomena for what they are, actually lends mainstream cosmology a big helping hand! A lot of what were previously 'dark matters' now have vistas opened up before them for science to explore. Twin Suns, Oort Clouds and wormholes may actually fit well within an Electric Universe model.
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
 

thinker

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Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
I guess as long as all the bodies in a system have a charge similar to its surroundings and the system is stable the gravity is the main driver. As soon as there's a charge difference, or a body travels between areas with a different charge we start seeing electrical influences. The bigger the charge difference the bigger the influence.
 

SeekinTruth

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thinker said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
I guess as long as all the bodies in a system have a charge similar to its surroundings and the system is stable the gravity is the main driver. As soon as there's a charge difference, or a body travels between areas with a different charge we start seeing electrical influences. The bigger the charge difference the bigger the influence.
These are pretty much my thoughts, as well. That's what I've gathered from those more knowledgeable discussing these things. Don't know the details, though, where the devil is always found. :P
 

Jefferson

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Interesting show - just listened to it.

Wallace refers to the "squatter man" around 42:00 or so.
Here are some images:
_http://thehiddenrecords.com/images/dogon-squatter-man-petroglyph-orion-Anthony-Peratt.jpg

"plasma discharge phenomena" - as Horns of Moses explains well.

As Joe mentioned, these ancients had better knowledge of the universe than NASA does :lol:
 

John G

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Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
This actually came up recently for me on an Amazon religion forum. Someone brought up dark energy and dark matter for some silly relationship with God but someone else mentioned the Thunderbolts.info site so I kind of ended up getting a little more detailed than my original dark energy/dark matter post.

http://www.amazon.com/forum/christianity/ref=cm_cd_pg_oldest?_encoding=UTF8&authToken=&cdForum=Fx77WQHU8YS50Z&cdPage=1&cdSort=newest&cdThread=Tx108BBKNR74SG9

I actually like the Electric Universe ideas but they actually relate to dark matter/dark energy ideas too. When I said I like dark matter for the 3 or 4 to one ratio (via bullet cluster/WMAP observations) not for galactic rotations (10 to 100 to one ratio dark matter to ordinary matter required), I had Electric Universe ideas in mind for galaxy rotations (which in my mind relate to dark energy).

Here's the same guy (Tony Smith) I linked to before for dark energy and dark matter with another dark energy/dark matter link that has Birkeland current pictures from the thunderbolts.info site you mention:

http://www.tony5m17h.net/AngMomMassMagMom.html

Most of my knowledge of Wallace Thornhill and the Thunderbolts Project came via websites owned by physicist Arkadiusz Jadczyk and his wife Laura. They own a news site where they did a radio interview of Thornhill:

http://www.sott.net/article/272013-SOTT-Talk-Radio-The-Electric-Universe-An-interview-with-Wallace-Thornhill

Thornhill from that interview: "the longitudinal electric force was of profound importance... But in the electric universe where you understand gravity as an electrical phenomenon "

It relates to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Longitudinal_wave

... longitudinal plasma waves and longitudinal electromagnetic waves are similar... the appearance of longitudinal waves in such a case does not in anyway contradict Maxwell's equation. In fact to obtain the waves, you use Maxwell's equations...

back to me: The full symmetry group for Maxwell's equations is the conformal group which also contains the rotations, boosts and translations for gravity. Then add in:

http://www.tony5m17h.net/topolophys.html

"In American Journal of Physics 39 (1971) 901-904,
David Finkelstein showed that in Unimodular Relativity
the Cosmological Constant is an unavoidable Lagrange
Multiplier beloging to a constraint that expresses
the existence of a Fundamental Volume Element of
Spacetime Hypervolume at every point of Spacetime.
Unimodular SL(4) is related to SU(2,2) which is
isomorphic to the Conformal Group Spin(2,4). "

and you have the same math handling longitudinal EM waves, gravity, and the cosmological constant (aka dark energy). Fitting in regular EM is actually a bit complicated however (it adds in along with the nuclear forces).
So basically I think Ark and Tony's use of conformal gravity handles longitudinal photons so it's kind of semantics whether you are calling it gravity or EM though it more directly math-wise extends from gravity but it also might directly handle some solutions for Maxwell's equations.
 

wodasi

Jedi
Wal Thornhill: Electric Comets & Asteroids | EU Workshop

recently on youtube

Enjoy Wal Thornhill's presentation from the EU Workshop, November 14-16, 2014, Phoenix, Arizona. More than any other individual, Wal has given the EU movement its emphasis on direct observation and experiment, in contrast to today’s “modeling” of the physical world through extravagant mathematics. Wal’s six presentations provided a compendium of the things that scientifically curious people need to know in order to see the electric force for what it is. This is the sixth of six talks.
https://youtu.be/HnwqU002w_A
 

Voyageur

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Perhaps this Thornhill talk was previously discussed as it was observed the other day; Wal here in recognition of Velikovsky. At one point it reminded me of this:

Q: (Ark) Maybe this Flat Earth theory is created to distract from the Hollow Earth theory?

(Pierre) It can be flat and hollow. [laughter]

A: No there is more "truth" to the "Hollow Earth" theory!

Q: (L) As in underground bases and 4th density planes of existence under the Earth?

A: Yes

Q: (Perceval) We have no problem with that one. We can run with that one.

(L) Huh?

(Perceval) We're willing to entertain the Hollow Earth theory.

(L) Yes.

(Perceval) Just not flat. Hollow, yes. Flat, no. [laughter]

(Alana) Can it be hollow if it's flat? {:-D}

(Timótheos) Like a tire!

Wal Thornhill: Velikovsky’s Astrophysics | EU2017

The above was about bases occupying parts of our inner sphere, however, here Wal spends some time talking about Dipoles and gravitational polarization - bringing up the theory of hollow earth including other cosmic spheres such as our sun (starts around 38:00 - for that aspect). Interesting discussion overall.

 

Voyageur

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There are two other things that were viewed along these lines. One was titled 'NEW VIEWS OF THE INTERSTELLAR MEDIUM' — Michael Clarage.

This certainly brings to focus the 'as above so below' thinking in terms of cells, atoms and cosmic spheres and filaments. I don't know, nor do they, yet what we are looking at is pretty damn incredible which ever way one sees it. At a couple of points the juxtaposition of images was uncanny. This also takes the viewer inside the lab of the SAFIRE project.

Dr. Michael Clarage talks about his work with SAFIRE from a more philosophical perspective – what an empiricist might ponder outside the lab. He offers some intriguing if not startling observations about the astronomical and the biological, the dead and the living universe.
Please note: we will NOT be posting all of the EU2018 UK talks, just three that relate to the SAFIRE Project, an experiment near and dear to our hearts. See the link in the text box under the video to find out more about the rest of the talks.

The last one viewed was a November posted talk from this year by Rupert Sheldrake:

Rupert Sheldrake - Is The Sun Conscious?

This weeks The Truth Perspective: Unlocking the Secrets of Consciousness, Hyperdimensional Attractors and Frog Brains (do have a listen if you can) looks at consciousness from a different view, and yet somehow relates to where Sheldrake goes, and this in turn is somewhat related to what Clarage touches on - and what the C's often point to, osit.

It is damn humbling.

Published on Nov 8, 2018

Recorded at Reconnect 2018 (7th July, Bath UK). Other talks from the same event available as video-on-demand here: https://www.electricuniverseuk.eu/videos Speculative and thought provoking talk which asks us to look beyond the strict confines of scientific materialism and consider how the consciousness of stellar bodies (such as our Sun) is not only of anthropological or cultural interest but a valid field of enquiry in modern philosophy, psychology, cosmology, and neuroscience. Other talks from the same event available as video-on-demand here: https://www.electricuniverseuk.com/vi...
YouTube


Also had a listen again to the original talk here with Joe and Niall interviewing Wal.
 
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herondancer

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Thanks for the Sheldrake video. I like his ideas a lot, and it's good to see he feels it's possible to broach them seriously.

A long time ago I read a very interesting and unsettling science fiction book that had been published in 1937 called Star Maker, by Olaf Stapledon. It anticipated many of Sheldrake's themes

From Wikipedia:
A single human narrator from England is transported out of his body via unexplained means. He realizes he is able to explore space and other planets. After exploring a civilization on another planet at a level of development similar to our own that existed millions of years ago thousands of light years from Earth (the "Other Earth") in some detail, his mind merges with that of one of its inhabitants, and as they travel together, they are joined by still more minds or group-minds. This snowballing process is paralleled by the expansion of the book's scale, describing more and more planets in less and less detail.

The disembodied travelers encounter many ideas that are interesting from both science-fictional and philosophical points of view. These include the first known instance of what is now called the Dyson shpere; a reference to a scenario closely predicting the later zoo hypothesis or Star Trek's "Prime Directive"; many imaginative descriptions of species, civilizations and methods of warfare; descriptions of the Multiverse; and the idea that the stars and even pre-galactic are intelligent beings, operating on vast time scales. A key idea is the formation of collective minds from many telepathically linked individuals, on the level of planets, galaxies, and eventually the cosmos itself.

The climax of the book is the "supreme moment of the cosmos", when the cosmical mind (which includes the narrator) attains momentary contact with the titular "Star Maker". The Star Maker is the creator of the universe, but stands in the same relation to it as an artist to his work, and calmly assesses its quality without any feeling for the suffering of its inhabitants. This element makes the novel one of Stapledon's efforts to write "an essay in myth making".

After meeting the Star Maker, the traveler is given a "fantastic myth or dream," in which he observes the Star Maker at work. He discovers that his own cosmos is only one of a vast number, and by no means the most significant. He sees the Star Maker's early work, and he learns that the Star Maker was surprised and intensely interested when some of his early "toy" universes — for example a universe composed entirely of music with no spatial dimensions — displayed "modes of behavior that were not in accord with the canon which he had ordained for them." He sees the Star Maker experimenting with more elaborate universes, which include the traveler's own universe, and a triune universe which closely resembles "Christian orthodoxy" (the three universes respectively being hell, heaven, and reality with presence of a savior). The Star Maker goes on to create "mature" universes of extraordinary complexity, culminating in an "ultimate cosmos," through which the Star Maker fulfills his own eternal destiny as "the ground and crown of all things." Finally, the traveler returns to Earth at the place and time he left, to resume his life there.
It's a wild ride that you can read on Kindle for a buck.

Widely regarded as one of the true classics of science fiction, Star Maker is a poetic and deeply philosophical work. The story details the mental journey of an unnamed narrator who is transported not only to other worlds but also other galaxies and parallel universes, until he eventually becomes part of the "cosmic mind." First published in 1937, Olaf Stapledon's descriptions of alien life are a political commentary on human life in the turbulent inter-war years. The book challenges preconceived notions of intelligence and awareness, and ultimately argues for a broadened perspective that would free us from culturally ingrained thought and our inevitable anthropomorphism. This is the first scholarly edition of a book that influenced such writers as C.S. Lewis and Arthur C. Clarke and which Jorge Luis Borges called "a prodigious novel."
 

Pashalis

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Perhaps this Thornhill talk was previously discussed as it was observed the other day; Wal here in recognition of Velikovsky. At one point it reminded me of this:




Wal Thornhill: Velikovsky’s Astrophysics | EU2017

The above was about bases occupying parts of our inner sphere, however, here Wal spends some time talking about Dipoles and gravitational polarization - bringing up the theory of hollow earth including other cosmic spheres such as our sun (starts around 38:00 - for that aspect). Interesting discussion overall.

Utterly fascinating and interesting! Thanks for sharing! I‘ll have to start reading some of his stuff and Velikovsky’s. I‘m wondering what Arks take on it would be since he is an expert in Physics, Quantum and Gravity stuff.
 

Pashalis

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Utterly fascinating and interesting! Thanks for sharing! I‘ll have to start reading some of his stuff and Velikovsky’s. I‘m wondering what Arks take on it would be since he is an expert in Physics, Quantum and Gravity stuff.
Among the many interesting things Thornhill brings up, as Voyageur brought up, is the idea that pretty much all celestial bodies must be hollow in the inside, and the bodies themselves thus more like shells. In other words: the sun, moon and earth could in fact be hollow according to his reasoning.

Another interesting idea he brings up, in passing, in the following video, is the idea that at the times of the dinosaurs, the earth didn't revolve around our sun but around a "cold" brown dwarf! Which reminded me of the content of this recent post in another thread about gravity and the times of the dinosaurs.

[...]I mean, let’s not forget the massive dinosaurs that couldn’t possibly support their weight nor fit enough food in their small mouths to sustain a metabolism that would be required in our gravity. Things were clearly very different in some ways. I’m not saying that’s the answer to the pyramids. I’m good with the sound waves answer the Cs gave, but I’m willing at least to entertain additional, concurrent possibilities.

Now, Thornhill doesn't strike me as someone who would consider things like that without some concrete data behind it and some concrete reasoning. Having said that, some of the research from him and others in this field might be overstating some electrical phenomena while understating comet-impact like phenomena and how they interact with bodies. I could be wrong though.

In the same video he mentions the work of Anthony Peratt on Petroglyphs around the world with some pretty astounding results. For example, many if not all Petroglyphs are apparently directed in similar ways towards magnetic south and only present in places were a direct or indirect view towards south is possible. One pair of Petroglyphs can apparently be overlaid very exactly, even though they are from very different and far away parts of the world. Like a exact copy, or something on the other side of the planet.

Anthony Peratt discussing Petroglyphs and solar outbursts and plasma physics experiments in the lab.
 
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Skyfarmr

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
For all you Thunderbolt (TB) fans, (Walter Thornhill and David Talbott) here is a statement from Ben Davidson of Suspicious Observers. It is presented in video format on the members/subscribers' Deeper Look section.

Rather than linking the video/site here, since it is for subscribers only, I took the time to transcribe it because it should give you pause about the Thunderbolt Projects theories and the sound science being tethered to them.

Dated June 16, 2019 Titled "A Terrible Rabbit Hole"
Opening screenshot: "They cheated Billy Yelverton, Peratt and myself. They lied. Their funding requires their adherence to the past despite new evidence"

Ben: "Hey folks, here's a rabbit hole to the max and it's not going to be a fun one. Someone posted a comment yesterday following a youtube video about the Lucifer Publishing Company.... In the early 1920's they put out 24 books of the arcane nature, and I found out that that existed for a few years and then they changed their name to the Lucius Publishing company probably a good name on their part, they then later became The Lucis Trust.
Today the Lucis Trust is world wide, well funded, invocational[sic], somewhat exclusive and they have their hands in it all the way to the UN. They are a recognized NGO and they influence a number of activities there, most notably related to sustainability, code for Agenda 21. As with all things like this it is veiled in something entirely benign and good. They describe global community service, sacrifice, and their website even has kind words on Jesus Christ. It's the sort of thing you see on the surface of all these types of organizations, but a global communtiy of what? service and sacrifice to what? or whom?
The publishing company, and later named iterations, were founded and run by Alice Bailey until her death in the 40's. Alice Bailey was an unquestioned appreciater of Lucifer and numerous accounts of anti-semitic discourse and principles ran through her organization. It is said that at their invocations the Jews were identified as the great problem to be irradicated. So how Luciferian is this group, how anti-semitic and how well would that work in today's power structure of the globe, or is that what the nice friendly-to-Jesus Christ veil is for?
How influential are they at the UN and it's long reaching arm into the nations of the world. Good questions. But again, someone just dropped the name yesterday, this is as far as I've gotten on the UN topic. Would love some help there.

This is not the worst of the news on this rabbit hole. So It sould be no secret by now that I am done with the Thunderbolts. I have watched them cheat others and I ignored it because I thought the science was on point. And to a degree it is. But it's not theirs! WHat they claim as thier paradigm is that of Birkland, Alfaign[sp?] and of Anthony Peratt and the Plasma Universe. And while Peratt is repeatedly used by the Thunderbolts(TB) as evidence in support of their theory, Peratt, himself denies this.[!] Claims it as a solar catastrophe. He sent David Talbott those images in private, and in confidence, told him he wanted a chance to publish it himself. He was betrayed, used and lied about. For example, when it became clear that Suspicious Observers were going to be something the TB wanted to scoop up I was initially open to the concept, heck I spoke at four straight EU conferences. But every time I suggested that I or we reach back out to Peratt It was a very hard and stern line from them: "he is very busy, he doesn't want to engage with the community at large, he just wants to speak to US." In reality, they just didn't want me finding out the truth Peratt hadn't spoke to Dave in years since he had been betrayed. And he in no way supports the mutated version they call EU as being anything unique or different than the plasma universe. What the TB have done is capitalize on Los Alamos national lab telling Peratt he needed to stay low and keep a bit more quiet. They saw their opportunity to be seized. They trademarked the term EU, which is not only a crappy thing to do but it made it so NASA and universities could never get on board with it... not without trademark law discussions that those organizations i promise,will avoid like the plague. They doomed their own cause to obscurity. They did it via their own greed and they did it for something they knew they could steal.

So what the heck does this have to with the first part of the video? Well, it is well known there is a certain aura of sin at previous EU conferences.... it is said that open relations were a thing there and without getting too personal about anyone in particular, I know some of the most inside individuals have some very peculiar and unorthodox ideas about love, marriage, responsibility and loyalty. I kind of found it disgusting actually, but as i said, I figured perhaps even the right track isn't peachy and clean. Well, you can say that again. Straight up. They all made it very clear that the work of Alice Bailey was like a bible to them, especially her third in the 7 ray series, a Treatise on Cosmic Fire. For some of them it's basically a spiritual holy book. I read it, it was interesting, but just a reiteration of things I'd heard before, or already knew intuitively and indeed containing some parts that were interpretively questionable. But I didn't know who Alice Bailey was. When I saw Alice Bailey's name on the Lucifer publishing company, literally, six years of clues and questions and doubts and evidence surrounding the TB came crashing in to view. Again, this is just yesterday I found this. I literally have got hundreds of examples of their trickery and thievery and refusal to bend the facts and logic in favor of ego and support of their story. But i ignored it. Now do i think Talbot and Thornhill eat babies? No. Did i ignore my own gut in sticking with them for years? Yes. To be honest they wreak of sleaze, both of them and I just ignored it because i wanted to. Peratt and John McGovern, who you might recall did the underground tunnel research for the catastrophe cycle and has published numerous times with Peratt. Both questioned the death of their friend on the day he arrived in Australia to check Wal Thornhill's academic credentials; he was found at the bottom of a river.
They used to call him Dr Thornhill, not anymore.

Nobody in the last five years has spread the TB popularity like I have and I have some serious karma to pay for that one, but it begins by doing the right thing. This is a plasma universe. The TB stole Peratts work, claimed it was something else. They lied to me, held us back from the joyfully pleasant and engaging Dr Peratt and the plasma universe. Their funding from the Mainwarings is wholly based on the principle that they keep the Velikovsky name alive since the Mainwarings were part of the Velikovsky team, and they are really just a bunch of aging party animals who know some legit science, are parading it around in a fancy dress and are making their future push now with Eugene Bagashoft[sp?] at the helm-clearly meant to be the next voice for the TB. I very much remember when they wanted that to be me.
Now i will play a different roll in the TB existence. Frankly, i didn't need this Alice Bailey-luciferian focus to be off the bolts- many of you know that happened a while ago. Peratt is what it took. It is time though that the credit came backward is due, and with that, and what they did to me and Peratt and with this odd love of a lucifer worshiper, there are just too many red flags, especially when the national plasma labs are basically proving Anthony Peratt correct by the month these days. I'm taking this one very seriously guys.
Plasma Universe, it's not only the just name, but it's more scientifically accurate. Be safe everyone."


Wow, he talks fast, that's hard work and I've used up most of my computer time today.
But I have the day off tomorrow, will check back for comments.

In short, so much of this sounded eerily familiar to Laura's travels down the rabbit hole.
As well as to other disappearances to hide the facts.

I admit watching Thunderbolt videos, and thought them very entertaining, the science very interesting, but as a whole was hesitant to hop on that wagon. Something wasn't making sense and just didn't seem to pass the muster. Kind of like wrapping some hard scientific truths in almost believable fiction.

Anyway, I like Ben Davidson's work, he translates space science talk so it's understandable, and stays away from speculations for the most part. And he's got the courage to speak out about his humiliating experience. Thumbs up to SO.
 

anka

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Thanks a lot for taking the time to transcript the video, Skyfarmr. Shocking to say the least. I share your view on TB team's work and on Ben as well. And I don't think Ben is overacting, making it up or anything of that kind. He seems very much down to earth to me. That's why his statement is even more unbelievable. That part about a friend of Perrat and Ben is just... what?! His death, if the story is real, would mean that the TB team has some serious, nasty overlords who indeed would not be afraid to eat babies. The whole thing stinks.

Comparison with Laura's and Ark's adventures fits well.
 
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