Show #46: The Electric Universe - Wallace Thornhill Interview

Niall

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#46
thinker said:
voyageur said:
The Oort system of rubble was not discussed (or i don't remember), which could well account for the influence of interlopers caused by the sun’s twin, if it exists.
The Oort cloud was a theory that was needed to explain the origin of comets in dirty snowball comet theory. I don't think it was ever confirmed by observation and electrical theory doesn't really need it for anything.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/special_edition/100116_se_teu1.htm

There's always a Kuiper belt though that Pluto is part of, but this is much closer to Sun than theorized Oort cloud.
Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. The 'Electric Universe' concept, in and of itself, isn't the whole banana either. Celestial mechanics is still sound in many respects. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build spacecraft that work as they're programmed to do. Acknowledging the role of plasma and seeing electrical phenomena for what they are, actually lends mainstream cosmology a big helping hand! A lot of what were previously 'dark matters' now have vistas opened up before them for science to explore. Twin Suns, Oort Clouds and wormholes may actually fit well within an Electric Universe model.
 

Approaching Infinity

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#47
Kniall said:
thinker said:
voyageur said:
The Oort system of rubble was not discussed (or i don't remember), which could well account for the influence of interlopers caused by the sun’s twin, if it exists.
The Oort cloud was a theory that was needed to explain the origin of comets in dirty snowball comet theory. I don't think it was ever confirmed by observation and electrical theory doesn't really need it for anything.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/special_edition/100116_se_teu1.htm

There's always a Kuiper belt though that Pluto is part of, but this is much closer to Sun than theorized Oort cloud.
Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. The 'Electric Universe' concept, in and of itself, isn't the whole banana either. Celestial mechanics is still sound in many respects. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build spacecraft that work as they're programmed to do. Acknowledging the role of plasma and seeing electrical phenomena for what they are, actually lends mainstream cosmology a big helping hand! A lot of what were previously 'dark matters' now have vistas opened up before them for science to explore. Twin Suns, Oort Clouds and wormholes may actually fit well within an Electric Universe model.
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
 

thinker

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#48
Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
I guess as long as all the bodies in a system have a charge similar to its surroundings and the system is stable the gravity is the main driver. As soon as there's a charge difference, or a body travels between areas with a different charge we start seeing electrical influences. The bigger the charge difference the bigger the influence.
 

SeekinTruth

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#49
thinker said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
I guess as long as all the bodies in a system have a charge similar to its surroundings and the system is stable the gravity is the main driver. As soon as there's a charge difference, or a body travels between areas with a different charge we start seeing electrical influences. The bigger the charge difference the bigger the influence.
These are pretty much my thoughts, as well. That's what I've gathered from those more knowledgeable discussing these things. Don't know the details, though, where the devil is always found. :P
 

Jefferson

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#50
Interesting show - just listened to it.

Wallace refers to the "squatter man" around 42:00 or so.
Here are some images:
_http://thehiddenrecords.com/images/dogon-squatter-man-petroglyph-orion-Anthony-Peratt.jpg

"plasma discharge phenomena" - as Horns of Moses explains well.

As Joe mentioned, these ancients had better knowledge of the universe than NASA does :lol:
 

John G

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#51
Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
This actually came up recently for me on an Amazon religion forum. Someone brought up dark energy and dark matter for some silly relationship with God but someone else mentioned the Thunderbolts.info site so I kind of ended up getting a little more detailed than my original dark energy/dark matter post.

http://www.amazon.com/forum/christianity/ref=cm_cd_pg_oldest?_encoding=UTF8&authToken=&cdForum=Fx77WQHU8YS50Z&cdPage=1&cdSort=newest&cdThread=Tx108BBKNR74SG9

I actually like the Electric Universe ideas but they actually relate to dark matter/dark energy ideas too. When I said I like dark matter for the 3 or 4 to one ratio (via bullet cluster/WMAP observations) not for galactic rotations (10 to 100 to one ratio dark matter to ordinary matter required), I had Electric Universe ideas in mind for galaxy rotations (which in my mind relate to dark energy).

Here's the same guy (Tony Smith) I linked to before for dark energy and dark matter with another dark energy/dark matter link that has Birkeland current pictures from the thunderbolts.info site you mention:

http://www.tony5m17h.net/AngMomMassMagMom.html

Most of my knowledge of Wallace Thornhill and the Thunderbolts Project came via websites owned by physicist Arkadiusz Jadczyk and his wife Laura. They own a news site where they did a radio interview of Thornhill:

http://www.sott.net/article/272013-SOTT-Talk-Radio-The-Electric-Universe-An-interview-with-Wallace-Thornhill

Thornhill from that interview: "the longitudinal electric force was of profound importance... But in the electric universe where you understand gravity as an electrical phenomenon "

It relates to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Longitudinal_wave

... longitudinal plasma waves and longitudinal electromagnetic waves are similar... the appearance of longitudinal waves in such a case does not in anyway contradict Maxwell's equation. In fact to obtain the waves, you use Maxwell's equations...

back to me: The full symmetry group for Maxwell's equations is the conformal group which also contains the rotations, boosts and translations for gravity. Then add in:

http://www.tony5m17h.net/topolophys.html

"In American Journal of Physics 39 (1971) 901-904,
David Finkelstein showed that in Unimodular Relativity
the Cosmological Constant is an unavoidable Lagrange
Multiplier beloging to a constraint that expresses
the existence of a Fundamental Volume Element of
Spacetime Hypervolume at every point of Spacetime.
Unimodular SL(4) is related to SU(2,2) which is
isomorphic to the Conformal Group Spin(2,4). "

and you have the same math handling longitudinal EM waves, gravity, and the cosmological constant (aka dark energy). Fitting in regular EM is actually a bit complicated however (it adds in along with the nuclear forces).
So basically I think Ark and Tony's use of conformal gravity handles longitudinal photons so it's kind of semantics whether you are calling it gravity or EM though it more directly math-wise extends from gravity but it also might directly handle some solutions for Maxwell's equations.
 
#52
Wal Thornhill: Electric Comets & Asteroids | EU Workshop

recently on youtube

Enjoy Wal Thornhill's presentation from the EU Workshop, November 14-16, 2014, Phoenix, Arizona. More than any other individual, Wal has given the EU movement its emphasis on direct observation and experiment, in contrast to today’s “modeling” of the physical world through extravagant mathematics. Wal’s six presentations provided a compendium of the things that scientifically curious people need to know in order to see the electric force for what it is. This is the sixth of six talks.
https://youtu.be/HnwqU002w_A
 
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