Show #46: The Electric Universe - Wallace Thornhill Interview

Niall

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thinker said:
voyageur said:
The Oort system of rubble was not discussed (or i don't remember), which could well account for the influence of interlopers caused by the sun’s twin, if it exists.
The Oort cloud was a theory that was needed to explain the origin of comets in dirty snowball comet theory. I don't think it was ever confirmed by observation and electrical theory doesn't really need it for anything.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/special_edition/100116_se_teu1.htm

There's always a Kuiper belt though that Pluto is part of, but this is much closer to Sun than theorized Oort cloud.
Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. The 'Electric Universe' concept, in and of itself, isn't the whole banana either. Celestial mechanics is still sound in many respects. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build spacecraft that work as they're programmed to do. Acknowledging the role of plasma and seeing electrical phenomena for what they are, actually lends mainstream cosmology a big helping hand! A lot of what were previously 'dark matters' now have vistas opened up before them for science to explore. Twin Suns, Oort Clouds and wormholes may actually fit well within an Electric Universe model.
 

Approaching Infinity

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Kniall said:
thinker said:
voyageur said:
The Oort system of rubble was not discussed (or i don't remember), which could well account for the influence of interlopers caused by the sun’s twin, if it exists.
The Oort cloud was a theory that was needed to explain the origin of comets in dirty snowball comet theory. I don't think it was ever confirmed by observation and electrical theory doesn't really need it for anything.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/archives/special_edition/100116_se_teu1.htm

There's always a Kuiper belt though that Pluto is part of, but this is much closer to Sun than theorized Oort cloud.
Well, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. The 'Electric Universe' concept, in and of itself, isn't the whole banana either. Celestial mechanics is still sound in many respects. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build spacecraft that work as they're programmed to do. Acknowledging the role of plasma and seeing electrical phenomena for what they are, actually lends mainstream cosmology a big helping hand! A lot of what were previously 'dark matters' now have vistas opened up before them for science to explore. Twin Suns, Oort Clouds and wormholes may actually fit well within an Electric Universe model.
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
 

thinker

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Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
I guess as long as all the bodies in a system have a charge similar to its surroundings and the system is stable the gravity is the main driver. As soon as there's a charge difference, or a body travels between areas with a different charge we start seeing electrical influences. The bigger the charge difference the bigger the influence.
 

SeekinTruth

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thinker said:
Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
I guess as long as all the bodies in a system have a charge similar to its surroundings and the system is stable the gravity is the main driver. As soon as there's a charge difference, or a body travels between areas with a different charge we start seeing electrical influences. The bigger the charge difference the bigger the influence.
These are pretty much my thoughts, as well. That's what I've gathered from those more knowledgeable discussing these things. Don't know the details, though, where the devil is always found. :P
 

Jefferson

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Interesting show - just listened to it.

Wallace refers to the "squatter man" around 42:00 or so.
Here are some images:
_http://thehiddenrecords.com/images/dogon-squatter-man-petroglyph-orion-Anthony-Peratt.jpg

"plasma discharge phenomena" - as Horns of Moses explains well.

As Joe mentioned, these ancients had better knowledge of the universe than NASA does :lol:
 

John G

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Approaching Infinity said:
Yeah, it seems that standard celestial mechanics works for 'medium-scale' phenomena (e.g., bodies within a solar system), but can't account for large-scale ones (e.g., galaxy formation/dyanimcs), which has led to dark matter/energy theories that are perhaps not necessary when electrical factors are acknowledged. It would be interesting to know how exactly this all works -- where is the point where electrical influences trump gravitational, for example) -- but first scientists need to get on board.
This actually came up recently for me on an Amazon religion forum. Someone brought up dark energy and dark matter for some silly relationship with God but someone else mentioned the Thunderbolts.info site so I kind of ended up getting a little more detailed than my original dark energy/dark matter post.

http://www.amazon.com/forum/christianity/ref=cm_cd_pg_oldest?_encoding=UTF8&authToken=&cdForum=Fx77WQHU8YS50Z&cdPage=1&cdSort=newest&cdThread=Tx108BBKNR74SG9

I actually like the Electric Universe ideas but they actually relate to dark matter/dark energy ideas too. When I said I like dark matter for the 3 or 4 to one ratio (via bullet cluster/WMAP observations) not for galactic rotations (10 to 100 to one ratio dark matter to ordinary matter required), I had Electric Universe ideas in mind for galaxy rotations (which in my mind relate to dark energy).

Here's the same guy (Tony Smith) I linked to before for dark energy and dark matter with another dark energy/dark matter link that has Birkeland current pictures from the thunderbolts.info site you mention:

http://www.tony5m17h.net/AngMomMassMagMom.html

Most of my knowledge of Wallace Thornhill and the Thunderbolts Project came via websites owned by physicist Arkadiusz Jadczyk and his wife Laura. They own a news site where they did a radio interview of Thornhill:

http://www.sott.net/article/272013-SOTT-Talk-Radio-The-Electric-Universe-An-interview-with-Wallace-Thornhill

Thornhill from that interview: "the longitudinal electric force was of profound importance... But in the electric universe where you understand gravity as an electrical phenomenon "

It relates to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Longitudinal_wave

... longitudinal plasma waves and longitudinal electromagnetic waves are similar... the appearance of longitudinal waves in such a case does not in anyway contradict Maxwell's equation. In fact to obtain the waves, you use Maxwell's equations...

back to me: The full symmetry group for Maxwell's equations is the conformal group which also contains the rotations, boosts and translations for gravity. Then add in:

http://www.tony5m17h.net/topolophys.html

"In American Journal of Physics 39 (1971) 901-904,
David Finkelstein showed that in Unimodular Relativity
the Cosmological Constant is an unavoidable Lagrange
Multiplier beloging to a constraint that expresses
the existence of a Fundamental Volume Element of
Spacetime Hypervolume at every point of Spacetime.
Unimodular SL(4) is related to SU(2,2) which is
isomorphic to the Conformal Group Spin(2,4). "

and you have the same math handling longitudinal EM waves, gravity, and the cosmological constant (aka dark energy). Fitting in regular EM is actually a bit complicated however (it adds in along with the nuclear forces).
So basically I think Ark and Tony's use of conformal gravity handles longitudinal photons so it's kind of semantics whether you are calling it gravity or EM though it more directly math-wise extends from gravity but it also might directly handle some solutions for Maxwell's equations.
 

wodasi

Jedi
Wal Thornhill: Electric Comets & Asteroids | EU Workshop

recently on youtube

Enjoy Wal Thornhill's presentation from the EU Workshop, November 14-16, 2014, Phoenix, Arizona. More than any other individual, Wal has given the EU movement its emphasis on direct observation and experiment, in contrast to today’s “modeling” of the physical world through extravagant mathematics. Wal’s six presentations provided a compendium of the things that scientifically curious people need to know in order to see the electric force for what it is. This is the sixth of six talks.
https://youtu.be/HnwqU002w_A
 

Voyageur

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Perhaps this Thornhill talk was previously discussed as it was observed the other day; Wal here in recognition of Velikovsky. At one point it reminded me of this:

Q: (Ark) Maybe this Flat Earth theory is created to distract from the Hollow Earth theory?

(Pierre) It can be flat and hollow. [laughter]

A: No there is more "truth" to the "Hollow Earth" theory!

Q: (L) As in underground bases and 4th density planes of existence under the Earth?

A: Yes

Q: (Perceval) We have no problem with that one. We can run with that one.

(L) Huh?

(Perceval) We're willing to entertain the Hollow Earth theory.

(L) Yes.

(Perceval) Just not flat. Hollow, yes. Flat, no. [laughter]

(Alana) Can it be hollow if it's flat? {:-D}

(Timótheos) Like a tire!

Wal Thornhill: Velikovsky’s Astrophysics | EU2017

The above was about bases occupying parts of our inner sphere, however, here Wal spends some time talking about Dipoles and gravitational polarization - bringing up the theory of hollow earth including other cosmic spheres such as our sun (starts around 38:00 - for that aspect). Interesting discussion overall.

 

Voyageur

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There are two other things that were viewed along these lines. One was titled 'NEW VIEWS OF THE INTERSTELLAR MEDIUM' — Michael Clarage.

This certainly brings to focus the 'as above so below' thinking in terms of cells, atoms and cosmic spheres and filaments. I don't know, nor do they, yet what we are looking at is pretty damn incredible which ever way one sees it. At a couple of points the juxtaposition of images was uncanny. This also takes the viewer inside the lab of the SAFIRE project.

Dr. Michael Clarage talks about his work with SAFIRE from a more philosophical perspective – what an empiricist might ponder outside the lab. He offers some intriguing if not startling observations about the astronomical and the biological, the dead and the living universe.
Please note: we will NOT be posting all of the EU2018 UK talks, just three that relate to the SAFIRE Project, an experiment near and dear to our hearts. See the link in the text box under the video to find out more about the rest of the talks.

The last one viewed was a November posted talk from this year by Rupert Sheldrake:

Rupert Sheldrake - Is The Sun Conscious?

This weeks The Truth Perspective: Unlocking the Secrets of Consciousness, Hyperdimensional Attractors and Frog Brains (do have a listen if you can) looks at consciousness from a different view, and yet somehow relates to where Sheldrake goes, and this in turn is somewhat related to what Clarage touches on - and what the C's often point to, osit.

It is damn humbling.

Published on Nov 8, 2018

Recorded at Reconnect 2018 (7th July, Bath UK). Other talks from the same event available as video-on-demand here: https://www.electricuniverseuk.eu/videos Speculative and thought provoking talk which asks us to look beyond the strict confines of scientific materialism and consider how the consciousness of stellar bodies (such as our Sun) is not only of anthropological or cultural interest but a valid field of enquiry in modern philosophy, psychology, cosmology, and neuroscience. Other talks from the same event available as video-on-demand here: https://www.electricuniverseuk.com/vi...
YouTube


Also had a listen again to the original talk here with Joe and Niall interviewing Wal.
 
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herondancer

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Thanks for the Sheldrake video. I like his ideas a lot, and it's good to see he feels it's possible to broach them seriously.

A long time ago I read a very interesting and unsettling science fiction book that had been published in 1937 called Star Maker, by Olaf Stapledon. It anticipated many of Sheldrake's themes

From Wikipedia:
A single human narrator from England is transported out of his body via unexplained means. He realizes he is able to explore space and other planets. After exploring a civilization on another planet at a level of development similar to our own that existed millions of years ago thousands of light years from Earth (the "Other Earth") in some detail, his mind merges with that of one of its inhabitants, and as they travel together, they are joined by still more minds or group-minds. This snowballing process is paralleled by the expansion of the book's scale, describing more and more planets in less and less detail.

The disembodied travelers encounter many ideas that are interesting from both science-fictional and philosophical points of view. These include the first known instance of what is now called the Dyson shpere; a reference to a scenario closely predicting the later zoo hypothesis or Star Trek's "Prime Directive"; many imaginative descriptions of species, civilizations and methods of warfare; descriptions of the Multiverse; and the idea that the stars and even pre-galactic are intelligent beings, operating on vast time scales. A key idea is the formation of collective minds from many telepathically linked individuals, on the level of planets, galaxies, and eventually the cosmos itself.

The climax of the book is the "supreme moment of the cosmos", when the cosmical mind (which includes the narrator) attains momentary contact with the titular "Star Maker". The Star Maker is the creator of the universe, but stands in the same relation to it as an artist to his work, and calmly assesses its quality without any feeling for the suffering of its inhabitants. This element makes the novel one of Stapledon's efforts to write "an essay in myth making".

After meeting the Star Maker, the traveler is given a "fantastic myth or dream," in which he observes the Star Maker at work. He discovers that his own cosmos is only one of a vast number, and by no means the most significant. He sees the Star Maker's early work, and he learns that the Star Maker was surprised and intensely interested when some of his early "toy" universes — for example a universe composed entirely of music with no spatial dimensions — displayed "modes of behavior that were not in accord with the canon which he had ordained for them." He sees the Star Maker experimenting with more elaborate universes, which include the traveler's own universe, and a triune universe which closely resembles "Christian orthodoxy" (the three universes respectively being hell, heaven, and reality with presence of a savior). The Star Maker goes on to create "mature" universes of extraordinary complexity, culminating in an "ultimate cosmos," through which the Star Maker fulfills his own eternal destiny as "the ground and crown of all things." Finally, the traveler returns to Earth at the place and time he left, to resume his life there.
It's a wild ride that you can read on Kindle for a buck.

Widely regarded as one of the true classics of science fiction, Star Maker is a poetic and deeply philosophical work. The story details the mental journey of an unnamed narrator who is transported not only to other worlds but also other galaxies and parallel universes, until he eventually becomes part of the "cosmic mind." First published in 1937, Olaf Stapledon's descriptions of alien life are a political commentary on human life in the turbulent inter-war years. The book challenges preconceived notions of intelligence and awareness, and ultimately argues for a broadened perspective that would free us from culturally ingrained thought and our inevitable anthropomorphism. This is the first scholarly edition of a book that influenced such writers as C.S. Lewis and Arthur C. Clarke and which Jorge Luis Borges called "a prodigious novel."
 

Pashalis

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Perhaps this Thornhill talk was previously discussed as it was observed the other day; Wal here in recognition of Velikovsky. At one point it reminded me of this:




Wal Thornhill: Velikovsky’s Astrophysics | EU2017

The above was about bases occupying parts of our inner sphere, however, here Wal spends some time talking about Dipoles and gravitational polarization - bringing up the theory of hollow earth including other cosmic spheres such as our sun (starts around 38:00 - for that aspect). Interesting discussion overall.

Utterly fascinating and interesting! Thanks for sharing! I‘ll have to start reading some of his stuff and Velikovsky’s. I‘m wondering what Arks take on it would be since he is an expert in Physics, Quantum and Gravity stuff.
 

Pashalis

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Utterly fascinating and interesting! Thanks for sharing! I‘ll have to start reading some of his stuff and Velikovsky’s. I‘m wondering what Arks take on it would be since he is an expert in Physics, Quantum and Gravity stuff.
Among the many interesting things Thornhill brings up, as Voyageur brought up, is the idea that pretty much all celestial bodies must be hollow in the inside, and the bodies themselves thus more like shells. In other words: the sun, moon and earth could in fact be hollow according to his reasoning.

Another interesting idea he brings up, in passing, in the following video, is the idea that at the times of the dinosaurs, the earth didn't revolve around our sun but around a "cold" brown dwarf! Which reminded me of the content of this recent post in another thread about gravity and the times of the dinosaurs.

[...]I mean, let’s not forget the massive dinosaurs that couldn’t possibly support their weight nor fit enough food in their small mouths to sustain a metabolism that would be required in our gravity. Things were clearly very different in some ways. I’m not saying that’s the answer to the pyramids. I’m good with the sound waves answer the Cs gave, but I’m willing at least to entertain additional, concurrent possibilities.

Now, Thornhill doesn't strike me as someone who would consider things like that without some concrete data behind it and some concrete reasoning. Having said that, some of the research from him and others in this field might be overstating some electrical phenomena while understating comet-impact like phenomena and how they interact with bodies. I could be wrong though.

In the same video he mentions the work of Anthony Peratt on Petroglyphs around the world with some pretty astounding results. For example, many if not all Petroglyphs are apparently directed in similar ways towards magnetic south and only present in places were a direct or indirect view towards south is possible. One pair of Petroglyphs can apparently be overlaid very exactly, even though they are from very different and far away parts of the world. Like a exact copy, or something on the other side of the planet.

Anthony Peratt discussing Petroglyphs and solar outbursts and plasma physics experiments in the lab.
 
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