Show #47 - American Heart of Darkness: Robert Kirkconnell Interview

Thank you SOTT Talk & Robert for a brilliant show! :) I haven't been following the thread on this book which made this especially refreshing to hear. It's true - there isn't an area where pathology doesn't touch. The entire system is set up in a way to benefit psychopaths & characteropaths.
 
That was a great show all! :thup:
I am moving American Heart of Darkness to the top of the reading list.
 
Excellent and interesting show, thanks guys. I wasn't aware that he based his book on PP, that's another onto the pile :)
 
Another great show.

Robert and caller Don briefly discussed the book 'Lies my teacher told me Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong' by James W. Loewen.

Loewen said this about Woodrow Wilson (also discussed during the show):

What we did not learn about Woodrow Wilson is even more remarkable. When I ask my college students to tell me what they recall about President Wilson, they respond with enthusiasm. They say that Wilson led our country reluctantly into World War I and after the war led the struggle nationally and internationally to establish the League of Nations. They associate Wilson with progressive causes like women's suffrage. A handful of students recall the Wilson administration's Palmer raids against left-wing unions. But my students seldom know or speak about two antidemocratic policies that Wilson carried out: his racial segregation of the federal government and his military interventions in foreign countries.
Under Wilson, the United States intervened in Latin America more often than at any other time in our history. We landed troops in Mexico in 1914, Haiti in 1915, the Dominican Republic in 1916, Mexico again in 1916, Cuba in 1917, and Panama in 1918. Throughout his administration Wilson maintained forces in Nicaragua, using them to determine Nicaragua's president and to force passage of a treaty preferential to the United States.
In 1917 Woodrow Wilson took on a major power when he started sending secret monetary aid to the "White" side of the Russian civil war. In the summer of 1918 he authorized a naval blockade of the Soviet Union and sent expeditionary forces to Murmansk, Archangel, and Vladivostok to help overthrow the Russian Revolution. With the blessing of Britain and France, and in a joint command with Japanese soldiers. American forces penetrated westward from Vladivostok to Lake Baikal, supporting Czech and White Russian forces that had declared an anticommunist government headquartered at Omsk. After briefly maintaining front lines as far as west as the Volga, the White Russian forces disintegrated by the end of 1919, and our troops finally left Vladivostok on April 1, 1920. ...

Wilson's invasions of Latin America are better known than his Russian adventure. Textbooks do cover some of them, and it is fascinating to watch textbook authors attempt to justify these episodes. Any accurate portrayal of the invasions could not possibly show Wilson or the United States in a favorable light. With hindsight we know that Wilson's interventions in Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Nicaragua set the stage for the dictators Batista, Trujillo, the Duvaliers, and the Somozas, whose legacies still reverberate. Even in the 1910's, most of the invasions were unpopular in this country and provoked a torrent of criticism abroad. ...

His progressive legislative accomplishments in just his first two years, including tariff reform, an income tax, the Federal Reserve Act, and the Workingmen's Compensation Act, are almost unparalleled. Wilson's speeches on behalf of self-determination stirred the world, even if his actions did not live up to to his words. ...

Woodrow Wilson gets similarly whitewashed. Although some history textbooks disclose more than others about the seamy underside of Wilson's presidency, all eighteen books reviewed share a common tone: respectful, patriotic, even adulatory. Ironically, Wilson was widely despised in the 1920's. Only after World War II did he come to be viewed kindly by policy makers and historians. Our postwar bipartisan foreign policy, one of far-reaching interventions sheathed in humanitarian explanations, was "shaped decisively by the ideology and the international program developed by the Wilson Administration," according to Gordon Levin Jr.
 
Thanks for another great show! Years ago I read a book called Sally Hemmings, a historical novel by Barbara Chase-Riboud, written in 1979. Sally Hemmings was the slave of Jefferson who according to the novel, chose to stay with him, even when they went to France and by French law was a free person and could have gained her freedom. She had at least one child with him. DNA tests years later proved the validity of the author's claims. It was shocking at the time to see the hypocracy, a founding father owning slaves and a real eye-opener.
 
Hi,
I have just finished listening podcast "American Hear of Darkness" and have few comments.
I just would like You to know that I am not trying to make black PR for Robert Kirkconnell but expressing my observation.

I had forced myself to listen to all the show. Forced, because I had felt negative emotions after approx. 30 mins of listening. That is my problem of course :). Robert was saying everything what is available in materials strongly recommended in this forum referring to ponerology, psychopaths, mind control, CIA etc. That is all what is discussed here in this forum.

For me it was like hypnotic leading. He said what You would like to here. He was saying things confirming Your reality, Your beliefs.
Not much details in this show.
I had this impression that if You made compilation of all Your shows (maybe except diet which was not mentioned there) You may get script build around key words and key concepts. Then use Your own (Forum, Laura, Moderators) formulations, way of thinking, typical associations with concepts and You may loop conversation around it and talk for it hours and not saying too much details You may say: "what I think..." , "it seems to me...", "I will not be surprised if something bla bla bla"... "probably this and that". Then one of radio moderator will add something confirming this thread, I say "Yes, correctly", and we go on.

During this show I have imagined how to make You guys manipulated and I thought that if somebody would like to go inside to Your circle he/she would have to say what You would like to hear. :). Somebody would have to confirm first by some factual acts that he/she is on the same side. Words are not enough. You have decided that Robert's book is worth to talk about. You are in general quite gentle to Your guests and not trying to challenge too much their concepts so was here. Here there was in a fact nothing to challenge (or so I think).

What I did not like during the show, there was one question from Joe about leaders: "what do we need leaders for" (1hr15min)?
I am not sure why this question was not answered. Why? Was that not enough elaborated subject yet?
Finally Joe answered this himself (approx. 1hr 16min)

You see, I am fed up with believing. I appreciate facts. I already feel sick when I realize that with this Forum and Laura's work I so often become so ... Believer. This is not about person Robert Kirkconnell. I just do not want to have any authorities. I want to grow to the point were I can see things myself. I want but I am not on that level. It takes a lot of energy to find things Yourself.

You have legitimated Robert to be one of You. What kind of consequences arise from that?
And coming to the "leaders question": we are all leaders, we shall be, we shall decide, I shall decide, I shall have knowledge sufficient to be able to decide, I shall have personality developed in the most possible way to be the leader of myself. So that is it.
mikel
 
Mikel said:
Hi,
I have just finished listening podcast "American Hear of Darkness" and have few comments.
I just would like You to know that I am not trying to make black PR for Robert Kirkconnell but expressing my observation.

I had forced myself to listen to all the show. Forced, because I had felt negative emotions after approx. 30 mins of listening. That is my problem of course :). Robert was saying everything what is available in materials strongly recommended in this forum referring to ponerology, psychopaths, mind control, CIA etc. That is all what is discussed here in this forum.

For me it was like hypnotic leading. He said what You would like to here. He was saying things confirming Your reality, Your beliefs.
Not much details in this show.
I had this impression that if You made compilation of all Your shows (maybe except diet which was not mentioned there) You may get script build around key words and key concepts. Then use Your own (Forum, Laura, Moderators) formulations, way of thinking, typical associations with concepts and You may loop conversation around it and talk for it hours and not saying too much details You may say: "what I think..." , "it seems to me...", "I will not be surprised if something bla bla bla"... "probably this and that". Then one of radio moderator will add something confirming this thread, I say "Yes, correctly", and we go on.

During this show I have imagined how to make You guys manipulated and I thought that if somebody would like to go inside to Your circle he/she would have to say what You would like to hear. :). Somebody would have to confirm first by some factual acts that he/she is on the same side. Words are not enough. You have decided that Robert's book is worth to talk about. You are in general quite gentle to Your guests and not trying to challenge too much their concepts so was here. Here there was in a fact nothing to challenge (or so I think).

What I did not like during the show, there was one question from Joe about leaders: "what do we need leaders for" (1hr15min)?
I am not sure why this question was not answered. Why? Was that not enough elaborated subject yet?
Finally Joe answered this himself (approx. 1hr 16min)

You see, I am fed up with believing. I appreciate facts. I already feel sick when I realize that with this Forum and Laura's work I so often become so ... Believer. This is not about person Robert Kirkconnell. I just do not want to have any authorities. I want to grow to the point were I can see things myself. I want but I am not on that level. It takes a lot of energy to find things Yourself.

You have legitimated Robert to be one of You. What kind of consequences arise from that?
And coming to the "leaders question": we are all leaders, we shall be, we shall decide, I shall decide, I shall have knowledge sufficient to be able to decide, I shall have personality developed in the most possible way to be the leader of myself. So that is it.
mikel

So, you experienced negative emotions while listening to how both sets of researchers have come to similar conclusions and similar ways of seeing the subject of the American government? You suggest that such a situation could come about because of manipulation rather than quality of research or objectivity? I am a bit confused at what you are trying to say. The best thing that I took from this show is how people can come together and break down barriers, both in this communuity and at a wider societal level, but you seem to be focused here on 'us and them'.
 
Mikel, why don't you just ask Bob yourself about your concerns, since his was the last post here before yours.
 
Yeap. Right. Thanks - it is much simpler.

Anyway I am following here my feeling and I am not saying that I am right. I can force myself to feel different but the fact is that I feel what I feel.

1. Bob, why have You not answered on the "leaders question" in the show (1hr15min)?

2. Do You want Joe, Kniall and Laura to like You? And if Yes why?

3. Would You like to be perceived as an authority in the field of political ponerology?

4. Do You think this Forum is important place for You to be? And if Yes then why?

I am not sorry for this questions. I am not intending to offend You Bob although I am asking private questions.
 
Hi Mikel and no, you don't offend me at all. You are making me think, which is a good thing. I am not sure I have an answer to the question about why we need leaders at all. I am thinking about it though. I do not consider myself an expert at anything except marksmanship for which I was awarded an expert ribbon in the military, but that was many years ago. I am an old G.I. who was exposed to evil and have been trying to make sense of it for a long time. Upon reading Ponerology I found something that made sense about evil in politics and so I included the concept in my book as a plausible explanation for some of the evil things that have been happening for millennia. I would not present nor do I consider myself an authority on anything. There are some things I know well, but there is so much out there to learn. I spent a good part of my life researching my book which has been well received. I consider the authorities to be the brave souls who wrote the books and lived the lives that I referred to in my book. It gives me faith that there are so many courageous people in the world. That is what I am interested in. I do make an effort not to quibble with people because I find it distracts me from my purpose, especially when I mostly agree with them.

Sure, I would like for Joe, Kniall, and Laura to like me because I like to be liked. I must admit, however, that I do not know Joe and Kniall at all and had not talked to them before the show, that I know of. I would assume that they are on the forum but I really don't know what names they go by. Laura I remember because she edited the above book, and she is "Laura" on the forum. It seemed when we did the show that everyone was somehow on the same sheet of music, and I am not sure how that happened. I don't think anyone was playing along with the others at all, and I don't see how we could do that. I am very interested in what these people know and also the info which they know how to access.

The forum is important to me because I find a lot of smart, knowledgeable people on it who are interested in my book and I appreciate that! Thanks for asking Mikel.
 
Been listening to Dr. King's speeches and reading his writing all day, and I am still in awe at the metaphysical power he had. It was the same power that every transformational leader has had for millennia. It is the power of moral authority, that power that all of us can feel and we know is right. It is intuitive that a healthy, happy, educated people are going to be productive.

Dr. King talked about America's best young people being sent to kill and be killed and how this destroys the country -- napalming women and children, killing by the millions.... And here we are today. We have put our best efforts into destruction and squandered our most talented people on the farcical notion that we can kill for peace.

Yes, it was psychopaths and characteropaths that have taken over the government, but we went along with it. Just about every time I talk to an audience I almost always hear "But, what can we do about it? We are powerless..." and I know that whatever I suggest can be done will be met with resistance. I usually reply with something like "how did Gandhi take on the British Empire and win? ..." I explore metaphysical power and try to let those among the group that "get it" to come up with the answers. I do, however, suspect that the next day most are back to the way they thought before we started to talk.

I do have to say that at least some people are listening. Americans are starting to understand that something is very wrong. They are not really ready to do anything about it right now, but the time will come. Many of us might not see a change in direction in our life times, but it will come. What we do now is important even though we might not see the fruits of our efforts.
 
I'm curious, Mikel: what do you think is the source of your extreme suspicion? Could you explain, perhaps, what kinds of actual thoughts/rationales are behind it?
 
Thank You Robert for answer.

Laura - there is no rationale behind my suspicions... unfortunately. It is my "feeling". Sorry. I have seen whole situation with Robert like that: we are meeting cool guy who thinks, do thinks and talk like we do.
For me it looked like guys have dropped the guard and lost their skepticism or maybe better world distance.
I know that it is not nice to say it in front of Robert. Sorry Robert.
I am not sure. This could be my big ego.
I was just afraid that the guys had hypnotized themselves like sometimes we do when we meet someone who we think is our friend from the first sight. I am lonely in my world view and I know how I feel when I meet somebody who knows at least a bit of things which I have learned here - it is such a joy to share same view. So by analogy I see myself in them. And I think I would be ... afraid? when I would feel some sudden emotions towards somebody and would ask myself questions why why why it hapend for what reason?

Robert, this is not so much about You as about myself - You see? :) I wish You good.

Laura, I have decided to post that due to my feeling. I do not know what part in that took my ego and my self importance. If You think it is paranoiac behaviour - I also thought about that. I do not feel sure in what I am doing now.

May I ask question to Joe and Niall:
1. Have You felt excited about discovering Robert and do You think that You could enact "halo effect"?
2. Do You feel lonely?

Am I allowed to ask such questions?
I hope it is not offensive.
Greetings,
Mikel
 
Let me just say, Mikel, that anybody who comes to this forum and exhibits good manners and intellectual competence is a welcome addition. Joe and Niall do a radio show and we have objectives with that show which are to talk about those things that we think are important as well as, sometimes, maybe push the envelope a bit. We like Robert K's book, we like to discuss the topic here and on the radio. Robert has experiences we don't have and is willing to share those experiences and his research. So what is your problem? Why are you getting yourself all knotted up with ideas that someone is "moving in" or "taking over" or whatever???

Let me repeat: that anybody who comes to this forum and exhibits good manners and intellectual competence is a welcome addition.
 
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