I found this an interesting interview as well. In the end though it brings me back to how do you tell someone about the C's, FOTCM and the deeper teachings imparted. You can't really. I think people find there own way here. There is an internal rightness about it where "words" are not necessary.
Show#82 - Who was Georges Gurdjieff? Interview with William Patrick Patterson
- Thread starter Niall
- Start date
Great show. An externally considerate and smart move by Laura to play the "blond" for a moment. At his age and with health issues, there would be no point to "debate" the topic that the discussion was clearly heading towards. Explaining how e.g. the C's act as an inspiration for the work we do here would have just opened a can of worms that wouldn't have been productive, IMO.
I might have been imagining, but I think he knew exactly what was going on, and "winked his eye" with his last comments.
I might have been imagining, but I think he knew exactly what was going on, and "winked his eye" with his last comments.
don't know how many here like recreational arithmetics (they are fun and very intriguing) but as a side note, it was very surprising to have Gurdjieff mentioned in a video about cyclic digits (for the prime 7 and some others) here _http://youtu.be/WUlaUalgxqI
AnotherIdiot
The Force is Strong With This One
Sott Talk Radio Show #82 refers: interview with William Patrick Patterson.
During the course of the interview Mr Patterson was asked, “Do you see this imminent destruction before us now?” And, “What do you think he [Gurdjieff] meant by certain cosmic events?”
Mr Patterson was non-committal in his answers to these questions.
The term 'imminent destruction' conjures up images of catastrophe. We do know that Gurdjieff directly, in recorded conversations, and also in his tome 'All & Everything', specifically referred to the destruction of Atlantis, and in the voice of Beelzebub he narrates that the civilization of Egypt was seeded by individuals with highly developed reason who came from Atlantis, who foreseeing the events that were to come, and to preserve their knowledge, left Atlantis to set up communities elsewhere on the planet, in such places as Ethiopia and then Egypt. He describes, for example the original Sphinx that existed in Atlantis, that differed in detail from the later Sphinx in Egypt.
Gurdjieff also refers in All & Everything to a second catastrophe that came in the form of mighty winds that created the Gobi and Saharan deserts. I have to wonder whether Göbekli Tepe in Turkey was covered by these massive sand storms and not deliberately buried as is surmised by archaeologists.
So the question therefore is: did Gurdjieff specifically refer anywhere to the possibility of another catastrophe in the future? I think that he most definitely did, through the voice of Beelzebub, in the chapter XXII of All & Everything, titled “Beelzebub's First Time in Tibet”. Here is the pertinent excerpt, where Beelzebub is talking to his grandson Hassein, with his servant Ahoon in attendance:
“Here I must say something about an exceedingly strange thing, which I constated, closely connected with just that part of the surface of your planet which is now called Tibet.
“At that period when I was passing through Tibet for the first time, it's heights were indeed also unusually far above the surface of the Earth, but they did not differ particularly from similar elevations on other continents and on the same continent Ashhark or Asia, of which Tibet was a part.
“But when during my sixth and last personal stay on the planet Earth there, my way again took me through those, for me, extremely memorable places, I just then constated that in the interval of just a few score of their centuries, the whole of that locality had projected so far from the planet that no heights of any other continent could even be compared to them.
“For instance, the chief range of that elevated region through which we had then passed, namely, the range of elevations which the beings there call 'a mountain range', had in the interval projected so far from the planet that some of it's peaks are now the loftiest among all the abnormal projections of that vainly-long-suffering-planet. And if you climbed them, you could possibly with the aid of a Teskooana 'see clearly' the centre of the opposite side of that peculiar planet.
“When I first constated that strange phenomenon occurring on that remarkably peculiar planet of yours, I at once thought that in all probability it contained the germ for the arising of some subsequent misfortune on a great cosmic scale, and when I afterwards collected statistics concerning the abnormal phenomenon, this first apprehension of mine very soon more and more grew in me.
“And it grew chiefly because, in my statistics, one item concerning that phenomenon there showed an increase in every decade.
“The said item concerning those Tibetan elevations referred just to this: which of the terrestrial, as they are called 'planetary tremors', or as this is expressed by your favourites, 'earthquakes', occur to that planet due to these excessively lofty elevations.
“Although planetary tremors or earthquakes occur to that planet of yours from other interplanetary disharmonies also, that have arisen in consequence of the two already mentioned Transapalnian perturbations, the causes of which I will sometime explain to you, nevertheless most of the planetary tremors there, and especially during recent centuries, have occurred solely on account of those excessive elevations.
“And they occur because, in consequence of those excessive elevations, the atmosphere also of that planet has acquired and continues to acquire in its presence the same . . . that is to say, what is called 'Blastegoklornian-circumference' of the atmosphere of the planet Earth acquired in certain places and continues to acquire an excessively projecting materialized presence, for what is called the 'reciprocal-blending-of-the-results-of-all-the-planets-of-the-given-system'; with the result that during the motion of the planet, and in the presence of what is called the 'common-system-harmony,' it's atmosphere at certain times 'hooks on,' as it were, to the atmosphere of other planets or comets of the same system.
“And owing to these 'hookings on' there occur in the corresponding places of the common presence of that planet of yours just those said planetary tremors or quakes.
“I must also explain to you that the region of the common presence of the planet where such planetary tremors occur on this account, depends upon the position occupied by the planet itself in the process of the common-system-harmonious-movement, in relation to other concentrations belonging to the same system.
“Be that as it may, if this abnormal growth of the Tibetan mountains continues thus in the future, a great catastrophe on a general cosmic scale is sooner or later inevitable.
“However, when the menace I see becomes already evident, no doubt the Most High, Most Sacred Cosmic Individual will at the proper time take the proper precautions.”
“If you please, if you please, your Right Reverence.” Ahoon interrupted Beelzebub, and rattled off the following:
“Allow me to report to you, your Right Reverence, some information which I happened to pick up concerning just that growth of those same Tibetan mountains about which you have deigned to speak.
“Just before our flight from the planet Karatas,” continued Ahoon, “I had the pleasure of meeting the Archangel Viloyer, the Governor of our solar system, and His Splendiferousness condescended to recognize me and to speak to me.
“Perhaps you remember, your Right Reverence, that while we were existing on the planet Zernakoor, His Splendiferousness Archangel Viloyer was still an ordinary angel, and used often to drop in to see us?
“So when His Splendiferousness, during our conversation, heard the name of that solar system where we were exiled, he told me that at the last most high and most sacred reception of finally returned cosmic results, a certain Individual, Saint Lama, had had the privilege of personally presenting at the feet of our ENDLESS UNI-BEING, in the presence of all the Most High Individuals, a certain petition regarding the abnormal growth of the elevation of some planet--it seems just of that solar system—and having received this request, our ALL-GRACIOUS-ENDLESSNESS immediately ordered Archangel Looisos to be dispatched to that solar system where, as one familiar with that solar system, he might there on the spot clarify the causes of the manifestation of the said projections and take appropriate measures.
“That is why His Conformity Archangel Looisos is at the present time hastily winding up his current affairs in order to set off there.”
“So, dear Ahoon,” commented Beelzebub, and he added, “Thank you for this information. . . . Glory be to our Creator . . . what you have just said will probably help to destroy in my presence the anxiety which arose in me when I first constated the abnormal growth of those said Tibetan mountains, namely, my anxiety for the complete disappearance from the Universe of the precious memory of our Endlessly Revered Wisest of the Wise, Mullah Nassr Eddin.”
Leaving aside commentary by Orage that All & Everything is like an onion with many layers of meaning, it is clear that the plain surface meaning from this excerpt is that the Earth is facing an extreme danger due to the excessive elevation of the Himalayan mountain range, which can be 'hooked' onto by the atmospheres of other planets or comets, thereby giving the Earth a 'tug'.
The idea of other planetary 'atmospheres' reaching the Earth might have appeared absurd until very recently. However NASA has discovered that Venus has a 'tail' that reaches as far as the Earth's orbit. We do not at present see Venus's 'stringy' tail because, according to the Electrical Universe theorists, it is not in 'glow mode'. Similarly the Earth itself has an electro-magnetic tail that reaches out as far as the orbit of Mars, and according to the Electrical Universe theorists, could be responsible for the dust storms on Mars, which they argue are an electrical, not convection, phenomenon. Comets of course have visible tails, and are highly charged electrically. The following link from Thunderbolts discusses planetary tails: https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2014/08/08/16273/
In the excerpt above Beelzebub refers to the 'common-system-harmonious-movement' of the planets. The suggestion here is that the movements of the planets is not random but 'governed' by a harmonious co-ordination. A useful and eye opening book in this regard is ' A Little Book Of Coincidence In The Solar System' by John Martineau (Wooden Books ISBN 1 904263 05 4). Martineau demonstrates how the planet's orbits are geometrically linked to each other. For example, in the chapter called The Kiss of Venus, he explains how the orbits of Earth and Venus are almost perfectly related to the pentagram and phi.
Another useful link, where the relationship between coronal holes on the Sun and geometric relationships of the planets are being studied as a useful predictor of earthquake activity, is Ben Davidson's Earth's Spots Hypothesis at http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/. (Membership required.)
I would like to finish off with a big thank you to the Sott team for your sterling efforts aimed at opening eyes around the planet.
(Sorry about the lack of formatting, I haven't found how to do it for postings.)
During the course of the interview Mr Patterson was asked, “Do you see this imminent destruction before us now?” And, “What do you think he [Gurdjieff] meant by certain cosmic events?”
Mr Patterson was non-committal in his answers to these questions.
The term 'imminent destruction' conjures up images of catastrophe. We do know that Gurdjieff directly, in recorded conversations, and also in his tome 'All & Everything', specifically referred to the destruction of Atlantis, and in the voice of Beelzebub he narrates that the civilization of Egypt was seeded by individuals with highly developed reason who came from Atlantis, who foreseeing the events that were to come, and to preserve their knowledge, left Atlantis to set up communities elsewhere on the planet, in such places as Ethiopia and then Egypt. He describes, for example the original Sphinx that existed in Atlantis, that differed in detail from the later Sphinx in Egypt.
Gurdjieff also refers in All & Everything to a second catastrophe that came in the form of mighty winds that created the Gobi and Saharan deserts. I have to wonder whether Göbekli Tepe in Turkey was covered by these massive sand storms and not deliberately buried as is surmised by archaeologists.
So the question therefore is: did Gurdjieff specifically refer anywhere to the possibility of another catastrophe in the future? I think that he most definitely did, through the voice of Beelzebub, in the chapter XXII of All & Everything, titled “Beelzebub's First Time in Tibet”. Here is the pertinent excerpt, where Beelzebub is talking to his grandson Hassein, with his servant Ahoon in attendance:
“Here I must say something about an exceedingly strange thing, which I constated, closely connected with just that part of the surface of your planet which is now called Tibet.
“At that period when I was passing through Tibet for the first time, it's heights were indeed also unusually far above the surface of the Earth, but they did not differ particularly from similar elevations on other continents and on the same continent Ashhark or Asia, of which Tibet was a part.
“But when during my sixth and last personal stay on the planet Earth there, my way again took me through those, for me, extremely memorable places, I just then constated that in the interval of just a few score of their centuries, the whole of that locality had projected so far from the planet that no heights of any other continent could even be compared to them.
“For instance, the chief range of that elevated region through which we had then passed, namely, the range of elevations which the beings there call 'a mountain range', had in the interval projected so far from the planet that some of it's peaks are now the loftiest among all the abnormal projections of that vainly-long-suffering-planet. And if you climbed them, you could possibly with the aid of a Teskooana 'see clearly' the centre of the opposite side of that peculiar planet.
“When I first constated that strange phenomenon occurring on that remarkably peculiar planet of yours, I at once thought that in all probability it contained the germ for the arising of some subsequent misfortune on a great cosmic scale, and when I afterwards collected statistics concerning the abnormal phenomenon, this first apprehension of mine very soon more and more grew in me.
“And it grew chiefly because, in my statistics, one item concerning that phenomenon there showed an increase in every decade.
“The said item concerning those Tibetan elevations referred just to this: which of the terrestrial, as they are called 'planetary tremors', or as this is expressed by your favourites, 'earthquakes', occur to that planet due to these excessively lofty elevations.
“Although planetary tremors or earthquakes occur to that planet of yours from other interplanetary disharmonies also, that have arisen in consequence of the two already mentioned Transapalnian perturbations, the causes of which I will sometime explain to you, nevertheless most of the planetary tremors there, and especially during recent centuries, have occurred solely on account of those excessive elevations.
“And they occur because, in consequence of those excessive elevations, the atmosphere also of that planet has acquired and continues to acquire in its presence the same . . . that is to say, what is called 'Blastegoklornian-circumference' of the atmosphere of the planet Earth acquired in certain places and continues to acquire an excessively projecting materialized presence, for what is called the 'reciprocal-blending-of-the-results-of-all-the-planets-of-the-given-system'; with the result that during the motion of the planet, and in the presence of what is called the 'common-system-harmony,' it's atmosphere at certain times 'hooks on,' as it were, to the atmosphere of other planets or comets of the same system.
“And owing to these 'hookings on' there occur in the corresponding places of the common presence of that planet of yours just those said planetary tremors or quakes.
“I must also explain to you that the region of the common presence of the planet where such planetary tremors occur on this account, depends upon the position occupied by the planet itself in the process of the common-system-harmonious-movement, in relation to other concentrations belonging to the same system.
“Be that as it may, if this abnormal growth of the Tibetan mountains continues thus in the future, a great catastrophe on a general cosmic scale is sooner or later inevitable.
“However, when the menace I see becomes already evident, no doubt the Most High, Most Sacred Cosmic Individual will at the proper time take the proper precautions.”
“If you please, if you please, your Right Reverence.” Ahoon interrupted Beelzebub, and rattled off the following:
“Allow me to report to you, your Right Reverence, some information which I happened to pick up concerning just that growth of those same Tibetan mountains about which you have deigned to speak.
“Just before our flight from the planet Karatas,” continued Ahoon, “I had the pleasure of meeting the Archangel Viloyer, the Governor of our solar system, and His Splendiferousness condescended to recognize me and to speak to me.
“Perhaps you remember, your Right Reverence, that while we were existing on the planet Zernakoor, His Splendiferousness Archangel Viloyer was still an ordinary angel, and used often to drop in to see us?
“So when His Splendiferousness, during our conversation, heard the name of that solar system where we were exiled, he told me that at the last most high and most sacred reception of finally returned cosmic results, a certain Individual, Saint Lama, had had the privilege of personally presenting at the feet of our ENDLESS UNI-BEING, in the presence of all the Most High Individuals, a certain petition regarding the abnormal growth of the elevation of some planet--it seems just of that solar system—and having received this request, our ALL-GRACIOUS-ENDLESSNESS immediately ordered Archangel Looisos to be dispatched to that solar system where, as one familiar with that solar system, he might there on the spot clarify the causes of the manifestation of the said projections and take appropriate measures.
“That is why His Conformity Archangel Looisos is at the present time hastily winding up his current affairs in order to set off there.”
“So, dear Ahoon,” commented Beelzebub, and he added, “Thank you for this information. . . . Glory be to our Creator . . . what you have just said will probably help to destroy in my presence the anxiety which arose in me when I first constated the abnormal growth of those said Tibetan mountains, namely, my anxiety for the complete disappearance from the Universe of the precious memory of our Endlessly Revered Wisest of the Wise, Mullah Nassr Eddin.”
Leaving aside commentary by Orage that All & Everything is like an onion with many layers of meaning, it is clear that the plain surface meaning from this excerpt is that the Earth is facing an extreme danger due to the excessive elevation of the Himalayan mountain range, which can be 'hooked' onto by the atmospheres of other planets or comets, thereby giving the Earth a 'tug'.
The idea of other planetary 'atmospheres' reaching the Earth might have appeared absurd until very recently. However NASA has discovered that Venus has a 'tail' that reaches as far as the Earth's orbit. We do not at present see Venus's 'stringy' tail because, according to the Electrical Universe theorists, it is not in 'glow mode'. Similarly the Earth itself has an electro-magnetic tail that reaches out as far as the orbit of Mars, and according to the Electrical Universe theorists, could be responsible for the dust storms on Mars, which they argue are an electrical, not convection, phenomenon. Comets of course have visible tails, and are highly charged electrically. The following link from Thunderbolts discusses planetary tails: https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2014/08/08/16273/
In the excerpt above Beelzebub refers to the 'common-system-harmonious-movement' of the planets. The suggestion here is that the movements of the planets is not random but 'governed' by a harmonious co-ordination. A useful and eye opening book in this regard is ' A Little Book Of Coincidence In The Solar System' by John Martineau (Wooden Books ISBN 1 904263 05 4). Martineau demonstrates how the planet's orbits are geometrically linked to each other. For example, in the chapter called The Kiss of Venus, he explains how the orbits of Earth and Venus are almost perfectly related to the pentagram and phi.
Another useful link, where the relationship between coronal holes on the Sun and geometric relationships of the planets are being studied as a useful predictor of earthquake activity, is Ben Davidson's Earth's Spots Hypothesis at http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/. (Membership required.)
I would like to finish off with a big thank you to the Sott team for your sterling efforts aimed at opening eyes around the planet.
(Sorry about the lack of formatting, I haven't found how to do it for postings.)
