Smoking is... good?

[highmystica]

You need to be as careful with e-cigs as normal cigarettes. Some are good, and some are really bad. Perhaps it would be best if you got a chem set and made your own e-juice out of plants you grew at home. Otherwise you are still prone to all the additives pesticides herbacides and what-not they add to the plants in the first place. e-cigs are actually nice in my experience, however I've bought a few bad batches (not counting the key-lime flavored stuff - yuck). I think my native ancestors were onto something about how and when to smoke. Now you may think of them thinking it as them thinking of it as a medicine, but a better word would be tool. Same goes with the cedar smoke or the sage ... Honestly I smoke more in a week than my native ancestors smoked in a year. But in Native lore (not just the salish stuff I really know) these activities kept bad beings away. There is a difference between being poison to those that would eat you and being poison to yourself.

 

[Chad]

Not sure what this means exactly; the headline was basically: E-cig users more likely to quit. I suppose it may be related to the fact that it helps you wean yourself off nicotine, but i also think that that's probably because, as has been said before, but as mentioned in my experience, the delivery method is such that actually, it's nothing like tobacco, hence why it's easier, because somethings missing. And that's why i'm posting it, because perhaps it supports this notion. You're getting less nicotine, in an inferior way, but you're getting just enough and perhaps there's some placebo effect, and so eventually you just stop.

A Longitudinal Study of Electronic Cigarette Use in a Population-based Sample of Adult Smokers: Association with Smoking Cessation and Motivation to Quit.
Biener L1, Hargraves JL2.
Author information
Abstract
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25301815
Aims: Increasingly popular electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) may be the most promising development yet to end cigarette smoking. However, there is sparse evidence that their use promotes cessation. We investigated whether e-cigarette use increases smoking cessation and/or has a deleterious effect on quitting smoking and motivation to quit. Methods: Representative samples of adults in two U.S. metropolitan areas were surveyed in 2011/2012 about their use of novel tobacco products. In 2014, follow-up interviews were conducted with 695 of the 1374 baseline cigarette smokers who had agreed to be re-contacted (retention rate: 51%). The follow-up interview assessed their smoking status and history of electronic cigarette usage. Respondents were categorized as intensive users (used e-cigarettes daily for at least one month), intermittent users (used regularly, but not daily for more than one month), and non-users/triers (used ecigarettes at most once or twice). Results: At follow-up, 23% were intensive users, 29% intermittent users, 18% had used once or twice, and 30% hadn't tried e-cigarettes. Logistic regression controlling for demographics and tobacco dependence indicated that intensive users of e-cigarettes were 6 times as likely as non-users/triers to report that they quit smoking (O.R. 6.07, 95% C.I. 1.11, 33.2). No such relationship was seen for intermittent users. There was a negative association between intermittent e-cigarette use and one of two indicators of motivation to quit at follow-up. Conclusions: Daily use of electronic cigarettes for at least one month is strongly associated with quitting smoking at follow up. Further investigation of the underlying reasons for intensive versus intermittent use will help shed light on the mechanisms underlying the associations between e-cigarette use, motivation to quit and smoking cessation.

© The Author 2014. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco. All rights reserved. For permissions, please e-mail: journals.permissions@oup.com.

 

[nicklebleu]

One has to remember, that the "addictiveness" of cigarettes is only due to an insignificant part by nicotine. Nicotine itself is only very mildly addictive (contrary to mainstream arguments of it being as addictive as heroine - many studies have shown this not to be the case). This is further highlighted by the fact, that there is no market for pure nicotin, which is very cheap. Hardcore addicts will take up any substitute very readily to alleviate their cravings (eg heroin addicts will take benzos and opiates to "bridge" the interval between shots).

Studies in smoking cessation with the aid of nicotine replacement therapy (eg nicotin chewing gum vs placebo chewing gum) have been mostly negative, showing an effect only in the first few weeks. After 6 to 12 months of observation there is no difference in "success rates" between nicotine and placebo. Which further points to the fact that nicotine is not very addictive.

This whole topic is developped in more detail here.

 

[Keit]

Just saw a news report on a major anti-tobacco conference that opened today in Moscow. Putin talked to the Anti-smoking Devil - the WHO’s Director General Margaret Chan. Apparently, they plan on passing even more draconian laws and regulations regarding smoking.

Russia, which has introduced strict anti-smoking legislation, was hosting a five-day World Health Organisation conference that has brought together some 1,500 delegates from signatory countries of the international body’s Framework Convention on Tobacco Control. [...]

Officials at the gathering are pushing for tougher taxes on smoking in a bid to curb a habit that they blame for 6 million deaths worldwide each year.

“I am proud to be the enemy number one of the tobacco industry, that is a badge of honour for me,” the WHO’s Director General Margaret Chan told the gathering.

But it was interesting to see Putin's reaction to Chan's authoritarian demands. He said, that at this time 40% of the Russian adult population smokes. And they do see progress when it comes to curbing smoking (he mentioned like 16% less each year, not sure), and also plan on doing more about it. But they are going to do it carefully and gently, and while respecting personal rights and free will of others. It's obviously a subjective impression, but when Putin said that, Chan looked as if she swallowed a frog. :D

 

[Voyageur]

Just saw a news report on a major anti-tobacco conference that opened today in Moscow. Putin talked to the Anti-smoking Devil - the WHO’s Director General Margaret Chan. Apparently, they plan on passing even more draconian laws and regulations regarding smoking.

[...]
But it was interesting to see Putin's reaction to Chan's authoritarian demands. He said, that at this time 40% of the Russian adult population smokes. And they do see progress when it comes to curbing smoking (he mentioned like 16% less each year, not sure), and also plan on doing more about it. But they are going to do it carefully and gently, and while respecting personal rights and free will of others.

It's obviously a subjective impression, but when Putin said that, Chan looked as if she swallowed a frog. :D

Although not seen, I'll bet Chan did appear as you said.

Perhaps Putin will lean on the import "manufactures" to clean up their act, which will be better for the Russian people, not more taxes.

 

[H-KQGE]

The WHO are ramping up the anti-smoking nonsense on social media... PROPAGANDA ALERT!
http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/ecac-12-ways/tobacco and http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/

 

[goyacobol]

The WHO are ramping up the anti-smoking nonsense on social media... PROPAGANDA ALERT!
http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/ecac-12-ways/tobacco and http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/

Yes, this is the kind of control I was thinking about when I ran across a book about the Nazi smoking campaign in Germany, 1933-45 on a smokers blog.

I posted it November 14, 2013:

_http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,84.msg454476.html#msg454476

I see a repeat performance (Germany was just a practice run?).

 

[Cosmos]

The WHO are ramping up the anti-smoking nonsense on social media... PROPAGANDA ALERT!
http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/ecac-12-ways/tobacco and http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/

Yes, this is the kind of control I was thinking about when I ran across a book about the Nazi smoking campaign in Germany, 1933-45 on a smokers blog.

I posted it November 14, 2013:

_http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,84.msg454476.html#msg454476

I see a repeat performance (Germany was just a practice run?).

There is also this article from Laura, which was posted before, but is worth posting again, because you can see how an in which way smoking bans were imposed on people around the world through recent history:

http://www.sott.net/article/139304-Lets-All-Light-Up

 

[Mr. Premise]

Has anyone tried the high nicotine Amazon variety of tobacco?

Yes, as a matter of fact. I grew my own the last couple of years, two varieties, Isleta Pueblo and Azteca. They are both of the Nicotiana Rustica subspecies as opposed to the standard Nicotiana Tabacum. I've also have a little grown in India. And, after reading your post and not having tried the Amazonian Mapacho style Rustica, I ordered some online, and it arrived today.

Rustica is a nice change of pace. It is higher in nicotine, but not by a huge amount, no matter what you read online. The biggest difference is that it is higher in MAOI (monoamine oxydase inhibitors) compounds like harmalines. So the overall experience is a calmer feeling than smoking a high nicotine Tabacum variety. Since my Mapacho order came in today, I smoked 5 cigarettes with it and by the end I was a little tired of the MAOI feeling. But it's a nice change of pace. The taste is different, too, a little bit of spice a little bit of cat box . But I think it tastes good. The plants when they flower, though, smell mostly like cat box.

The Amazonian Mapacho seems to be cured like cigars and has more of a cigar taste. But still has the distinctive Rustica taste. The stuff I grew, I like the best, a much milder taste. The problem is the plants are not very productive (except for flowers and seeds which it produces in abundance). The leaves were small. I have heard that if you're meticulous about snipping the flowers the leaves will get bigger, but I just gave up and let them do what they wanted. Also, they were almost impossible to color cure, so I ended up just letting them yellow, then brown on the plant. Kind of a sun cure. I think that made it taste better. I think they would do well grown in 5 gallon pots.

If you want very high nicotine without the extra MAOI stuff you get with Rustica, the Dark Air 3rd Priming from wholeleaftobacco is pretty stout. Third priming means the leaves on the top that are higher in nicotine than the lower or middle leaves. And Dark Air in general is higher in nicotine. Same with something called Burley Red Tips offered by a farmer I've ordered from.

Anyway, thanks Davey for prompting me to try the Mapacho.

 

[goyacobol]

The WHO are ramping up the anti-smoking nonsense on social media... PROPAGANDA ALERT!
http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/ecac-12-ways/tobacco and http://cancer-code-europe.iarc.fr/index.php/en/

Yes, this is the kind of control I was thinking about when I ran across a book about the Nazi smoking campaign in Germany, 1933-45 on a smokers blog.

I posted it November 14, 2013:

_http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,84.msg454476.html#msg454476

I see a repeat performance (Germany was just a practice run?).

There is also this article from Laura, which was posted before, but is worth posting again, because you can see how an in which way smoking bans were imposed on people around the world through recent history:

http://www.sott.net/article/139304-Lets-All-Light-Up

Wow, I think that article expertly sums up the smoking propaganda and points out most of the other avenues of attack on our health as well, thanks to Laura's attention to detail.

You really gotta read the whole story to know how sick this idea is. Drugs to zone you out delivered instantly, while a substance that helps you think more efficiently and comprehensively, Nicotine, must be eliminated from the planet. Never mind that they are poisoning us with everything else. You aren't supposed to be able to realize that, which you might, if you were smoking.

I really don't think they want "people who think" to survive or interfere with their agenda.

Thanks, Pashalis.

 

[Chad]

One has to remember, that the "addictiveness" of cigarettes is only due to an insignificant part by nicotine. Nicotine itself is only very mildly addictive (contrary to mainstream arguments of it being as addictive as heroine - many studies have shown this not to be the case). This is further highlighted by the fact, that there is no market for pure nicotin, which is very cheap. Hardcore addicts will take up any substitute very readily to alleviate their cravings (eg heroin addicts will take benzos and opiates to "bridge" the interval between shots).

Studies in smoking cessation with the aid of nicotine replacement therapy (eg nicotin chewing gum vs placebo chewing gum) have been mostly negative, showing an effect only in the first few weeks. After 6 to 12 months of observation there is no difference in "success rates" between nicotine and placebo. Which further points to the fact that nicotine is not very addictive.

This whole topic is developped in more detail here.

I did not know this nicklebleu, thank you for the link :) i will have to look into it!

My bias comes from the fact that sometimes i really do feel the 'need' for tobacco (as mentioned here) and i erroneously extrapolated that, in combination with MSM propaganda, to mean that it was due to the nicotine. Thinking about it with this new information, i wonder if it's just the body reacting to the sudden slow down in cognition, an increase in stress levels, as well as the other biological processes which are benefitted by it's consumption, that we associate with the cravings.

 

[Mr. Premise]

One has to remember, that the "addictiveness" of cigarettes is only due to an insignificant part by nicotine. Nicotine itself is only very mildly addictive (contrary to mainstream arguments of it being as addictive as heroine - many studies have shown this not to be the case). This is further highlighted by the fact, that there is no market for pure nicotin, which is very cheap. Hardcore addicts will take up any substitute very readily to alleviate their cravings (eg heroin addicts will take benzos and opiates to "bridge" the interval between shots).

Studies in smoking cessation with the aid of nicotine replacement therapy (eg nicotin chewing gum vs placebo chewing gum) have been mostly negative, showing an effect only in the first few weeks. After 6 to 12 months of observation there is no difference in "success rates" between nicotine and placebo. Which further points to the fact that nicotine is not very addictive.

This whole topic is developped in more detail here.

I did not know this nicklebleu, thank you for the link :) i will have to look into it!

My bias comes from the fact that sometimes i really do feel the 'need' for tobacco (as mentioned here) and i erroneously extrapolated that, in combination with MSM propaganda, to mean that it was due to the nicotine. Thinking about it with this new information, i wonder if it's just the body reacting to the sudden slow down in cognition, an increase in stress levels, as well as the other biological processes which are benefitted by it's consumption, that we associate with the cravings.

I read that link, Nicklebleu, and I'm not convinced. While there may be other alkaloids in tobacco that contribute to the addiction, I think nicotine is clearly addictive. If you are a regular smoker and have to not smoke for a prolonged period, nicotine patches work completely well. Anyone can try this, just don't smoke for a couple of hours after waking up and then see how you feel. Then apply the proper amount of patches. Over a long period it may be different due to other factors, including the other alkaloids like nornicotine and the MAOIs. Also, with smoking, there is also the process which you miss when using patches, including the oral fixation elements and the taste. I know that when I have enough sinus congestion that I can't taste anything, then patches work great and I have no desire to smoke because I can't taste the smoke. As I've said before, I think nicotine is as addictive as caffeine, but some people aren't as susceptible to caffeine or nicotine addiction and others are. I think the need to say nicotine isn't addictive is because "addictive" has bad connotations (drug addiction sounds really bad). But there is no stigma to caffeine addiction, so that's the best way to think about it.

 

[nicklebleu]

Mr. Premise,

I didn't say nicotine wasn't addictive, but that it is only a mild addiction - to counter the arguments that it is similarly addictive as heroine.

I know from own experience that I can keep the cravings at bay with nicotine chewing gums (which I often do at work). The thing is (according to studies, FWTW) nicotine replacement therapy seems to work well at the beginning, but seems to loose effectiveness over time.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification!

 

[Mr. Premise]

Mr. Premise,

I didn't say nicotine wasn't addictive, but that it is only a mild addiction - to counter the arguments that it is similarly addictive as heroine.

I know from own experience that I can keep the cravings at bay with nicotine chewing gums (which I often do at work). The thing is (according to studies, FWTW) nicotine replacement therapy seems to work well at the beginning, but seems to loose effectiveness over time.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification!

OK, I see what you're saying. I agree that it's not as addictive as hard drugs. No one dies from nicotine withdrawal or has psychotic episodes. So yeah, I would put it on a par with caffeine. Although Keith Richards said quitting cigarettes is harder than quitting heroin, and he oughta know! But I don't believe him.

 

[Goemon_]

I had to quite smoking during 45 days on the recommandation by the surgery guy after an injury.

The 4 first days were all right, after that I had a lot of stress that has stop only when I start smoking again.

I find it quite easy to stop coffee.