So much to do, so little time ...

[RedFox]

Thanks for that Buddy....I'd never had words to describe that part of my knowledge until now. Another book to add to the list!
I remember way before Sott noticing that during my depression I would switch states....I would be either happy/positive or in a black mood and negative....more so I could not recall happy things in the black mood nor black things in the happy mood.....I could see the dividing line.....so when in my happy state I took time to recall (with some effort I may add) some of my blacker thoughts and look at them then. This meant that in the black mood I could remember what I'd worked out in the happy mood.

This example above is also me connecting new knowledge to personal experience.

I think you are also right R4D4 in that sometimes it doesn't stick unless you practice it....what I think that is, is the same as above....you lack a personal experience to connect the knowledge too so actively need to create one?

 

[Breton]

Have you heard of the idea of 'state-dependent recall'?
...
Apologies if I made this sound too complicated. It's really not. There is some lengthy theory behind the idea and some small controversy, but the idea of "state-dependent recall" seems to have application to understanding the predator's mind and the psychophysiology of trauma as well, so I thought it might be useful to be as thorough as I could.

I have not specifically studied this, but what you say makes sense to me, and it sure got my head to thinking.

My method to try catch up with the material on this site while being caught up in busy family life was using cellphone/pda whenever I could. As a side effect of this approach, it might have meant that I was playing with concepts in a variety of locations and circumstances (and moods).

It was challenging to do it without my wife or relatives noticing by the way!

I did all this because I was motivated to catch up with everyone here. I did not think about how it might have been a help in cutting through the "state-dependent recall".

Maybe another way I could think of it, is that this activity might have helped prevent creating a "Work me" in a particular time or place, that was separate from the "everyday me" (employee, husband, father) that did not remember the "Work" while in those "everyday" roles.

What I mean by the Work in this context: the work on oneself, self observing, reflecting and trying to apply the information studied.

Not everyone can carry their reading around with them: it is just not possible in a lot of circumstances. Also, there has been some discussion on this forum, I think initiated from clues given by the C's, that we are likely harming ourselves by exposure to so much radio waves, and actually carrying a cell phone around all the time is probably coming with some detrimental physical side effects. Personally, at this time, I guess I am willing to risk it because of the crucial part of the learning curve I am/was in.

Then, whether one has portable reading aids with them or not, one still needs to apply knowledge. So I am with you Buddy when you said:

Try and connect what your reading/studying to your personal life and personal experience as deeply and as widely as you can.

As far as just mood being associated with recall, I might note here that after I have "discussions" with my wife (which are really arguments, or a kind of energy draining badgering employed by her to "make me see" her point) are so fundamentally unpleasant that I have great difficulty in recalling them. I have to usually make notes right away after them to be able to recall what was said and what I thought at the time. I suppose it is related to trauma.

_Breton_

 

[Lindenlea]

Hi Nicklebleu,

I recently registered after lurking for a good while as I found all this information overwhelming, it got worse every time I visited as there was more to read and do. Then I decided to make a list of all the essential threads and bookmarked them, then set aside a block of time (daily or every other day) to do as much as I can.

I try to finish off with the last ten minutes of the meditation which has The Prayer of the Soul and Laura’s soothing voice which de-stresses you.
Hope this is helpful

 

[Buddy]

Maybe another way I could think of it, is that this activity might have helped prevent creating a "Work me" in a particular time or place, that was separate from the "everyday me" (employee, husband, father) that did not remember the "Work" while in those "everyday" roles.

What I mean by the Work in this context: the work on oneself, self observing, reflecting and trying to apply the information studied.

Thanks for bringing that up. That's what got me into trouble - the "Work I" that only existed when I was in the state I created from the beginning of exposure to the Wave and the forum.

As far as just mood being associated with recall, I might note here that after I have "discussions" with my wife (which are really arguments, or a kind of energy draining badgering employed by her to "make me see" her point) are so fundamentally unpleasant that I have great difficulty in recalling them. I have to usually make notes right away after them to be able to recall what was said and what I thought at the time. I suppose it is related to trauma.

_Breton_

Congratulations on your efforts to stay connected to your wife through your notes. To me, that shows you care. I was finally able to start seeing conflicts with my wife as a reflection of an inner conflict between 'me' and a 'this is how it is Little I'. This quote took awhile to really sink in, and it's still sinking in (bold mine):

[quote author=Jeanne de Salzmann]
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.[/quote]

The main problem seemed to be in wanting to 'hold my position' while examining another. I just had to let it go and trust that if what I knew/believed was true, it would come back to me. In the meantime, I really listened and asked questions, with respect and tenderness, so that I could really see where she was coming from.

You can't grow (in knowledge of all Creation) if your holding on to something. Your essence has no particular shape or position anyway, so it's ok to experience a change that makes you feel different than you were before, OSIT

At least, this is my current understanding.

 

[Breton]

Congratulations on your efforts to stay connected to your wife through your notes. To me, that shows you care.

I noticed that there is renewed activity in the Marital Conflict thread, and I might wander over there to share some of my marital relationship experiences there, in case someone can benefit and maybe mirror me a bit. (I have not done this much).

Nevertheless, about the note taking: I am doing this because I at least am committed to trying to UNDERSTAND what is going on and it is more than just trying to understand her point of view. I am trying to get at the objective reality of our situation, of our whole relationship. This might be what the core of the Work is anyways, trying to see the objective reality in everything that is in our lives. This is the path to learn lessons most rapidly. Or so it seems to me right now.

I think I am trying to understand without anticipation or preconceived notion about what the answer is. The answer does not have to be that one is right and one is wrong (Neither are "right", we both have a false personality that is running mechanical programs of the multiple I's).

Let me add that I am thinking that I cannot have necessarily a preconceived notion about the outcome either like: "we must be together". It does not necessarily mean we have to separate either. You can see how someone can already have a bias towards an answer ahead of time, and it may slow the understanding process unnecessarily.

And so maybe what I wrote above sounds a bit like it is in synch with what you wrote:

I just had to let it go and trust that if what I knew/believed was true, it would come back to me
...
You can't grow (in knowledge of all Creation) if your holding on to something.

It sounds that you are letting go of "anticipation". It sounds that you are trying to be open even though you might have come to what you thought was a pretty solid conclusion.

I better try to remember that. I think it will help me too.

I was finally able to start seeing conflicts with my wife as a reflection of an inner conflict between 'me' and a 'this is how it is Little I'.

Hmmm... I wonder if I am missing that concept in the Work: a conflict outside of me is a reflection of a conflict inside of me...

I will need to think on that one.

And I wonder what "worlds" Salzmann was referring to. This outer world and this inner world, perhaps?

Your essence has no particular shape or position anyway, so it's ok to experience a change that makes you feel different than you were before, OSIT

Good one! Works for me.

_Breton_

 

[gotogo]

As a computer programmer, a 'release' time is a tough time I need to go through periodically.
As usual, the release time was postponed for 2 weeks and then follows bug fixing and deploying patches for a while...

"So much to do, so little time ..." so true!

It is already hard to catch up "Show unread posts since last visit"... posts are increasing whenever I clicked the link!
Other members seem doing so great!

I believe it is another good opportunity to 'observe' myself (instead of 'judging' myself mechanically or I should say 'observe' myself including 'judging' myself mechanically).
I am not formulating yet but I am getting a new understanding of what the 'Networking' is from a completely different perspective...

Sorry for jumping in without reading everything on this thread yet but I needed to 'connect' it, I guess.

 

[Buddy]

I noticed that there is renewed activity in the Marital Conflict thread, and I might wander over there to share some of my marital relationship experiences there, in case someone can benefit and maybe mirror me a bit. (I have not done this much).

Well, if you do, I'll give whatever I can to any discussion.

And I wonder what "worlds" Salzmann was referring to. This outer world and this inner world, perhaps?

Cosidering the quote as a whole and what I think is it's intended purpose, I imagine she's referring to anything that could be considered separate 'worlds'... the inner, the outer, the lies that prevent unity between individuals...that sort of thing.

It is already hard to catch up "Show unread posts since last visit"...

Same here. Exciting isn't it? There's still many threads I haven't explored yet because there's so much to do, and so little time, and I can't afford to lose sight of the basics I'm working on. :)

 

[anart]

And I wonder what "worlds" Salzmann was referring to. This outer world and this inner world, perhaps?

Cosidering the quote as a whole and what I think is it's intended purpose, I imagine she's referring to anything that could be considered separate 'worlds'... the inner, the outer, the lies that prevent unity between individuals...that sort of thing.

Perhaps I can help with that, or not, depending... It's my understanding that she is referring to the world of illusion and the world of the Real - objective reality. These are, very much, two different worlds and those in the world of illusion cannot see the world of the Real.

What keeps the two worlds separate from each other is one's blindness and subjectivity, of which she writes at length in the essay. At least, this has been my understanding - though there might be more objective interpretations!

 

[anothermagyar]

[quote author=anart]Perhaps I can help with that, or not, depending... It's my understanding that she is referring to the world of illusion and the world of the Real - objective reality. These are, very much, two different worlds and those in the world of illusion cannot see the world of the Real.

What keeps the two worlds separate from each other is one's blindness and subjectivity, of which she writes at length in the essay. At least, this has been my understanding - though there might be more objective interpretations!
[/quote]
Thank you anart. I'm going for a walk and think about it.
I get inspired when I'm walking long distance. Helps "crystallizing" thoughts.
I think Ark mentioned that once.
Many times I felt urge, rush like the rabbit in the "Alice adventure in Wonderland":
"Hurry, hurry, I'm going to be late!"
This program is gone (osit :/) or not present. I understand my development is up to how I gain knowledge. Through observation and reading. There was a time when I had to put down books like Political Ponerology, - language barriers! - because I was incapable to understanding it. My intellectual center need some upgrade, I thought. Overcome of "worthless" program. Then going back to read and try to understand the meaning. Not easy! But I figured this is my path to grow and if comets may send me back to 5D still what I learned I earned. There will be another time in the future when I can learn more and this thought gives me a feeling like a child under the Christmas tree. So much to discover and one can only follow his/her own path.
osit.

 

[Breton]

And I wonder what "worlds" Salzmann was referring to. This outer world and this inner world, perhaps?

What keeps the two worlds separate from each other is one's blindness and subjectivity, of which she writes at length in the essay. At least, this has been my understanding - though there might be more objective interpretations!

Yes, this would make sense to me too, although I have not had the same level of studying of the writings related to Gurdjieff.

The worlds of subjectivity and objectivity seems to me such a central principle mentioned over and over again in the work of the people here and seems central to the C's teachings.

I had been thinking lately (while going for walks, like anothermagyar mentioned helps thinking and processing ) that one of the main identifiable differences in life that exposes the duality of STS vs STO is identifying subjectivity, (wishful thinking, blind beliefs) from objectivity (what is really going on, what are the real motivations for what I do, or what anyone does).

One of the main features of STS, is subjectivity: being subjective, promoting others to accept subjective views, teaching that there is no such thing as objectivity. And so on.

So in this thread, the subject being "So much to do, so little time ..." we can be comforted to remember that just practicing discernment between these two worlds, and making choices that tend towards objectivity, are important things that one can do while involved in "life" - all those things that are "keeping one from studying". So when not studying and reading, you never need to stop the Work.

Maybe someone else can express it a bit more clearly than I can.

_Breton_

 

[nicklebleu]

So in this thread, the subject being "So much to do, so little time ..." we can be comforted to remember that just practicing discernment between these two worlds, and making choices that tend towards objectivity, are important things that one can do while involved in "life" - all those things that are "keeping one from studying". So when not studying and reading, you never need to stop the Work.

_Breton_

Thanks all for your input ... it has been most revealing.

And to Breton: That's a very central point that I seem to loose sight of again and again. "Learning" is not just "reading", as much as "knowing" is not "understanding".

I'll try to keep that more in mind, while involved in "life"!

 

[RedFox]

fwiw

I'd like to add a new observation, specifically in responce to the So much to do, so little time thread.
I have noticed more and more so over the last few days (although the last few weeks more subtly) experiencing an abundance of time. It is not stable and mostly fleeting, but I have had many moment now where I have done many things (such as housework) that would normally take 30/40minutes, taking me 5/10minutes.....I usually double take when I look at the clock ....I've even checked against other clocks in case the batteries where low.
It certainly is a wow moment when it happens, because I find it hard to believe sometimes how little time/effort things took compared to 'normal'.
I've been neglecting my reading (of books) lately so I don't know yet if it applies to this too, however I do seem to be able to read/post more here in less time??
Will report back if I notice any more of this.

 

[realitybugll]

I remember way before Sott noticing that during my depression I would switch states....I would be either happy/positive or in a black mood and negative....more so I could not recall happy things in the black mood nor black things in the happy mood.....I could see the dividing line.....so when in my happy state I took time to recall (with some effort I may add) some of my blacker thoughts and look at them then. This meant that in the black mood I could remember what I'd worked out in the happy mood.

seeing the dividing line is a new perspective for me but I think I know what you mean. It's like sometimes I look at my life I'm so happy and positive about the future, also excited, then sometimes I'm completely sad and depressed and feel worthless. But yea, it is interesting when you realize what your doing to yourself basically enforcing on yourself, maybe, fake and sectioned thoughts and never accounting for the whole picture. Then like you said, letting yourself try and experience the other side of your thoughts in the given moment. I feel like I understand exactly what you explained. possibly it does have to do with different I's being in 'control' but it also seems more like a generalized result of unawareness. I can't really figure it out in the moment, but what you describe, and what I think I experience is quite I curious affair. Though I think it is quite off topic from the discussion; maybe I don't understand how it relates.

FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it. First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.

This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think. Arkadiusz Jadczyk

That you for quoting Ark, whoever did so.
It's interesting, I kind of relate to this sentiment but I guess I don't understand it fully. Right now I guess I am making the shift from actively pursuing the work and becoming more 'aware' to it becoming somewhat of an obligation. At first a devoured through most of the wave out of sheer curiosity and of desire to do so, thought now I am having to set aside time to make sure I do my reading. A lot of the problem I believe is that, yes there is so little time left, but my mind constantly wants to pursue what I believe to be distractions or programs. For instance instead of reading books on the recommended reading list, sometimes it is more entertaining for me to delve into the subjects of Astral projection, Lucid Dreaming, Sleep, and the topic also Reptilian aliens (most probably from disinformation writings) which probably does little more then creep me out... So I guess I what I am saying is that while before I pursued the wave on a 'fun' intellectual bases, the fun has sort of run out for me partly because I am trying to use my best discernment. psychopathy and the like are things that I don't necessarily want to read about and so now I am now requiring myself to set time out to do such, and such, like most of the rest of you I gather.

This is where I come into the conflict with the quote from Ark sort of. I guess one of the best things to do is not to stress but I think a lot of time spent on the "work" won't be always doing what "I love to do." everyone got to suffer to some degree right?

Anyways that's all I have to add for the moment. I feel left in subjective thought spinning in circles in trying to ascertain what I actually do think. :/
Thanks for putting up with me now's about time to get back to my school work :)

 

[realitybugll]

I can't edit yet. ehhhh, I just realized I revived a partially dead thread oh no! :O

 

[Navigator]

I surely can relate to the OP account, mostly working 9 1/2 hours a day, weekends free but then catching up with my sleep, my relationship and the house shores eat up my time, I am so sorry I have somewhat neglected the translations I have been doing regularly for the spanish group. Right now I am trying another approach, following a fellow group member's advice, I have tried to make some money out of the web to try to leave my current work and dedicate myself to all the things I really want to do, which are more participation in this forum, the translations, the breathing program, the reading, etc. I am also trying to do the super simple diet to have some more energy.

My best advice would be, don't push you body too hard, try another methods to gain energy, and cut up all the energy draining activities as Gurdjieff has recommended.