Sorcha Faal/David Booth: COINTELPRO

By "unofficial" tree I did not mean "unreliable". Springmeier, who has done real genealogy, is referring to bastard ancestry lines that are left out of the official tree. Like many of the Rothschilds. So Springmeier comes up with quite an impressive set of linkages. And Burkes Peerage may well have its own games to play. For it did utter the remark that the winner of every presidential election back to Washington had the :"most royal genes and chromosomes." The Tenant Farmer and the Nobleman" might make for an interesting idea for a story, but Burke's Peerage appears to know more than it is letting on. How about a little COINTELPRO from Burkes Peerage? Or is that only the case when you all want it to be?


As for Gnazzo's piece, where you are quite dismissive, the European Union has declared the Ordo Draconis a "sovereign ethnic racial group." This is a *separate race*! And *sovereign* to boot. I find this little short of astonishing. But it doesn't fit the QFG schema so neatly--so out it goes quickly. These are deep games in high places. The EU is, needless to say, one of the major planks in the One World Government program. A little more credence to the Illuminati would explain a lot here. Not to mention the "possibility" (I didn't say it was true) that Icke has some basis for his beliefs. Minimally, finding out just what is going on here would explain a whole lot, IMO.
 
Steve said:
. How about a little COINTELPRO from Burkes Peerage? Or is that only the case when you all want it to be?

As for Gnazzo's piece, where you are quite dismissive, the European Union has declared the Ordo Draconis a "sovereign ethnic racial group." This is a *separate race*! And *sovereign* to boot. I find this little short of astonishing. But it doesn't fit the QFG schema so neatly--so out it goes quickly. .
Hmm, Steve, you might want to pull your shirt down a bit, your biases seem to be showing. ;)

In actuality, if you were to spend some real time reading the thousand plus pages of work that make up the very basic aspects presented on the Cassiopaea pages, you'd quickly realize that very little is ever thrown out quickly. As a matter of fact, the work presented tends to err on the side of "it could be possible" much more often than it ever says, "no way, no how". I won't even go into the laughability of using the European Union's declaration as a measure of validity, but that's a discussion for another day.
 
The trick is figuring out what "facts" are represented by documents. It can get pretty slippery. The first fact has to be what the earliest copy of the document is. If it is an original, and that's not too hard to determine esp. if it is a manuscript, since scribes hands can be traced, then the only fact at first that the document attests to is that someone felt the need to write those words down in that order and others felt the need to invest resources in preserving those words.

As to any facticity of the referents of the documents, that is much harder. For unimportant people, a parish register saying so and so was born to so and so and so and so on this date, is fairly reliable, but you still don't really know who the father is. For more important people (royals, nobility, urban patriciate) all kinds of other issues come into play relating to dynastic interests, etc. which can affect the reliability of genealogical documents. An excellent book on just how unreliable documentary evidence can be is Phantoms of Remembrance by Patrick Geary.

For example, there may be a desperate need for an heir, and some other woman could give birth and the baby could be smuggled into the chamber where the lady is pretending to give birth. Probably didn't happen that much, but over many centuries it affects the reliability of trying to plot genetic data onto genealogies. Genealogies are cultural and genes are biological and they don't correspond exactly.

DNA testing has helped (like with Thomas Jefferson and the Hemmings) but again the farther you go back the murkier it gets.

Laura said:
[Like I said, do the genealogy work like a REAL genealogist... go after documents and hard facts, not "unofficial trees" that are not documented and are often the figments of somebody's wishful imagination. Unless you have done this kind of thing yourself, you can't have the "feel" for it, how it works, and how to spot the absurdities.
 
EsoQuest said:
So what does this article imply? That we had better get organized like old Herod and flush the brats out of the woodwork? Maybe we should start building our own concentration camps? Good thing the brats are being drowned in anti-psychotics and depleted Uranium! Maybe that'll hold 'em down! Three cheers for Dubya and "his allies" who know the face of evil and will leave no stone unturned to protect us ingrates from it!
What if Indigo children was a myth? Made up by a 'love and light' all rosy coloured glasses YCYOR, sugar and spice person to explain children who behave psychopathically. Sort of a very generously created (possibly even subconsciously) 'cover'.... for them.

What if Indigo children didn't exist at all?

The problem of psychopathic children, children given anti psychotics inappropriately and depleted Uranium are problems that DO exist.

Maybe these have nothing to do with this mythical concept of Indigo or 'uber brats?!! Uh-oh, how'd we get on to this?
 
The tendency is to dismiss everything unliked as idiocy or COINTELPRO. Well, there is plenty of it around, to be sure. Sorcha Faal is too far off the radar screen to be part of this, IMO. Now Jeff Rense has been recently included in this camp. I do not know how these claims can provably be made, except that he has guilt by association with some suspect characters. You know, some of these people may all just be looking around for the same elusive answers and just see the world differently . Some are not, and there is plenty to hide. COINTELPRO indeed. Then ego intrudes. And you look inward and become isolated. As noted, this is why science tries to stay within repeatable experiments and peer review, precisely to avoid the "anything goes" sort of thinking. Science has unfortunately morphed into its own sort of faith-based discipline by frequently asserting that *only* scientifically formed sentences have any *meaning*. This is as bad as the purveyors of organized religion. But it has its motivations and they are completely comprehensible. And, yes, it too has been massively tunneled and manipulated, IMO.
I think about that a lot when I think about guests to have on my radio show. I like to learn about new things and being exposed to unusual ideas, but don't want to inadvertently promote disinfo. for example, anyone hear of Paul Andrew Mitchell? I'm curious about him, but am hesitant to have him on my show. I use my show to quasi-publicly share my reading/research time and don't always do the best research, I kinda play fast and loose, which might not always be such a good thing...

I guess its to always repeat that belief is the responsibility and burden of the believer and to not be credulous of me just cuz you heard it on the show.
 
re: indigos
I have a daughter who is almost 3. when she was a baby, a Russian "new age" woman who claimed to be a walk in started to rent our garage. She was convinced that our daughter was an "Crystal child" which is the next highest vibration or something like that, she gave me the list of attributes. I didn't (and still don't) see any resemblence to my girl but the woman insisted she was an Crystal, blah blah blah." From the list of attributes, both crystal and indigo children do seem like spoiled little brats. psychopaths? i dunno. either way a handful, but then what kid isn't? this stuff does seem like eugenics or caste systems to me.

I met a new ager in the '90's who said that i needed to cleanse and that if i did, my brown eyes would turn blue! which is better i guess.

hows that for aryan brotherhood? sheesh.
 
Ultimately this "Indigo Children" thing is a tangled web. Here in Greece two alternative magazines I get both featured articles on the matter, and none of these articles indicated negative qualities for the children in mention. I looked up the matter on the Internet and got the same impression. I thought: "Wow, there is an increase in gifted individualistic children. This is a good thing."

I also understood that there was a tendency in the US education system to diagnose anyone who doesn't fit the groove with some disorder and prescribe drugs. Now I hear the other side of the coin. In all of this, the ones who pay the price are the children themselves and after them the parents. It's bad enough having to protect your child from a toxic environment and a toxic society without heaping unrealistic labels on them. IMO (given the new input) this issue has no redeeming value.
 
Steve said:
Springmeier, who has done real genealogy, is referring to bastard ancestry lines that are left out of the official tree. Like many of the Rothschilds. So Springmeier comes up with quite an impressive set of linkages. And Burkes Peerage may well have its own games to play. For it did utter the remark that the winner of every presidential election back to Washington had the :"most royal genes and chromosomes." The Tenant Farmer and the Nobleman" might make for an interesting idea for a story, but Burke's Peerage appears to know more than it is letting on. How about a little COINTELPRO from Burkes Peerage? Or is that only the case when you all want it to be?
http://www.whale.to/b/sp/au.html said:
WHO IS FRITZ SPRINGMEIER

Fritz Artz Springmeier is regarded as one of the foremost authorities on the Illuminati and mind control. He has been on numerous radio shows and spoken at several conferences. A prolific writer, Springmeier has published several books, most notably, Be Wise As Serpents, The Watchtower and the Masons, The Top 13 Illuminati Bloodlines, The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave and Deeper Insights.


Although Mr. Springmeier has disseminated a plethora of intriguing information, a veil of mystery surrounds this renowned researcher. Born in Garden City, Kansas on Sept. 24, 1955, Fritz’ previous name was Victor Earl Schoof, which he legally changed in 1987. The most recent name he uses may, in fact, be likened to a puzzle. Several survivors of ritual abuse and mind control have indicated being profoundly triggered after seeing or hearing his pseudonym. Fritz was the name Josef Mengele used while hiding out in South America. "Spring" in occult lingo means new. Meier may be a derivative of the German word meister, which means master. Hence; the new master in the likeness of Josef Mengele.

Arthur Alexander was either an Uncle or Grandfather on his mother’s side. One source claims Fritz' birth name is Arthur Alexander, Jr., however, this has not been cross referenced or objectively substantiated. Fritz’ father worked as an agricultural engineer for the United Nations and was assigned to such locations as Nepal, Libya, and Hawaii. After Fritz graduated from high school, he allegedly attended West Point. When Texe Marrs checked into his credentials, he found out there was no record of Fritz (or Victor Schoof) ever attending there.

Springmeier became interested in the Jehovah’s Witnesses, even though he supposedly became a Christian during his ‘teen years. While attending Kingdom Hall, he met a woman who he eventually married and had a child together. This marriage did not last long, as his wife filed for divorce on the grounds of child abuse – a charge that was never proven. The custody rights of their young son went to her. Disgruntled over the court decision, Fritz kidnaped the boy and fled to Oregon from the mid-west. He eluded law enforcement for about two years and was finally captured by the FBI. Springmeier was sentenced and served an unspecified amount of time in a federal prison. Some time after his release, he went back to Oregon and became involved in a counter-cult ministry to JW’s called, Witness Inc.

Due to unresolved disagreements with the leadership of the organization, he abruptly left. Shortly thereafter, Fritz joined another ministry but departed for reasons unknown. Around this time period, Springmeier met a Christian woman and married for the second time. He jokingly told her the reason he married her was because of her bloodline, which comes from an Illuminati family. She later came to the realization that it may have been closer to truth than not.

In the early 1990's, Fritz decided to go into full time ministry, along with being a stay-home dad with their new born son. While doing research on the Illuminati, he came across a woman by the name of Linda Anderson, who uses the alias, Cisco Wheeler. She is reputed to be a survivor of MK ULTRA-MONARCH programming. Springmeier became fascinated by her vast wealth of information, which he used extensively in his newsletters and books. This fascination soon turned into an obsession as Fritz started regularly spending the night at her house in order to protect her from being accessed. Strangely, Cisco’s husband lived in another dwelling next to the house, but did not seem to mind Fritz staying there. Springmeier’s wife, however, was quite concerned and upset over her husband s close relationship with Cisco. He would tell those close around him that his wife did not understand how important it was that he stay close to Cisco because her life was in jeopardy and he was one of the few people that could truly help her.

As a result of all the turmoil within the Springmeier family, their youngest son was experiencing severe emotional problems. Fritz’ wife took him to a therapist for an evaluation. The therapist felt the youngster may have been traumatized through sexual abuse. Another counselor also evaluated the psychological report and drew the same conclusion.

One day, Fritz’ wife found a black box under their bed. To her astonishment, there were several fake ID’s with Fritz’ picture on many of them. He used such aliases as Ian McDiarmid, Peter Dunne, Amos Eicher, and Vernon Schwartz. Fritz’ wife could no longer deal with his deceptiveness, insensitivity and abandonment so she filed for a divorce.

Shortly before the couple parted, Fritz and Cisco went to a mind control symposium in Texas and introduced her as Mrs. Springmeier. Many thought he was arrogant and obnoxious as he [
b]constantly interrupted the speakers and thought he should have been a presenter because of his vast knowledge about MPD, mind control, and ritual abuse. Also around this time, he was given a large sum of money, specifically for the the reprinting of two different books he’d written. Much to the dismay of the benefactor, he used only a small portion of the money for the books as most of it was used frivolously on personal items for Linda. The books were already made and stored by someone who was formerly in ministry with Fritz and who worked as a liaison between him and the printer.

In July 1996, Fritz and Cisco tried to get the books from this individual by banging on his door around 3:30 A.M., but were told he needed to pay the printer for them first. This infuriated Fritz who called the police and accused this person of stealing his books. The police talked to the printer to get his side of the story and he reconfirmed that the books were not officially the property of Springmeier because he had not paid for them. The police then told Fritz and Cisco to vacate the property, which they proceeded to do with much disdain.

In 1997, Springmeier wrote a letter, peculiarly titled, "Affidavit," to those on his mailing list. He charged Terry Cook, Ron Patton, and his second ex-wife, with conspiracy to bring his ministry down. Much of this confusing and poorly written letter was riddled with innuendos, half-truths and lies. For instance, he mentions, " Several people from the Terry Cook and Ron Patton group called Texe Marrs and simply slandered me with outright fabrications." First of all, there was never a connection between Cook and Patton. Mr. Patton called Terry Cook once regarding information about Carl Sanders. He also concocted a story saying Ron Patton had been under the tutelage of the Jesuits and was an alcoholic before converting to Protestantism. There is no evidence to substantiate these erroneous claims either. Further along in his writing, Fritz comments that, "Several people have told me my ex-wife is controlled by demons and given her life to Satan." Once again, he makes outlandish accusations to discredit those who he perceives as trying to destroy his ministry. His ex-wife has been attending a strong Bible believing church for several years and the leadership and congregation can attest to the solid faith she has in Jesus Christ.

This letter may have, in fact, been written as a form of damage control because Ron Patton had written an article titled, "Exposing the Exposers," in the Spring 1997 issue of his newsletter, Endure To The End. Essentially, Patton questioned why Springmeier aloud himself to be interviewed by the CIA front tabloid, CONTACT (December 17, 1996). Ron makes an interesting observation: during the interview, Fritz acknowledges his calling in life is to be a religious and social reformer. Coincidentally, in his book, The Illuminati Formula Used To Create A Total Mind Controlled Slave, he states on page 14 that one of the occupations the programmers select and groom for a young child under mind control is a religious and social reformer. This presents the question: why would Fritz use such precise wording to describe himself and why would a Christian use such ambiguous terminology for his calling?

In short, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck, it's a duck. Springmeier is a Schizoidal Psychopath and such types attract all sorts of people, mostly non-critical or also psychologically deviant.
 
Nasty piece of stuff you found. Some internet slime. Can you vouch for its vercaity or did you conclude he was a pysychopath based on that one piece? If you had read this instead, would you reach the same conclusion:

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/springmeir_arrest.htm

On behalf of my good friend Fritz Springmeier, I felt compelled to stand up for him and his wife who were recently arrested and then vilified by the media.

Fritz has long been one who loves God, loves this country and his fellow man; and has tried to peacefully bring about social changes for the better through education. Unfortunately, the information he puts out is very detrimental to that nasty little group known as the Illuminati because his books expose them, their tactics, clandestine plans and the organizations they run. Some of those Illuminati-controlled departments like the ATF and FBI which took part in the Springmeiers' arrest are exposed, coincidentally, by Fritz in his books. One can't help but reminisce on their past successes at Waco, Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City Federal Building and several others that deserve honorable mention.

I recall a man named John Todd who defected from the Illuminati years ago and did all he could to expose them. Like crafty chess-players, the satanic network planned out their moves until they framed him and had him railroaded into prison on false rape charges. Fritz was in contact with Todd and wrote about him and his frame up in his book The Top Thirteen Illuminati Bloodlines in an effort to show the American people what lengths the 'Network' will go to in order to demonize you and shut you up.

Fritz and his coauthor Cisco Wheeler came to my humble home town of Battle Mountain a couple years age to visit me. While they were here I asked them if they would put on a seminar for my community and they gladly were willing. After about three hours of presenting overwhelming research on the puppet-masters a man got up and asked Fritz "How come you are still alive?" He answered "You can be sure, I'm going to get my comeuppance." It appears he is being paid back for his efforts. I pray it goes no further.

The media is doing its part in cooperation with the enforcement agencies to paint the Springmeiers as racist white-supremacists. They claim he has written books supporting the white-separatist movement, yet they gave no titles of books or pamphlets for examples, although they should have enough of his material in possession. I volunteer my services to Clackamas County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Angela Blanchard and all other agents and officers involved in this 'sting' . I will read them his books and they can raise their hands when they believe they hear me recite examples of Fritz endorsing racism, white supremacy, anti-semitism, christian-identity, etc. I have talked with Fritz on a few occasions about racism. One time in particular we were discussing Pastor James P. Wickstrom and the Christian Identity Movement. We were both in agreement on the issue and he summed it up by saying "When will they realize that it's grace not race (whereby we may enter into the kingdom of Heaven)."

In other efforts to discredit the man, a nameless person (possibly under mind control) has been making allegations that while they stayed at Cisco Wheeler's residence they witnessed Fritz feeding Cisco drugs and keeping her under his control so as to sexually abuse her himself and they complained of an unpleasant and abusive home atmosphere. I have stayed there at Cisco's residence in Oregon City a few times myself and found it to be just the opposite. I consider Cisco a good friend and I love her to pieces. My heart goes out to her and all other victims of mind control because of the unbelievable trauma that they have endured. The last thing I would do is cover up someone abusing her or any other victims, regardless of who they were. I find it ridiculous that Fritz would do such things when it goes against everything he stands for, not to mention being able to accomplish this in front of Cisco's husband and son who lived there and her daughter who visits regularly, not to mention people like myself who would come to stay and visit on a frequent basis.

Anyone who knows much about the Illuminati mind control knows that someone trying to escape it must have a support team of trustworthy people around them to keep their programmers from accessing them and undoing all the progress that the victim and their therapist have made. Fritz was largely left alone in this task. He and Cisco both have told me of many times when her former handlers have tried almost everything to access her. From phone calls to strangers showing up at her door as business men or what have you. And there is no doubt they were/are under surveillance

. One day I was sitting in her living room visiting with her husband and I noticed a white van parked at the house directly across the street. It was the kind without any windows on the sides. I noticed that it sat there for quite a while without anyone getting in or out. I walked out like I was going to get something out of my car but continued walking closer to the van for a better look. A man immediately got out of the middle door on the opposite side and headed for the front door of the house. Startled, I turned around and headed back into Cisco's house and when I looked back, he had turned around as well and got back into the van. Knowing that he had been spotted, he drove off quickly afterward. These are just a few of the facts.

If you will not stand up for others when they are right, do not be disappointed when nobody helps you when you stand up for the truth. If you are unsure, dig in and find the truth.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."
Proverbs 18:13


Respectfully,
James Whisler
James Whisler

Ot let's try this from David Icke's site:

LATEST ATTACK ON FRITZ SPRINGMEIER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The latest attack on Fritz Springmeier is interesting to study because it shows how the police working with their controlled media lackeys can create a propaganda story against someone out of thin air.

The headline reads 'FBI probes alleged threat to officer'. The words 'FBI probes' and 'threat' sound very ominous, like something serious is in the works. The subheadline in a smaller font is more accurate; it states, 'Man tied to extremists reportedly sent letter in ’97 seeking information on cop.'

The man they are referring to in the headline is Fritz Springmeier. The letter they refer to is a simple letter of inquiry written four years ago asking a private detective if he could provide the address of a policeman who has been in the news frequently for shooting people. Because the system (police and media) have been trying to cast Springmeier’s image as a terrorist in their own minds and the public mind, everything Springmeier does must of course be related in their thinking to terrorism.

A simple letter of inquiry about an address must be seen (reframed using their tunnel vision) as a threat.

Again, just a few additional comments on the subtitle: the links between Springmeier and 'extremists' are of the police’s own making. What links exist? They never say. And who determines who is extreme? Some people would say that the things the United States government is doing are extreme. Some people would say the way the government puts the rights of fleas, flies, mice and frogs before American property rights are extreme.

Some would say the way the police act are extreme. Who are the extremists? What has Springmeier done that is extreme? He wrote a letter asking for an address! The reporter who wrote the story and the police who worked with him probably have inquired countless times for the addresses of other people. Does that by equal logic mean they are trying to threaten all those people, and should be investigated by the FBI, and that the public made afraid of them by warnings in the press?

Now we have just explained the headline. Let’s look at the text of this propaganda attack against Springmeier.

First paragraph reads, 'The Portland Police Bureau is investigating a potential threat against one of its officers by a writer with links to the extremist group of Army of God.' Who invented these links? The police and the media. There is no proof of any links because Springmeier wasn’t a member of the Army of God. And what is a 'potential threat'? It’s more Big Brother doublespeak. The letter was not a real threat, so it becomes a 'potential threat'.

Further we read, ' ‘No weapons or Army of God literature were found at Springmeier’s home, but the two men knew each other, sheriff’s office spokeswoman Angela Blancard said.’ ' Here we have a classic case of guilt by association. Because Springmeier knew someone who the police allege was a suspected member of the Army of God, then obviously Springmeier, who they view with tunnel vision as a terrorist must also be tainted. It’s guilt by association. And the original person’s 'guilt' hasn’t even be proved, just alleged.

Further in the article’s sixth paragraph we read, 'On Nov. 3, 1997, Springmeier wrote to local free-lance journalist John Stevens asking for the home address of Portland police officer Scott Westerman. Stevens was alarmed by the letter and had an associate tell a relative on the police bureau about it. Westerman did not learn about the letter until just a few weeks ago, however.'

John Stevens is really an undercover Fed agent who posed as a detective who would help Fritz Springmeier locate anyone. Springmeier sent Stevens $100 to get an address, which Stevens generously stole and gave nothing in return to Springmeier. If Springmeier did anything wrong it was in trusting a lying thieving Federal agent. If the letter had been more than a genuine inquiry, Stevens would have notified Westerman. To get around the obvious logic in this, the news article must resort to some propaganda tricks.

First, they quote Westerman, 'That’s a pretty substantial threat, I wish I had been told about it at the time.' Then they quote Westerman as indicating 'He doesn’t blame Stevens for the lack of notice. ‘He did the right thing’ Westerman said.'

What was the threat? They never say. That is why Westerman was not warned, there never was a threat. But if we suppose there was really a threat like they are pretending, then their undercover Federal agent goofed. So they conveniently get Stevens off the hook by Westerman saying, 'He did the right thing.'

The article also mentions the Army of God and how they use explosives.

This is more guilt by association and propaganda scare tactics. No real links have been discovered. They go on to describe how Westerman shot a women who claimed she had 'lots of hard evidence of judicial corruption in Multnomah County.' They also describe Springmeier as 'Springmeier is a fundamentalist Christian who has written several books charging that satanic forces are conspiring with corrupt government officials to take over the world. During a radio interview, he described his job as ‘exposing the New World Order agenda.’ '

What the media and police hope is that they have sufficiently tainted Springmeier as a dangerous terrorist so that they public will discount who he is and what he has done. However, the public is not so stupid. Anyone who reads this news article and thinks things through will see that nothing real has been found against Springmeier, but that the police have shot a woman who had evidence of judicial corruption, and that the police and media have a strong enough grudge against Springmeier that they would smear him with false innuendos and distortions.

If the writer of the article thinks that people will think Springmeier a madman because he is 'exposing the New World Order', he is out of touch with the public’s awareness. The public is not so stupid. They have heard their own American presidents repeatedly desire to lead us into this New World Order and they are seeing the evidence of this fascist socialist globalism all around them.

On April 16, 2001 KPDX Fox news broadcast a retraction that Fritz and Patricia Springmeier were members of the Army of God on the 10:00 p.m. news program. The retraction was as follows:

'On March 2, 2001, we reported that Fritz and Patricia Springmeier were members of a group known as the Army of God. This statement was not factually supported and we regret this error.'

This is a step in the right direction. How many other lies need to be retracted? Unfortunately, the media is spreading lies about the Springmeiers much faster than they are retracting them. This is the only retraction by any media agent so far.

Also interesting is that the police report of what they seized at the Springmeier’s home lists 'misc. books', 'misc. papers', and 'misc. mags'. The county sheriff’s web site then reports that what they seized was 'anti-government literature.' This in turn is then reported by the media as 'hate literature'. Using the media’s type of thinking the Declaration of Independence is hate literature. It is a good thing the signers of the Declaration of Independence were not alive today. They most certainly would be arrested for a hate crime for even thinking of a limited law abiding government. The treatment the Springmeiers are receiving for having Patriotic material in the privacy of their own homes shows that the American people are no longer free to read, learn, and think for themselves in the privacy of their own homes. If Americans want to study on how to keep their government legal and honest, they now risk SWAT teams and the television networks intruding into their lives and branding them as terrorists with hate literature.

The Springmeiers are not out of danger. The Feds are dogging them to try to find something to charge them with. They are also getting harassment, and there are other insidious things that the system is doing that cannot be reported on at this time."

Or the fact that Springmeier is cited by a multitude of researchers from many disparate places. Or that Springmeier was incarcerated on trumped up charges by our democratic government.

Do you think what you just did was honest? You have accused someone of being a psychopath based on one unsubstantiated internet article. I surely do not have first hand kknowlkedge of Springmeier, but others in the research community says he has been framed. Of course, whateverhis perosnal problems, what's at issue is the truth of his writings. But rather than address those, we got the standard ad hominem attack on the person. I said, you guys are good, but you're human, all too human. My guess is that this argument has reached the end of its utility.

As for the material in the Gnazzo article (Gnazzo I can assure you is a bright guy and the material speaks for itself as inviting an explanation), I continue to get a knowing hahaha, as if you are flies on the wall in the upper echelons of power. But you are not, are you? And it threatens your own position. I am not trying to personalize any of this in any way, but we all have our biases, myself included. And once we individually or as a group perceive the hard-won "truth", ranks close and no further views get admitted. Especially when it took 30 years of intense soul-searching to get there. But here I am not calling someone a psychopath based on the flimsiest evidence, and the burden of proof is not on me. More generally, notwithstanding your obvious sincerity, persistence and excellence, I think a little more tolerance might be advisable.
 
On behalf of my good friend Fritz Springmeier, I felt compelled to stand up for him and his wife who were recently arrested and then vilified by the media.

Fritz has long been one who loves God, loves this country and his fellow man; and has tried to peacefully bring about social changes for the better through education. Unfortunately, the information he puts out is very detrimental to that nasty little group known as the Illuminati because his books expose them, their tactics, clandestine plans and the organizations they run. Some of those Illuminati-controlled departments like the ATF and FBI which took part in the Springmeiers' arrest are exposed, coincidentally, by Fritz in his books. One can't help but reminisce on their past successes at Waco, Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City Federal Building and several others that deserve honorable mention.
From the Adventures Series:

Many Psychopaths "make their living" by using charm, deceit, and manipulation to gain the confidence of their victims. Many of them can be found in white collar professions where they are aided in their evil by the fact that most people expect certain classes of people to be trustworthy because of their social or professional credentials. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, politicians, psychiatrists and psychologists, generally do not have to earn our trust because they have it by virtue of their positions. But the fact is: psychopaths are found in such lofty spheres also!

At the same time, psychopaths are good imposters. They have absolutely no hesitation about forging and brazenly using impressive credentials to adopt professional roles that bring prestige and power. They pick professions in which the requisite skills are easy to fake, the jargon is easy to learn, and the credentials are unlikely to be thoroughly checked. Psychopaths find it extremely easy to pose as financial consultants, ministers, psychological counselors and psychologists. And that's a scary thought.

Psychopaths make their way by conning people into doing things for them; obtaining money for them, prestige, power, or even standing up for them when others try to expose them. But that is their claim to fame. That's what they do. And they do it very well. What's more, the job is very easy because most people are gullible with an unshakable belief in the inherent goodness of man.

Manipulation is the key to the psychopath's conquests. Initially, the psychopath will feign false emotions to create empathy, and many of them study the tricks that can be employed by the empathy technique. Psychopaths are often able to incite pity from people because they seem like "lost souls" as Guggenbuhl-Craig writes. So the pity factor is one reason why victims often fall for these "poor" people.

Hare cites a famous case where a psychopath was "Man of the Year" and president of the Chamber of Commerce in his small town. (Remember that John Wayne Gacy was running for Jaycee President at the very time of his first murder conviction!) The man in question had claimed to have a Ph.D. from Berkeley. He ran for a position on the school board which he then planned to parlay into a position on the county commission which paid more.

At some point, a local reporter suddenly had the idea to check up on the guy - to see if his credentials were real. What the reporter found out was that the only thing that was true about this up and coming politician's "faked bio" was the place and date of birth. Everything else was fictitious. Not only was the man a complete impostor, he had a long history of antisocial behavior, fraud, impersonation, and imprisonment. His only contact with a university was a series of extension courses by mail that he took while in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary. What is even more amazing is the fact that before he was a con-man, he was a "con-boy." For two decades he had dodged his way across America one step ahead of those he had hoodwinked. Along the way he had married three women and had four children, and he didn't even know what had happened to them. And now, he was on a roll! But darn that pesky reporter!

When he was exposed, he was completely unconcerned. "These trusting people will stand behind me. A good liar is a good judge of people," he said. Amazingly, he was right. Far from being outraged at the fact that they had all been completely deceived and lied to from top to bottom, the local community he had conned so completely to accrue benefits and honors to himself that he had not earned, rushed to his support!

I kid you not! And it wasn't just "token support." The local Republican party chairman wrote about him: "I assess his genuineness, integrity, and devotion to duty to rank right alongside of President Abraham Lincoln." As Hare dryly notes, this dimwit was easily swayed by words, and was blind to deeds.
Take a lesson: don't be a dimwit.
 
Today a notice from the Sorcha Faal group was sent to me as follows:

From: "Sorcha Faal" <sorchafaal@fastmail.fm>
To: sorchafaal@fastmail.fm
Subject: Important Notice: WhatDoesItMean.Com Ceasing Public Operations
Date sent: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:29:54 +0300

Important Notice: WhatDoesItMean.Com Ceasing Public Operations
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/7883.htm
--
Sorcha Faal
sorchafaal@fastmail.fm
I went to the page to see if anything else was said and there was this:


The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
Wonder what's up with that?
 
I received the same email, and did have a chance to review the page before it 'disappeared'. While I didn't take a snapshot of it, the essence was that they were shutting down operations due to the attacks of Bush & Co., and that it wasn't safe to continue operating in the US as it might affect their worldwide operations, etc. etc.

Therefore, if a person was interested in continuing to read their site you had to stump up for $29.95/month to get access to their secure website going forward.

Interesting timing, no...?

Cheers,

John
 
Alchemy said:
While I didn't take a snapshot of it, the essence was that they were shutting down operations due to the attacks of Bush & Co., and that it wasn't safe to continue operating in the US as it might affect their worldwide operations, etc. etc.

Therefore, if a person was interested in continuing to read their site you had to stump up for $29.95/month to get access to their secure website going forward.

Interesting timing, no...?
It is indeed. No sooner do we discover a bit of evidence of plagiarism and obvious agenda, then within a day or two they shut down and "go private." It's also curious that it happened exactly at the time that our site and forum were "taken out" and corrupted so that it took almost two full days to get the darn thing back to full operation. And it is also strange that this comes right along with the stuff about Simon Gray being posted over in the Ponerology forum.

All in all, looks like the cat walked by twice. And maybe it is easier for the cat to do this when Mercury is retrograde!
 
In regards to whomever wrote this drivel:

****EsoQuest
Guest Re: Sorcha Faal/David Booth: COINTELPROI read a bit about de Vere. I gather he claims fairie blood, which is the same as "reptile" blood, from a race that used to reside in the Black Sea basin, and was flooded out after the end of the last ice age. He basically claims that you have no psychic potential if you do not carry the blood of his people (meaning for us common folk that any attraction to the esoteric is due to ancenstry from the results of his royal line sowing their wild oats).

These people basically lay claim to fancy names and titles that are meaningless in themselves, and backed up with riches and influence that were made because they were simply more ruthless psychopaths than everyone else. These people are inbred psychopathic humans with a dinosaur complex.

They can do as much harm as any inbred super-wealthy psychopath (which is a alot). And of course they will cavort with other wealthy psychopaths in dark corners playing dark games, and making up dark stories of Dungeons and Dragons to further justify their psychopathic impulses.

IMO, the sanest thing to do is to strip these fools down to their psychopathic common denominator and throw out all the "occult power" and "divine right" myths. They are insane, probably hereditarily so, and possessed by forces feeding their dreams of grandeur (forces that would toss them in the trash heap of history like a used tissue paper), and probably organized at the behest of the inspiration of their "masters". But in and of themselves, they are descended from uncouth backward inbred peasants and barbarians, and that is their legacy and always will be.

Do away with them, and others will take their place. I'm sure there is already a waiting list!

Last edited by EsoQuest (2006-03-03 02:05:42)****

I am directly related to Nicholas De Vere, and have found his research to be quite enlightening AND accurate. I have no aspirations to be in any way divine or powerful. There is documented proof that the De Vere family IS directly related to many royal families and NEVER in over 1200 years have we laid a claim to the throne of England (barring Mathilda, sister or niece of Godfrey de Vere de Bouillon (who led the first crusade) and wife of King Stephen) I also know for a fact that Nicholas withdrew from his website and does not have personal access to the internet as there is a person or persons claiming to be him and spouting off loads of mumbo jumbo. Yes our family is quite illustrious, but we never wanted the throne, nor to rule the world. My branch of the family moved to Australia in the early 1900's and we have been common everyday folk for hundreds of years. Our only true greatness was before 1670, when we were the nobility. Many members of my extended family have served in almost every war known to man, and have served their countries well. Yes there are links way back to before the time of Nero and in fact to Nero himself, if you trace the family back about 1000 years we are also directly related to Prince's William and Harry. I'm sure if you managed to trace your family back far enough then you could possibly have similar results.
 
Kaaron said:
I am directly related to Nicholas De Vere, and have found his research to be quite enlightening AND accurate.
A quick search provides an as quick RED FLAG!!!
On De Vere's own website in his own short biography, we read:
"Following this period his mother obtained for him works by Aliester Crowley, and he studied the principals of the Black Arts in earnest, gaining a considerable degree of competence in ritual magic. source: http://www.dagobertsrevenge.com/devere/bio.html
 
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