Stainton Moses: Spirit Teachings (“Imperator“ channelling)

Laura

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Yes, very true. It's easy to forget that we have formed a unique way of looking at things over the years. I guess I just wish people had some inkling about a "higher world" out there, and that their deeds count on every level. I know that this was what cut through the thick fog in my own heart and mind when I found this place. I remember how not only did the Wave speak to my heart, but to my rationality as well, and that these two together eventually did the trick after a period of constant doubt. Reading this book reminded me of that, and I wondered how the worldview offered there could do good to people like me back then. It's one thing to have a semi-materialist understanding that morality matters, or some half-felt religious belief that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny; it's another thing to be convinced of a spiritual life "beyond the veil" accessible to reason, of "God watching", and have this inform your every act (or rather aspire to this with all your heart).

Well, it wouldn't be a bad thing to try to re-compose some of the ideas in a better context with less loaded religious overtones? Like a hyperdimensional reality such as the Cs describe?
 

lilies

Dagobah Resident
Chapter One's data matches the info what Owen wrote in Beyond the Veil. The intro is too long however, how the author was an excellent student, health problems, traveled abroad, came back to finish his Oxford degree, yada-yada, useless 'Hasnamuss rants': these introductory chapters could have been summarized into 1-2 pages(!): Forward | Biography | Introduction.
Religious gloss in there isn't that bad at all. Though I had super religious past lives (German priest WW1/WW2, Assyrian pre-Christ group, free thinker taken as "witch" tortured-executed by Spanish Inquisition etc..), so probably the "gloss" don't hit me so hard, doesn't make me feel so annoyed.
Introductory chapter The Imperator's Band begins suspiciously, the spirit dude calling himself Imperator promises a 19th century Seth or Ra, but there is explanation given - where he is coming from - and the era named being near the Fall of the Roman Empire & Chaos + Sodomy & Gomorrhy in people then very much matches everything today. So okay, I accept Imperator & his gang. Little bit funny are the 7x7 groups of spirits in his platoon. One group of his - 7 spirits - aer on probation: who are working on their negative karma and are poltergeist spirits! Haha! :D These colorful groups - responsible for philosophy, sciences, history, art, comedians, being bodyguards, are there - I think - because Moses' character flaw. The seven poltergeist dudes helping to try to prove that this source - their message is divine by manifesting spirit-lights & flying objects + teleporting stuff from the other room, through closed-bolted doors. :D Also it is curious that Imperator had such a powerful band to communicate to the writer, when Reverend Owen had smaller groups not advertised with such strength like nowaday's TV.. Anyway, it will be clear later, as I read on.

I think Owen might have had the same aggrandizing self-biography & 'Hasnamuss rant' section, but it was decided to seriously trim that in the final edit of his books, THANK GOD! :D

Important is the match with G.'s info about wrong crystallization, which is brought over into the afterlife. (info from this book and ==>) A badly crystallized, dead individual is the same in spirit form and has to do serious work, to burn off that negative karma: all such idiots then realize, how hard it is to improve in Long Wave Cycle vs. 3rdD short wave cycle! Thus a distinction of evil spirits is given, who are filled with vices, bad desires and they cannot endure the friendship-circle of purified/good spirits free of vices and free of bad desires, so they go to various deeper layers of "Hell". (this book, matching Beyond the Veil perfectly!)

Lets see Chapter 2 and further. I'm curious why is the material so short: Moses is mentioned having a frail health, probably why. Natural drain on life-force by this spirit communication was taken special care of: by calling an expert and very rare communicator spirit, who takes special care to drain the writers energy as little as possible. Still probably Moses' 'Body Said No..'

I'll have a good idea by comparing the two works: Spirit Teachings and the six book-long Beyond the Veil series.
 
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luc

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The intro is too long however

It has obviously been written posthumously, and I agree that it's a bit over the top. However, I enjoyed reading about the guy's life to get a better understanding of where he was coming from.

Introductory chapter The Imperator's Band begins suspiciously

Notice that the chapter has been added later, Moses didn't include it in the book. I don't think it sets the right tone, although I found it interesting. What I took away from it is that not everyone is the same on the higher planes - there are specializations, talents, interests etc. that come together in a group to achieve something useful. Not everybody needs to be good at everything!

Generally, I think the descriptions of the higher planes are always the least trustworthy in these communications, because we just can't really grasp what's going on. There are lots of interesting clues in these descriptions, but it's easy to get carried away by our imagination. And I also don't think it's very useful to go all theology about these things, i.e. categorizing the different spheres and their differences etc. OSIT
 

Voyageur

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Generally, I think the descriptions of the higher planes are always the least trustworthy in these communications, because we just can't really grasp what's going on. There are lots of interesting clues in these descriptions, but it's easy to get carried away by our imagination. And I also don't think it's very useful to go all theology about these things, i.e. categorizing the different spheres and their differences etc. OSIT

Yes, and like Vale Owen, the communicator tries to do its best to provide something familiar to the receiver (in Owen's case it need a familiar religious overtone it seemed to help). The C's mention this type of situation - you would not understand, you can't conceive of this, type of thing et cetera.

Speaking of Stainton Moses (and much more), great article over at SoTT :-)

 

Laura

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Speaking of Stainton Moses (and much more), great article over at SoTT :-)


Yup. Another great one to spread around on Twitter and FB. Not because we think it will change anything, but because it is the right thing to do.
 

wmu9

Jedi
I hate to see profiteers on Amazon making coin from public domain books (my pet peeve, it ours by right). The Moses books are available free: (edit, better link to search) inauthor:"William Stainton Moses" - Google leit

If I believed in an anti-christ, it would certainly be the twin-demons of Zuckerberg and Bezos who acted as channels for the basest of humans to make careers on their platforms. Poor stupid, Terrance McKenna, thought the internet would bring us together.
 

luc

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Yup. Another great one to spread around on Twitter and FB. Not because we think it will change anything, but because it is the right thing to do.

Speaking of hopelessness, today when I drove to a meeting I heard the news on the radio. These were the stories:

1) Over 500 climate demonstrations today in the country (Fridays for Future), even the unions encourage workers to participate (in their free time), and both catholic and protestant churches ring their bells at noon against climate change!!! WTH?

2) Law against "underskirting" discussed: apparently, it has become a thing that people use their smartphones to make photos and videos under the skirts of unsuspecting girls/women on moving stairs/escalators and the like, and publish them on the net. Jesus! I don't care about a law, but how can this even be a thing!?

3) New law discussed banning smoking from cars, because... passive smoking of children!! They didn't even BOTHER explaining how that would apply to an adult alone in the car!

4) And now, for the sport...

I know this is not the worst stuff going on, but somehow it really got under my skin today. It's not just the fascism and dictatorial control. It's the sheer stupidity of it all! The every-day dumbness and rottenness, the mind control! Sometimes I really wonder how long we still have to endure this slow-motion train-wreck.

Stainton Moses' spirit had this to say about late Rome, which seems apropos:

Obstacles! You know not what they are compared with
what we have had to endure in times past. Had you lived on
earth in the later days of Rome's imperial sway, when every-
thing spiritual had fled in horror from a realm steeped in
debauchery, sensuality, and all that is base and bad, you
would have known then what the banded powers of darkness
can effect. The coldness was the coldness of despair: the
darkness was the gloom of the sepulchre. The body, the body
was all: and the guardians fled in dismay from a scene on
which they could not gaze, and whose pangs they could not
alleviate. Faithlessness there was indeed, and worse. The
world scorned us and our efforts, laughed at all virtue, derided
the Supreme, mocked at immortality, and lived but to eat and
drink and wallow in the mire the degraded, down-stricken,
animals they had made themselves. Ah, yes! say not that
evil is invincible when the power of God and of his Spirits
has prevailed to cleanse even such a sink as that.
 

Tuatha de Danaan

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Read Stainton Moses a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. In a way it reminded me of my Catechism from National school. However, if only a fraction of the book was taught in junior school instead of the above said Catechism, what a head start youngsters would have. My Catechism or later religion classes never explained to me in such a clear and wonderful way the meaning of the Catholic Holy Days. Wonderful. I came away with the strong message ,no matter what your religion or creed may be, personal responsibility is paramount.
 

Mike

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A: Now, we would like to say something of interest to all: Soon things in your realm will become very chaotic and strange. It will give chills to many. Be not alarmed! It will pass and there will be a new reality to explore. Cosmic forces will be displayed and there will be many searching for answers. Be prepared to give the help that is needed. Be together in love and peace. Goodbye.

The C’s have mentioned in a few sessions being ready to help others. This quote is from 28 Dec 2019. The below quote from ‘Spirit Teachings’ got me thinking about how a person can best be prepared and able to help people that don’t have the benefit of years of following along here and putting the effort into reading and learning. It would seem an approach that is externally considerate to the person asking questions and starting to seek the truth and meeting them where they are at in terms of understanding, biases, experiences and knowledge is the ideal approach. I think this quote speaks to that and the two quotes from C’s session below also do.

If someone asks you questions about a topic and you don’t take into account where they are at on the learning cycle, then it could just turn them away in general from you and learning.

A kind of humorous example of the wrong approach and scaring someone off:

Person: I know something is wrong with the political system in the US. What do you think?

You: That is because there are psychopaths in control of most major organizations and occupy most positions of power and influence. And it is likely the psychopaths are being directed and controlled by 4D STS overlords, who are in a hyperdimensional realm ‘above’ ours and want to try to maintain control when the macroscopic quantum transformation, The Wave, happens. Also, by the way, it seems to be the case that the 4D STS overlords feed off of our emotional energy and even feed on us physically at times.

Also, the main thing that caught my eye initially when reading the ‘Spirit Teaching’ quote and thinking about it is that it dovetails well with what the C’s have said in the second C’s quote and it gives an explanation of why a person, such a Laura and W.S. Moses, isn’t given the full, unvarnished, objective truth at times when they are not ready to receive it. And that the C’s or Spirits have an understanding of this and that is one reason why the accuracy can seem to be off.

Can you imagine William Stainton Moses’, who had certain entrenched religious beliefs, reaction if Imperator and the other spirits tried to explain to him that Jesus was Caesar? He might have stopped with what he was doing and totally shut out the message, which was leading him step by step to a fuller understanding of reality.

Finally, it is interesting information to consider in many respects, such as Laura’s research and work on Caesar and Paul, and also in light of some of the things the author points out in his book ‘Paul’s Necessary Sin,’ and I’ll mention and link to this post in a post I’m going to make in that thread, hopefully in the next couple of days.

Stanton Moses’ writing is in italics.

Spirit Teachings pg 60 to 69 said:
Yes; that may be. But the belief in the Divinity of Christ and in His Atonement can scarcely be

called dogmas which are human growth. You always prefix to your name the sign of the Cross
[+IMPERATOR]. I presume, therefore, that in your lifetime on earth you must have held these dogmas.

+
Rector—another communication spirit, who also uses the sign of the Cross—must almost if not altogether have died for them. Here, then, seems to me to be a contradiction.

Suppose the dogmas to be unnecessary or mistaken truths—suppose them even to be false—what am I to conclude? Have you changed your opinions? Or were you a Christian while you lived on earth? or were you not? If not, why the Cross? If you were, why the change of sentiment? The whole question intimately concerns your identity. I cannot see how your teaching coincides with your belief when you lived on earth. It is pure and beautiful, but surely it is not Christian. Nor is it the teaching which one who uses the sign of the Cross would reasonable be expected to promulgate. So it seems to me. If I speak in ignorance, enlighten my ignorance. If I seem to be too curious, I must be excused, seeing that I have no means of judging you but by your words and deeds. So far as I am able to judge, your words and deeds are alike noble and elevated, pure and rational, but not Christian. I only desire such reasonable ground for forming an opinion as may satisfy my present doubts and difficulties.


It shall be given in due course. Cease now.

[The writing, though I earnestly desired and strove to obtain it, did not come until 20th June. The previous message was written on the 16th.]

I salute you, good friend. We would now give you more information, touching points which have perplexed and distressed you. You would know how far the sign of the Cross may legitimately be associated with our teaching. We will show you this.

Friend, the sign which is emblematic of the life and work of Jesus the Christ is one that cannot fairly be prefixed to much that now passes current for His teaching. The tendency of all classes of religionists has ever been to make much of the letter and to neglect the spirit: to dwell at large on expressions drawn from individual writers, and to neglect the general drift of teaching. Men have gone with preconceived notions to search for the truth, and have found that which they expected. Single words and expressions have been drawn out of their context by those who have professed to comment on the texts of your sacred books until they have been made to bear a meaning which their writers never intended. Others have gone to the authors solely to find words to prop up a theory without even the poor pretence of seeking after truth; and they, too, have been able to dig out something which has served their purpose.

And so, by slow degrees, the edifice has grown, built up laboriously by men who delight to dwell on peculiarities of language and expression, and by men who, having evolved for themselves an idea, strive only that it may be confirmed. Neither class has any idea beyond the text of the sacred records which lies before it.

We said before that much of what we should have to say to you would turn on what you understand by Divine inspiration.

Those who are known to you as the orthodox defenders of the Christian creed tell you that a mysterious person—one of the three individual persons who compose the Undivided Trinity—took possession of the minds of certain men, and through their organisms gave to your world a body of truth, which was whole, complete, and of eternal force: a system of Divine philosophy from which nothing might be removed under the direst ban; to which nothing would ever be added; and which was the immediate word, the very utterance, the mind and will of God, containing within it the whole body of truth, actual and potential, contained in divinely worded phrases and expressions. Not only are the sentiments of David and Paul, Moses and John, consonant with the will of the Supreme, but they are the very thoughts of Deity. Not only are the words divinely approved, but they are the very diction of the Supreme. In short, the Bible is the very Word of God, both in matter and form: every word is Divine, and fit to be studied and expounded as such, even in that version of it which is translated into your language by men who, to complete the marvel, are again supposed to be in their turn the recepients of Divine truth and guidance in their work of translation.

Hence, you will see that doctrines the most tremendous, and conclusions the most far-reaching may be founded upon mere words and expressions, for is not every word and turn of phrase the revelation of God divinely preserved from admixture of human error? These are they who have grounded a number of dogmas on phrases picked out at their pleasure, neglecting and passing over all that pleases them not. To such the Bible is the direct utterance of the Supreme.

Those who have abandoned this view have entered upon a process of destructive handling of the Bible, the only termination of which is the view which we shall put for your acceptance. They revere the sacred records which compose your Bible as being the records of God’s truth revealed to man from age to age, even as it is still being revealed. They study the records as showing man’s progressive grasp of knowledge of God and of the destiny of the spirit. They watch the gradual unfolding of this revelation from times of ignorance and brutal barbarism when He was known as the friend of Abraham, who ate and conversed at the tent door, or the Judge who governed His people, or the King who fought at the head of the armies of Israel, or the Tyrant revealed through the medium of some seers, down to the time when He became known in His truer character of tenderness, and love, and fatherly kindness and compassion. In all this they see growth, and they will believe, if they pursue their investigations to the end, that such growth has never ceased; that such progressive revelations has never been closed; and that man’s knowledge of his God is far from complete, though his capacity for receiving that knowledge is ever enlarging his means of satisfying the craving that is within him. And so the seeker after truth will be prepared to receive our teaching on this head at least. To such we address ourselves. To those who fondly fancy that they possess a perfect knowledge we say nothing. Before we can deal with them they must learn to know their ignorance of all that concerns God and Revelation. Anything that we could say would glide off the impenetrable defence of ignorance, self-conceit, and dogmatism in which they are encased. They must be left to unlearn hereafter in pain and sorrow that which has so retarded their spiritual growth, and will be so dire a barrier to future progress. If you have rightly understood what we have previously put before you, we may now proceed to add further some words on the nature of revelation and the character of inspiration.

We say, then, to you that the sacred books which make up your Bible, together with many others which are not included in it, are the records of that gradual growth in knowledge of Himself which the great and good God has given to man. The principle which pervades all these utterances is one and the same: identical with that which governs our intercourse with you. So much of truth is given as man can grasp; no more under any circumstances, but just so much as he can grasp, so much as suffices for his present craving. That truth is revealed through the instrumentality of a man, and is always more or less mixed with the thoughts and opinions of the medium. Nay, the communicating spirits are perforce obliged to use the material which is found in the medium’s mind, moulding and fashioning it for their purpose: erasing fallacies, inspiring new views of truth, but working on the material which is already gathered. The purity of the spirit message depends much on the passivity of the medium and on the conditions under which the message is communicated. Hence, in your Bible there are traces here and there of the individuality of the medium; of errors caused by imperfect control; of the colour of his opinions; as well as of special peculiarities addressed to the special needs of the people to whom the message was first given, and for whose case it was primarily adapted.

You may see for yourself numerous cases of this. If Isaiah spoke to the people the words of the message with which he was charged, he impressed upon that message the individuality of his own mind, and adapted it to the peculiar needs of the people to whom he spoke. He told, indeed, of the one Supreme God, but he told of Him in strains of poesy and ecstatic imagery far different from the metaphorical and characteristic imagery of Ezekiel. Daniel had his visions of glory; Jeremiah, his burdens of the Lord who spoke through him; Hosea, his mystic symbolism: each in his individual fashion told of the same Jehovah, as he knew Him, but each told his message in his own style, as it had been revealed to him. Similarly, in later days, the characteristic nature of individual communications was preserved. If Paul and Peter found occasion to speak of the same truth, they almost necessarily viewed it from different sides. The truth was not less true because two men of varying minds viewed it from different points, and dealt with it in his own way. The individuality of the medium is palpable in the manner if not in the matter of the communication. The inspiration is Divine, but the medium is human.

Hence it is that man may find in the Bible the reflex of his own mind, whatever the tone of that mind maybe. The knowledge of God is so small: that which man has grasped of His nature is so little, that each person who lives on past revelations, and cannot or will not extend them, must find in the Bible the reflex of his mind. He goes to find his own ideal, and lo! it is mirrored for him in the utterances of those who spoke for persons on his mental plane. If no one seer can satisfy his ideal, he selects from many the points which please him, rejects the remainder, and manufactures his own revelation piecemeal. So it is with all sects. Each frame its own ideal, and proves it by revelations taken from the Bible. None can accept the whole, because the whole is not homogeneous. But each picks out its suitable pieces, and from them frames its revelation. When they are brought face to face with others who have picked out other passages, then comes the twisting and distorting of words, the explanation (so they call it) and the commenting on text: the darkening of plain meaning: the interpreting of sayings in a sense never meant either by the communicating spirit or by the prophet or teacher. By this means inspiration becomes a vehicle for sectarian opinions; the Bible, an armoury from which each disputant may draw his favourite weapon; and theology, a matter of private notion, backed up by false and misleading interpretation.

With a theology so framed, we are accused of being at variance. It is true. We have no commerce with it. It is of the earth, earthy; base and low in its conception of God; degrading in its influence on the soul; insulting to the Deity whom it professes to reveal. We have no part in it. We do indeed contract and disown it. It is our mission to reverse its teaching, to substitute for it truer and nobler views of God and of the Spirit.

Another reason why much that is false with respect to God is current among you, as derived from the Bible, is, that the assumption of infallible inspiration leads men not only to lay too much stress on words and phrases, but also to fall into the error of interpreting too literally that which was intended to be spiritual and typical interpretation. In communicating to your mental plane ideas which are to you inconceivable, we are obliged to use expressions which are borrowed from your ways of thought. We ourselves are very frequently at fault in misusing such expressions; or they are themselves inadequate to convey our meaning. Almost all spirit utterances are typical. Especially when spirits have endeavoured to convey to men ideas of the great God of whom they themselves know so little, the language used is necessarily very imperfect, inadequate, and frequently ill-chosen. But it is always typical, and must be so understood. To press to the end of literal accuracy any spirit-teaching about God is mere folly.

Moreover, the revelations of God have been made in language suited to the capacities of those to whom they were originally given, and are to be so interpreted. But they who have framed for themselves the idea of an infallible revelation applicable through all time interpret every word literally, and so deduce erroneous conclusions. The hyperbole which was intelligible in the mouth of the impulsive seer who uttered it to an imaginative and enthusiastic Eastern hearer becomes overstrained, untrue, and misguiding when coldly interpreted in the light of comment and verbal exactness to those whose habits of thought and language are widely different or even totally dissimilar.

It is this cause that we must attribute many views of the Supreme which are alike false and dishonouring to Him. The original language was inadequate enough; it has become coloured more or less by the medium through whom it has passed, and is then less adequate than before. But interpreted as we have pointed out, it becomes positively false; and is in no sense the revelation of God. Rather it is man’s notion about a Deity whom he has framed for himself—framed as really as the image which the savage forms for his fetish.

With such views, again, we have no accord. Them, too, we denounce, and our mission is to substitute for them a truer and nobler knowledge. Moreover, in dealing with you, spirits always proceed in one uniform manner. They are sent to communicate through a human medium some portion of Divine truth. In the medium’s mind they find a growth of opinions, some false, some partly true, some distorted and befogged by early prejudice and training. Are these to be eradicated before the truer ideas are suggested? Is the mind to be completely cleared of all preconceived ideas? By no means. It is not so we act. Were we to do so the work of eradication would be so tedious that we should risk leaving the mind bare of teaching altogether, and should have destroyed without being able to create. No; we take the opinions already existent, and mould them into closer semblance of truth. All have in some sort the germ of truth, or we destroy them. With such as contain truth, we strive to grapple, and to mould and form them to progress and advancement in knowledge. We know of how little worth are the theological notions to which men attach so much importance; and we are content to leave them to die in the brighter light to which we lead the soul, while we supply the needed information on important topics. Only we must eradicate dogmatism. That is all-important. Opinion, when harmless, we do not meddle with.

Hence it is that theological notions may remain very much what they were, only toned down and softened in their asperities. So men falsely say that spirits always teach that which a man has previously believed. It is far from being so. What we now teach you is sufficient proof of that. The spirit-guides do indeed work on that which they find already in the mind; but they mould and temper it, and imperceptibly change and adapt it to their ends. It is only when the views held are such as they cannot work upon, or of a positive and dogmatic type, that the change wrought becomes plain to your eyes. You find a man who has denied the existence of God and of spirit, who has believed only what he can see and feel and handle; such a materialist you see converted to a belief in God and a future existence, and you wonder at the change. But the spirit that has been tempered, and chastened, and softened: that has been purified, and refined, and elevated: whose rude and rough beliefs have been toned and softened, of this change you make no note, because it is too gradual and subtle to be perceptible to your senses. Yet such are the glorious results of our daily work. The crude is softened; the hard, and cold, and cheerless are warmed into loving life; the pure is refined; the noble ennobled; the good made better; the yearning soul satisfied with richer views of its God and of its future happiness.

The opinions have not been suppressed, but they have been modified and changed. This is the real existent spirit influence all around of which ye know nothing as yet: the most real and blessed part of spirit ministry.

When, therefore, men say that spirits speak only the medium’s preconceived opinions, they are partly right. The opinions, in so far as they are harmless, are the previous ones, only moulded in a way not perceptible to your gaze as yet. When the opinions are hurtful, they are eradicated and destroyed. When we deal with special forms of theological creed, we strive, in so far as we can, to spiritualise previous opinion rather than eradicate it. We know—as you cannot know—of how trifling moment are forms of faith, provided the faith be alive and spiritual: and we strive, therefore, to build on the foundation already laid. To this end, however, whilst the broad outlines, which are in themselves partially

truthful, or which embody as much of truth as the intelligence can grasp, are preserved, much that is false and delusive must be cleared away. So the work of destruction precedes the work of construction. The soul is purged of gross error, and the truth is refined and purified as far as may be.
Hence it is that we do usually teach a modification of the views of truth held by those to whom we speak.

And now, friend, you will see the bearing of this on your difficulty. We have endeavoured, not to uproot from your mind the views which you have entertained of theology, but to modify them. If you will recall the past, you will see how your creed has gradually widened from a very narrow basis to a comprehensive and rational one. You have, under our guidance, been made acquainted with the theological tenets of many churches and sects. You have been led to see, in each, the germ of truth, more or less developed, but clouded with human error. You have studied, for yourself, the writings of the teachers of religion among the Christian world, and your own creed has been toned down and softened in its asperities by the divergent views of truth so let in upon it. The process has been long and gradual from the days when you were influenced to the study of ancient philosophies to later days, when systems of theology filtered through it, and left behind them that which you were able to assimilate.

The fixed and changeless creed of the Eastern branch of the Christian Church, with its crystallised dogmas no longer living and breathing truths; the destructive criticism of German scholars who have dealt a much-needed blow to blind belief in the verbal exactitude of human utterances; the speculations of advanced thought in your own country and Church; the ideas of those external to it, and even to the creed of Christendom—of all these have you learned, and have retained from the several systems that which was serviceable to you. It has been a long and very gradual work, and now we wish to carry you further, and to show you the ideal truth, spiritual, impalpable, but most real, which underlies all with which you are familiar. We would strip off the earthly body, and show you the real, vital truth in its spiritual significance.

We would have you know that the spiritual ideal of Jesus the Christ is no more like the human notion, with its accessories of atonement and redemption, as men have grasped them, than was the calf ignorantly carved by the ancient Hebrews like the God who strove to reveal Himself to them. We wish to show you, as you can grasp it, the spiritual truths which underlie the life of Him who is known to you as the Saviour, the Redeemer, the Son of God. We would tell you of the true significance of the life of the Christ, and show you, as we can, how low and mean are the views of Him which we are striving to do away with.

You ask how the sign of the Cross can be prefixed to such teaching. Friend, the spiritual truth of which that sign is typical is the very cardinal truth which it is our special mission to declare. The self-denying love which would benefit humanity even at the sacrifice of life and home and earthly happiness—the pure spirit of Christ, this is what we would declare to you as the godlike spirit. This is the true salvation from meanness and self-aggrandisement, and self-pleasing and luxurious sloth, which can redeem humanity, and make of men the children of God. This self-abnegation and incarnate love is that which can atone for sin, and make man like to God. This is the true atonement! Not, indeed, a reconciliation of sin-stained humanity to an angry and holy God, purchased by the sacrifice of His sinless son, but a higher and truer atonement in the ennobling of the nature, the purifying of the spirit; the making of the human and the divine, ONE in aim and purpose:—the drawing of man’s spirit, even whilst incarned, up nearer and nearer to the Divine.

This was the mission of Christ. In this He was a manifestation of God: the son of God: the Saviour of man: the Reconciler: the Atoner: and herein we perpetuate His work, we carry on His mission, we work under His symbol, we fight against the enemies of His faith, against all who ignorantly or willfully dishonour Him, even though it be under the banner of orthodoxy and under the protection of His Name.

Much that we teach must still be new and strange even to those who have progressed in knowledge; but the days shall come when men shall recognise the oneness of Christ’s teaching on earth with ours; and the human garb, gross and material, in which it has been shrouded, shall be rent asunder, and men shall see the true grandeur of the life and teaching of Him whom they ignorantly worship. In those days they shall worship with no less reality, but with a more perfect knowledge; and they shall know that the sign under which we speak is the symbol of purity and self-sacrificing love to them and to their brethren for all time. This end it is our earnest endeavour to attain. Judge of our mission by this standard, and it is of God, godlike: noble as He is noble: pure as He is pure: truth giving as He is true: elevating, and saving, and purifying the spirit from the grossness of earthly conceptions and raising it to the very atmosphere and neighbourhood of the spiritual and the divine.

Ponder our words: and seek for guidance, if not through us, then through Him who sent us, even as, in earlier days, He sent that exalted spirit of purity, charity, and self-sacrifice, whom men called Jesus, and who was the Christ.

Him we adore even now. His Name we reverence.

His words we echo. His teaching lives again in ours.

He and we are of God: and in His Name we come.

+ IMPERATOR.


12 July 2014 said:
Q: (L) Let me come back to that. I'm not quite ready for that yet. I want to ask one other question. When I asked the question about Jesus or something, and there was something about three days in a comatose state, 96 hours of clear-channel meditation, emergence, prophesying to his followers, and then ascending into a mother ship? WHERE did that come from??

A: You and Frank mostly.

Q: (Andromeda) Did anything similar to that happen?

(L) You want to know did anything similar to that take place with anybody, at any time?

A: No

Q: (L) So, Frank was onto the UFOs, and I was pretty determined that something remarkable must have happened. So between the two of us and our extremely strong invested beliefs, I don't see how anything else could have come through.

(Perceval) That story about Jesus coming to the cave, or being placed in a cave... That comes straight from your biblical...

(L) My biblical training! And the UFO, Frank was all about UFOs! [laughter]

(Perceval) Trance meditation, you were fairly into that at the time.

(L) So, it occurs to me that in terms of many of the transcripts, probably the best information is when we didn't have any beliefs or assumptions about anything at all. We were just asking out of pure curiosity.

A: Yes

Q: (L) Okay, well, I'm going to try to avoid having any beliefs or assumptions here about Caesar.




13 December 2104 said:
(L) So, my question is: He asks why couldn't the C's have just said, "'You are not ready to receive the truth', or something similar like they have before, instead of espousing disinformation?" So, can you comment?

A: First of all, there was no "disinformation." The character known by the moniker "Jesus" is a composite of numerous myths as well as based on the life of a real historical person and still another.

Q: (L) What do you mean, "and still another"?

A: Another person who made less historical impact. One must also consider the story segments taken from other literature of the time. Secondly, what would you have done if we had told you either all of such details or that "Jesus" did not exist?

Q: (L) You're asking me?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I would have terminated the project because at the time, I was quite convinced that any spirit that couldn't or wouldn’t acknowledge Jesus was demonic. That was a pretty common “test” in New Age land at the time. I would have stopped communicating with the C's altogether.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) That was...

(Pierre) So there was no choice.

(L) That was how convinced I was at the time.

(Pierre) So they couldn't be straightforward.


A: Suppose you are communicating from a realm of light, knowledge and truth into a realm of darkness, ignorance and lies? Next assume that you really want the recipient to come to the truth.

Q: (Pierre) Yeah, so, what would you do?

A: How can darkness receive light? You must utilize conceptual themes and the material you have to work with. The veils that must be penetrated consist of assumptions, beliefs, and programs of strong emotions.

Q: (Perceval) No easy task!

A: The veil can only be penetrated by sowing conceptual seeds which include notable conflicts of information. Such seeds falling on the fertile ground of a pure desire for truth will sprout and drive the actions that lead to penetrating the veil. Most people "can't stand the truth."

Q: (L) But why didn't you just say, "You're not ready to receive the truth"?

A: Would that have piqued your curiosity?

Q: (L) No, it wouldn't have piqued my curiosity. It would have just suggested to me that you guys didn't know anything.

A: Exactly!

Q: (Perceval) Yeah, it's very difficult. Even just theoretically you can imagine trying to navigate anybody's assumptions and emotional programs and trying to convey truth through all of that. How would you go about it without treading on any sore spots...

(Mr. Scott) But we do know it.

(Perceval) To some extent, but I mean...

(Mr. Scott) I mean, to just write something on SOTT that reveals the truth, and people react to it. And that's just at a very basic level.

(Ark) It's like when you talk to a child. If you say, "You are not ready to receive the truth". I mean... [laughter]

(L) The only time they ever refused me was when it was something that would be dangerous to me.

(Perceval) Right, and they told you.

(L) And they told me they couldn't tell me.

(Perceval) But if they would have told you that you were not ready, that would have just provoked you, and you wouldn't have let it go. Especially around Jesus, if you're not ready to know the truth about it. Ya know, like, "About Jesus?! I wanna know the truth right now! You better fess up!"

(L) Well, I tell you, some of their answers about some of the alien questions where they couldn't tell me something right then, that actually made me turn away from it right then. It was like, "Nyah nyah-nyah nyah-nyah!" like little kids. So, I just decided that path wasn't the right one. I just continued research along certain other lines. And that's when, as I said, I came to the idea that the whole "alien reality" is a paranormal reality. Yes, it does have a very physical manifestation, but that manifestation is through people. It's through human beings. Yes, they can manifest visually in our world and a few other things. And if they break down in our world, artifacts remain – or so we are told... From the paranormal side, there are ectoplasmic things or something similar that can be left in our world. There are things that can be transported from one dimension to another, from past to future, or so we are told and I’ve seen some evidence. There ARE all those kinds of things. But primarily, the alleged alien reality interacts with our world as a paranormal phenomenon. That means that we need to look more carefully at what happens to people and with people.

(Pierre) Just about the way the C's addressed how to deliver to truth and how far to go... It reminded me. You know when we had those EE classes, we often encountered people who had a genuine interest. They wanted to know, at least to some extent. During those conversations, all the time, you're testing to see how far you could go, how much you can say, like about psychopathology, and so on. You could deliver a lot about many topics. But, by going slowly and testing, you can see, "Well, here, I can say some more, but there, I cannot go!" You don't dump it all on a person because there is a genuine interest, and this person might be open to something, but only gradually... There are many things about our reality that are totally shocking to the average person.

(L) And you know if you go too far, you'll turn them off completely! You'll actually give energy to their rejection of what you're saying.

(Pierre) Yeah!

(Chu) But it also speaks to how the Cs would be you in the future, too. Another person when they're told, "No, you're not ready to know," they would focus ONLY on that. "Well, what do you mean I'm not ready! Tell me all about it!" That would be a source of disinformation, because it would be asking for a lie just because that person thinks they have the whole banana. But you didn't, because they knew...

(L) It was like dropping breadcrumbs through the forest.

(Perceval) I think it was even more crucial in your case, because like on SOTT, I can say, "Here's the full truth, and if you don't like it, go take a walk!" That kind of thing... But the C's weren't in a position where they could do that with you. They had to be extremely careful not to provoke that reaction in you since you were on a pre-destined mission between yourself in the future and yourself now.

(L) Yeah, and I have a pretty stubborn streak...

(Perceval) You might have dissed the whole thing! There's much more risk here. It's a much more weighty issue as they just indicated: transmitting truth and light into a realm of lies and darkness.

(L) And it seems that the truth is that there are a number of people who fit into the Jesus puzzle... The information they gave was true about a couple of aspects of the Jesus character.

(Perceval) And they kept in mind what you could receive and not receive...

(L) And then they dropped those hints... "Children with Roman women." That just drove me crazy! That was such a hint!

(Andromeda) It was one of those seeds.

(L) Yeah, and it just grew and grew and grew in me. That was one of the reasons why I went into the whole Roman history thing and now have found pretty much all of the clues that demonstrate that everything the Cs said about Jesus then, and now, is true.

(Perceval) That's why people like this HumbertoLVX guy, they're into from the point of view of "Just give me the answers." They don't even know what they can or cannot perceive themselves.

(L) It's a complete misunderstanding of, or an inability, to comprehend the true nature of STS and STO.

(Pierre) And it's also very black and white thinking. There's a saying going like that, that if you were delivered the whole truth about the universe right now, you would just blow like a fuse.

(L) This is true. You have to build the vessel.

(Pierre) Yeah, and grow it.

(L) You have to so completely widen your field of knowledge and understanding that it’s amazing to me now. Back then I was pretty well up on things in many fields, but only now do I realize how much I didn’t know. Your range and depth of knowledge has to get bigger and bigger and bigger, because then when you finally come to something, a crucial clue, and you come to it in the natural way, it's like a zillion pieces of the puzzle that you've been loading into your brain for years all of a sudden clicks into place. You just feel completely different about it. But anyhow, that kind of leads us into our next topic, which is Eve Lorgen and her Love Bite Scenario, which has apparently been taken up by Bernhard and Humberto. They are... well, maybe you can give a little background on this, Perceval.
 

Voyageur

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If someone asks you questions about a topic and you don’t take into account where they are at on the learning cycle, then it could just turn them away in general from you and learning.

And the C's hit the mark:

A: How can darkness receive light? You must utilize conceptual themes and the material you have to work with. The veils that must be penetrated consist of assumptions, beliefs, and programs of strong emotions.

Q: (Perceval) No easy task!

A: The veil can only be penetrated by sowing conceptual seeds which include notable conflicts of information. Such seeds falling on the fertile ground of a pure desire for truth will sprout and drive the actions that lead to penetrating the veil. Most people "can't stand the truth."

Good reminder, thanks.

In the above with Stainton Moses, the Cross comes up, and in 'Paul's Necessary Sin' (PNS), the 'cross' comes up often enough in the name starus in Greek, or 'pale' (post, stake) - which goes further as in, keep aligned by the stake.

That seemed to me like Paul was "sowing conceptual seeds" (as the C's said) rather than what peep's in time have come to believe, and were even perhaps programed to believe that has been backstopped in words and iconography through the ages.
 

Alejo

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The C’s have mentioned in a few sessions being ready to help others. This quote is from 28 Dec 2019. The below quote from ‘Spirit Teachings’ got me thinking about how a person can best be prepared and able to help people that don’t have the benefit of years of following along here and putting the effort into reading and learning. It would seem an approach that is externally considerate to the person asking questions and starting to seek the truth and meeting them where they are at in terms of understanding, biases, experiences and knowledge is the ideal approach. I think this quote speaks to that and the two quotes from C’s session below also do.

I think this is key, how to help someone is truly crucial. I don’t think it’s as easy as waiting for people to ask and then deliver. And sometimes this help May take many different forms.

Added to what you already pointed out above in terms of recognizing where someone is on their path, I would add that in some cases that help may simply be in the form of inspiration, so living one’s life in the best way possible might be enough help to others. Sometimes it may require empathic listening and discerning and respond when people are truly asking, as sometimes even if people are asking, they’re not expecting an answer or a true one at that.

In some cases we will be personally invested in someone changing their choices because of what we consider to be best for them, and they’ll askew our view and our judgement of what help truly means, in those cases we will be helping ourselves. So this one requires a lot of self awareness and work on the self.

So it’s not a simple question to navigate at all.
 

Altair

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I recently finished Letters from the Afterlife: A Guide to the Other Side by Elsa Barker and it was pretty interesting read despite the guy from 5D being sometimes repetitive. According to him the most people from 5D are as ignorant as people on the 3D Earth. They retain the same habits, addictions, the same belief systems (including religious ones). There are even religious quarrellings between adherents of different religions there. People who denied afterlife after coming to 5D fall into a deep sleep because of their strong beliefs that there is no afterlife and that they are really dead. The most people there remember only their last incarnation and even this one vaguely.

Knowledge there is not much more freely available than in 3D: you have to dig it in libraries and/or look for advanced teachers. Many people there don't even realize that the matter in 5D is much more lighter than in 3D and is more easily formable by thoughts. But again, you have to learn how to do it.

So, "no free lunch" holds true even for 5D :-) .
 
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