Surgery for 10 and a Half Year Old Pug

[Lirpa]

Just an update...took Ruby in again today and they were finally able to express the left sac!

They also did some laser light therapy on it and I will take her back on Friday and then on Monday for two more laser therapy treatments.

@Herr, how long should I continue the silicea pellets?

Thank you again Herr for the assistance and thank you to everyone else for the support and food tips!

 

[Gimpy]

Glad to hear she's doing so well! Hope she's dancing around happy soonest!

 

[Z...]

@Herr, how long should I continue the silicea pellets?

At least until Friday, if they manage to express the other sack you can stop then.

 

[Foxx]

Glad to hear that she's doing well, April!! :)

 

[Lirpa]

@Herr, how long should I continue the silicea pellets?

At least until Friday, if they manage to express the other sack you can stop then.

The left sac was the one that was clogged for the past two weeks but they were finally able to express it today. The right sac was okay and expressed fine a couple of weeks ago.

Woo hoo! Ruby has about had enough though with the huge husband vet that has huge hands and fingers! lol poor thing. She prefers the petite wife vet with the small hands and fingers ;)

 

[Nienna]

Glad to hear that things are going better now, April. The poor little girl.

 

[Z...]

@Herr, how long should I continue the silicea pellets?

At least until Friday, if they manage to express the other sack you can stop then.

The left sac was the one that was clogged for the past two weeks but they were finally able to express it today. The right sac was okay and expressed fine a couple of weeks ago.

In that case there is no need to continue with Silica.

 

[Lirpa]

Update on Ruby. She is very sick. She was fine yesterday. Got up in the morning and she played tennis ball and we went for walk. She ate her food and drank water, peed/pooped just fine. Then when my landlord let her out to go potty at 6PM she noticed that she was lethargic and kind of blah. When I got home from work at 9:30, there was vomit on the floor. She could not keep water down so she is dehydrated.

I was up all night with her and she is at the vet now. I did not take her to the ER vet that is 45 minutes away because he is a hack and I know a few people's dogs that have died in his care so I waited to take her in when my regular vet opened this morning.

She has an acute severe pancreatic attack. Her white blood cells are sky high so there is an infection. Her blood sugars are 398 so the simmering pancreas problems she has had probably caused the diabetes.

This is the only big attack that she has had since 2009 but has mild pancreas issues on and off since then. She was in a lot of pain all last night and this morning.

They are keeping her for the day at the vet's office on IV fluids, gave her an injection to quiet the pancreas and stop the vomiting and an antibiotic injection. I have to go pick her up late afternoon which at that time they will give me instructions on insulin injections. Of course, they want me to buy the Hill's Prescription Diet for Diabetic Dogs but I will be declining that because it is crap food. She is currenly on Castor and Pollux Grain-Free wet food and Castor and Pollux Adult Dry food.

 

[Z...]

April, I know you have a busy lifestyle but do understand there is no such thing as grain free dry food. Its impossible to make dry food without complex carbs, and your dog shouldn't get any.
If you manage to keep her meals with zero carbs and plenty of animal fat perhaps there wont be need for insulin.

 

[Lirpa]

April, I know you have a busy lifestyle but do understand there is no such thing as grain free dry food. Its impossible to make dry food without complex carbs, and your dog shouldn't get any.
If you manage to keep her meals with zero carbs and plenty of animal fat perhaps there wont be need for insulin.

Her wet-food says grain free but it does have potatoes. Here is the ingredient list and guaranteed analysis:


http://www.castorpolluxpet.com/product/organix-grain-free-adult-dog-food-chicken-vegetable-formula
ORGANIC CHICKEN, WATER SUFFICIENT FOR PROCESSING, ORGANIC TURKEY, ORGANIC CHICKEN LIVER, ORGANIC PEA FLOUR, ORGANIC CARROTS, ORGANIC POTATOES, ORGANIC APPLES, ORGANIC GUAR GUM, ORGANIC FLAXSEED MEAL, SALT, TRICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, MINERALS (IRON AMINO ACID CHELATE, ZINC AMINO ACID CHELATE, COBALT AMINO ACID CHELATE, COPPER AMINO ACID CHELATE, MANGANESE AMINO ACID CHELATE, SODIUM SELENITE, POTASSIUM IODIDE), ORGANIC GARLIC, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, VITAMINS (VITAMIN E, A, B12, D3 SUPPLEMENTS, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, BIOTIN, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT).

CRUDE PROTEIN (MIN.) 7.50%
CRUDE FAT (MIN.) 6.00%
CRUDE FIBER (MAX.) 1.00%
MOISTURE (MAX.) 78.00%

What is your opinion about the ingredient list for her grain-free wetfood since it does have potatoes and other carbs in it?

You are completely right about the dry food.

Her dry food that I add to the wet food for crunch although wheat-free, is not grain-free so I should remove it since it does have quinoa, millet, brown rice and oats :(.

My landlord loaned me her Dr. Pitcairn book that has recipes for a homemade diet for pancreatitis and diabetes but those recipes do have carbs in them. Are those recipes okay or is there a way I can adjust the Pitcairn recipies for zero carbs? I googled zero carb diet for canine diabetes but all of the recipes have either brown rice or oats and also carbs from veggies.

Ruby is home now and better. They sent her home with pain meds and antibiotics in an liquid suspension. I told the vet that I wanted to hold off on starting the insulin and try to resolve the diabetes with diet. I noticed that prednisone does cause pancreatitis and diabetes so I wonder if that is what caused the flare up of her pancreas since she has not had a severe attack like this in years. The vet seems to think it was the bone marrow in the raw beef soup bones I gave her. I am not sure I agree with that though...what are your thoughts?

How much fat should I put in her diet considering the pancreatitis issues?

Thank you :)

 

[Z...]

Yes in fact I was thinking that prednisone+stress must have caused this flare up, but don't beat yourself about it as the only other alternative was surgery and that would have had even worse consequences.
I am not surprised at the advice of your vet- this is always repeated like a mantra - fatty food causes pancreatitis but this really makes very little sense. Wild canids get most of their energy from fat and protein and very little carbs. Yes exocrine part of pancreas secretes the enzyme called lipase which is essential for fat digestion but we have to take into account that pancreas in domestic dogs has struggle on a daily bases under very high carb load and constantly perform endocrine function by secreting insulin - which is something pancreas is not meant to do (all the time). Therefore no wonder exocrine function will go berserk.

I would suggest until things settle to feed highly digestible food rich in proteins such as liver, fish and lean meat, and once the pancreas has settled slowly increase the amount of fat.
You can feed very limited amount of carbs through vegetables such as carrots during this period and later decrease the carbs and increase the fat. Also make sure to supplement omega 3 fatty acids. Cator-pollux looks like its loaded with carbs.
If you don't have time to prepare meals BARF commercial food seems like a good option.

 

[Laura]

Canned mackerel or sardines???

 

[Nienna]

I've read in articles on sott that the Inuit used to feed their dogs the lean meat while they ate the fattier parts. It was also said that dogs can handle lean meats better and they don't have the problems with it that humans do.

Is this correct, HE? If so, maybe eating the more leaner meats won't hurt April's little companion that much while she is healing.

 

[Lirpa]

Yes in fact I was thinking that prednisone+stress must have caused this flare up, but don't beat yourself about it as the only other alternative was surgery and that would have had even worse consequences.
I am not surprised at the advice of your vet- this is always repeated like a mantra - fatty food causes pancreatitis but this really makes very little sense. Wild canids get most of their energy from fat and protein and very little carbs. Yes exocrine part of pancreas secretes the enzyme called lipase which is essential for fat digestion but we have to take into account that pancreas in domestic dogs has struggle on a daily bases under very high carb load and constantly perform endocrine function by secreting insulin - which is something pancreas is not meant to do (all the time). Therefore no wonder exocrine function will go berserk.

I would suggest until things settle to feed highly digestible food rich in proteins such as liver, fish and lean meat, and once the pancreas has settled slowly increase the amount of fat.
You can feed very limited amount of carbs through vegetables such as carrots during this period and later decrease the carbs and increase the fat. Also make sure to supplement omega 3 fatty acids. Cator-pollux looks like its loaded with carbs.

I have some lean ground turkey that I bought for now until the pancreas calms down. So just add omega 3 fatty acids and some carrots but not bonemeal and other supplements until later?

If you don't have time to prepare meals BARF commercial food seems like a good option.

When you say commercial food do you mean the commercially prepared raw meat chubs that are made for raw diets for dogs?

She has not eaten since Monday morning and is not interested in eating anything which I understand is normal in this instance. I know I needed to withhold food for a few days but I read on line that if they do not eat after two days that intestinal cells start to die off or something and that a trip to the vet for a feeding tube is needed. She is drinking water on her own though. I put a small amount of room temperature organic, low salt, low fat, chicken broth out for her but she has not touched it. She had an injection for nausea at the vet yesterday but I stopped by the vet today and picked of some oral nausea meds (Cerenia)

She did play with her ball for two short little fetches inside though and carried the ball in her mouth for a victory lap :) then laid back down on her bed.

P.S. Thank you Herr, Laura and Nienna for the tips!

 

[Z...]

Is this correct, HE? If so, maybe eating the more leaner meats won't hurt April's little companion that much while she is healing.

Possibly, dogs liver can handle large amounts of protein better then human's but this needs more research. Cats surely can. In any case I wouldn't rely on lean meat only in the long run.

I have some lean ground turkey that I bought for now until the pancreas calms down. So just add omega 3 fatty acids and some carrots but not bonemeal and other supplements until later?

sounds good. if you feed sardines or mackerel no need for omega 3 either.

When you say commercial food do you mean the commercially prepared raw meat chubs that are made for raw diets for dogs?

Yes, if I am not mistaken in US you are quite spoiled for choice.

She has not eaten since Monday morning and is not interested in eating anything which I understand is normal in this instance. I know I needed to withhold food for a few days but I read on line that if they do not eat after two days that intestinal cells start to die off or something and that a trip to the vet for a feeding tube is needed.

This doesn't make any sense. Dogs and most carnivores can go without food for days, it is actually good for them. So dont worry about this. When her body is ready for food she will show you.