Surgery for 10 and a Half Year Old Pug
- Thread starter Lirpa
- Start date
Lirpa
Jedi Master
Ruby is still very lethargic and weak. By Thursday she still refused food and her oral water consumption went down. I thought maybe the Cerenia and Tramadol was just making her too sleepy to want to eat so I stopped those on Thursday but still no eating then her pain came back Thursday night. Not as painful as Monday night but pain nonetheless.
I took her into the vet on Friday for a full day of IV fluids to replace electrolytes. The vet is hoping the IV fluids will give her enough oomph to get her over the hump to get better. Even after that she is still limp in my arms when I hold her which is unusual because she is very independent. Her breathing is very heavy...not wheezing, congested or panting but just of forced and strong with a lot of sound coming out of her nostrils (more so than what is the usual Pug snufflyness)
I don't know if she is weak from the pancreatitis or more from the subsequent diabetes (I think the diabetes is transient due to the prednisone and pancreas attack and am hoping that once she heals and is on good food it will go back to normal). I was hoping to get some food in her by now to work on the blood sugar levels and such.
She still does not want any food at all. I understand that wild animals fast in the wild but they are usually healthy. It just concerns me that she is not getting enough nutrition to help her body heal when she is so sick after reading this:
_http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/11_11/features/Canine-Pancreatitis-Symptoms-and-Treatment_16081-1.html
"Today, though, there is growing evidence in both humans and animals that recovery time is reduced and survival rates increased when patients are fed early in the recovery from pancreatitis. It is now accepted that prolonged withholding of oral food and water for more than 48 hours (including the time before the dog was brought in for treatment) can lead to increased intestinal permeability (“leaky gut”), atrophy of the digestive cells in the small intestine, and sepsis (blood poisoning). In turn, sepsis can contribute to multiple organ failure and decreased survival rates.
Without oral nutrition, the intestines starve, even if nutrition is provided to the rest of the body through IVs. This is because the intestines receive their nutrition only from what passes through them. Enteral feeding, in which nutrition is provided through the digestive system, is thought to decrease the potential for bacterial infection caused by intestinal permeation, and may reduce the time the dog needs to be hospitalized.
Because most dogs with pancreatitis are unwilling to eat, a liquid diet may be fed via a tube placed through the nose, esophagus, or stomach. Dogs may tolerate nasoesophageal feeding even when vomiting persists. There is evidence that pancreatic secretions are suppressed during an attack of pancreatitis, so food delivered in this manner stimulates the pancreas less than we used to believe, and helps to maintain the health of the gastrointestinal tract and decrease inflammation and side effects such as those listed above."
She doesn't seem to be snapping back as quickly as she did when she had that attack back in 2009 but then again she is older now.. She is pooping small watery poops (god knows where the poop is coming from since she isn't eating!) and peeing.
We go back in Wednesday to re-check blood work.
I took her into the vet on Friday for a full day of IV fluids to replace electrolytes. The vet is hoping the IV fluids will give her enough oomph to get her over the hump to get better. Even after that she is still limp in my arms when I hold her which is unusual because she is very independent. Her breathing is very heavy...not wheezing, congested or panting but just of forced and strong with a lot of sound coming out of her nostrils (more so than what is the usual Pug snufflyness)
I don't know if she is weak from the pancreatitis or more from the subsequent diabetes (I think the diabetes is transient due to the prednisone and pancreas attack and am hoping that once she heals and is on good food it will go back to normal). I was hoping to get some food in her by now to work on the blood sugar levels and such.
She still does not want any food at all. I understand that wild animals fast in the wild but they are usually healthy. It just concerns me that she is not getting enough nutrition to help her body heal when she is so sick after reading this:
_http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/11_11/features/Canine-Pancreatitis-Symptoms-and-Treatment_16081-1.html
"Today, though, there is growing evidence in both humans and animals that recovery time is reduced and survival rates increased when patients are fed early in the recovery from pancreatitis. It is now accepted that prolonged withholding of oral food and water for more than 48 hours (including the time before the dog was brought in for treatment) can lead to increased intestinal permeability (“leaky gut”), atrophy of the digestive cells in the small intestine, and sepsis (blood poisoning). In turn, sepsis can contribute to multiple organ failure and decreased survival rates.
Without oral nutrition, the intestines starve, even if nutrition is provided to the rest of the body through IVs. This is because the intestines receive their nutrition only from what passes through them. Enteral feeding, in which nutrition is provided through the digestive system, is thought to decrease the potential for bacterial infection caused by intestinal permeation, and may reduce the time the dog needs to be hospitalized.
Because most dogs with pancreatitis are unwilling to eat, a liquid diet may be fed via a tube placed through the nose, esophagus, or stomach. Dogs may tolerate nasoesophageal feeding even when vomiting persists. There is evidence that pancreatic secretions are suppressed during an attack of pancreatitis, so food delivered in this manner stimulates the pancreas less than we used to believe, and helps to maintain the health of the gastrointestinal tract and decrease inflammation and side effects such as those listed above."
She doesn't seem to be snapping back as quickly as she did when she had that attack back in 2009 but then again she is older now.. She is pooping small watery poops (god knows where the poop is coming from since she isn't eating!) and peeing.
We go back in Wednesday to re-check blood work.
Sometimes you have to force to eat your dog, even if he doesn't wanted to eat,putting the food in his mouth. I had a problem with a dog, after an operation. He did not want to eat, for any reason. One day, two days, three days, four days... Finally I decided to put the food in his mouth and forced him to eat. It was difficult, but after a week finally he started to eat. Do not hesitated to force your dog to eat, it is sometimes a question of big urgency. I am sure that my dog would have died without me forcing the food in his mouth, day by day. I hope I am not making noise here.
Hoping Ruby get better soon.
I just wanted to mention that I've read in the past that both in the wild and as pets, when animal get sick they immediately stop eating and lay down and sleep a lot and that this is a good thing. Maybe it's different with pancreatitis (and perhaps others) but just thought I'd mention it. Maybe Herr Eisneheim will give his input on this again.
I just wanted to mention that I've read in the past that both in the wild and as pets, when animal get sick they immediately stop eating and lay down and sleep a lot and that this is a good thing. Maybe it's different with pancreatitis (and perhaps others) but just thought I'd mention it. Maybe Herr Eisneheim will give his input on this again.
Lirpa
Jedi Master
Just got back from the vet.
Ruby spit out the baby food and vomited a watery, clearish and rusty fluid but then she then began to vomit a lot of very dark old brown blood all over her bed and her gums were very pale so my regular vet met me at their office after hours. She vomited the blood twice here and then three more times at the office. Her stomach is full of blood. The vet took xrays and explained them to me. Her stomach and spleen looks fine and no obstructions in the intestines, etc.
Her liver and lymph nodes are huge and everything is pushed back towards the rear. She thinks it may be a tumor because everything is pushed back and there appears to be an area that may be a tumor. Her blood sugar was 500 so she started insulin. It does not look good. She is friends with the retired head radiologist of the state university so she took a photo of the xrays with her cell phone and emailed it to him with Ruby's case history. We are waiting to hear back from him but who knows how long it will take since he is retired and lives in a cabin in Colorado so he may be out and about with his family. She did say that the retired radiologist may look at it and say that nope it looks fine.
It does not look good for Ruby though. The vet also gave her something to coat her stomach and a morphine based pain med injection. We both are on the same page in regards to quality of life verses quantity of life. She said there may be options once we hear back from the radiologist but she cannot guarantee that she will even make it through the night. She took Ruby home with her to treat and monitor. She also took the xray home to have her husband, the other vet there, look at it for his opinion.
Ruby spit out the baby food and vomited a watery, clearish and rusty fluid but then she then began to vomit a lot of very dark old brown blood all over her bed and her gums were very pale so my regular vet met me at their office after hours. She vomited the blood twice here and then three more times at the office. Her stomach is full of blood. The vet took xrays and explained them to me. Her stomach and spleen looks fine and no obstructions in the intestines, etc.
Her liver and lymph nodes are huge and everything is pushed back towards the rear. She thinks it may be a tumor because everything is pushed back and there appears to be an area that may be a tumor. Her blood sugar was 500 so she started insulin. It does not look good. She is friends with the retired head radiologist of the state university so she took a photo of the xrays with her cell phone and emailed it to him with Ruby's case history. We are waiting to hear back from him but who knows how long it will take since he is retired and lives in a cabin in Colorado so he may be out and about with his family. She did say that the retired radiologist may look at it and say that nope it looks fine.
It does not look good for Ruby though. The vet also gave her something to coat her stomach and a morphine based pain med injection. We both are on the same page in regards to quality of life verses quantity of life. She said there may be options once we hear back from the radiologist but she cannot guarantee that she will even make it through the night. She took Ruby home with her to treat and monitor. She also took the xray home to have her husband, the other vet there, look at it for his opinion.
Lirpa
Jedi Master
The vet just called. She said that the radiologist does not think it is a tumor just a really really bad case of pancreatitis. They cannot guarantee that it not a tumor though. The vet said that the pancreas is very large too and since the diabetes is blowing up that the pancreas is just not working. She said that she may rally out of it but may sucumb to it. Since the pancreas is so large and inflammed that opening her up to remove a tumor that they could not fix anyway would send her over the edge so surgery is not an option.
Huh April, I am s sorry to hear all this.
I am afraid I have to agree with your vet - it doesn't look good at all. I suspect she might have gastro-intestinal lymphoma ( high WBC and other symptoms)
I am with you on quality vs. quantity.
Be strong and keep us informed.
I am afraid I have to agree with your vet - it doesn't look good at all. I suspect she might have gastro-intestinal lymphoma ( high WBC and other symptoms)
I am with you on quality vs. quantity.
Be strong and keep us informed.
Sorry to hear about the bad news about Ruby, April. :( Hang in there, hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and take what comes... 
You are a really good mom to Ruby, and I know you will only do what is necessary and right for her.
Lirpa
Jedi Master
Thank you everyone for your support. The vet called this morning to let me know that Ruby did make it through the night. She said she did vomit once but the volume of blood was less than the copious amounts of blood she had vomited here and at the vet's office. I don't think the cause of the stomach bleeding has stopped but it is just the medicine that coats the stomach that is giving the appearance that she does not have as much blood coming up from her stomach or has sealed the source of the blood temporarily.
The vet said that she wasn't as in bad of shape as she was last night but is still very bad and may succumb to it. She did not give any indication that she would be coming home today so I think tomorrow if she is still this bad that euthanasia is what is needed on Monday. I will have the vet bring Ruby here or meet her at the office on Monday. I just don't want her to linger in this manner when it is time for her to go.
Last night, when I was driving Ruby to the vet's office, I did give her the talk that I gave Charlie when he was about to pass. I told her that I loved her more than anything, thanked her for all of her love and choice to spend her life with me and for all of the joy she had given me and that while it would break my heart to see her go, that I would love for her to stay... that I did not want to interfere in her journey if she needed to go. I told her to do what is best for herself not for me.
I told her to give me a sign and that I would have the vet help her spirit out of her body if it wasn't able to work anymore and if she needed to go. I explained the dying process to her and that she would be healed and loved on the other side and could choose to come back again as a dog or if she was really brave she could come back as a human. I told her I would see her again on earth or on the other side when the day came for me to leave too. I tried not to cry too much so as to not vomit all of my emotions over her and stress her out and affect her choices.
I wish I was there with her now but in a way it may be good that she is good with Saint Catherine (that is what we call Dr. Catherine because she is so wonderful) so that she won't feel pressure to stay just for my sake. Give her a more neutral ground to make her decision. I do want to be there when she is euthanised though.
So we shall see. The aparment sure is empty and off without her :(
The vet said that she wasn't as in bad of shape as she was last night but is still very bad and may succumb to it. She did not give any indication that she would be coming home today so I think tomorrow if she is still this bad that euthanasia is what is needed on Monday. I will have the vet bring Ruby here or meet her at the office on Monday. I just don't want her to linger in this manner when it is time for her to go.
Last night, when I was driving Ruby to the vet's office, I did give her the talk that I gave Charlie when he was about to pass. I told her that I loved her more than anything, thanked her for all of her love and choice to spend her life with me and for all of the joy she had given me and that while it would break my heart to see her go, that I would love for her to stay... that I did not want to interfere in her journey if she needed to go. I told her to do what is best for herself not for me.
I told her to give me a sign and that I would have the vet help her spirit out of her body if it wasn't able to work anymore and if she needed to go. I explained the dying process to her and that she would be healed and loved on the other side and could choose to come back again as a dog or if she was really brave she could come back as a human. I told her I would see her again on earth or on the other side when the day came for me to leave too. I tried not to cry too much so as to not vomit all of my emotions over her and stress her out and affect her choices.
I wish I was there with her now but in a way it may be good that she is good with Saint Catherine (that is what we call Dr. Catherine because she is so wonderful) so that she won't feel pressure to stay just for my sake. Give her a more neutral ground to make her decision. I do want to be there when she is euthanised though.
So we shall see. The aparment sure is empty and off without her :(
truth seeker
The Living Force
Wow. That really touched me, April. You and Ruby are in my thoughts. Let us know how it goes and know that as always, we are here for you if you want/need to talk.
edit: clarification
edit: clarification
