Taoist Immortal, Eastern Alchemy, and the Potential of Man.

Phill4

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Hi Thinkingfingers,
I was always fascinated with the ideas of magic and mystical powers, i have seen this video before and was impressive,

In reference to the question you propose, i think there is a looooong way to go,

I don't want to sound like i discredit the practice in itself of which i don't know much about, but remember it is a stablished practice with specific teachings, mostly unavailable to westerners in this particular form, BUT, the principle stays.

As he said "anyone"(in reality not everyone), can do this since we (all in fact) poses both positive and negative energy, but the mastery of the machine comes first, what they warn about is someone "burning out" in the missuse accidental or not, of the chi energy, which is totally true, we do not, very seldom experience emotions in their full expression, let alone tapping into this kind of energy, channeling, centers, connections and so forth.

For the purpose of your question, i think, it is first important to look for great knowledge of the machine and study/understanding of the basic energies positive and negative, in conjunction with the study of polarity (STO), i don't think there is any other way, collectively inclusive, for us to approach the subject at this time, but with this understandings in place. these are prerequisites.

it is a constant line of study of the work. The machine, the balance and the polarity.

We are uninstructed on Mo Pai Nei Kung, and because of the secluded nature of the information, it is difficult to access this particular school of training, that and the distortions from potential corruption, but it is still knowledge which can be useful.
 

Beorn

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Thinkingfingers said:
The next two sections show students performing the same chopstick feat, and then Jim(in the book it's explained when john began to accept foreign students) performing telekinesis which is the test for the level two I believe.
It sounds almost like some kind of psychic martial art. I watched the video a few years ago and found it interesting although they didn't delve into the spiritual aspects of it. It would be interesting to see if the books provide more details on the basic premise and goals of this form.
 

Laura

Administrator
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Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Thinkingfingers said:
I will write summaries and explain the method written by Kosta (one of chang's later students) from his two books as this was just a basic demonstration shown via video, although it's interesting that his master is hanging around and interacting/watching with 3D reality. Another thing that comes to mind is that the focus is only on the lower centers, so what happens to the higher ones/the development of the soul.

Edit: My apologies Laura, you asked for a synopsis and I gave you a full description... I'll try to really summarize the books.
I appreciate it. I have a ton of editing to do today and I was able to get the gist of this in a couple of minutes.

It sounds rather like the usual martial arts claims only with a kick. I think that if you read a lot of cases of psychic phenomena you'll find that such abilities have been claimed by quite a few individuals and even demonstrated by some of them. I'm not terribly impressed by the guy shocking other people because I do that naturally and it is quite annoying. Poor Ark never knows if he is going to get zapped by taking my hand or not. So, I suppose, if I wanted to work on developing and controlling it, I could but I have way too much work to do for others. I haven't ever lit a lightbulb but I've pegged gauss meters during sessions. In short, the abilities don't seem to me to be dramatic enough for all the hoopla.
 

Zar

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Laura said:
Thinkingfingers said:
I will write summaries and explain the method written by Kosta (one of chang's later students) from his two books as this was just a basic demonstration shown via video, although it's interesting that his master is hanging around and interacting/watching with 3D reality. Another thing that comes to mind is that the focus is only on the lower centers, so what happens to the higher ones/the development of the soul.

Edit: My apologies Laura, you asked for a synopsis and I gave you a full description... I'll try to really summarize the books.
I appreciate it. I have a ton of editing to do today and I was able to get the gist of this in a couple of minutes.

It sounds rather like the usual martial arts claims only with a kick. I think that if you read a lot of cases of psychic phenomena you'll find that such abilities have been claimed by quite a few individuals and even demonstrated by some of them. I'm not terribly impressed by the guy shocking other people because I do that naturally and it is quite annoying. Poor Ark never knows if he is going to get zapped by taking my hand or not. So, I suppose, if I wanted to work on developing and controlling it, I could but I have way too much work to do for others. I haven't ever lit a lightbulb but I've pegged gauss meters during sessions. In short, the abilities don't seem to me to be dramatic enough for all the hoopla.
Haha poor ark, he doesn't need a higher voltage either. The previous post is specifically from the video posted and I'm not at all giving the practice it's real credit (again assuming it's legit). I would not make this thread if there didn't seem to be much more to this. Here is an example of the benefits from john change in "the magus of Java"

This is Kosta Danaos(who has two degrees in engineering and was very skeptical when he became john's student) asking John chang about a car accident.
"Have you ever had an accident?"
"Only once. I broadsided a truck doing about a hundred."
"What happened"
"Nothing happened. I used my power to absorb the impact on my body. They had to cut me out with chain saws. The witnesses thought it was a miracle, that God or some saint had protected me."

I was stunned, what he was telling me was that his body, augmented by the powers his neikung training had given him, had withstood a stress greater than the yield strength of steel. I tried to imagine the metal and glass shards flowing around his body, unable to pierce human flesh. Certainly, plastic deformation as planned by the car designers allowed for much, but there was no denying that the momentum he had absorbed had been phenomenal.
According to the books at the higher levels you'd be able to deflect arrows and knife strikes on bare skin, throw explosive chi blasts like grenades, float on a leaf on the water, slow time down, and many other things I can only imagine. Danaos also presents the notion that this ancient knowledge wasn't so secret in ancient times as many people knew about it, he bases this theory from his research into greek tales of gods possessing lightning, and the ancient tales of Taoism/shamanism and such (I have to re-read his books to get a more in depth examples and his research as my memory is not the best). This is what I'm referring to when I mention it's benefits, although it's hard to know of it's drawbacks without fully investigating it and that is a massive time consumer which I'm not sure is worth it in the grand scale of things for FOTCM.

I absolutely agree with Felipe4 that the work is first and foremost and I'm not necessarily that bought into Nei kung. It does seem very interesting but in the end it's Knowledge that protects and the work that helps us become aware. It just seems like this is that 1% of secret ancient practices that actually delivers. There is also the chance that a similar practice could be used to charge the higher center instead of the lower ones to give different benefits.
 

lilies

Jedi Council Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

What surprised me he says on the video he meditates a couple of hours each day. Most impressive of his abilities I think is to ignite crumpled paper lying on the floor with his palm.
At video time 09:52 (min:sec)
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AZU8S9F0yI

It would be nice if these abilities could center mostly on the purified emotional and intellectual centers, the gravity being on the clairvoyance-class sensations and cyclical time perception vs. living by the currently enforced linear-time.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

This may be too ignorant an assessment, not having studied this in depth, but it sounds to me like it's a sort of "way of the fakir". Not to say it's "bad", but I am not seeing much benefit to humanity as a whole in what you described as the principles behind this practice. Several hours of meditation a day... personally, I wouldn't have the time for that, and even if I did, I'd rather do something a bit more "productive". This is judgmental in a way, of course. I guess you'd have to try it for yourself, and see how much it makes you grow as a person. Physical training, exerting will power and working on energetic balance is very good, but if not done in combination with Work on the other centers, I don't think it's too much in line with what our school does. But it would depend on how one utilizes the knowledge gained, same as for any technique one learns. FWIW.
 

Pashalis

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FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Chu said:
This may be too ignorant an assessment, not having studied this in depth, but it sounds to me like it's a sort of "way of the fakir". Not to say it's "bad", but I am not seeing much benefit to humanity as a whole in what you described as the principles behind this practice. Several hours of meditation a day... personally, I wouldn't have the time for that, and even if I did, I'd rather do something a bit more "productive". This is judgmental in a way, of course. I guess you'd have to try it for yourself, and see how much it makes you grow as a person. Physical training, exerting will power and working on energetic balance is very good, but if not done in combination with Work on the other centers, I don't think it's too much in line with what our school does. But it would depend on how one utilizes the knowledge gained, same as for any technique one learns. FWIW.
I agree. It should also be remembered that this John Chang Mo pai nei kung person, apparently died quite awhile ago and now what is taught, or being taught in his name, is probably just a shadow of his original "teachings". As it is the case with almost any original teaching from a "master" in any field, it will get distorted quickly by people and groups who think they know the teachings. Another point to consider I think.
 

fabric

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FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Thinkingfingers said:
[...]

I honestly prefer knowledge as this method could be dangerous in the wrong hands(although 4000 hours of meditation is a pretty good safeguard) or with an undisciplined mind/body/emotions assuming it can be transferred to other members, so maybe using this for the elders could be a good start if it actually helps. If it can't be transferred yet, it may be something I could work on while I train in martial arts so when the time comes I could upload it to the members. I'm asking because I'm interested but I'd rather not chase something that doesn't contribute to the knowledge of the group or is fake, which doesn't seem to be...
I saw the John Chang video awhile back and it did pique my curiosity. I took a look through the forum and it seems like it's a considerable investment in terms of time to even begin training for "level 1".

_http://neigongforum.com/threads/mo-pai-nei-kung-level-one.72/page-5#post-2903

The correct state for level one requires many, many hours to reach. It involves relaxation of the mind and body. For a beginner to reach this state of meditation it would probably take a year of practice and then it will still probably require 8+ hours to reach. Doing an hour or two of meditation here and there won't cut it. To reach deep trance you need to relax your body continuously until your breathing naturally slows down to roughly one breath per minute. That takes a lot of time. Then you also have the issue of falling asleep. You have to become extremely relaxed without ever falling asleep in the process. If you fall asleep, the entire session was a total bust. If you had the time to meditate for 8+ hours a day, every single day then you would have a good chance at completing level one in less than a year. This is assuming that you've already developed the ability to meditate for long periods. Most beginners can't go longer than 10 minutes or so.

_http://neigongforum.com/threads/mo-pai-nei-kung-level-one.72/page-5#post-3299

For an average beginner, an hour a day of training would require about 10 years. I think that is a good estimate. Developing the kind of focus that is required does take time though. If you have decent focus you could probably do it in less than 10 years, and if you were willing to take 10 hours each day for meditation, maybe you could do it in 1-3 years. Not many people can afford or do that though.
As for practicality, I can't see how it is until someone can reach level 4 where yin and yang chi are joined and apparently that process can kill you. Though, I imagine there's much more to do before abilities like pyrokenisis manifest. I do think that meditation in itself is helpful but not sure how acheiving level 1 does much for someone other than store chi. From what I've read, you need to keep going with it since it just leaks out. You'd need to start on level 2 to 'compress' that chi, store more, then control it (level 3). Anyway, while I'm sure setting things on fire with nothing but chi energy would be handy to have during the ice age, I doubt anyone will get there anytime soon! What may be more practical in terms of working with chi would be Reiki, osit.

Chu said:
This may be too ignorant an assessment, not having studied this in depth, but it sounds to me like it's a sort of "way of the fakir". Not to say it's "bad", but I am not seeing much benefit to humanity as a whole in what you described as the principles behind this practice. Several hours of meditation a day... personally, I wouldn't have the time for that, and even if I did, I'd rather do something a bit more "productive". This is judgmental in a way, of course. I guess you'd have to try it for yourself, and see how much it makes you grow as a person. Physical training, exerting will power and working on energetic balance is very good, but if not done in combination with Work on the other centers, I don't think it's too much in line with what our school does. But it would depend on how one utilizes the knowledge gained, same as for any technique one learns. FWIW.
[...]
That was my impression too, although it made me think of way of the "yogi" considering the insane amount of meditation required to get anywhere. It seems like a lot of the practitioners on the nei kung forum also don't have the luxury of spending hours a day meditating to that extent. And as you mentioned, lack of work on other centers. Either way, I wouldn't necessarily say it's judgmental to want to do something more productive. Basically they are saying one can still train but it will take almost your whole life to get anywhere (for example if training for 1 hour a day) - or you can give up your life and train full time and possibly see some results in a couple of years. Neither option seems desirable to me.

Of course I'd love to have super powers, but I think the type of work done here sort of achieves that too. Well, maybe not as fancy, but being able to 'see' the world for what it is, discerning and accurately reading situations for what they are and growing a real "I" are superpowers in their own respect! :D
 

Zar

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

Chu said:
This may be too ignorant an assessment, not having studied this in depth, but it sounds to me like it's a sort of "way of the fakir". Not to say it's "bad", but I am not seeing much benefit to humanity as a whole in what you described as the principles behind this practice. Several hours of meditation a day... personally, I wouldn't have the time for that, and even if I did, I'd rather do something a bit more "productive". This is judgmental in a way, of course. I guess you'd have to try it for yourself, and see how much it makes you grow as a person. Physical training, exerting will power and working on energetic balance is very good, but if not done in combination with Work on the other centers, I don't think it's too much in line with what our school does. But it would depend on how one utilizes the knowledge gained, same as for any technique one learns. FWIW.
I agree with your assessment, the only benefit I was interested in is to strengthen those who are helping humanity so they can have another form of defence against the masters of entropy. I think having these super powers may seem appealing but in the long run you would get used to them and they wouldn't improve your knowledge outside of neikung. If anything you may not have to struggle as much and it may impede your learning OSIT.

This to me also seems like the "way of the faki" and as you've stated it depends on how you use it, but there are massive drawbacks like not having an appropriate teacher and being able to integrate it with The Work(which may cause harm as you're not supposed to mix). On the "training time" the meditation required is 82 hours of deep meditation(as I remember it) while gathering yin energy in the dantien, the problem is getting to a deep meditative state between life and death take a very long time to master. It is said that this state occurs naturally during sleep, and that during normal meditating only about 2% of the time is actually spent contributing to the gathering of yin energy(this is why it takes so long). That being said if one is able to master the appropriate level of meditation it can take a few months to achieve level 1 with an hour a day, and if it's possible to utilize a group to give the group yin energy then who knows. This also has drawbacks as it can take a year for someone to learn to meditate this way, unless maybe they are already decently fluent in meditation. But we don't have enough information and nowhere does it say it can be used in a group setting (living in an STS world).

I'm also of the same mind as Chu that there are more productive things to do to help humanity and align ourselves with STO, but then again I practice martial arts to know how to protect when I need to and being able to protect from psychic STS interference with neikung may be worth it under the right circumstances. There is also be too much missing information that could take a while to gather, and we are in a very busy and bumpy "time" right now.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

[quote author= Thinkingfingers]I agree with your assessment, the only benefit I was interested in is to strengthen those who are helping humanity so they can have another form of defence against the masters of entropy.[/quote]

All those abilities you mentioned are interesting but the only real magic I think is the ability to be able to speak to the hearths of others.

To assist, support and interact with their Higher Selfs.

To find the right words and help them wake up.

I can't say I am a rolemodel in this, but I think that this is the only true magic out there. It is the only way possible and forward to help others and chance humanity in a positive way.

It's not through gaining abilities.


But for those who have real powers or abilities, this is how STO deals with it:

[quote author= June 10, 1995]Q: (L) What's the criteria for being a 4th density STO being? (J) Yeah, what's the profile? You mentioned profile before.
A: It depends on what your definition of profile is.
Q: (J) Profile would be a list of criteria, a checklist, if you will. (L) What do they look like, are they this tall, or ... (T) Do they look like that? (L) Do they have any special abilities in manipulating 3rd density reality...
A: Perhaps so, but there may be restrictions as to use of such.
Q: (L) Why would there be restrictions? (J) 4th and 5th...
A: Service to Others orientation means service to others. Usage of unusual powers or abilities, if you will, can cause disruption to those who do not possess these powers or abilities. Also, remember, a 4th density being inhabiting 3rd density, is not inhabiting their own density level, therefore they are in, if you will, foreign territory, which requires, for many reasons which will not be completely described here, that they do not do anything that brings attention to themselves.
Q: (J) You have also said that about 4th density STOs it is difficult for them to maintain in 3rd density. (T) No, STS. (L) STS. (J) What's the difference?
A: The difference is an STO orientation tends to expand one's state of being, STS tends to contract one's state of being. [/quote]
 

Zar

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

While on my way to my martial arts class I had some thoughts about Nei kung and wish to share. I may be very off base, just some thoughts.

I was thinking about how Neikung could fit into the whole sts/sto reality and these are my thoughts.
We live in a duality; sto/sts, positive/negative, heaven/hell, Ying/Yang, Long wave/short wave.

In Zoroastrianism https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,42506.msg668906.html#msg668906 (and megalithic period as well I think) the C's confirm that the ancient world was well connected that the ancients were well aware of STS/STO and seemed to be aligned with sto. With the megaliths I remember reading that the druids were able to communicate through the stones and live off the land and such (seemingly posses powers).

John chang mentions that he was able to feel the existence of all the other members who practiced Neikung(connectedness), he was able to communicate with elementals(megaliths?), and posses powers (from our perspective) by using yin energy.

Fabric mentioned that neikung needs to be a continuous process or yin energy leaks. John chang says that we all posses ying/yang polarity but are cut off from yin energy. It seems to me that Neikung is an artificial method of collecting Yin energy(imitate STO reality), which would naturally enter the body if we were still connected to it. the C's mentioned that in the fall, man was tricked into joining the STS/short wave/physical reality. If yin energy is sto influence what if by joining sts we cut ourself off from the etheric/sto/longwave reality which is the ying energy.

I'm thinking that Neikung may have been a practice that has survived the ancient world (not as far as the actual fall of man but maybe zoroastrianims ear) but is only an artificial method as we life in an sts reality. There "powers" are an example of what life would have been like back in ancient times.

That being said it would stand to reason that we should not practice neikung, but instead fix our connection to yin energy which is sto. And we heal the connection by the fourth way, through knowledge, and aligning ourselves with sto influences.

Just some thoughts
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

[quote author=Thinkingfingers]
That being said it would stand to reason that we should not practice neikung, but instead fix our connection to yin energy which is sto. And we heal the connection by the fourth way, through knowledge, and aligning ourselves with sto influences.
[/quote]

Why do you think yin energy is STO?
 

fabric

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

obyvatel said:
[quote author=Thinkingfingers]
That being said it would stand to reason that we should not practice neikung, but instead fix our connection to yin energy which is sto. And we heal the connection by the fourth way, through knowledge, and aligning ourselves with sto influences.
Why do you think yin energy is STO?
[/quote]

I was kind of wondering the same thing. From what I've read, it doesn't seem like STO.

_https://www.sacredlotus.com/go/foundations-chinese-medicine/get/yin-yang

Yin
Darkness
Moon
Feminine
Shade
Rest
West (Sunset = Yin)
North
Earth
Right
Flat (like Earth)
Matter
More material/dense
Yang
Light
Sun
Masculine
Brightness
Activity
East (Sunrise = beginning of Yang)
South
Heaven
Left
Round (like Heaven)
Energy
Non-material, rarefied

[...]

Yin
Produces form
Grows
Substantial
Matter
Contraction
Descending
Below
Water
Yang
Produces energy
Generates
Non-substantial
Energy
Expansion
Rising
Above
Fire
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang

Meanings

Yin and yang are semantically complex words.

A reliable Chinese-English dictionary gives the following translation equivalents.[11]

Yin 陰 or 阴 Noun ① [philosophy] negative/passive/female principle in nature ② Surname Bound morpheme ① the moon ② shaded orientation ③ covert; concealed; hidden ④ ⑦ negative ⑧ north side of a hill ⑨ south bank of a river ⑩ reverse side of a stele ⑪in intaglio Stative verb ① overcast ② sinister; treacherous

Yang 陽 or 阳 Bound morpheme ① [Chinese philosophy] positive/active/male principle in nature ②the sun ④ in relief ⑤ open; overt ⑥ belonging to this world ⑦ [linguistics] masculine ⑧ south side of a hill ⑨ north bank of a river
So if one is to use Yin/Yang as an expression of duality, it would seem to me more likely that Yin would be analogous to STS and Yang to STO.

 
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

I am in agreement with alot that has been said here.

This may be too ignorant an assessment, not having studied this in depth, but it sounds to me like it's a sort of "way of the fakir". Not to say it's "bad", but I am not seeing much benefit to humanity as a whole in what you described as the principles behind this practice. Several hours of meditation a day... personally, I wouldn't have the time for that, and even if I did, I'd rather do something a bit more "productive". This is judgmental in a way, of course. I guess you'd have to try it for yourself, and see how much it makes you grow as a person. Physical training, exerting will power and working on energetic balance is very good, but if not done in combination with Work on the other centers, I don't think it's too much in line with what our school does. But it would depend on how one utilizes the knowledge gained, same as for any technique one learns. FWIW.
I think anything you practice you become good at if you work long enough at it with enough clarity and focus. Doesn't mean it's useful though. Something could be an art not a tool. Or something could be a tool and not an art. Maybe when they are both we have balance. keeping in mind that I mean a tool to be something useful in service.

I would like to add that that yes I think any energetic type work can be dangerous. I have found that in my clinic work I have made the mistake of working with people who have not asked me directly for help. I did not explain what may happen (meaning, once you make a choice to shift and truely find some healing or growth things can get pretty challenging). People need to make this choice very well informed. Again knowledge protects, and understanding what is happening means we are not afraid of it but can embrace it. I think pain indicates a shifting from the current state, this can be either postive or negative. If you have the information you can accept the pain and master it or it can destroy you.
The energy (Reiki) work is powerful stuff and on twice the situation has developed the individual slid into a state of pain and this resulted in slow death. This is a very hard lesson to learn. I wrestle with observing what is going on in my work sometimes and being in a state of disbelief that I am initiating these things somehow. I think the tension between what an individual thinks and feels and the forces propelling towards an individual in another direction are what caused the distress. So if we are not aligned with the energy we are working with in some way chaos occurs within us or others.
And knowledge and awareness then is the only thing that can protect us.

What is the purpose or intention of the particular type of work?
Is this aligned with our current purpose and intentions?
Are our current purpose and intentions genuinely to benefit other people, are we in service?
 

whitecoast

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Mo pai nei kung, is it true/useful for FOTCM?

fabric said:
obyvatel said:
[quote author=Thinkingfingers]
That being said it would stand to reason that we should not practice neikung, but instead fix our connection to yin energy which is sto. And we heal the connection by the fourth way, through knowledge, and aligning ourselves with sto influences.
Why do you think yin energy is STO?
I was kind of wondering the same thing. From what I've read, it doesn't seem like STO.
[/quote]


I think contemplating whether yin is STO or STS is kind of missing the forest fire the trees. To me the tai'chi is more simply symbolic of information theory and the law of three. STO in that frame is more akin to the integration of yin and yang, while STS is more akin to the disintegration or disharmony of yin and yang. Calling left yin and right yang, for example, is just arbitrary, and seems to be more of a statement about duality and opposites and distinction, fwiw.
 
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