Taoist Immortal, Eastern Alchemy, and the Potential of Man.

John G

The Living Force
Thinkingfingers said:
Divide By Zero said:
Have you checked out the mystery of coral castle, as Laura wrote about in the Wave series? Leedskalnin was able to move huge coral stones and even perfectly balance them on tiny bearings. Nobody knows how he was able to move the coral, but there were some clues. He was obsessed with electrical and magnetic things, and both of his sites were around high voltage power lines. We only have a theory that links electricity and magnetism... gravity has not been connected to the others yet. But, in physics they are trying to do this (UNIFIED FIELD THEORY), which basically would open up the ability to manipulate gravity- and the potential is endless if gravity is indeed linked to time/space!

Perhaps there were times when the electrical energy of earth was changed and this allowed for these forces, like how possibly Leedskalnin did.

Or perhaps the wave includes a huge shifting of the laws of physics. Rupert Sheldrake explained how scientific constants have been observed to change- despite science thinking they should be static based on the "laws of the universe".

I'm all for finding out how these abilities could develop, but a lot of these claims are not objective and are based on hear say. It reminds me of the free energy devices that are claimed to work, but don't seem to work when tested.
That's an interesting notion, Kosta does redefine what he thinks these forces actually are in his second book. I'll make more posts soon.
And yes I have checked out coral castle, and I was thinking about this too since joining the yin and yang together generates a type of electricity. But more so gravity is said to be part of the yin force, and when you accumulate yang force through this method yin also accumulates to balance it out. We all should by now realize that there is much more to what we can do as humans, this does seem like it could be a link but again it could all be smoke and mirrors.

And I agree that this should be taken with a grain of sand, right now I'm ignoring the allure of "special abilities"(as they can blind us) and focusing on seeing if there is a connection with our history(at least) and if it can be understood.
One can certainly think about theories for gravity and electromagnetism; that's what Ark does. There are time travel/wormhole solutions for general relativity that are in principle basically the same thing as free energy. You could for example go to the past and keep getting the same battery over and over before it got drained though I would guess there's something that prevents this overall. Still, the math is basically energy conservation but over time (aka it is like borrowing energy from different times). Overall this math could derive from an information theory that has all information existing eternally and essentially means there really isn't fundamentally energy conservation. Even with a correct theory though, the engineering could still be quite difficult to do since something like coral castle could involve consciousness in the information theory. For me, thinking about the theory is more interesting than thinking about the engineering.
 

Zar

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Corvinus said:
When I hang out with people, and then think about ideas like super-powers, levitation and laser cutting and such..,

I find myself relieved humans generally don't have access to that stuff, given that there is so much difficulty in just moving through simple conversations and social interactions without being "triggered".

Laura observed through her early work that special abilities and soul evolution don't necessarily have anything to do with one another. Hopeless drunkards with the power to heal, for instance.
It is such a childish thing to aspire, like a 7 year old getting a new toy, like that is ever going to change your being, life and bring inner peace.
You realize reiki can be considered a "special ability" right... So we must all be so childish, playing with toys... Maybe some critical thinking and external consideration here can be applied here.
Mind you I'm not advocating even bothering to gain these abilities(it's not about the abilities) but to understand them if they exist and a connection to our past, just like I have a desire to understand everything else. There is also more to these books that may have to offer in terms of a taoist take on spirits, ether, grounding, and even Gaia theory. I create a separate thread for this very reason, anyone who reads this thread will think in terms of the value of gaining abilities (since that was how it started but is not what is important or how we should proceed learning about this). We don't read Carlos Castanedas' book to become sorcerers but to get a different perspective on our world and ourselves. And again assuming this has some objective truth to it, which I think it does but I could be wrong.

And yes it is already agreed upon that special abilities and soul evolution are not linked, this has already been established. No need to keep beating the dead donkey :deadhorse:
 

Laura

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Thinkingfingers said:
You realize reiki can be considered a "special ability" right... So we must all be so childish, playing with toys... Maybe some critical thinking and external consideration here can be applied here.
Actually, Reiki is not a "special ability", it is simply the removal of obstacles to a normal ability.

Back in the day during a discussion with a couple of my reiki masters, it was mentioned that someone had done some experiments. They had people without attunements doing "reiki treatments" (following the protocols) and those with attunements. The subjects were not told who did or did not have attunements but were asked to get treatments from both groups and assess them. Without exception, those with attunements were assessed as doing better although - and here's the interesting part: those without attunments also produced results.

Obviously, this was not a scientifically measured thing, but it we done often enough that it can be said that the energy that the reiki attunements unblocks and gives a specific routing is simply LIFE energy and everybody has it and can do it.

So, reiki attunements are not a "special ability" at all, just enhanced. You could say that physical strength that is built up via exercise is similar.
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
You realize reiki can be considered a "special ability" right... So we must all be so childish, playing with toys... Maybe some critical thinking and external consideration here can be applied here.
Mind you I'm not advocating even bothering to gain these abilities(it's not about the abilities) but to understand them if they exist and a connection to our past, just like I have a desire to understand everything else.
I do not see possibility of practical application of them in this time so it is just theory, aka there is low possibility of understanding anything, especially our past, but even then the question is if there is any understanding if having those abilities. Maybe first comes deeper understanding then everything else. Reiki is different.

We don't read Carlos Castanedas' book to become sorcerers but to get a different perspective on our world and ourselves.
Some read to become sorcerers.

And yes it is already agreed upon that special abilities and soul evolution are not linked, this has already been established. No need to keep beating the dead donkey :deadhorse:
Sometimes you have to make sure it is dead. :)
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
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I also read about a blind study of Reiki, using a partition to block the person from seeing the other side where their arm/hand/etc was. More than chance they were able to tell when Reiki was being applied vs someone who was just putting their hands nearby doing mimic Reiki.


Sometimes you have to make sure it is dead. :)
Thinkingfingers, the masters you are interested in claim all of these abilities that they show they can do. But if they are shown to be using tricks akin to what a magician uses to mislead people, it pretty much shows how manipulative they are. The chopsticks instance may be trial and error to find a weak point in the wood- we can't tell if it was on purpose. But setting fire to things requires sleight of hand to add a chemical or powder to make the paper flammable.


The key thing is that if they were serious about truth, they would not resort to these tricks in order to impress people. If they aren't using tricks, then they should be open to an open test without camera changes. That's what Uri Geller didn't want to do, as Johnny Carson provided their own spoons- he tried and failed. He complained that he wasn't told that this would happen, and yes that was true, but before then he wasn't willing to use spoons provided by someone else to bend (as the trick of pre bending a spoon to weaken it was suspected as his trick of spoon bending).

So, would you want to listen to a master that is not open to truth when it comes to his abilities? Maybe that negates the teachings, not so much because of not having abilities, but because of the manipulation involved!
 

Hindsight Man

Jedi Master
So I have a question,is it inherently wrong to strive for these abilities?It's something I'm very interested in and in fact without that interest I would not have come across this forum or Gurdjieff etc.I am aware that soul development is not linked to the development of these abilities in the same way lifting weights doesn't make you better at being human (gyms are full of roid monkeys for example),but if it provides me with discipline and helps me get through the day is it still harmful? I've read magus of java a while back and some of it seems like it might be true,but some of it is a little prototypical. The chapter that talks about the soul was interesting as it mentioned that ancient Chinese sages were a kind of scientists and for them there could be nothing unknown in the same way that modern scientists won't admit to anything ''immaterial''.And what happened was that after a while they could no longer see the the souls of the dead,since they couldn't admit that they didn't know,they simply said that souls experience a second death and go somewhere.

The abilities I'm talking about specifically is something like ''empty force''.Where you project your chi at your attacker.But aside from that,I spend quite a bit of time reading about chi and various abilities people have/can develop.I don't mean just chi either,since I've read about incredible things people have achieved through simple exercise or brain training.I guess my primary goal with all of this is to be the most optimal that I can be,and that would include chi development.But considering that it's the primary driver that allows me to work on myself and (more or less) knowing the stance of the forum on this issue,this question has caused a lot of inner friction.
 

Laura

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I don't see anything wrong with working with chi - reiki is just a form of chi development for healing purposes. As I understand it, Usui et all also did other chi practices, did chanting, etc. We've even experimented with chanting while giving reiki, and singing, too.

I guess if you just keep in mind your example of the gym monkeys who work on body building to the exclusion of anything else, and don't fall in that trap, the discipline can be good for you. It is altogether possible that those with a dominant moving center need this sort of activity to "tire out" that center. Don't forget to perhaps use the same time and efforts to also work on intellectual and emotional centers if you can figure a way to do that!
 

Hindsight Man

Jedi Master
Laura said:
I don't see anything wrong with working with chi - reiki is just a form of chi development for healing purposes. As I understand it, Usui et all also did other chi practices, did chanting, etc. We've even experimented with chanting while giving reiki, and singing, too.

I guess if you just keep in mind your example of the gym monkeys who work on body building to the exclusion of anything else, and don't fall in that trap, the discipline can be good for you. It is altogether possible that those with a dominant moving center need this sort of activity to "tire out" that center. Don't forget to perhaps use the same time and efforts to also work on intellectual and emotional centers if you can figure a way to do that!
Thank you for the input,and yes i am looking at ways to work on my intellectual/emotional centers.At present this mostly takes the form of reading and observing my emotions,simple stuff like that.I came across a couple of excellent books on speed reading/observation/memory training.One of them is called ''USM : the ultimate study method'' and it outlines a step by step process to accelerate your learning abilities.It goes over everything from remembering words and numbers to meditation to enhance your focus and speed reading which is self explanatory.The other book is called ''The Monographs'' and it's a complete guide to the Holmsian method of observation.It also goes over how to create the ''mind palace'' and things like that.I highly recommend them both to anybody struggling with remembering things or lacking situational awareness.
 

Zar

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Laura said:
Thinkingfingers said:
You realize reiki can be considered a "special ability" right... So we must all be so childish, playing with toys... Maybe some critical thinking and external consideration here can be applied here.
Actually, Reiki is not a "special ability", it is simply the removal of obstacles to a normal ability.

Back in the day during a discussion with a couple of my reiki masters, it was mentioned that someone had done some experiments. They had people without attunements doing "reiki treatments" (following the protocols) and those with attunements. The subjects were not told who did or did not have attunements but were asked to get treatments from both groups and assess them. Without exception, those with attunements were assessed as doing better although - and here's the interesting part: those without attunments also produced results.

Obviously, this was not a scientifically measured thing, but it we done often enough that it can be said that the energy that the reiki attunements unblocks and gives a specific routing is simply LIFE energy and everybody has it and can do it.

So, reiki attunements are not a "special ability" at all, just enhanced. You could say that physical strength that is built up via exercise is similar.
My point is that what if these other abilities are also a removal of obstacles. There are many cases were people are able to perform many of these abilities just naturally. The C's have said that after the fall we are a shell of what we once were, after the STS burned our DNA with light(and I apologize if I'm misremembering/misunderstanding here, and these two ideas may not be an appropriate comparison for other points). It could be that this method maybe a unnatural way of gaining what we once naturally had, and there may be some tid bits of information that can help us understand another side of our reality. Maybe what we are missing is the connection to the etheric world which may be what the Taoist refer to as yin force. we do live in a duality for instance and we are very physically oriented now. I'm not saying it's the abilities that matter but the theory/knowledge that is presented that might explain these oddities or another connection to ourselves.

There are too many what ifs and maybes though, and I am a stubborn mule when it comes to understanding something. And I'm not at the level to be able to make sense of these proposed ideas yet. Reading those two books though, there does seem to be some or a good amount of truth to it from my perspective.

Divide By Zero said:
I also read about a blind study of Reiki, using a partition to block the person from seeing the other side where their arm/hand/etc was. More than chance they were able to tell when Reiki was being applied vs someone who was just putting their hands nearby doing mimic Reiki.


Sometimes you have to make sure it is dead. :)
Thinkingfingers, the masters you are interested in claim all of these abilities that they show they can do. But if they are shown to be using tricks akin to what a magician uses to mislead people, it pretty much shows how manipulative they are. The chopsticks instance may be trial and error to find a weak point in the wood- we can't tell if it was on purpose. But setting fire to things requires sleight of hand to add a chemical or powder to make the paper flammable.


The key thing is that if they were serious about truth, they would not resort to these tricks in order to impress people. If they aren't using tricks, then they should be open to an open test without camera changes. That's what Uri Geller didn't want to do, as Johnny Carson provided their own spoons- he tried and failed. He complained that he wasn't told that this would happen, and yes that was true, but before then he wasn't willing to use spoons provided by someone else to bend (as the trick of pre bending a spoon to weaken it was suspected as his trick of spoon bending).

So, would you want to listen to a master that is not open to truth when it comes to his abilities? Maybe that negates the teachings, not so much because of not having abilities, but because of the manipulation involved!
Yes I agree, He not showing anything should make anyone skeptical. The thing is I don't think he is serious about truth and from what I know(limited amount) about eastern masters tend to not reveal all their cards to their students, and typically none to outsiders.

In the west we focus on revealing all the truth but it's not the same in the east(at least in the past). Even Usui kept some of his symbols from his student. This lineage of masters also seems to have sworn never to use their powers for any personal gain. But looked at from another angle it can be the perfect cover up to continue their manipulation, although if they are manipulating they are not really getting anything out of it from what I understand. If we consider the motives for manipulate, they don't seem to apply since there has only been one video release from a documentary that randomly bumped into John Chang at his clinic while one of the film crew had an eye infection. No one knows who this guy is and where he lives or how to contact him. The only thing he does is cure people with acupuncture and shock therapy with is chi. Kosta(who is a scientist) is the westerner who found him, trained under him, and later wrote these two books to try to unite the east and west.
Also there is a forum dedicated to this method since Kosta brought it to the west, so it's not necessarily hidden. We even had a guy join this forum when he found this thread on a google search and tried to get in touch, which is odd. I do agree though that we can't rule out manipulation.
 

Laura

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Thinkingfingers said:
My point is that what if these other abilities are also a removal of obstacles. There are many cases were people are able to perform many of these abilities just naturally. The C's have said that after the fall we are a shell of what we once were, after the STS burned our DNA with light(and I apologize if I'm misremembering/misunderstanding here, and these two ideas may not be an appropriate comparison for other points). It could be that this method maybe a unnatural way of gaining what we once naturally had, and there may be some tid bits of information that can help us understand another side of our reality. Maybe what we are missing is the connection to the etheric world which may be what the Taoist refer to as yin force. we do live in a duality for instance and we are very physically oriented now. I'm not saying it's the abilities that matter but the theory/knowledge that is presented that might explain these oddities or another connection to ourselves.

There are too many what ifs and maybes though, and I am a stubborn mule when it comes to understanding something. And I'm not at the level to be able to make sense of these proposed ideas yet. Reading those two books though, there does seem to be some or a good amount of truth to it from my perspective.
I asked the Cs about some of these things and related things on a number of occasions. The thing was, apparently, when humans had such abilities, they were in a semi-4D state of existence and in association with 4D STO. So, the question is how to get back to THERE, from which would follow the re-acquiring of abilities. Obviously, due to genetic recombination, some of these things might be turned on randomly in this or that person, but the whole package seems to be linked with humans being re-associated with 4D STS.

So, the Cs said that the issue was two-fold: 1) being ready to "graduate" and 2) receivership capability at the time of "graduation" or "the change". In respect of the 1st, that is achieved by learning the lessons of 3D thoroughly and increasing one's STO affiliation/potential. In respect of the 2nd, that may be simply what genes a person gets at birth and the potential of those genes.
 

Zar

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Laura said:
I asked the Cs about some of these things and related things on a number of occasions. The thing was, apparently, when humans had such abilities, they were in a semi-4D state of existence and in association with 4D STO. So, the question is how to get back to THERE, from which would follow the re-acquiring of abilities. Obviously, due to genetic recombination, some of these things might be turned on randomly in this or that person, but the whole package seems to be linked with humans being re-associated with 4D STS.

So, the Cs said that the issue was two-fold: 1) being ready to "graduate" and 2) receivership capability at the time of "graduation" or "the change". In respect of the 1st, that is achieved by learning the lessons of 3D thoroughly and increasing one's STO affiliation/potential. In respect of the 2nd, that may be simply what genes a person gets at birth and the potential of those genes.
Yes I remember that passage somewhat and it does make sense. It's interesting if this is a remnant method of STS ascension from our past. It's also stated in the books that this method is made from the use of sexual energy, which may be another reason why we "reached for the gold" in the first place. If we are shown that we can live as gods in physical form, I would imagine a naive soul body would go for that gold.

The whole point of this method is to also allows the practitioner to attain an immortal soul and stick around when the body perishes instead of going to 4D(assuming we go somewhere else). So at it's core it does seem STS oriented.

Just some thoughts.
 

Laura

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I made an error in what I wrote above and I corrected it in my post and your quote of my post. The powers were there in the 4D STO state and were LOST when we "went for the gold" which was sexual pleasure, etc. No one was promised that they could "live as gods in physical form" - they LOST the ability to live as gods because STS was about "possessing another."

Sorry for the confusion. The fingers type faster than I think sometimes.

ADDED: I spent years and years and years chasing down some of these stories and ideas to find out if any of it was true. I think that, yes, there were cases where remarkable abilities were displayed but, as noted, I think that this was a genetic fluke. I was highly disappointed to learn that "Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East" was most probably a fraud. Same with Lobsang Rampa. Sai Baba. And so on. I tried exercises etc, you name it. I don't write about all that stuff from my younger days because it was all a bust and useless. But I sure did experience a lot of high strangeness and manifestation of abilities that I COULD NOT CONTROL and which were clearly related to emotional states. And other things that happened of which I was barely aware and only afterward could see the connections. It seemed to me that some part of me was doing stuff of which my conscious, thinking self was totally unaware. Now I call it "billboards" that fall on a person when they are on the wrong track and the higher self is trying desperately to get their attention. Well, I learned mostly to catch on quick. I slip once in awhile, but I have gotten pretty good at decoding the messages for myself. And that means, of course, that a lot of the weirdness has stopped which is really a relief.
 

Chu

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Thinkingfingers said:
The whole point of this method is to also allows the practitioner to attain an immortal soul and stick around when the body perishes instead of going to 4D(assuming we go somewhere else). So at it's core it does seem STS oriented.
Sorry if I'm being dense here, but are you saying that the whole point of this method you are talking about is to remain stuck in 5D?

When revamping this thread, you wrote:

These two books are written by a westerner(Kosta Danaos) who found a master who practiced the eastern method of alchemy to achieve tremendous power, a Taoist Immortal(although the teacher doesn’t consider himself a taoist, more of a practitioner of neikung). In the western world alchemy was focused on altering the physical body to become immortal, while in the east the method was to alter the soul and live as an immortal soul after death.
So, Western = being stuck in 3D, and Eastern = being stuck in 5D, yes? If that is what their "special powers" accomplish, then maybe it's not such a good idea?
 

Hindsight Man

Jedi Master
Laura said:
I made an error in what I wrote above and I corrected it in my post and your quote of my post. The powers were there in the 4D STO state and were LOST when we "went for the gold" which was sexual pleasure, etc. No one was promised that they could "live as gods in physical form" - they LOST the ability to live as gods because STS was about "possessing another."

Sorry for the confusion. The fingers type faster than I think sometimes.

ADDED: I spent years and years and years chasing down some of these stories and ideas to find out if any of it was true. I think that, yes, there were cases where remarkable abilities were displayed but, as noted, I think that this was a genetic fluke. I was highly disappointed to learn that "Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East" was most probably a fraud. Same with Lobsang Rampa. Sai Baba. And so on. I tried exercises etc, you name it. I don't write about all that stuff from my younger days because it was all a bust and useless. But I sure did experience a lot of high strangeness and manifestation of abilities that I COULD NOT CONTROL and which were clearly related to emotional states. And other things that happened of which I was barely aware and only afterward could see the connections. It seemed to me that some part of me was doing stuff of which my conscious, thinking self was totally unaware. Now I call it "billboards" that fall on a person when they are on the wrong track and the higher self is trying desperately to get their attention. Well, I learned mostly to catch on quick. I slip once in awhile, but I have gotten pretty good at decoding the messages for myself. And that means, of course, that a lot of the weirdness has stopped which is really a relief.
You mentioned that you don't write about all the failed experiments that you did,but if you ever get the chance i think it would benefit people here on the forum.It would be good to know which of the popular/unpopular techniques are a total bust.Seeing as you have a better discernment than most it would be interesting also to know how you identify bogus techniques and teachings.Word salads and obvious hypocrisy are easy to spot,but you're able to identify more subtle perversions of truth and it'd be interesting to know how you went about doing that.
 

Laura

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I pretty much said what was important in Secret History.

Also, take the grand master panjandrum major mojo black magician Vinnie Bridges and his "Fifth Way Mystery School" which he started as a sort of "one upmanship" because we were concerned with Gurdjieff and FOURTH Way stuff... Vinnie's dead now and from what I hear, he may have died in the midst of one of his "workings" to call down the Ophanim or something.

I've studied the lives of the alchemists quite closely and most of them were after gold. I think that SOME of them managed to graduate to 4D which is equivalent to 3D "bodily immortality". I've written about that here and there also. Prolly somewhere on the forum. But MOST of them just died and got buried like everybody else.
 
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