Taoist Immortal, Eastern Alchemy, and the Potential of Man.

[Laura]

Gurdjieff on the topic:

"Fusion, inner unity, is obtained by means of 'friction,' by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' in man. If a man lives without inner struggle, if everything happens in him without opposition, if he goes wherever he is drawn or wherever the wind blows, he will remain such as he is.

"But if a struggle begins in him, and particularly if there is a definite line in this struggle, then, gradually, permanent traits begin to form themselves, he begins to 'crystallize.'

"But crystallization is possible on a right foundation and it is possible on a wrong foundation. 'Friction,' the struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' can easily take place on a wrong foundation. For instance, a fanatical belief in some or other idea, or the 'fear of sin,' can evoke a terribly intense struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' and a man may crystallize on these foundations. But this would be a wrong, incomplete crystallization. Such a man will not possess the possibility of further development. In order to make further development possible he must be melted down again, and this can be accomplished only through terrible suffering.

"Crystallization is possible on any foundation. Take for example a brigand, a really good, genuine brigand. I knew such brigands in the Caucasus. He will stand with a rifle behind a stone by the roadside for eight hours without stirring. Could you do this? All the time, mind you, a struggle is going on in him. He is thirsty and hot, and flies are biting him; but he stands still.

"Another is a monk; he is afraid of the devil; all night long he beats his head on the floor and prays. Thus crystallization is achieved.

"In such ways people can generate in themselves an enormous inner strength; they can endure torture; they can get what they want. This means that there is now in them something solid, something permanent. Such people can become immortal. But what is the good of it? A man of this kind becomes an 'immortal thing,' although a certain amount of consciousness is sometimes preserved in him. But even this, it must be remembered, occurs very rarely."
https://www.sott.net/articles/show/108570-Gurdjieff-on-Reincarnation

ADDED: Gurdjieff himself was on a similar quest - to find out the truth of such matters. And he was well positioned to make the search in the area where he was born and grew up. He did a lot of traveling, talked to a lot of people, read a lot of books, and what he said above, recorded by Ouspensky, was the bottom line, or the end of the line of his protracted, painful, and dangerous search.

 

[Zar]

I made an error in what I wrote above and I corrected it in my post and your quote of my post. The powers were there in the 4D STO state and were LOST when we "went for the gold" which was sexual pleasure, etc. No one was promised that they could "live as gods in physical form" - they LOST the ability to live as gods because STS was about "possessing another."

Sorry for the confusion. The fingers type faster than I think sometimes.

ADDED: I spent years and years and years chasing down some of these stories and ideas to find out if any of it was true. I think that, yes, there were cases where remarkable abilities were displayed but, as noted, I think that this was a genetic fluke. I was highly disappointed to learn that "Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East" was most probably a fraud. Same with Lobsang Rampa. Sai Baba. And so on. I tried exercises etc, you name it. I don't write about all that stuff from my younger days because it was all a bust and useless. But I sure did experience a lot of high strangeness and manifestation of abilities that I COULD NOT CONTROL and which were clearly related to emotional states. And other things that happened of which I was barely aware and only afterward could see the connections. It seemed to me that some part of me was doing stuff of which my conscious, thinking self was totally unaware. Now I call it "billboards" that fall on a person when they are on the wrong track and the higher self is trying desperately to get their attention. Well, I learned mostly to catch on quick. I slip once in awhile, but I have gotten pretty good at decoding the messages for myself. And that means, of course, that a lot of the weirdness has stopped which is really a relief.

Thank you for the correction Laura, that makes a little more sense. I do trust your knowledge base and Know you've done your homework.

The whole point of this method is to also allows the practitioner to attain an immortal soul and stick around when the body perishes instead of going to 4D(assuming we go somewhere else). So at it's core it does seem STS oriented.

Sorry if I'm being dense here, but are you saying that the whole point of this method you are talking about is to remain stuck in 5D?

When revamping this thread, you wrote:

These two books are written by a westerner(Kosta Danaos) who found a master who practiced the eastern method of alchemy to achieve tremendous power, a Taoist Immortal(although the teacher doesn’t consider himself a taoist, more of a practitioner of neikung). In the western world alchemy was focused on altering the physical body to become immortal, while in the east the method was to alter the soul and live as an immortal soul after death.

So, Western = being stuck in 3D, and Eastern = being stuck in 5D, yes? If that is what their "special powers" accomplish, then maybe it's not such a good idea?

Sorry for not being clear. To remain in 3D, as in a soul maintaining all the knowledge/personality/power it had when it possessed a body and floating about as a spirit. I'm not sure if one is stuck in 3D and can't to continue the journey and move to 5D after dying as a Hsien(as these immortals are called). I would think yes they could since John Chang is aware of reincarnation and converses with higher beings so he should understand that passing to the next level is the natural process. I also don't think it's a good idea unless that is your lesson profile, I'm just curious as to wether it's objectively real or not and if this was widespread in our past and what that could means.

Re-reading Laura's post though, it does seem like it's another form of crystallization but not as complete as the fourth way. You basically amass so much Yang force in your sexual chakra, marry it with yin force, and are able to manipulate physical reality. Hence special abilities.(whatever yang and yin forces are though, is unclear to me). But you will keep your subjective perspective, added that you can see a different portion of reality as well.

 

[kenlee]

The abilities one gains when practicing neikung are pyrogenesis, telekinesis, levitation, telepathy, cutting like a laser, astral projection, and more. It also seems like when you reach the higher levels(72 total), you are able to have a global awareness of others who are also of higher level.

I would advise to not concern yourself with anything relating to the above "special abilities" since the Work is not about adding anything to yourself (that is, to your false personality) but it's pretty much about getting rid of all the junk (habitual programs) that keeps us unconscious and automatic. So it's about getting rid of the useless stuff (from the psychological perspective) so we can get more in contact with our essential selves. If anything like the above should manifest as a natural progression of the inner struggle that Gurdjieff and Mouravieff talks about then you can simply note it and put it on the shelf for perhaps future study but trying to attain these things will just add more useless stuff to the false personality and keep you more unconscious then ever before.

 

[Chu]

Re-reading Laura's post though, it does seem like it's another form of crystallization but not as complete as the fourth way. You basically amass so much Yang force in your sexual chakra, marry it with yin force, and are able to manipulate physical reality. Hence special abilities.(whatever yang and yin forces are though, is unclear to me). But you will keep your subjective perspective, added that you can see a different portion of reality as well.

Yeah, and that's assuming that you manage to stay alive while trying to gain those "special abilities". Here is something from The Wave, Vol. III as well (chapter 26):

The alchemists wrote that the study and contemplation of the metaphorical philosopher's stone along with the chemical work was a necessary component to elevate the mind and prepare the soul for transmutation.

By invigorating the Organs the Soul uses for communicating with exterior objects, the Soul must acquire greater powers not only for conception but also for retention, and therefore if we wish to obtain still more knowledge, the organs and secret springs of physical life must be wonderfully strengthened and invigorated. The Soul must acquire new powers for conceiving and retaining. ... That this has not been the case with all possessors was their own fault. ... Those who study only the material elements can at best discover only half the mystery ... alchemy is a mystery in three worlds -- the divine, the human and the elemental ... alchemy in the hands of the profane becomes perverted ...

Man's quest for gold is often his undoing, for he mistakes the alchemical processes, believing them to be purely material. He does not realize that the Philosopher's Gold, the Philosopher's Stone, and the Philosopher's Medicine exist in each of the four worlds and that the consummation of the experiment cannot be realized until it is successfully carried on in four worlds simultaneously according to one formula.

Furthermore, one of the constituents of the alchemical formula exists only within the nature of man himself, without which his chemicals will not combine, and though he spend his life and fortune in chemical experimentation, he will not produce the desired end [which is] the subtle element which comes out of the nature of the illuminated and regenerated alchemist. He must have the magnetic power to attract and coagulate invisible astral elements. (Eugenius Philalethes, quoted in Hall 1988)

The alchemical literature includes stories of alchemists who blew themselves up, who suffered horrible diseases, who came under the power of demonic influences because their technical abilities surpassed their spiritual development, or who shot to stardom like a meteor, and then crashed and burned in ignominy.

But, we are gathering more clues here. We have a remark that "alchemy is a mystery in *three* worlds", and that the work takes place in *four* worlds simultaneously. The three worlds are defined as "divine, human and elemental". The Cassiopaeans have also talked about these three worlds:

October 5, 1996

A: Each soul has its own patterning, which is held in place by the three bodies of existence "thought center, spirit center and physical center". There are specific methodologies for adjusting these, and traveling into or out of other planes of existence. When one does not properly utilize these, one tears the fabric of their trilateral continuum when they seek to travel. This can be very problematic, and may lead to the soul being unable to reconnect with the body, thus causing the physical center to perish!!!

They have also spoken of the "four worlds".

October 10, 1998

A: And remember, your consciousness operates on four levels, not just one! [They are] Physical body, genetic body, spirit-etheric body, and consciousness. [These are] the four composites of the human manifestation in 3rd and 4th densities.

 

[fabric]

While it is interesting to hear about people that have acquired such abilities but as I see it it has no practical application in terms of what we are trying to do here. It's like a combination of way of the yogi/fakir (I think mentioned earlier), while this forum is more aligned with 4th way principles. As you said, you will keep your subjective perspective. As for seeing a different portion of reality, maybe that is possible, with the caveat that the different portion you are seeing could in no way be objective. (Ok, I'll leave the horse alone now.)

Mind you I'm not advocating even bothering to gain these abilities(it's not about the abilities) but to understand them if they exist and a connection to our past, just like I have a desire to understand everything else.

What's to understand? The way I see it, at some point there may have been a connection in the distant past. Some of this knowledge might have been passed on or preserved but in our current state it doesn't really seem to add anything. Ok, let's say you finally understand them and its connection to our past. Then what? How does that fit into everything else that's been researched? Sure it adds a small data point for the case that we had powers and abilities in the past but is there anything truly groundbreaking in it? (Assuming any of it is real). Maybe it's something to just take as a passing interest ("oh, cool, superpowers that's interesting") and leave it at that. I think you are trying to look too deeply into it when there's no need.

There is also more to these books that may have to offer in terms of a taoist take on spirits, ether, grounding, and even Gaia theory. I create a separate thread for this very reason, anyone who reads this thread will think in terms of the value of gaining abilities (since that was how it started but is not what is important or how we should proceed learning about this). We don't read Carlos Castanedas' book to become sorcerers but to get a different perspective on our world and ourselves. And again assuming this has some objective truth to it, which I think it does but I could be wrong.

Ok, so if that's the direction you are aiming for let's leave aside the super powers for now. What in the books is it that provides a different perspective? I'd be interested in hearing what the taoist's take was on things. Maybe you can share some of their insights? Perhaps there are some hidden gems and it would be good to read what you found useful.

Re-reading Laura's post though, it does seem like it's another form of crystallization but not as complete as the fourth way. You basically amass so much Yang force in your sexual chakra, marry it with yin force, and are able to manipulate physical reality. Hence special abilities.(whatever yang and yin forces are though, is unclear to me). But you will keep your subjective perspective, added that you can see a different portion of reality as well.

Yeah, and that's assuming that you manage to stay alive while trying to gain those "special abilities".

I can't remember exactly where I read it (and I can't find after searching around), but the process of 'fusing' yin and yang chi can kill the person if not done right. Definitely risky business!

 

[Neil]

I have some thoughts on this. First of all, what is the aim, why do I want/need this power? I have thought about this a great deal. Without some sort of purpose for it, there is nothing to do but basically flaunt it and use it for self-aggrandizement, and I saw no real point in it. I do believe vanity is considered one of the "deadly sins," and I had a hunch that vanity+ godlike powers basically led to the powers enslaving you to some sort of contractile existence. What most people would say, and I have thought so as well, is that such power is needed to restore some sense of justice and balance to the world. That's what the hero archetype does, it fights evil. I also remember reading some Greek texts as a teenager that the gods once walked among us and that gods were the rulers on Earth, and in some ancient age they were the only ones who could create truly just laws which led to virtuous societies. (Plato comes to mind here, but he wasn't the only one) I was heavily influenced by this, I believed that the gods really existed (perhaps they were 4D) and that the only way to "fix it" was to rule as a god on Earth. This is where divine right came from, which was corrupted by 4D STS after they succeeded in the "Schism" or Aesir-Vanir war, or whatever mythological title you wish to give it. Ultimately, the only useful purpose for such power was essentially to attack 4D STS and restore the planet to its ancient state.

So I chewed on this for a couple of years, and as I got more into the 4th Way stuff, my opinion became more nuanced. I shall attempt to explain. If you were at a meeting with Hillary Clinton, and she started doing her annoying cackling, wouldn't you love to just zap her, just to shut her up? Ok, not the best example. Suppose you live in a SJW area and you have this guy staging rallies, making speeches trying to get you to accept his black is white ideology, and self-deprecate yourself on their altar of white privilege. Now these people are on your way to work everyday, and finally you've had enough, your anger surges, and you pull a baseball bat out of your car and start clubbing him. A few young followers that he has brainwashed come to assist and you club them too. There are far-reaching ripple effects from this event, first, quite possibly you will go to jail. Let's say you were writing a book about this phenomenon which had a lot of rational and cogent analysis in it that helped people resist this programming. It will now never be published, or published far too late to be of any use, because you are now a criminal. One of the helpers that you attacked gets brain damage and becomes a vegetable, he will never be able to change his mind and perhaps learn his lesson, you have taken that from him. Another helper you attacked stumbles backwards and busts his head wide open on a curb, killing him instantly. It turns out he was only participating because his friends were doing it and he wanted to fit in and be cool. So now you have all of this karma on your shoulders.

One can now imagine the same scenario with a 4D consciousness. When the anger finally breaks, a rift in space appears around your body and energy pours into your body as your rage builds. The release of this rage crosses the information-physicality border in the form of some sort of neutron pulse which kills every living thing in the city. In both scenarios, you have an equivalent percentage of your emotional energy invested in the outburst, but the ripple effects from the 4D version are several orders of magnitude greater.

I think what Obyvatel said about the cultivation of such energy being part of a more comprehensive discipline is important. In the case of our example above, you're actually in a worse position spiritually with the powers than without them. I can imagine myself in both situations. I also note what is said about 4D STS dumbing us down; you can't really do it without being able to rewrite your genetics. On the other side of the coin, I think you're kind of deaf, dumb, and blind without SOME powers, particularly of the psychic "connectedness of everything" type. Being able to feel certain emotions on a telepathic bonding level with someone would be pretty cool. I also think it is beneficial to have a toe in "higher realms" so that you aren't a total plaything of the gods and can counter their influence a little. My personal preference is that I would like to have some powers to give me a bit of an edge, like a human V1.5, but not enough to be a god, because I'm afraid I would eventually be backed into a corner and blow somebody up, and possibly blow myself up via the ripple effects. I have not invested a whole lot of time into what you have to do to get such powers, it is not one of my priorities, but have focused more on what the consequences would be of having them. It would seem that the most reliable way of getting the powers and being able to wield them is "graduation to 4D," at which point studying them and mastering them would be very important in leveling the playing field.

More recently, I have revisited the "god on Earth" idea and found myself somewhat haunted by this exchange.

A: I was wrong to think I could change the masses by example. Humans are fickle and self-centered for the most part. Thus, if you wish to really effect changes, it can only be done by early education, and even then it is fragile and will not last. In the end you must be true to your own nature and fear nothing. If you do that you may make a difference after you are gone.
[...]
Q: (L) Love and pity for who?
A: Humanity
Q: (L) Pity, why?
A: They are lost.

If the human race was offered a path to salvation, they wouldn't take it. I have thought about what it would take to restore America and the world to some sort of virtuous foundation, and I've about come to the conclusion that with all of the entropic and brainwashed people the deep state controls, it could only be accomplished long-term by some type of demigod dictator. Ruling through force and a strong hand is already a sign of weakness, and is really determining the needs of another, which the Cassiopaeans have said is STS. It sounds like a good way for the STS collective to stealthfully frequency capture any being, no matter how holy they may be. I have yet to determine how much of this state of affairs is chosen, and how much of it is imposed by 4D STS, but I bet the chosen percentage is higher than most are willing to admit. When the people lament "oh why hath the gods forsaken us," well this is why. If I suddenly found myself a god, I would leave this planet, seek out a school to enlighten me as to what was really going on, and never look back. I have lost the will to "fix" anything.

Now 4D STO may have some kind of deus ex machina planned that will make all of this crystal clear and restore some hope in my mortal little mind, but at this point having the powers is kind of a moot point because it still wouldn't matter in the end. Maybe not having the powers to "escape" into is what catalyzes the lessons in this realm.

 

[Woodsman]

I found the Power Hunt to be useful as a waking up mechanism.

-Waking up to the possibility that things were not as I'd been taught. Growing up through a materialist, science-as-god, Toys Are Fun childhood, we are naturally installed with a fascination over the idea of super powers. They are a delicious and exciting notion; Impress your peers! Stomp evil! Show Everyone (who hurt you)! There's a reason they call superhero comic books "teenage power fantasies".

I think the fascination with Vampire fiction (and similar) feeds an equivalent hunger in a young readership which happens to be tuned to a slightly different frequency. In either case.., there's a world out there full of miracles and wonders, where YOU can be special, where you need not fear the dreary promise of a mundane life as a dead-inside adult.

That's the carrot, I think.

So when one comes across books about how there really ARE miracles and wonders out there to participate in, (Castaneda and others), -or people who can read your palm and make the ceiling lights flicker when they concentrate.., well! Sign me up!

But then, as one accumulates knowledge and begins to really dig into the mechanics of how it all works, the opportunity presents itself for one to realize, "Hey, guess what, kid? The soul is immortal, Karma is a thing, We are all part of God, and Lessons are All There Is."

Some don't hear that; they can't ever un-identify with their childhood traumas. But for those who are ready (and perhaps lucky), once the message sinks in, we begin to realize just how clever the bait & switch was. You lose interest in trying to escape death and in learning how to punch through plate steel with your superior Kung-Fu. -Because you're already immortal and.., when was the last time anybody really needed a hole in plate steel that badly?

I remember the C's commenting once that Astrology served well as a kind of easy on-ramp for people. That stuck with me.

I also recall the Kung-Fu guys I respected most, when I brought up this subject as a question, "Why all the violence? Isn't that totally counter-intuitive considering all these other things we learn about energy and awareness?", -they would explain; it's a method for working with oneself and learning. The masters weren't training so hard in preparation to win some important cinematic war or beat up thugs. -I mean, sure, there will always be thugs and even dramatic wars happen, but the base purpose is all about learning the limits of their own interface with reality. [That's me paraphrasing]. To do this, they would spar in order push each other to the edge, to share discoveries. They were explorers, or perhaps librarian/engineers. Or doctors. We see the energy healer a lot as a parallel channel of the same knowledge structure.

But as for Saving The World, fighting for justice, etc...

One of the conclusions I came to long ago now, as I think many of us have, (and as Neil was just describing above in part, I think), is that many people WANT to learn through direct, hard-bitten experience.

In the couple of times I've managed to drop a concentrated ball of 'sense' into an otherwise blood thirsty SJW conversation among some of my old friend groups, -where I have the effect of changing minds and "making people see", what I get in return is not a thanks or relief, but rather a strong sense of, "UGH! You IDIOT. Thank you SO much. NOW we have to work extra hard to forget what you just said and hopefully still be in time to catch the lesson plan we signed up for."

I've seen a variety of ways in which people will avoid reason and engage in tragic misadventure of all sorts, and at the end of which sometimes they call me up, (months later), and tell me with a sort of abashed pride about the whole horrible experience and the hard-earned lesson. -One which is now embedded in their heart as a valuable trophy or essential soul component they can now build on. That's real, earned knowledge of the Short Wave variety, -versus the book learnin' kind.

I think part of the escape routine and the Work and SOTT is similar to what the Kung Fu masters were about. Keeping the knowledge available and the way open.

Because, sure, my little buzz-kill comments among the inflamed SJWs (who just want to punch Nazis) might not have been appreciated -or even appropriate, but.., they DO provide a structure to hang the lesson on afterwards. (Assuming I've even learned it properly myself!)

We're all in this together, serving our various purposes, learning as we go. Another thing which came up with the C's (or perhaps it was the Pleiadians or Ra or all three) and those old Kung-Fu circles...

This world is jam packed with very young consciousnesses. So, YEAH, it's going to be a bouncy ride!

 

[Ruth]

I have some thoughts on this. First of all, what is the aim, why do I want/need this power? I have thought about this a great deal. Without some sort of purpose for it, there is nothing to do but basically flaunt it and use it for self-aggrandizement, and I saw no real point in it. I do believe vanity is considered one of the "deadly sins," and I had a hunch that vanity+ godlike powers basically led to the powers enslaving you to some sort of contractile existence. What most people would say, and I have thought so as well, is that such power is needed to restore some sense of justice and balance to the world. That's what the hero archetype does, it fights evil. I also remember reading some Greek texts as a teenager that the gods once walked among us and that gods were the rulers on Earth, and in some ancient age they were the only ones who could create truly just laws which led to virtuous societies. (Plato comes to mind here, but he wasn't the only one) I was heavily influenced by this, I believed that the gods really existed (perhaps they were 4D) and that the only way to "fix it" was to rule as a god on Earth. This is where divine right came from, which was corrupted by 4D STS after they succeeded in the "Schism" or Aesir-Vanir war, or whatever mythological title you wish to give it. Ultimately, the only useful purpose for such power was essentially to attack 4D STS and restore the planet to its ancient state.

It is an interesting take, but I would suggest that STO would never 'attack' anyone, as this interferes with free will and STO seeks to balance, rather than respond to STS as in 'like for like' which would be to 'become' them. If STO is all about balance, then you cannot attack if you are to balance. Just a thought. What came to mind to me after I read this part of your post was (believe it or not!) comic book hero Uncle Ben from Spider Man fame: "With great power comes great responsibility".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ben
I think (at the moment) that if a person wants 'great power', then they must also accept great responsibility, otherwise they set themselves up for a life of STS. To have the one without the other would be STS, not STO, which is effectively about balance.

So I chewed on this for a couple of years, and as I got more into the 4th Way stuff, my opinion became more nuanced. I shall attempt to explain. If you were at a meeting with Hillary Clinton, and she started doing her annoying cackling, wouldn't you love to just zap her, just to shut her up? Ok, not the best example. Suppose you live in a SJW area and you have this guy staging rallies, making speeches trying to get you to accept his black is white ideology, and self-deprecate yourself on their altar of white privilege.

Well, when it comes to Hillary Clinton, I'm not very nuanced at all. She is a toxic, horrible, entropic human being. And in my opinion Hitler has nothing on her. To me she represents everything evil and entropic. And, yes I know it doesn't gel with a lot of people 'perceptions' of the various valorous labels associated with her. I don't think labels matter a jot. They are camouflage. It's kind of ironic that in all eventuality she won't receive justice in this world. Thank God she didn't become President. Eew.

As far as SJW are concerned, well there's still the youth, naivety and free will to accept and to consider. What they believe in isn't all totally wrong. Do you ever get the feeling that you are too old beyond your years? I guess there is an irony to SJWs too. Are they not the products of 'white privilege'?

Now these people are on your way to work everyday, and finally you've had enough, your anger surges, and you pull a baseball bat out of your car and start clubbing him. A few young followers that he has brainwashed come to assist and you club them too. There are far-reaching ripple effects from this event, first, quite possibly you will go to jail. Let's say you were writing a book about this phenomenon which had a lot of rational and cogent analysis in it that helped people resist this programming. It will now never be published, or published far too late to be of any use, because you are now a criminal. One of the helpers that you attacked gets brain damage and becomes a vegetable, he will never be able to change his mind and perhaps learn his lesson, you have taken that from him. Another helper you attacked stumbles backwards and busts his head wide open on a curb, killing him instantly. It turns out he was only participating because his friends were doing it and he wanted to fit in and be cool. So now you have all of this karma on your shoulders.

It worries me that you feel too close to these people (as you may very well be, in chronological age) and cannot get any emotional distance from them as a parent might with a 2 year old child throwing a tantrum in a supermarket. It is possible to get caught up in the drama, instead of rolling your eyes (in the direction of other parents) and trying soft words, empathy and reassurance. This seems to work best for people of all ages who are 'in an emotional turmoil'. It is possible to be sympathetic to these people whilst simultaneously ... um... calming "troubled waters". And, it does not disrespect their free will, but sometimes it calm a 'tantrum'.

One can now imagine the same scenario with a 4D consciousness. When the anger finally breaks, a rift in space appears around your body and energy pours into your body as your rage builds. The release of this rage crosses the information-physicality border in the form of some sort of neutron pulse which kills every living thing in the city. In both scenarios, you have an equivalent percentage of your emotional energy invested in the outburst, but the ripple effects from the 4D version are several orders of magnitude greater.

I think what Obyvatel said about the cultivation of such energy being part of a more comprehensive discipline is important. In the case of our example above, you're actually in a worse position spiritually with the powers than without them. I can imagine myself in both situations. I also note what is said about 4D STS dumbing us down; you can't really do it without being able to rewrite your genetics. On the other side of the coin, I think you're kind of deaf, dumb, and blind without SOME powers, particularly of the psychic "connectedness of everything" type. Being able to feel certain emotions on a telepathic bonding level with someone would be pretty cool. I also think it is beneficial to have a toe in "higher realms" so that you aren't a total plaything of the gods and can counter their influence a little. My personal preference is that I would like to have some powers to give me a bit of an edge, like a human V1.5, but not enough to be a god, because I'm afraid I would eventually be backed into a corner and blow somebody up, and possibly blow myself up via the ripple effects. I have not invested a whole lot of time into what you have to do to get such powers, it is not one of my priorities, but have focused more on what the consequences would be of having them. It would seem that the most reliable way of getting the powers and being able to wield them is "graduation to 4D," at which point studying them and mastering them would be very important in leveling the playing field.

Discipline is laudable, but understanding (comprehension) is better. I guess the 64 dollar question would be that if a person comprehends the situation, do they need discipline in order to combat or overcome it? Would they just not accept it? From this stand point, I think they could definitely influence it.

More recently, I have revisited the "god on Earth" idea and found myself somewhat haunted by this exchange.

A: I was wrong to think I could change the masses by example. Humans are fickle and self-centered for the most part. Thus, if you wish to really effect changes, it can only be done by early education, and even then it is fragile and will not last. In the end you must be true to your own nature and fear nothing. If you do that you may make a difference after you are gone.
[...]
Q: (L) Love and pity for who?
A: Humanity
Q: (L) Pity, why?
A: They are lost.

If the human race was offered a path to salvation, they wouldn't take it. I have thought about what it would take to restore America and the world to some sort of virtuous foundation, and I've about come to the conclusion that with all of the entropic and brainwashed people the deep state controls, it could only be accomplished long-term by some type of demigod dictator. Ruling through force and a strong hand is already a sign of weakness, and is really determining the needs of another, which the Cassiopaeans have said is STS. It sounds like a good way for the STS collective to stealthfully frequency capture any being, no matter how holy they may be. I have yet to determine how much of this state of affairs is chosen, and how much of it is imposed by 4D STS, but I bet the chosen percentage is higher than most are willing to admit. When the people lament "oh why hath the gods forsaken us," well this is why. If I suddenly found myself a god, I would leave this planet, seek out a school to enlighten me as to what was really going on, and never look back. I have lost the will to "fix" anything.

They have the right to seek the path to salvation, or not. That's why it's called free will. It's interesting that you quote Caesar from the session above. (Yes, they actually 'got him on the line' so to speak.) "God on Earth", I wonder what he'd think of that? Lol. I suppose in the end all things are relative. Personally, I think 7th Density is more akin to God, but it is all inclusive (it includes all things, i.e. the good, the bad, and the really, really refuse ridden).

Now 4D STO may have some kind of deus ex machina planned that will make all of this crystal clear and restore some hope in my mortal little mind, but at this point having the powers is kind of a moot point because it still wouldn't matter in the end. Maybe not having the powers to "escape" into is what catalyzes the lessons in this realm.

STO in any realm will do what it does and (most likely, give to those who truly ask). However, your 'mortal little mind' is infinite, and (whether you believe it or not), you are 'Captain of your own ship'! It worries me that you feel trapped and want to 'escape'. Remember, "With true power comes great responsibility".

 

[Neil]

It is an interesting take, but I would suggest that STO would never 'attack' anyone, as this interferes with free will and STO seeks to balance, rather than respond to STS as in 'like for like' which would be to 'become' them. If STO is all about balance, then you cannot attack if you are to balance.

I don't think STO would ever start a war, but I don't think they're pacifists either. The Cassiopaeans described it as not "acting against another," but "acting in favor of your own destiny." Ra described how the "Federation Planets" took turns battling the Orion group so as not to become too drained from the loss of polarity, while also not acquiescing to what the Orions are trying to "give," that being enslavement. The Cassiopaeans speak of battles, which bleed into our reality as weather phenomenon. Now it could be purely psychic, where one side is trying to broadcast the strongest memes, which will be received by all of the beings in the lower realities and tend to align them with whatever the dominant principle is, but someone is clearly trying to overpower and conquer someone else up there. Also bear in mind that this first paragraph references a time when I was 15-16 years old and the Transcripts kind of fell into my lap and gave me a different perspective which I was trying to integrate. I was also mildly influenced by what I'll call the "superhero mentality."

In either case.., there's a world out there full of miracles and wonders, where YOU can be special, where you need not fear the dreary promise of a mundane life as a dead-inside adult.

Describes my thought process at the time perfectly. Being a "dead-inside adult" seemed to be all this planet had to offer.

Well, when it comes to Hillary Clinton, I'm not very nuanced at all. She is a toxic, horrible, entropic human being. And in my opinion Hitler has nothing on her. To me she represents everything evil and entropic. And, yes I know it doesn't gel with a lot of people 'perceptions' of the various valorous labels associated with her. I don't think labels matter a jot. They are camouflage. It's kind of ironic that in all eventuality she won't receive justice in this world. Thank God she didn't become President. Eew.

Well, at the time it was George Bush, but Hillary certainly makes a better "villain." I agree with all of that, but my point was, I don't think you can just zap her with the powers because of what you say later about freewill and all of that.

Do you ever get the feeling that you are too old beyond your years?

I feel like an adult who has climbed into a sandbox full of bratty children arguing over who gets to play with which color plastic dinosaur and then they pull knives on each other when they don't agree.

It worries me that you feel too close to these people (as you may very well be, in chronological age) and cannot get any emotional distance from them as a parent might with a 2 year old child throwing a tantrum in a supermarket. It is possible to get caught up in the drama, instead of rolling your eyes (in the direction of other parents) and trying soft words, empathy and reassurance. This seems to work best for people of all ages who are 'in an emotional turmoil'. It is possible to be sympathetic to these people whilst simultaneously ... um... calming "troubled waters". And, it does not disrespect their free will, but sometimes it calm a 'tantrum'.

I wonder if some ideologically zombified group, possessed by emotional fervor, was rampaging through your neighborhood causing a ruckus and threatening to torch your car because it reflects your privilege or support for oppression, and that you must be punished in order to atone for your injustice in the name of equality, whether you would be so calmly detached about it. I think not. I am fortunate that I live far from this sort of activity, and sort of have the luxury of being able to pontificate about it from a philosophical perch, however I've watched some videos and the media published by some of these people and that's what these people do, and that's far from the worst example I can think of. These people are pretty much willing instruments of the thought center of nonbeing and have the potential to destroy everything. All of this talk of civil war has made me slightly apprehensive, because the day may come when the rubber meets the road and the universe is going to test what I'm really made of. Yes, ideally I'd have some well-thought out plan to kind of sidestep the situation and carry on, but being in the thick of things is quite different than sitting here talking about it. My point was that it's very easy to get caught up in it, and throwing superpowers into the mix would make the consequences much more significant.

Furthermore, for 4D STO, one could imagine that the ultimate manifestation of empathy would be that you would feel everything that other living beings feel when they feel it as if you were them. So all of the rape, torture, and horror that goes on, you would feel that, viscerally. It must take an extremely disciplined consciousness not to get caught up in all of this. My hunch is that the elders are primarily the ones who are on the "front line," so to speak, and the experience is distributed across the social memory complex so that everyone can learn and no one has to shoulder all of the burden. If the elders make the wrong decision, the whole social memory complex suffers; indeed the "crush of responsibility" for those beings must be tremendous.

Discipline is laudable, but understanding (comprehension) is better. I guess the 64 dollar question would be that if a person comprehends the situation, do they need discipline in order to combat or overcome it? Would they just not accept it? From this stand point, I think they could definitely influence it.

I think they go together. You may not need flashy "magics," but I think you need a certain degree of personal power to mount an effective resistance. Otherwise, they just overpower your mental sphere and bring you back into line. I believe that more discipline leads to more understanding which can unlock additional abilities, which gives you additional options in how to break free of the matrix.

It's interesting that you quote Caesar from the session above. (Yes, they actually 'got him on the line' so to speak.)

I know, I feel that there is a lot of truth in what he said.

"God on Earth", I wonder what he'd think of that? Lol. I suppose in the end all things are relative. Personally, I think 7th Density is more akin to God, but it is all inclusive (it includes all things, i.e. the good, the bad, and the really, really refuse ridden).

Yes, it depends on your frame of reference. To ancient people, any being with unexplainable powers and advanced knowledge who seemed to be unconstrained by physicality as we know it was considered a god. Today, most of these beings would be considered extraterrestrials, although some may be from a different version of Earth or are alchemists who managed to "ascend" to a higher level of Earth. The term god has a rich mythological history which gives a common descriptiveness as to the capabilities of these beings. There is an important distinction between god with a little g and God with a big G, which is the 7D being you describe. As for Caesar, I believe that most of the plebs at the time considered him a god on earth on account of his wisdom and virtue. Furthermore, Laura's research would suggest that a significant portion of the planet has considered him as the Son of God, in a veiled way, for many centuries. Any higher-level virtuous being would probably consider the title of god a bit pompous, but depending on the audience, the term may be used because of its universal descriptive qualities.

STO in any realm will do what it does and (most likely, give to those who truly ask).

Indeed, and what the planet seems to be asking for is an agonizing death, which is what is being received. I think that in order for STO to appear in any meaningful way, a majority of the population would have to ask for it, and based on what on what I see, the percentage is so small that STO is extremely limited in what it can do to avoid violating free will. I'm reminded of the parable when Lot was tasked to find 50 good men in Sodom and Gomorrah, and eventually comets or something rained down on the entire place and killed everyone because they were too corrupt. There might be a kernel of truth to that story.

However, your 'mortal little mind' is infinite, and (whether you believe it or not), you are 'Captain of your own ship'! It worries me that you feel trapped and want to 'escape'.

Well, maybe at some level, but I don't think I can really get my higher consciousness to manifest in my physical body without causing my nervous system to melt. It seems clear to me that if you incarnate into a monkey body, you essentially become a monkey. Sure there are ways to mitigate it, via the Work and stuff like that, but it wouldn't matter what high-falutin' realm I may or may not have arrived from, here I am essentially a glorified chimpanzee. In this form, the ability to really understand the universe at a deep level is severely curtailed. Gurdjieff is credited as describing this place as the "Siberia of the universe," a bit of hyperbole perhaps, but probably a fairly accurate comparison. Lastly, without the Cassiopaeans, I would see nothing positive in this world at all. The most rational extrapolation of current trends would suggest it has no hope and no future and is decaying into some type of existential ghetto. Who would want to stay in that environment? Now the Cassiopaeans predicted this and a lot of other things, and talked about some really cool stuff that might happen after. If that's what I saw in 5D, then I can understand why I'm here. But in the 3D perspective it just gets worse and worse without any signs of turning around. While the Cassiopaeans are probably right, I do take some of these claims with a dose of skepticism...

Remember, "With true power comes great responsibility".

Yes, getting back to powers, if you read what I wrote carefully, this is more or less what I was saying, kind of using myself as an example. We're on the same page. I think the powers can be useful and beneficial in fairly small doses, the size of which depends on the individual, but past a certain point you become a danger to yourself and others without exceptional discipline.

 

[Eulenspiegel]

I think this topic is difficult to analyse, given that the scriptures of practical Daoism have mostly not even been translated into Western languages.
The Daodejing and Chuangzi have been translated many times, but they simply elucidate philosophical tenets. The practical tradition was passed on orally, and there must have been quite many. When you have a tradition that may be even older than Christianity, it is a given that there must also be many corrupted schools out there that claim authority based on lineages and scriptures. I translate Classical Chinese, and it's difficult to interpret, as there is a "green language", similar to the cryptic language found in European works of alchemy. It requires vast knowledge of Chinese allusions and word plays, similar to what Fulcanelli/Cansiliet pointed out about Latin/Greek language&lore.
Kostas Danaos and John Chang got popular because of the allure of powers, but we can't make any definite statements based on the anecdotes in the books. They're not academic field studies. I don't think they're taken seriously either, and may mostly be fiction. As far as I know, John Chang regretted letting people film him, as it immediately attracted hordes of Westerners wanting to study under him. He accepted some of them, but the result was that he got expelled from his own school, as his teachers/ancestors were opposed to him teaching foreigners. He stopped teaching, and retreated to the jungles of Java. There are rumours that he has already died.

There are some other problems. John Chang considered himself a Christian, and he likely didn't read Classical Chinese. So whatever he did was likely passed onto him orally through sects that must have emigrated from China to the island of Java at some point. So you may already be looking at a mixed tradition.

My research has taught me that Daoism includes a great many practices and wildly different lineages, so that generalizations become nigh impossible to make. Unlike with Christianity, there exists no critical historical research that would lead you to a definite conclusion about what's authentic and what's forged, what corruptions came about and so on. There are some lineages like the Maoshan tradition, whose current day practices have next to nothing to do with what their founders said and did.
Furthermore, historical Daoist practitioners mostly did not view themselves as belonging exclusively to a monotheistic creed like those of the Near East, and would often be raised as a Confucian scholar, then join a Daoist lineage and later in life, study at certain Chan Buddhist temples.
So while Gurdjieff is correct about many things, the classification of "The Way of the Fakir, Monk and Yogi" strikes me as too simplistic. I've met Buddhist monks in Taiwan that would exert their body through Martial Arts in the morning, do practices aimed at developing compassion and conscience at noon and later do Chan meditations. I think in reality, few people really get stuck just developing one of their centres.

Regarding chasing powers: In Pali, Sanskrit and Classical scriptures, you often come across the notion that the practitioner is meant to develop his overall being, and that at some point, powers may arise. Indian Tantric yogis(and Tibetans by extension) would argue that this is due to tapas(work/struggle) that eventually opens the Nadis and chakras, which in turn leads to greater perception. Similarly, Daoists would say that "tilling the field" would eventually develop the three dantians(cinnabar fields) and open up the meridians. However, it almost always is emphasized that one then should investigate these abilities and move on. Plenty of warnings that one should not get distracted by them. Of course, you then find manuals dated a few centuries later, which give instructions to do such and such mantra for x repetitions, until you get mantra siddhi, which then turns out to conform to a common worldly need such as attaining riches. Sign of corruption or simply the fact that most people have very mundane goals in life. I once went to a Confucian temple in Taizhong(Taiwan), and there were nothing but pictures of high school children there, along with prayers that they may do well in school. Of course, hardly anyone actually reads Confucian scriptures or does historical research. Now if I were to write a book about that like Kostas Danaos, would people get a clear picture about what Confucianism was at different points in time?

Regarding immortality in the Daoist traditions: From what I can find, it's definitely not about staying in 3rd density or the 5th. It's more akin to building a 4d vessel during one's time in 3d, so that one may get to 4d before or after death. I've found instances remarkably similar to the last meeting between Fulcanelli and Canseliet. Variable physicality and hermaphrodites basically.

It's a pretty veiled tradition, like European alchemy, so I don't think it's particularly worth researching from the Western point of view. There may be gems there, but the golden age of Chinese internal alchemy was a long time ago, so you would be looking at reconstructing a lot of things.

 

[mikemotorbike]

wow, its so simple to me, dont you get it?

feeling like a kid in class with my hand straining upward
"I know, I know, teacher pick me"

instead I will choose to say nothing.

 

[mikemotorbike]

but really its about being conscious, as you astral travel everynight already- just become aware of youself as you do that. become conscious, whatever floats your boat or bakes your cake. have fun. These guys wear purple pj's to get their freak on. Just really want to do it, and you will....remember doing it. expand your memory, expand your options.