Thank you for that, though I'll admit that I had to look up 'Dioxins':however frying food produces dioxins
There was an article on the sott website a few years ago , as i recall , from a couple of Japanese researchers ( affiliated with some university ) that concluded that frying would produce the dioxins , they tried it with several common fats/oils , reached the conclusion that unless coated with something ( sorry but don't recall what ) the result would always produce dioxins , my other source for this is Edgar Cayce , though not as specific , but anyways recall him advising someone to never eat fried food. ( there's this but not what i read here on sott years ago Link )Thank you for that, though I'll admit that I had to look up 'Dioxins':
"..toxic chemicals that can be found in many foods, but are most concentrated in animal products with high fat content: meat, dairy products, fish, shellfish, and eggs.
Dioxins are persistent environmental pollutants that accumulate in the food chain when animals eat contaminated plants..
Dioxins can cause serious health effects, including: cancer, hormone disruption..."
(Courtesy of AI)
So, a few questions:
When you say that frying food produces dioxins, do you mean that the high temperature of the frying releases the dioxins from the fat of the meat (bacon, in my example) being cooked? Or do you mean that the frying process itself forms the dioxins (chemically)?
I also wonder how these dioxins are to be avoided in the first place..?
If you're able to enlighten me or point me in the direction of some good information on the topic Ricardo, I would be most grateful.
If I must deny myself bacon fried in butter (one of life's great pleasures as far as I'm concerned), then I shall do so with a heavy heart and (likely) the odd mumbling of profanity..![]()
Or… some chlorophyll to the rescue.Thank you for that, though I'll admit that I had to look up 'Dioxins':
"..toxic chemicals that can be found in many foods, but are most concentrated in animal products with high fat content: meat, dairy products, fish, shellfish, and eggs.
Dioxins are persistent environmental pollutants that accumulate in the food chain when animals eat contaminated plants..
Dioxins can cause serious health effects, including: cancer, hormone disruption..."
(Courtesy of AI)
So, a few questions:
When you say that frying food produces dioxins, do you mean that the high temperature of the frying releases the dioxins from the fat of the meat (bacon, in my example) being cooked? Or do you mean that the frying process itself forms the dioxins (chemically)?
I also wonder how these dioxins are to be avoided in the first place..?
If you're able to enlighten me or point me in the direction of some good information on the topic Ricardo, I would be most grateful.
If I must deny myself bacon fried in butter (one of life's great pleasures as far as I'm concerned), then I shall do so with a heavy heart and (likely) the odd mumbling of profanity..![]()
PS : Well, after listening to the entirety of it, I'm really sorry to have posted that !I began listening to this debate, on carnivore (or animal-based) vs. plants-based diet. But it takles many deep & interesting questions, more general, for instance about science and biases, "what is evidence", etc.
There’s a large chunk of people out there, doctors, experienced anectodees, people popping back and fourth with trying all kinds of variations, people making up new exciting words like ketovore.. the only real way to know if it’s a good diet for you is to try it, all kinds of ways with all kinds of meats and see how you feel.PS : Well, after listening to the entirety of it, I'm really sorry to have posted that !
The carnivore diet "champion" here, Dr R. Kiltz, is just a sophist, using word salad (he said he loves a seasoned salad, amusing).
His way to not answer any argument, to "tell stories", to repeat "that's the beauty of it (or of life)" made me have a bad gut feeling.
The (whole-food) plant-based "champion", Simon Hill, is so more rational and scientific in comparison !
Incredible.
My bad !![]()
Thank you, I'll look into it. I still, however, haven't found anything to suggest that I shouldn't cook meat at a high temperature (or fry it), so I'm still none-the-wiser as to why this, specifically, is linked with dioxins..Spirulina and chlorella supplementation might be the ticket!
This is a good point, and something that some enthusiastic evangelists for the carnivore diet sometimes lose sight of, i.e. individual variation! Most folks will have to do some honest experimentation to work out what they do well on, rather than assuming that there is a magical dietary bullet for all people all of the time.the only real way to know if it’s a good diet for you is to try it, all kinds of ways with all kinds of meats and see how you feel.
This gave me pause for thought. I've recently doubled down on my diet (eating what most would consider carnivore diet) to 'reset', and have for the most part felt sooo much better. But, I've picked up a few rhinoviruses recently and have started to wonder if my body is detoxing and releasing some built-up nasty stuff into my system which has had an impact on my immune system (I haven't been brave enough to do an oxalate test!).I watched several videos on the potential causes of diarrhea on the carnivore diet, including this one, and I did the oxalate test to see if my symptoms were due to oxalate dumping. Within hours of eating dark chocolate, my digestion was completely normal. I couldn’t believe it because I thought I had been relatively low-oxalate for a long time. It was probably due to a build-up from my early twenties when I was consuming a lot of oxalates. Anyway, now I’m eating a small amount of oxalate each day to slow the dumping while also taking supportive supplements mentioned here. Oxalate dumping is real!
I've done the keto diet before, back and forth, and like some others made the mistake of adding in unhealthy foods to try to maintain the concept of a balanced diet. Peanut butter, nuts, and leafy or cruciferous greens being the main culprits. I also never got around to eating organ meats other than some liverwurst. I never really adapted my relationship to food and kept wanting to somehow eat "normal" as much as possible while still being in ketosis. So I would try to find the macro room for a gluten free pizza here or there and, having always had a sweet tooth, trying to incorporate keto friendly desserts as much as possible.
A week or so ago I decided to try ketosis again. Switching back was pretty easy, I felt increased energy levels the very same day I cut out carbs and increased fat, and nothing but good experiences since (in a normative context). A positive side effect I suppose from going into and out of ketosis so much.
I haven't made my mind up completely on carny or keto yet but am leaning more carny this time. The more I've reflected on my prior diet cheats the more I realize those cravings were due to dopamine deficiencies, needing a 'feel good hit' here and there. So I'm trying to adjust my mindset to deal with the root issue, and stop using food, even more keto friendly food, as a distraction from boredom or bad-feelings-gap-filler.
Some things have already changed. I've always loved pecans, and usually have a bag in my house for snacking. I ate a handful the other day and was kinda grossed out. The skin on them never really bothered me before but suddenly it was like I was chewing on leaves or something. Another snack I love is pre-shelled pistachios, salt and vinegar. I was eating some the other day and joked to myself it's like the grown up keto friendly version of eating just the marshmallows from Lucky Charms or something. Which reveals how I view them subconsciously, like a dessert / escape. It's making me rethink the place the concept of dessert has in my diet in general, and that it's really hedonism and escapism. Not to shame anyone who still eats dessert items, I'm directing this at myself.
For the past few years I've eaten alot of chicken because it's cheap and easy to cook a bunch of at once in an Instapot. The other night I had a bison sirloin cooked in butter and it was delicious. Better than most beef cuts I've had. It has me craving more bison now, and feeling a bit grossed out at the thought of finishing off the chicken I have in my fridge. I never loved chicken, I always thought it was rather bland, but now with that contrast of bison it sounds so gross to me.
I have a meat order coming in soon, which includes a beef liver and kidney and some beefwurst made with muscle, liver and kidney. So I'm eager to see how that goes. I'm really hoping my body likes the wurst because I would love to have a staple food I can eat most of the time. I get frustrated having to become a hobbyist dietician, living to eat instead of eating to live. I'd really like to just nail down a diet that works for me once and for all, and move on with my life, even if that means only eating 3-5 different things like some tribal populations do and have done.
We'll see!
Edit: pre-shelled pistachios
Thanks for that, I haven't caught up with all of the sessions yet. My body is not too keen on pork generally. Ham I like but sausage or even just ground pork hits me too hard in the gut, it's very heavy.Also Pork.
Session 18 May 2024 :
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