The Carnivore Diet
- Thread starter Gawan
- Start date
Il Matto
Jedi
Thank you for that, though I'll admit that I had to look up 'Dioxins':
"..toxic chemicals that can be found in many foods, but are most concentrated in animal products with high fat content: meat, dairy products, fish, shellfish, and eggs.
Dioxins are persistent environmental pollutants that accumulate in the food chain when animals eat contaminated plants..
Dioxins can cause serious health effects, including: cancer, hormone disruption..."
(Courtesy of AI)
So, a few questions:
When you say that frying food produces dioxins, do you mean that the high temperature of the frying releases the dioxins from the fat of the meat (bacon, in my example) being cooked? Or do you mean that the frying process itself forms the dioxins (chemically)?
I also wonder how these dioxins are to be avoided in the first place..?
If you're able to enlighten me or point me in the direction of some good information on the topic Ricardo, I would be most grateful.
If I must deny myself bacon fried in butter (one of life's great pleasures as far as I'm concerned), then I shall do so with a heavy heart and (likely) the odd mumbling of profanity..
Ricardo
Dagobah Resident
There was an article on the sott website a few years ago , as i recall , from a couple of Japanese researchers ( affiliated with some university ) that concluded that frying would produce the dioxins , they tried it with several common fats/oils , reached the conclusion that unless coated with something ( sorry but don't recall what ) the result would always produce dioxins , my other source for this is Edgar Cayce , though not as specific , but anyways recall him advising someone to never eat fried food. ( there's this but not what i read here on sott years ago Link )Thank you for that, though I'll admit that I had to look up 'Dioxins':
"..toxic chemicals that can be found in many foods, but are most concentrated in animal products with high fat content: meat, dairy products, fish, shellfish, and eggs.
Dioxins are persistent environmental pollutants that accumulate in the food chain when animals eat contaminated plants..
Dioxins can cause serious health effects, including: cancer, hormone disruption..."
(Courtesy of AI)
So, a few questions:
When you say that frying food produces dioxins, do you mean that the high temperature of the frying releases the dioxins from the fat of the meat (bacon, in my example) being cooked? Or do you mean that the frying process itself forms the dioxins (chemically)?
I also wonder how these dioxins are to be avoided in the first place..?
If you're able to enlighten me or point me in the direction of some good information on the topic Ricardo, I would be most grateful.
If I must deny myself bacon fried in butter (one of life's great pleasures as far as I'm concerned), then I shall do so with a heavy heart and (likely) the odd mumbling of profanity..
A condition has been mentioned in France over the Convenor diet.
However, as others have noted, a balance of the proper nutrients and research into one’s genetic family history has been shown to help avoid possible problems like this.
A #homme develops yellowish #nodules on the hands and feet after following a carnivorous diet! @flahvr 
news
It's strange, but it's right -- a man, a resident of the United States, developed yellowish nodules on his hands, feet and elbows after following a mostly carnivorous diet for several months. Check out the details of his case.
Another case of a rare health condition in the world... This time, a man, a resident of the United States, developed yellowish protuberances on his hands, feet and elbows after following a carnivorous diet, rich in protein and fat for a few months.
The case was recently published in an article in the journal JAMA Cardiology. Find out more about the details below.
This rare condition, known as xanthelasma (or xanthome), is not dangerous in itself, but it is a warning signal indicating an increased risk of cardiovascular disease.
The patient maintained these conditions for three weeks and, fortunately, the yellowish nodules were asymptomatic (they did not hurt).
According to the study, humans fed almost exclusively on red or white eggs and meats, and consumed between 3 and 4 kg of cheese, butter and additional fats in his hamburgers on a daily basis.
Medical examinations revealed an extremely high concentration of cholesterol in his blood: more than 1,000 mg/dL. This rate is almost four times higher than levels considered ideal for age, which are between 210 and 300 mg/dL.
Close-up of one of the man's hands, with the palm covered with yellowish protuberances. Credit: JAMA Network/American Medical Association.
Treatment of xanthalasma is to reduce the level of cholesterol in the blood by limiting the consumption of fat and, if necessary, taking medicines to lower cholesterol. In addition, regular physical activity is essential.
But in that case, that was not enough. Doctors recommended surgical excision or liquid nitrogen cryotherapy treatment to remove yellowish nodules.
For example, cardiovascular disease. High blood cholesterol levels can clog the blood vessels that supply the body’s vital organs, increasing the risk of stroke or heart attack.
In addition to a high concentration of cholesterol in the blood, xanthalasma may also develop due to hereditary genetic factors, diabetes or hypothyroidism. In general, the appearance of yellowish nodules is the most typical symptom. Although they are painless, they can cause aesthetic discomfort.
Man on carnivore diets yellowish nodules on his hands, feet and elbows. 27 from Janeiro, 2025. Bob Yirka.
However, as others have noted, a balance of the proper nutrients and research into one’s genetic family history has been shown to help avoid possible problems like this.
A #homme develops yellowish #nodules on the hands and feet after following a carnivorous diet! @flahvr newsIt's strange, but it's right -- a man, a resident of the United States, developed yellowish nodules on his hands, feet and elbows after following a mostly carnivorous diet for several months. Check out the details of his case.
Another case of a rare health condition in the world... This time, a man, a resident of the United States, developed yellowish protuberances on his hands, feet and elbows after following a carnivorous diet, rich in protein and fat for a few months.
The case was recently published in an article in the journal JAMA Cardiology. Find out more about the details below.
Rare case of xanthlasma
This is the case of a man about 40 years old, residing in the United States, who adopted a carnivorous diet for almost eight months before the onset of symptoms. This diet, which is rich in proteins and fats, has led to the development of large yellowish nodules on the palms of the hands, the plants of the feet, the knees and the elbows.This rare condition, known as xanthelasma (or xanthome), is not dangerous in itself, but it is a warning signal indicating an increased risk of cardiovascular disease.
The patient maintained these conditions for three weeks and, fortunately, the yellowish nodules were asymptomatic (they did not hurt).
According to the study, humans fed almost exclusively on red or white eggs and meats, and consumed between 3 and 4 kg of cheese, butter and additional fats in his hamburgers on a daily basis.
Medical examinations revealed an extremely high concentration of cholesterol in his blood: more than 1,000 mg/dL. This rate is almost four times higher than levels considered ideal for age, which are between 210 and 300 mg/dL.
Close-up of one of the man's hands, with the palm covered with yellowish protuberances. Credit: JAMA Network/American Medical Association.
Treatment of xanthalasma is to reduce the level of cholesterol in the blood by limiting the consumption of fat and, if necessary, taking medicines to lower cholesterol. In addition, regular physical activity is essential.
But in that case, that was not enough. Doctors recommended surgical excision or liquid nitrogen cryotherapy treatment to remove yellowish nodules.
The risks of xanthalasma
Xanthalasma affects about 1% of the world’s population, but it is not dangerous in itself. However, it may be an indicator of a high risk of developing more serious diseases in the future, some of which can be fatal.For example, cardiovascular disease. High blood cholesterol levels can clog the blood vessels that supply the body’s vital organs, increasing the risk of stroke or heart attack.
In addition to a high concentration of cholesterol in the blood, xanthalasma may also develop due to hereditary genetic factors, diabetes or hypothyroidism. In general, the appearance of yellowish nodules is the most typical symptom. Although they are painless, they can cause aesthetic discomfort.
References to the article:
Yellowish Nodules on a Man Consuming a Carnivore Diet. 22 from Janeiro, 2025. Marmagkiolis, et al.Man on carnivore diets yellowish nodules on his hands, feet and elbows. 27 from Janeiro, 2025. Bob Yirka.
Well since I am on long term carnivore diet, I appreciate meaningful studies of the subject.
This one above has me head shaking...I mean who can eat 3-4 kilos (7 to 9 pounds) of cheese per day? Whoever put this garbage together should visit cheese aisle in the supermarket to see what they are talking about. No way an average male or female can manage the feat even if they ate nothing else.
This one above has me head shaking...I mean who can eat 3-4 kilos (7 to 9 pounds) of cheese per day? Whoever put this garbage together should visit cheese aisle in the supermarket to see what they are talking about. No way an average male or female can manage the feat even if they ate nothing else.
Or… some chlorophyll to the rescue.Thank you for that, though I'll admit that I had to look up 'Dioxins':
"..toxic chemicals that can be found in many foods, but are most concentrated in animal products with high fat content: meat, dairy products, fish, shellfish, and eggs.
Dioxins are persistent environmental pollutants that accumulate in the food chain when animals eat contaminated plants..
Dioxins can cause serious health effects, including: cancer, hormone disruption..."
(Courtesy of AI)
So, a few questions:
When you say that frying food produces dioxins, do you mean that the high temperature of the frying releases the dioxins from the fat of the meat (bacon, in my example) being cooked? Or do you mean that the frying process itself forms the dioxins (chemically)?
I also wonder how these dioxins are to be avoided in the first place..?
If you're able to enlighten me or point me in the direction of some good information on the topic Ricardo, I would be most grateful.
If I must deny myself bacon fried in butter (one of life's great pleasures as far as I'm concerned), then I shall do so with a heavy heart and (likely) the odd mumbling of profanity..
Spirulina and chlorella supplementation might be the ticket!
Chlorophyll derived from Chlorella inhibits dioxin absorption from the gastrointestinal tract and accelerates dioxin excretion in rats - PMC
We investigated the effects of chlorophyll derived from Chlorella on gastrointestinal absorption of seven types of polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxin (PCDD) and 10 types of polychlorinated dibenzofuran (PCDF) in Wistar rats. Twenty-eight rats were ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
… These findings suggest that chlorophyll is effective for preventing dioxin absorption via foods
Bastian
The Living Force
PS : Well, after listening to the entirety of it, I'm really sorry to have posted that !
The carnivore diet "champion" here, Dr R. Kiltz, is just a sophist, using word salad (he said he loves a seasoned salad, amusing).
His way to not answer any argument, to "tell stories", to repeat "that's the beauty of it (or of life)" made me have a bad gut feeling.
The (whole-food) plant-based "champion", Simon Hill, is so more rational and scientific in comparison !
Incredible.
My bad !
There’s a large chunk of people out there, doctors, experienced anectodees, people popping back and fourth with trying all kinds of variations, people making up new exciting words like ketovore.. the only real way to know if it’s a good diet for you is to try it, all kinds of ways with all kinds of meats and see how you feel.PS : Well, after listening to the entirety of it, I'm really sorry to have posted that !
The carnivore diet "champion" here, Dr R. Kiltz, is just a sophist, using word salad (he said he loves a seasoned salad, amusing).
His way to not answer any argument, to "tell stories", to repeat "that's the beauty of it (or of life)" made me have a bad gut feeling.
The (whole-food) plant-based "champion", Simon Hill, is so more rational and scientific in comparison !
Incredible.
My bad !
The general consensus among many of them is 2 meals a day mostly beef.
I’ve watched hundreds of these videos over the years and I’m decidedly undecided if it’s a good diet for humans or not, seems to work for some and not for others.
When I did it I drank raw milk also and that went well until it didn’t, about 4 months I felt great. Now I just cannot fathom the idea of being restricted to only meat unless it’s 100% necessary. Which for me it’s not. Some plants for the prebiotic fibre is truly essential for me, and I take so many supplements I could hardly call myself carnivore even if it was the coolest word in the world.
Good luck experimenting, let us know how it goes.
I started a beef-only carnivore diet recently to try and address the low mood and hormonal issues I’ve been having. I did the carnivore diet a few years back, but it was predominantly pork-based. It helped, but it didn’t fully resolve the problems I was experiencing.
In the first few days of the beef-only carnivore diet, my digestion was good, but then I started to have an upset stomach. I thought it was because I was eating more fat and that my microbiome was adjusting. However, after a week of poor digestion and trying various remedies like digestive enzymes and bitters- with no effect- I decided to do some research.
I watched several videos on the potential causes of diarrhea on the carnivore diet, including this one, and I did the oxalate test to see if my symptoms were due to oxalate dumping. Within hours of eating dark chocolate, my digestion was completely normal. I couldn’t believe it because I thought I had been relatively low-oxalate for a long time. It was probably due to a build-up from my early twenties when I was consuming a lot of oxalates. Anyway, now I’m eating a small amount of oxalate each day to slow the dumping while also taking supportive supplements mentioned here. Oxalate dumping is real!
Another interesting observation is that I broke the carnivore diet for a day and had some treats, thinking I would be fine. However, the very next day, I noticed an immediate change in my mood and felt like I was back to square one. So, for now, I’m going to stick with the diet for as long as I can and focus on improving my gut health and lowering inflammation. My goal is to eventually tolerate more foods without having negative reactions. I’m also open to the possibility that I might be one of those people who needs to stay on a carnivore diet indefinitely.
In the first few days of the beef-only carnivore diet, my digestion was good, but then I started to have an upset stomach. I thought it was because I was eating more fat and that my microbiome was adjusting. However, after a week of poor digestion and trying various remedies like digestive enzymes and bitters- with no effect- I decided to do some research.
I watched several videos on the potential causes of diarrhea on the carnivore diet, including this one, and I did the oxalate test to see if my symptoms were due to oxalate dumping. Within hours of eating dark chocolate, my digestion was completely normal. I couldn’t believe it because I thought I had been relatively low-oxalate for a long time. It was probably due to a build-up from my early twenties when I was consuming a lot of oxalates. Anyway, now I’m eating a small amount of oxalate each day to slow the dumping while also taking supportive supplements mentioned here. Oxalate dumping is real!
Another interesting observation is that I broke the carnivore diet for a day and had some treats, thinking I would be fine. However, the very next day, I noticed an immediate change in my mood and felt like I was back to square one. So, for now, I’m going to stick with the diet for as long as I can and focus on improving my gut health and lowering inflammation. My goal is to eventually tolerate more foods without having negative reactions. I’m also open to the possibility that I might be one of those people who needs to stay on a carnivore diet indefinitely.
Il Matto
Jedi
Thank you, I'll look into it. I still, however, haven't found anything to suggest that I shouldn't cook meat at a high temperature (or fry it), so I'm still none-the-wiser as to why this, specifically, is linked with dioxins..
This is a good point, and something that some enthusiastic evangelists for the carnivore diet sometimes lose sight of, i.e. individual variation! Most folks will have to do some honest experimentation to work out what they do well on, rather than assuming that there is a magical dietary bullet for all people all of the time.
This gave me pause for thought. I've recently doubled down on my diet (eating what most would consider carnivore diet) to 'reset', and have for the most part felt sooo much better. But, I've picked up a few rhinoviruses recently and have started to wonder if my body is detoxing and releasing some built-up nasty stuff into my system which has had an impact on my immune system (I haven't been brave enough to do an oxalate test!).
Thank you for the video link - great information.
ignis.intimus
Jedi Council Member
I've done the keto diet before, back and forth, and like some others made the mistake of adding in unhealthy foods to try to maintain the concept of a balanced diet. Peanut butter, nuts, and leafy or cruciferous greens being the main culprits. I also never got around to eating organ meats other than some liverwurst. I never really adapted my relationship to food and kept wanting to somehow eat "normal" as much as possible while still being in ketosis. So I would try to find the macro room for a gluten free pizza here or there and, having always had a sweet tooth, trying to incorporate keto friendly desserts as much as possible.
A week or so ago I decided to try ketosis again. Switching back was pretty easy, I felt increased energy levels the very same day I cut out carbs and increased fat, and nothing but good experiences since (in a normative context). A positive side effect I suppose from going into and out of ketosis so much.
I haven't made my mind up completely on carny or keto yet but am leaning more carny this time. The more I've reflected on my prior diet cheats the more I realize those cravings were due to dopamine deficiencies, needing a 'feel good hit' here and there. So I'm trying to adjust my mindset to deal with the root issue, and stop using food, even more keto friendly food, as a distraction from boredom or bad-feelings-gap-filler.
Some things have already changed. I've always loved pecans, and usually have a bag in my house for snacking. I ate a handful the other day and was kinda grossed out. The skin on them never really bothered me before but suddenly it was like I was chewing on leaves or something. Another snack I love is pre-shelled pistachios, salt and vinegar. I was eating some the other day and joked to myself it's like the grown up keto friendly version of eating just the marshmallows from Lucky Charms or something. Which reveals how I view them subconsciously, like a dessert / escape. It's making me rethink the place the concept of dessert has in my diet in general, and that it's really hedonism and escapism. Not to shame anyone who still eats dessert items, I'm directing this at myself.
For the past few years I've eaten alot of chicken because it's cheap and easy to cook a bunch of at once in an Instapot. The other night I had a bison sirloin cooked in butter and it was delicious. Better than most beef cuts I've had. It has me craving more bison now, and feeling a bit grossed out at the thought of finishing off the chicken I have in my fridge. I never loved chicken, I always thought it was rather bland, but now with that contrast of bison it sounds so gross to me.
I have a meat order coming in soon, which includes a beef liver and kidney and some beefwurst made with muscle, liver and kidney. So I'm eager to see how that goes. I'm really hoping my body likes the wurst because I would love to have a staple food I can eat most of the time. I get frustrated having to become a hobbyist dietician, living to eat instead of eating to live. I'd really like to just nail down a diet that works for me once and for all, and move on with my life, even if that means only eating 3-5 different things like some tribal populations do and have done.
We'll see!
Edit: pre-shelled pistachios
A week or so ago I decided to try ketosis again. Switching back was pretty easy, I felt increased energy levels the very same day I cut out carbs and increased fat, and nothing but good experiences since (in a normative context). A positive side effect I suppose from going into and out of ketosis so much.
I haven't made my mind up completely on carny or keto yet but am leaning more carny this time. The more I've reflected on my prior diet cheats the more I realize those cravings were due to dopamine deficiencies, needing a 'feel good hit' here and there. So I'm trying to adjust my mindset to deal with the root issue, and stop using food, even more keto friendly food, as a distraction from boredom or bad-feelings-gap-filler.
Some things have already changed. I've always loved pecans, and usually have a bag in my house for snacking. I ate a handful the other day and was kinda grossed out. The skin on them never really bothered me before but suddenly it was like I was chewing on leaves or something. Another snack I love is pre-shelled pistachios, salt and vinegar. I was eating some the other day and joked to myself it's like the grown up keto friendly version of eating just the marshmallows from Lucky Charms or something. Which reveals how I view them subconsciously, like a dessert / escape. It's making me rethink the place the concept of dessert has in my diet in general, and that it's really hedonism and escapism. Not to shame anyone who still eats dessert items, I'm directing this at myself.
For the past few years I've eaten alot of chicken because it's cheap and easy to cook a bunch of at once in an Instapot. The other night I had a bison sirloin cooked in butter and it was delicious. Better than most beef cuts I've had. It has me craving more bison now, and feeling a bit grossed out at the thought of finishing off the chicken I have in my fridge. I never loved chicken, I always thought it was rather bland, but now with that contrast of bison it sounds so gross to me.
I have a meat order coming in soon, which includes a beef liver and kidney and some beefwurst made with muscle, liver and kidney. So I'm eager to see how that goes. I'm really hoping my body likes the wurst because I would love to have a staple food I can eat most of the time. I get frustrated having to become a hobbyist dietician, living to eat instead of eating to live. I'd really like to just nail down a diet that works for me once and for all, and move on with my life, even if that means only eating 3-5 different things like some tribal populations do and have done.
We'll see!
Edit: pre-shelled pistachios
Ricardo
Dagobah Resident
Also Pork.
Session 18 May 2024 :
(...)
(Niall) Pork is better for us than beef?
(L) Keyhole, do you have any other questions? Did you get all that?
(Keyhole) One quick question about pork. Would you be able to ask about the fatty acid composition of pork fat? Because they just said that pork is in general better than beef, but the composition of pork fat, the ratio of fatty acids has been associated with lots of chronic health issues in the research. So, could you ask them about whether consuming pork that's not been pasture fed - so, for instance, pork from the supermarket - is that still healthy for humans, given the fact that their feed changes the composition of the fatty acid, and that's thought to be a real problem, as per the research anyway?
(L) Can we break this down into simple questions? Is pork from the supermarket okay?
A: No
Q: (L) So, it needs to be pasture fed pork, basically?
A: Yes
Q: (L) So, you're basically talking about things that would be ideal conditions?
A: Yes
Q: (L) And what about the fatty acid composition?
A: If the diet is varied, that issue does not arise.
Q: (Keyhole) Sorry, a quick question. Pasture raised pork is extremely difficult to find, so what's better: beef or supermarket pork?
(L) Grass fed beef or supermarket pork. Well now you're adding another parameter to it.
A: Grass fed is better on both counts. But in absence, pork is better.
ignis.intimus
Jedi Council Member
Thanks for that, I haven't caught up with all of the sessions yet. My body is not too keen on pork generally. Ham I like but sausage or even just ground pork hits me too hard in the gut, it's very heavy.
I keep getting inspiration to go with red meat so I'm gonna roll with that for now and see how things go.
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