The Carnivore Diet

[JGeropoulas]

As someone commented on a video about oxylates:

“Plants are medicine
Animals are food and nutrition.
It’s quite simple really.
You should eat mainly food and
supplement with medicine when required
and you should be fine.”

 

[ELT]

Great conference gathering doctors from both plant-based and meat-based communities, allowing anyone to draw its own conclusion.
Interestingly, I notice there were 3 on plant side against 2 on meat side...

Searching to be as much unbiased as possible, I really found the plant based arguments lacking weight.
Carnivores advocates here are Drs Baker and Chaffee, with a special mention to the latter, whom I found way more precise than the others.
All were serious and respectful, though. I recommend.

 

[ELT]

I'd like to pick a "joke" out from 1:21:45, made by Patrick Holford, from which I pull a more serious theory (as crazy as it may sounds).
It concerned Inuits having very low rates of heart disease and eating seals, being an awesome source of food :

DHA is very rich in the brain. We know that the Omega 3 came from the plankton in the ocean which the little fish would eat, so it starts to concentrate the EPA and DHA. And then the big fish (like mackerel and salmon) would eat them, [making them] really good. Then seals would come along and eat them ! So seals is by far the best source of DHA. [...] So we have at least learned, if you want a healthy brain and a healthy heart, you eat Eskimos.

As I'm pretty convinced by the evidence now, my conclusion to "what's an optimal human diet?" is "something that gets the closest to carnivore possible" (with implementing some 'safe' carbs - or not - according to the very needs of each individual).

Now, this subject of optimal health is a lot tricky as it can easily lean toward a 'I want more' syndrome ; keeping us prisoners of the sick STS mindset. We are STS, we inhabit this reality anyway and we must move according to its rules, yes.
However, everything is on an array and the apex of "I want to be even more healthy" may well lead one to cannibalism, it seems - and even there, context may have a lot to do in telling if "good" or "bad"/appropriate or not.
This may indeed bring "optimal nutrition", who knows (with echoes to the adrenochrome topic), but to what price ? And let's keep in mind that health doesn't come ONLY from nutrition, although the latter is a fair tool for the former - if not necessary.

Anyway... Long story short, as STO candidates I don't think we need to go THAT far in health, but simply find the right balance to be healthy enough to allow us to function optimally, to achieve what we aim at.

Just sharing my thoughts after this semester of research for "optimal health through nutrition".

Aside, I generally wonder if meat sourced from carnivorous animals would be more appropriate to the human physiology.
But it's a detail that may not make much a difference, so let's stay focus on getting meat simply.

 

[nicklebleu]

Now, this subject of optimal health is a lot tricky as it can easily lean toward a 'I want more' syndrome ; keeping us prisoners of the sick STS mindset. We are STS, we inhabit this reality anyway and we must move according to its rules, yes.
However, everything is on an array and the apex of "I want to be even more healthy" may well lead one to cannibalism, it seems - and even there, context may have a lot to do in telling if "good" or "bad"/appropriate or not.
This may indeed bring "optimal nutrition", who knows (with echoes to the adrenochrome topic), but to what price ? And let's keep in mind that health doesn't come ONLY from nutrition, although the latter is a fair tool for the former - if not necessary.

Anyway... Long story short, as STO candidates I don't think we need to go THAT far in health, but simply find the right balance to be healthy enough to allow us to function optimally, to achieve what we aim at.

I’ve thought about this for a while, too, and I tend to agree with you, @ELT.

One aspect is this: A few years ago I was on a hard-core keto diet. For years. And it was kind of an obsession. And it worked beautifully - for a while. Lots of energy, no brain fog, some weight loss etc. Then things started to change and the benefits dissipated. So I doubled down and increased my efforts - and my symptoms got worse. So I changed course and mixed in some carbs, and felt better instantly.

About 12 months ago, the same happened again, this time on a carnivore diet. For a long time, it worked well, then the benefits, again, melted away. And again, I dug my heels in, just for the symptoms to get worse (I felt tired, and most of all I was cold all day). Again, addition of carbs solved that pretty damn quick.

So, what’s the lessons from this?

1. What works at some point in time may not (or will not) work forever. The body changes, the environment changes, and so the needs of our bodies change, too. All we can do is adapt. Part of me doesn’t like the idea at all - I want to fix things, and once and for all! Nature doesn’t seem to work that way. It’s in constant flux, and we need to adapt to those changes. The difficulty is that we often don’t really know in which direction to go - more carbs, less carbs, more of that, less of that etc. So all we can do is to try to make an educated guess, apply that and then see what happens. And adapt.

2. My obsession with food had an unhealthy dimension to it. Sure, I want my body to be as healthy as possible, but - as @ELT wrote above - at what price? What I have been doing is figuratively hacking my way through the jungle with a machete, sweating, cursing, swatting off flies and critter etc. Instead of dancing away through it, winding around the limbs and vines, laughing and feeling the joy of it.

So, what am I doing now. I still live a healthy lifestyle - mostly. Sometimes, when invited, the food is not what I would normally eat. I don’t make a fuss anymore. I just eat what comes on the table. And I enjoy the company.

But overall - to sum up my ramblings - I try to live an “optimal lifestyle” without being too heavily emotionally invested in it. And then, sometimes I fail, for various reasons.

But live goes on, nevertheless.

 

[Ricardo]

my observations/experimentation , regarding, meat "only" diets , they are likely deficient in b type vitamin group and iodine , possibly minerals as well depending on many other factors.

 

[Fluffy]

my observations/experimentation , regarding, meat "only" diets , they are likely deficient in b type vitamin group and iodine , possibly minerals as well depending on many other factors.

Liver is an essential addition to any meat based low carb diet. There’s no going around it, I take b vitamins but there’s no substitute for the real deal and the body knows that, can feel the difference. And for those of us that don’t/can’t eat eggs, liver covers a lot of bases there too.

 

[Ricardo]

liver eh ? , just the smell of ofal makes me gag , maybe i'll give a go , egads... (ty)

 

[Fluffy]

liver eh ? , just the smell of ofal makes me gag , maybe i'll give a go , egads... (ty)

Fry it with bacon, butter, small amount of onions and garlic. It’s delicious. I used yo eat it raw so I could easily swallow without chewing, but now it’s very pleasurable. Took some getting used to.

 

[Ricardo]

"raw " thats the stuff nighmares are made of XD XD , though i do like some carpaccio/tartare steak though

 

[ELT]

I’ve thought about this for a while, too, and I tend to agree with you, @ELT.

One aspect is this: A few years ago I was on a hard-core keto diet. For years. And it was kind of an obsession. And it worked beautifully - for a while. Lots of energy, no brain fog, some weight loss etc. Then things started to change and the benefits dissipated. So I doubled down and increased my efforts - and my symptoms got worse. So I changed course and mixed in some carbs, and felt better instantly.

About 12 months ago, the same happened again, this time on a carnivore diet. For a long time, it worked well, then the benefits, again, melted away. And again, I dug my heels in, just for the symptoms to get worse (I felt tired, and most of all I was cold all day). Again, addition of carbs solved that pretty damn quick.

So, what’s the lessons from this?

1. What works at some point in time may not (or will not) work forever. The body changes, the environment changes, and so the needs of our bodies change, too. All we can do is adapt. Part of me doesn’t like the idea at all - I want to fix things, and once and for all! Nature doesn’t seem to work that way. It’s in constant flux, and we need to adapt to those changes. The difficulty is that we often don’t really know in which direction to go - more carbs, less carbs, more of that, less of that etc. So all we can do is to try to make an educated guess, apply that and then see what happens. And adapt.

2. My obsession with food had an unhealthy dimension to it. Sure, I want my body to be as healthy as possible, but - as @ELT wrote above - at what price? What I have been doing is figuratively hacking my way through the jungle with a machete, sweating, cursing, swatting off flies and critter etc. Instead of dancing away through it, winding around the limbs and vines, laughing and feeling the joy of it.

So, what am I doing now. I still live a healthy lifestyle - mostly. Sometimes, when invited, the food is not what I would normally eat. I don’t make a fuss anymore. I just eat what comes on the table. And I enjoy the company.

But overall - to sum up my ramblings - I try to live an “optimal lifestyle” without being too heavily emotionally invested in it. And then, sometimes I fail, for various reasons.

But live goes on, nevertheless.

Another essential aspect in choosing is to listen to our intuition. By doing so, we can develop our inner-conexion and then learn the perfect lessons we each need to, at any point.

To conclude, I found these comments from Laura and Keyhole enlightening, again:

I tend to agree based on observations and recent discussions. Each person needs to experiment with what combination makes them feel and function best. For some, it is keto, others modified keto, others paleo, others more carbs. And there are many other factors in play including season and genetics and environment.

I think the most important thing to remember here is context. Different diets suit different people, and this is probably based on one's environment, genetics etc. I personally know of a couple of vegans who appear to be doing quite well with their health, but at the same time I know others who's health is falling apart.

The problem here for me is that a diet like fruitarianism is so restrictive, and since I have some training in nutrition, this sticks out like a big red flag for me. Generally, if a diet is restrictive, it needs to be very well formulated to be achieving good micro nutrient levels. Honestly, this is hard to do. This is why there is such a thing as the "well-formulated ketogenic diet" instead of the standard "ketogenic diet", because typically a ketogenic/paleo diet is massively lacking in calcium and magnesium and a bunch of other things which need to be carefully calculated and tailored in individually. Likewise, vegan/fruitarianism is shocking for certain nutrients.

And

[A] therapeutic diet (such as fruitarian, vegan, raw, etc etc) undoubtedly achieve therapeutic results in the context of healing a specific disease, in some instances. It is difficult, however, to extrapolate the results of a therapeutic intervention and attempt to apply them as a long-term solution.

 

[Deliverance]

"I want to be even more healthy" may well lead one to cannibalism ...

Waouou ... Where did you see this? Please give your sources, thank you.

 

[ELT]

Waouou ... Where did you see this? Please give your sources, thank you.

This was just a working hypothesis based on different hints from nutritional principles, of the kind of Patrick Holford's above excerpts.

Also by adding the implications of the adrenochrome topic, said to have properties on health. 'What about the long term effects ?' is also to be taken into account, so it may not fit at all.
I was also intrigued by accounts of ancient tribes, where the practice is supposed to have also existed.
From a video shared on the forum called "adrenochrome: canada's shocking connection to the world's most controversial chemical", that no longer seems to exist but which I have a copy, indigenous Canadian were said to eat and drink the blood of their war opponents, to gain their strength.
The ancient Maori's also ate their war opponents.

+ The C's recent statement about pork went in a similar direction:

This is why pork is better for advanced humans than beef or many other meats. The information of the pig is more in line with the direction of the human. The meat of the pig is composed of proteins with similar receivership capacity.

"So wouldn't the meat of human grant the exact receivership capacity ?" is a question that naturally arose in me.

Don't get me wrong, even IF cannibalism was the STS way to get optimal health, to what price would it be ? 'Karmicly' speaking for instance.
Now it's far from being the case too.

@Ben had a similar questioning, if not the same. Then he brought some more information to the discussion with which I agree, concluding :

Thinking more about what the C's actually said (should have done this before my previous post):

A: In some instances, nothing. But in general one does not eat one's own kind for energetic reasons. Carnivores do not eat other carnivores because it is not optimal energy source.
Q: (L) In other words, we get optimal energy from eating creatures that eat vegetables. That way, we get our vegetables. But another carnivore processes all of that so that what we would get from eating another carnivore would not be optimal nutrition?
A: Yes.

So the information is 'assimilated' by carnivores beforehand, reducing that available to humans afterwards. So actually the whole concept is something more in line with the order of nature, or ecosystem food chains, even though it is a concept we are less familiar with.

Omnivores might require the proteins and their informational component in addition to some other elements in plants. There is a difference though - humans are not 'obligate' omnivores in the way that cats, for example, are 'obligate carnivores'. It just doesn't seem to be optimal for them to only eat meat, though that seems to be preferable to them only eating plants.

Again it must be more complex that we can understand, it seems like there are different levels to nutrition on an energetic level. Some molecules and components are essential due to their chemistry, ie. their shape and charge interactions, and some are operating on the level of pure information for overall optimum functioning.

Thanks for allowing to post a follow-up.

 

[PopHistorian]

I thought this was interesting.

Harvard medical student ate over 700 eggs in a month — and his cholesterol levels actually dropped

This eggs-pert wasn’t yolk-ing around.

nypost.com

Dietary cholesterol attaches to gut receptors, stimulating the release of the hormone Choleson, which combines to a receptor on the liver that inhibits “endogenous cholesterol synthesis” maintaining homeostasis or equilibrium.

I read in a book published in the 1970s that egg contains a dose of lecithin, which acts as a cholesterol emulsifier.

 

[Ricardo]

I thought this was interesting.

Harvard medical student ate over 700 eggs in a month — and his cholesterol levels actually dropped

This eggs-pert wasn’t yolk-ing around.

nypost.com

View attachment 101900

I read in a book published in the 1970s that egg contains a dose of lecithin, which acts as a cholesterol emulsifier.

Mrs. Laura has written that eggs have a cholesterol fighting effect and its effects thereof in fighting , "bad health" , as well as warning "us " as to how avoiding it , can be very hazardous , but it's not a simple equation , as in example , eating pork is beneficial with regards to FRV ( as well as eggs being FRV bad for being "reptile" related ) , a few months ago i got a high "bad cholesterol " blood analysis test , immediately decided to to cut on eating eggs , which was followed by upon reading her comments in resuming eating them , slowly removed them from diet , and am now closer to a so called " healthy " cholesterol " ( blood type B )