The Carnivore Diet

[jhonny]

Same with meat: It somewhat reduces content in vitamins and minerals, but does partially break down fibrous tissue that otherwise would not be able to be absorbed.

What are some of the benefits of cooking food? More energy available, being able to develop larger brains, killing of parasites/pathogens.

I just wanted to add that the processes bolded above are dependent on our stomach acid or HCL (hydrochloric acid) production, and this decreases due to aging, gut/stomach illnesses, medicines like proton pump inhibitors, and probably other causes. So, I think we need to be very cautious with consuming raw meat since we don't certainly know how is our HCL production doing.

I remember a lecture by Dr. Nader Ali where he was asked if eating rare meat was beneficial, and his answer was "If you want to eat rare meat, you would be better very young, you'd be better making a lot of stomach acid, and you'd be eaten very little".

My 2 cents.

 

[Amor]

I just wanted to add that the processes bolded above are dependent on our stomach acid or HCL (hydrochloric acid) production, and this decreases due to aging, gut/stomach illnesses, medicines like proton pump inhibitors, and probably other causes. So, I think we need to be very cautious with consuming raw meat since we don't certainly know how is our HCL production doing.

I remember a lecture by Dr. Nader Ali where he was asked if eating rare meat was beneficial, and his answer was "If you want to eat rare meat, you would be better very young, you'd be better making a lot of stomach acid, and you'd be eaten very little".

My 2 cents.

In the video you can see gastric acid simulation where minced meat have been used. Its gets broken down not cooked. Maybe unrelated to your post, but it inspired me to look for an experiment

 

[Il Matto]

Paul Saladino, one of the main prominents of the carnivore diet "officialy" became an omnivore, but an animal based omnivore.

I have been following Paul Saladino for a while now and found his 'Carnivore Code' book very useful. More recently, as you pointed out, TheTodd, he has been promoting the benefits of eating (ripe) fruit, raw honey and raw dairy and has had some interesting discussions on his podcast re. long-term ketosis and fasting (which he doesn't seem to advocate, at least personally). Interestingly, if memory serves, he reports that even when he eats fruit and raw honey, his blood sugar changes very little - probably enough to bring him briefly out of ketosis, but the effect is minimal, apparently.

So, I think we need to be very cautious with consuming raw meat since we don't certainly know how is our HCL production doing.

I seem to remember as well that - at least in the past - Paul Saladino has said that he likes to sometimes eat raw organs (he advocates eating 'nose to tail', very much favouring organs for their nutrient content). I have to say jhonny, without knowing all the details, I am inclined to agree with you that caution is advisable - perhaps Paul Saladino has been eating that way for long enough that his stomach HCL content has adjusted accordingly?
Unscientifically, there is a lot to be said for the appetising smell of a rib eye lightly seared in butter! I can't help but think that that same rib eye wouldn't be nearly so appetising if I were to try and eat it raw..

 

[Goemon_]

I have been following Paul Saladino for a while now and found his 'Carnivore Code' book very useful. More recently, as you pointed out, TheTodd, he has been promoting the benefits of eating (ripe) fruit, raw honey and raw dairy and has had some interesting discussions on his podcast re. long-term ketosis and fasting (which he doesn't seem to advocate, at least personally). Interestingly, if memory serves, he reports that even when he eats fruit and raw honey, his blood sugar changes very little - probably enough to bring him briefly out of ketosis, but the effect is minimal, apparently.


I seem to remember as well that - at least in the past - Paul Saladino has said that he likes to sometimes eat raw organs (he advocates eating 'nose to tail', very much favouring organs for their nutrient content). I have to say jhonny, without knowing all the details, I am inclined to agree with you that caution is advisable - perhaps Paul Saladino has been eating that way for long enough that his stomach HCL content has adjusted accordingly?
Unscientifically, there is a lot to be said for the appetising smell of a rib eye lightly seared in butter! I can't help but think that that same rib eye wouldn't be nearly so appetising if I were to try and eat it raw..

I am more inclined to trust Prof Bart Kay. He did several videos on Paul Saladino.

From memory, he says:
°Paul can handle is recent high sugar "carnivor" diet because of his high level of phisical activity. Still, it is not good for his health;
°Nose to tail approch is scientificaly wrong. Organs are not necessary but can be consume in small amount. Paul's approche permit him to make money selling supplement.

 

[Il Matto]

Thank you Goemon, I will certainly check out Prof Bart Kay's videos (having never heard of him).

Nose to tail approch is scientificaly wrong. Organs are not necessary but can be consume in small amount

That is an interesting point, and one that I think Dr Shaun Baker has talked about at some point - I will definitely look into this.

Paul's approche permit him to make money selling supplement.

You know, I haven't watched many Paul Saladino videos of late - he seems to have taken on a slightly more 'evangelical' fanaticism lately, namely posting 'shorts' of himself (inevitably shirtless), walking into food stores and loudly announcing that what they're selling is "bullshit". My initial reaction to this was that he is veering dangerously towards arrogant self-promotion, which actually fits with the idea that he also has a product to sell.. I would like to think that I could have arrived at this thought myself sometime in the near future, but you've helped me get there a lot quicker, so thank you! Large fist-full of salt needed in the future methinks..

 

[Expedition26]

I hate all the “debunking” diet myths out there. It’s like if someone has a differing belief they just have to explain why someone else’s method is wrong. I also follow Paul Saladino’s work (and I have his cookbook). Everyone with a brand is going to do some narcissistic things to get attention.

I think Paul does well on the diet he’s on because he lives near the equator and gets loads of sun everyday, so it would make sense for him to do well with a meat and fruit diet. Someone in a colder area isn’t going to fair well on that type of diet. Diet is so highly subjective from one person to another that anyone saying “this is the diet for all people” has missed the mark.

 

[Il Matto]

if someone has a differing belief they just have to explain why someone else’s method is wrong

That does seem to be a recurring theme. I tried to watch the Prof Bart Kay video linked above. I say tried, because whilst he (probably) had some important things to say, the whole video seemed to quite angry and full of ad hominem attacks on Paul Saladino.

 

[Goemon_]

That does seem to be a recurring theme. I tried to watch the Prof Bart Kay video linked above. I say tried, because whilst he (probably) had some important things to say, the whole video seemed to quite angry and full of ad hominem attacks on Paul Saladino.

I have watch a lot of Prof Bart Kay videos. He has several channels. He explained elsewhere that he plays different characters on different channels. So, he is pretty harsh with people he critisise for audience purposes. It seems that a big part of his audience likes that. I don't really.

 

[Il Matto]

Dr Shawn Baker comments on the spread of woke ideology into the world of nutrition, which is nothing particularly new, sadly.
He mentions that many of the Animal Rebellion activists are likely mentally ill - no doubt it would be difficult to differentiate between those who are behaving the way they do because their brains are inflamed, and those who suffer from a personality disorder (or are the two connected?)

This is the protest that Dr Baker is referring to:

Animal Rebellion protesters block Muller and Arla dairy sites

"The group said it wanted "wholesale governmental support for farmers and fishing communities to transition to a plant-based food system and programme of rewilding that will secure a future for generations to come"

I'm a little lost for words on that..

 

[nicklebleu]

even when he eats fruit and raw honey, his blood sugar changes very little - probably enough to bring him briefly out of ketosis, but the effect is minimal, apparently

That's quite easy to explain: Fructose is a 5-ring sugar (as opposed to most other sugars which are 6-ring sugars) and is not metabolised by the normal sugar metabolism. It does not stimulate insulin much. It goes to the liver and is metabolised to glyceraldehyde, which then can enter the gluconeogenic pathway, or can be changed into fatty acids.

Hence it's effect on blood sugar is minimal and delayed.

 

[Il Matto]

That's quite easy to explain: Fructose is a 5-ring sugar (as opposed to most other sugars which are 6-ring sugars) and is not metabolised by the normal sugar metabolism. It does not stimulate insulin much. It goes to the liver and is metabolised to glyceraldehyde, which then can enter the gluconeogenic pathway, or can be changed into fatty acids.

Hence it's effect on blood sugar is minimal and delayed.

Thank you for the clarification nicklebleu. Question: do you think that fructose, as part of a whole food matrix (i.e. the whole fruit) is a preferable way to ingest carbohydrate? From my limited understanding, I would think that if fruit has a minimal impact in terms of insulin stimulation, then it's less likely to promote fat accumulation and all the negative effects that come with that..? Does fruit potentially have a place in a carnivore-ish diet?
Thanks in advance.

 

[anartist]

Thank you for the clarification nicklebleu. Question: do you think that fructose, as part of a whole food matrix (i.e. the whole fruit) is a preferable way to ingest carbohydrate? From my limited understanding, I would think that if fruit has a minimal impact in terms of insulin stimulation, then it's less likely to promote fat accumulation and all the negative effects that come with that..? Does fruit potentially have a place in a carnivore-ish diet?
Thanks in advance.

My understanding (open to correction) is that fructose is dealt with in the liver, and converted to lipids which are stored in the liver until they can be used by the body. So it is possible that high fruit consumption could lead to fatty liver (disease?)

 

[nicklebleu]

So it is possible that high fruit consumption could lead to fatty liver (disease?)

Yes, that’s the case. Fructose is considered one of the unhealthier sugars which should only be ingested in moderation. So preferably fruit that are low in sugar like berries.

Note that industrial sugar today is almost exclusively high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS).

 

[Amor]

Thank you for the clarification nicklebleu. Question: do you think that fructose, as part of a whole food matrix (i.e. the whole fruit) is a preferable way to ingest carbohydrate? From my limited understanding, I would think that if fruit has a minimal impact in terms of insulin stimulation, then it's less likely to promote fat accumulation and all the negative effects that come with that..? Does fruit potentially have a place in a carnivore-ish diet?
Thanks in advance.

I am in no way an expert, but my common sense tells me we shouldn't treat it as a source of fuel for our bodies because in fruits there is only so much energy compared to a piece of fat stake. Another thing to consider is that our bodies dont need sugar because the liver can make it from proteins and the bar for how much is too much sugar for the body is relatively low compared to fats or proteins.

 

[Il Matto]

Yes, that’s the case. Fructose is considered one of the unhealthier sugars which should only be ingested in moderation. So preferably fruit that are low in sugar like berries.

Note that industrial sugar today is almost exclusively high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS).

Thank you again. For a number of years now I have eaten what is essentially a carnivore diet; primarily various cuts of beef, occasional organ meats, eggs, butter and occasional cheese, which has made the world of difference in terms of how I feel and engage with life generally.
One of the reasons for my curiosity regarding fruit is that I experimented a while ago with introducing some berries and raw honey in my diet, which went quite horribly wrong..! Such is my proclivity to satisfy an otherwise suppressed 'sweet tooth', I quickly found myself eating more and more berries and honey, to the point where my helping of berries and honey was surpassing everything else in quantity, with all the usual self-soothing rationalisations that come with falling off the wagon, as it were. Needless to say, I had to do a bit of a reset and completely eliminate the fruit and honey. In short, moderation easily goes out the window with me when sugars are introduced into my diet, even with low-sugar fruits such as berries..

Another thing to consider is that our bodies dont need sugar because the liver can make it from proteins

Rather useful - thank you for your input!