The Carnivore Diet

[ignis.intimus]

Question for the US folks, do you have any recommendations for meat suppliers, ones with high quality grass-fed, grass-finished meat and ideally that offer good deals?

I've used these guys twice now and their meat is pretty good. They offer a 20% off coupon after your first order that you can use 15 days later.

100% Grass-Fed Beef | Buy Healthy Meats Online | US Wellness Meats

edit: I tried to nerf the hyperlink but it auto-fixed. do we not need to break hyper links anymore?

 

[3DStudent]

do we not need to break hyper links anymore?

You can simply paste them. Obscure if it embeds an unnecessarily large image, etc. I use US Wellness primarily too, but if you search pastured or grass fed meat, there are a couple other ones. You best want them to have no GMO feed, no grain feed, and now no mRNA vax. There was a session recently where pork and supermarket meat were discussed.

Edit: I see that session was posted on the previous page here.

 

[Turgon]

Another interesting observation is that I broke the carnivore diet for a day and had some treats, thinking I would be fine. However, the very next day, I noticed an immediate change in my mood and felt like I was back to square one. So, for now, I’m going to stick with the diet for as long as I can and focus on improving my gut health and lowering inflammation. My goal is to eventually tolerate more foods without having negative reactions. I’m also open to the possibility that I might be one of those people who needs to stay on a carnivore diet indefinitely.

Hi Jenn, have you had a chance to look into the l.reuteri yogurt? I listened to a number of William Davis' interviews on the subject and even though I can't find the exact one where it was mentioned, he did bring up the topic of carnivore and food sensitivities, and that if you can get the proper beneficial microbes, some of his patients have seen changes in their ability to tolerate certain foods that were once a no-go.

I'm about two months into the experiment and the SIBO die-off symptoms are VERY real and lasted a long time (nausea, headaches, increased environmental sensitivities), but lately I've crossed a threshold and am noticing much better digestion and less intestinal inflammation. Last night I had eggs and corn, which are major red flags for me, and even though I was inflamed afterwards and needed to take a nap, had the yogurt before bed and woke up fine. FWIW

 

[Altair]

Hi Jenn, have you had a chance to look into the l.reuteri yogurt? I listened to a number of William Davis' interviews on the subject and even though I can't find the exact one where it was mentioned, he did bring up the topic of carnivore and food sensitivities, and that if you can get the proper beneficial microbes, some of his patients have seen changes in their ability to tolerate certain foods that were once a no-go.

I'm about two months into the experiment and the SIBO die-off symptoms are VERY real and lasted a long time (nausea, headaches, increased environmental sensitivities), but lately I've crossed a threshold and am noticing much better digestion and less intestinal inflammation. Last night I had eggs and corn, which are major red flags for me, and even though I was inflamed afterwards and needed to take a nap, had the yogurt before bed and woke up fine. FWIW

He wrote a whole book about it: Super Gut: A Four-Week Plan to Reprogram Your Microbiome, Restore Health and Lose Weight which is highly recommended and actually he doesn't really recommend the carnivore diet. From the book:

Many people have inadvertently lost species from their microbiome. Follow a strict low-carb diet—whether you call it ketogenic, paleo, carnivorous, Atkins, or something else—and fail to include a variety of prebiotic fibers, polyphenols, and other nutrients microbes need that can only be sourced from plants, not animal products, and you do damage to your microbiome because the species you’ve starved out will not just reappear. Eating regimes that lack microbial nutrients diminish the diversity of bacterial species, that is, the number of unique microbial species—with higher diversity generally regarded as a sign of health—that exist in the gut. Some species are lost and other bacterial species that feed on the protective mucus lining of the GI tract, such as Akkermansia muciniphila, proliferate.

Yet there are millions of people who have embraced ketogenic, carnivorous, or other variations of extreme low-carb diets. (When carbohydrate intake is slashed to around 10 grams per meal, metabolism of fat stores causes the release of a by-product called ketones, thus the label “ketogenic diet.”)

Because prebiotic fibers that nourish microbes come only from plants—there are zero animal sources of prebiotic fibers (except for consumption of the contents of raw stomach and intestines)—slashing plant matter too far means that prebiotic fiber intake suffers. Some people who are mindful of this mistake maintain an intake of low-carb prebiotic fiber sources such as asparagus, garlic, and leeks, but they are the exception. Most people on such extreme diets rely on largely nonstarchy greens like spinach, kale, and broccoli, with generous servings of beef, pork, poultry, and fish but with no awareness of the injustice they are inflicting on their bowel microbes.

What happens when you follow one or another of these strict low-carb diets without maintaining generous intake of the fibers that nourish microbes? In addition to degradation of the mucus barrier that I discussed in Chapter 5, with plenty of science to guide us, we know that slashing carbs without compensating by maintaining prebiotic fiber intake has been shown to have the following consequences:

• Reduces bacterial species diversity. The healthiest people have the widest species diversity, that is, the greatest variety of bacterial species, while the unhealthiest people have the least species diversity with proliferation of undesirable species, especially fecal Enterobacteriaceae like E. coli, Salmonella, and Desulfovibrio, this last microbe being an especially nasty player that causes intestinal inflammation via increased levels of H2S. Fail to feed your microbiome and some species are reduced or lost entirely.

• Reduces bacterial species believed to be beneficial, such as Prevotella (species present in substantial numbers in the microbiomes of the Hadza, Malawi, and Yanomami), Bifidobacterium, and Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, the most important intestinal butyrate-producing microbe.

• Triggers proliferation of bile acid–tolerant species that lead to an increase in production of potentially carcinogenic forms of bile (“secondary” bile acids such as lithocolic and deoxycholic acids).

• Triggers overproliferation of bacterial species such as Akkermansia that consume human mucus in the absence of prebiotic fibers.

• Causes 50–75 percent lower production of intestinal butyrate, which nourishes the intestinal lining. Less butyrate means less protection from colon cancer and less suppression of Enterobacteriaceae.

We have the benefit of plenty of clinical observations of the results of ketogenic diets because thousands of children with epilepsy have been put on these diets to reduce the frequency of grand mal seizures that are poorly responsive to antiseizure drugs. Ketogenic diets have been used for this purpose since the 1920s and can reduce seizures by as much as 50 percent or more—no question: they work. Earlier experiences, unfortunately, upped the children’s fat intake that is required to maintain ketosis by supplementing with substantial quantities of corn oil, which, by itself, results in unhealthy consequences (e.g., increased intestinal “leakiness” to bacterial breakdown products, excessive oxidation upon heating). That practice has been abandoned, however, and kids now obtain higher fat intake with medium-chain triglycerides (MCTs), coconut oil, fatty meats, olive oil, and butter.

Many of these children on the ketogenic diet have been studied, and it’s been observed that they develop kidney stones (which children otherwise rarely experience), osteopenia (bone thinning), impaired growth, and cardiomyopathies (impaired heart muscle that can lead to heart failure). The same sorts of changes in bowel flora occur in both children and adults on strict low-carb diets, and these changes are associated with constipation and increased potential for diverticular disease.

The lack of prebiotic fiber has been shown to trigger proliferation of bacterial species such as Akkermansia muciniphilaand others, as discussed in Chapter 5, that have the unique ability to exist exclusively on human mucus. In other words, when deprived of prebiotic fibers, many bacterial species die or diminish in numbers, while Akkermansia thrives and overproliferates by consuming human mucus. This deteriorates the mucus lining of the intestines, allowing entry of bacteria into the intestinal wall along with intestinal inflammation and increased endotoxemia that then exports inflammation to other parts of the body. People typically experience the consequences of inadequate prebiotic fiber intake as increased levels of triglycerides, increased insulin resistance and high blood sugar, and increased blood pressure, changes that undo the initial beneficial effects of a low-carb diet.

Bottom line: Sure, limit your carbs, especially the most offensive to health of all: wheat, grains, and sugars. But be mindful of your prebiotic fiber intake to ensure that you are feeding your garden of happy microbes.

 

[Beau]

I attempted a carnivore reset at the beginning of the year and the worst part for me was the cortisol spike. I spent a few nights laying awake in bed unable to sleep half the night. As soon as I reintroduced carbs (only for dinner, breakfast is still just bacon/sausage) my sleep went back to normal. Melatonin wouldn't even do anything.

 

[aragorn]

I attempted a carnivore reset at the beginning of the year and the worst part for me was the cortisol spike. I spent a few nights laying awake in bed unable to sleep half the night. As soon as I reintroduced carbs (only for dinner, breakfast is still just bacon/sausage) my sleep went back to normal. Melatonin wouldn't even do anything.

I've had exactly the same experience. For some years ago, I was a whole year on a carnivore diet. I enjoyed the sharpness and clarity of the mind and even experienced what you perhaps could call 'downloading of information/ideas' (from somewhere, maybe the 'information fiedl'). However, my sleep was seriously disrupted. I couldn't sleep more than maybe 4-5 hours per night, sometimes I barely slept 3h. Despite that I had pretty good energy levels during the day because of the boost the diet gave me, I could perform 'amazingly' with only 3h hours of sleep. However, after many months on the diet the lack of sleep started to bother me more and I got worried about the long term negative effects it might have. And, yes, I tried melatonin, even in very big doses but some nights it didn't do a thing.

I often long for that amazing clarity of mind that the carnivore diet gave me but I don't want to go back sleeping only 3h/night. These days I'd say that I'm mostly on a ketogenic diet but since I've stopped counting the carbs I consume, I'm not sure if I'm 'in the zone' every day. Maybe it's a stupid thing to do, to not be clearly on 'either side'? I mean, if I'm not using fat as a fuel all the time but still eat (like you) only bacon and butter (in my coffee) at breakfast, can it be dangerous? @Keyhole , as you have researched these things a lot, would you say it's counterproductive to keep yo-yoing between ketosis and non-ketosis, or at least not be 100% sure if you're in ketosis?

 

[odin343]

You will die prematurely from eating meat, your blood vessels will be clogged with plaques from fatty foods. The one on my avatar was a Peskovegetarian, and if it hadn't been for the murder (damn British intelligence, damn it), he would have lived for many more years. Meat charres a person from the inside, and fish brightens. These are his words. This is Grigory Rasputin. I don't think you're smarter than him, you stupid sheep))

 

[Beau]

You will die prematurely from eating meat, your blood vessels will be clogged with plaques from fatty foods. The one on my avatar was a Peskovegetarian, and if it hadn't been for the murder (damn British intelligence, damn it), he would have lived for many more years. Meat charres a person from the inside, and fish brightens. These are his words. This is Grigory Rasputin. I don't think you're smarter than him, you stupid sheep))

If you think we're sheep, then you'd probably be happier on a different forum

 

[Gaby]

I think the carnivore diet is mostly for people who are born with certain genetic anomalies that nullify all the above arguments against it. I resisted the carnivore diet until I learned that I have a congenital disability in my conjunctive tissue. I simply develop immune reactions (whether delayed or acute) to all vegetable kingdom foods because my intestine is permeable or leaky due to the defect in the conjunctive tissue. Furthermore, that condition will never change no matter what I do because of genetic causes. Also, my body compensates the deficiency by activating mastocytes, which further compounds the problem and doesn't do anything to heal the conjunctive tissue. It's no wonder I'm thriving in the carnivore diet.

I believe 2% or 3% or possibly more in any given population, especially Caucasian descendants, qualify for similar problems. My guess is that you'll find these people following the carnivore diet for long periods of time with absolute success.

 

[Altair]

I attempted a carnivore reset at the beginning of the year and the worst part for me was the cortisol spike. I spent a few nights laying awake in bed unable to sleep half the night. As soon as I reintroduced carbs (only for dinner, breakfast is still just bacon/sausage) my sleep went back to normal. Melatonin wouldn't even do anything.

The same for me when I was on keto: cortisol over the roof and miserable sleep.

 

[ignis.intimus]

I was mistaken about that coupon, it's 20% back on your first order. I thought it was 20% off on you next order. I was about to stock up haha.

the SIBO die-off symptoms are VERY real

SIBO is no fun. It's a very tricky thing to treat, some people take antibiotics and it goes away, others struggle with it for years or end up living with it for life. I haven't cured mine yet, but what has had the biggest impact for me is resolving any psychosomatic trauma, particularly anything that impinges the diaphragm. Barring missing an organ, a genetic defect, or some other extreme extenuating circumstance, it's my belief the body should be able to resolve SIBO on its own via proper undulating waves (the MMC migratory motor complex) mediated by proper diaphragmatic contraction and expansion. If you notice, many body builders end up with "barrel belly's" which I'm sure is SIBO, and I bet is due to all of the tension caused by an over emphasis on strength and lack of attention to flexibility.

In the past few years I've made some great headway in reducing my bloat and it's corresponded perfectly with a reduction in overall body tension, particularly in the parts of my body that impinge my diaphragm. When I get a flare up these days it's always due to one of these areas being inflamed. The pain from the inflammation causing my body to naturally reduce the amount of expansion in diaphragm; pain avoidance. I'll take some magnesium, practice some targeted deep breathing, and after some hours it passes. I'm quite sure once I fix my upper back where most of my pain is my body will simply flush those critters for good.

 

[3DStudent]

In the past few years I've made some great headway in reducing my bloat and it's corresponded perfectly with a reduction in overall body tension, particularly in the parts of my body that impinge my diaphragm.

I think mine is a small hiatal hernia, but i definitely have abdominal tension and get many muscle knots in that whole area too. But wondering if your stomach makes gurgling noises when you do deep belly inhalation?

 

[ignis.intimus]

if your stomach makes gurgling noises when you do deep belly inhalation?

Sometimes, usually after a high inflammation event elsewhere and I finally release some tension in the area by xyphoid process or the bottom of my ribs by stomach or liver.

I have/had a lot of abdominal tension as well and a major contributor was lack of core muscle engagement. Something that has really helped me is planking. It was pretty amazing how much it opened things up for me in that regard, such that now I can actually engage my core either standing or sitting and feel it. My bodyworkers had been telling me for years to engage my core but I just couldn't do it, I could never actually feel my abdominal muscles engage. Planking really let me isolate better, and what happened first few times was actually engagement of upper glutes in a way they had been desperate for. My body was ripe for it, so only after the second day or so of doing that I had a big release in glutes, then could engage core while planking. After only a few days of that, my core opened up and I could engage while laying down. It was a great feeling, I was like "ahhhh!" so that's what it's supposed to feel like. I spent most of my down time that day just laying down engaging my core as much as possible. I was like a kid with a new toy

 

[Fluffy]

You will die prematurely from eating meat, your blood vessels will be clogged with plaques from fatty foods. The one on my avatar was a Peskovegetarian, and if it hadn't been for the murder (damn British intelligence, damn it), he would have lived for many more years. Meat charres a person from the inside, and fish brightens. These are his words. This is Grigory Rasputin. I don't think you're smarter than him, you stupid sheep))

Can you please post all of his scientific, peer reviewed studies, also any other documentation he collected, anecdotal, surveys... all data… don’t be shy, I’ll read it…

I hate fish and most plants, prove me wrong! Baaa

 

[jhonny]

You will die prematurely from eating meat

I don't know if you are aware of this: People in Hong Kong have the longest life expectancy People in Hong Kong Have the Longest Life Expectancy in the World: Some Possible Explanations - PMC, and people in Hong Kong eat (per capita) more meat than any other country in the world on an annual basis: Map shows which countries eat the most meat.