The forgiveness lesson

[Jones]

Hi Trobar, I've attached an article on forgiveness in regards to sexual abuse that I found helpful - well some of it. It's from The Journal of Psychology and Theology. It breaks forgiveness down into three types - judicial, psychological and relational. It talks about how pressuring victims into forgiveness can actually be harmful to the victims, there are probably times where forgiveness can be STS. It could be, and I'm open to being mistaken, that the pressure that you're placing on yourself to forgive is the root of your illness - and that's what your body is screaming 'no' to.

One of the statements it makes that I don't agree with is it suggests praying for the perpetrator/s and we've learned here that is generally not a good idea if the perpetrator/s haven't asked for that. It also mentions having an inner desire for the perpetrator/s healing - but even that could be STS if that's not what the perpetrator is asking for.

On the subject of relational forgiveness it basically states that forgiveness is a two way street - it's dependent on the perpetrator/s accepting and admitting that they have caused harm, taking full responsibility for it and committing to change - but even then they don't earn forgiveness until they can fully demonstrate that change for a long period of time and it doesn't mean that the victim has to re-enter any kind of relationship with them. I don't think too many abusers would authentically take those steps.

On the subject of psychological forgiveness it talks about letting go of any need of personal revenge or hatred, but that it shouldn't be pressured until the victim has developed or regained self respect because hatred and anger or rage can be a proper response to abuse. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the perpetrator/s escape retribution, just that we personally lose any personal investment in that happening.

In any case, maybe taking it a bit easier on yourself as far as forgiveness goes for now will be helpful and concentrate on the sorts of things that can help you strengthen self respect as well as processing anger as others have said.

Not an easy journey for sure, but a worthwhile one.

 

[Michael B-C]

Thank you Trobar or your courage - your great courage - in starting to share what you have lived through and are still living the ghost of.

There is not a great deal of comfort I am equipped to offer you but maybe a suggested perspective.

The only person I suggest you ever need to forgive is yourself. You do not need to start with forgiving those who have willfully done you such great harm. This 'give freely of forgiveness to others' / 'turn the other cheek' mantra of our culture is lethal to my mind as a first insisted upon step to healing. You do not need to forgive the unforgivable - your righteous anger is a natural, healthy and absolutely necessary stage that deserves support and respect/honoring. You have great reason to be angry - that is a sign of your fighting for your god given right to be, to be whole and to not be so harmed by those who abused their 'power' over you, especially when so young and so vulnerable when you had no say in the matter.

Rather I suggest consider working towards using your anger to explore and come to understanding of what form of creatures could be and act so depraved when they should have been so loving and caring. We do not need to forgive the vampire who drains our blood, but we can strive - through knowledge input - to understand why the vampire exists, how it is made, how it differs from us and why it behaves the way it does - and how therefore we come to be in relation to it. This brings greater capacity to comprehend the seemingly incomprehensible. It in no way makes it right, or lesser, but it can help us to see better how and why this happened. But this understanding does not have to lead to any form of forgiveness - far from it - it may never come or be necessary - this is something we must only freely chose to come to when and if we are fully ready, and then only if it truly helps us to overcome the teeth marks they have sunk venomously into us. And if it never comes, so be it. Such behavior does not warrant forgiveness.

However that knowledge and comprehension may lead us to the most vital forgiveness - that of forgiving ourselves. This is the only and essential journey when facing abuse. Because the abused victim quite often internalizes the experience as being due to some fault or cause of their own (I wasn't worth loving, I didn't fight back hard enough, I allowed this to happen, why didn't I resist more? What's wrong with me that I brought this down upon myself? etc). This can be the hidden shadow side of the anger turned in upon self.

It is important I think to powerfully and unequivocally acknowledge that you were utterly blameless - you did not deserve or bring these terrible abuses upon yourself. You were given no choice in the matter - and that forgiving the child who succumbed to these intolerable pressures and experiences is a pivotal possible turn in the path that is in your power to walk, step by faltering step and in your own good time. I say again, that that child was and still is blameless. That child was harmed through no fault of its own. That child deserves your love and your forgiveness and your compassion as it does mine and all of us here. And that child is rightly enraged about what it went through. Only if and when this makes any sense and starts to process will you then perhaps begin to come through this. But as for your abusers, no matter what they could and should have been and meant to you - the hardest part is to let them go. To cast them off from you as being not of you but rather done unto you. They are not you and you are not them. You are a free child of a universe that loves you as well as makes them - and accepting that paradox as being equally valid but in some way separate parts of our complex reality might help you to accept the terrible lesson you have been through and begin to heel yourself.

Easily said. Harder done. My heart goes out to you. All I can offer you is the thought that others here are with you, will try to stand alongside you and offer support. But only you can choose which journey you want and feel able to make, and how and when you are ready to attempt it; no one should tell you that but you.

 

[Trobar]

I think it's more important to get out that anger. Don't worry about their forgiveness, especially since they are not seeking it. One method of doing this is spend 10 minutes a day writing, starting out 'I'm so angry because...' or writing a letter to the people who have hurt you telling them everything you've gone through - no holding back in whatever exercise you choose. Then burn what you've written. Release that anger because holding it in is poison.



I don't understand why you think you've failed then? You're conflicting ideas about forgiveness may actually be keeping that anger in when it needs to be felt and released.

Hello Renaissance,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on my post. I actually don't think I have "failed". I have "thus far not succeeded". Fortunately among my probable futures, at least one of them includes 'getting it'. If for some reason I had decided to just give up and be willing to exist as a container for hatred and anger, I would not be here writing and inviting input. Perhaps you would be willing to expand on what you understand to be my "conflicting ideas".

 

[Trobar]

Yes, you should forgive yourself, cause most of the people who lived that situation says that some part of them feels guilty. Guilty to have not seen, guilty to have not been able to prevent to fall in this, etc. You experienced the contrary of love, so give love back to yourself. unless your path is to be the one that must be sacrificed and negated. I'm not in your shoes, so I can tell...

Before giving love to them, give it to you ! Charity begins at home.

Hello Maat, Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it.

 

[Trobar]

Hi Trobar, I'm sure this was difficult to share and deeply personal. And I am so sorry your health is suffering along with what you are going through. I can only share that I was angry for so long to, although my circumstances pail to what you've endured. It took me a long time to recognize my anger and then deal with it. I chose a little at a time but after coming here to the forum, I realized that the experiences I had and many other peoples experiences were important lessons. When reading some of the recommended books I could see and understand what they were talking about when they were describing pathological people. I think if we hadn't experienced it first hand in one way or another, it would be difficult to really understand just what they are and do.

The way it helped me was I kept telling myself that it was a lesson, I had to go through to be able to understand for one but if it wasn't for the last one I dealt with, I may have not found the forum when I did. So in essence I changed my thoughts to be thankful to them for the push to do better and look for answers which led me here. It was not easy and it took a long time but it has helped me to release a lot of the anger. I still think about some of those experiences though and while the emotion is not completely gone because I will dream of those people from time to time, it is not as vivid as it used to be.

I also agree with Maat, that forgiving yourself is as important if not more. I have a harder time with that than forgiving others because I have been harder on myself than I should be. Those types of people may never change but each of our lives have been changed because of them. I feel like using the knowledge I've gained to better myself and those around me is the best way to make sense of what happened and put those experiences to better use. I wish I could expand more but I do hope it helps a little.

Hello KristinLynne,
Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it.

 

[Trobar]

Thank you for sharing, Trobar. I can definitely relate and understand what kind of repercussions abusive childhood/growing up can have.

It could be a matter of a different social environment or mentality, but when I was working on healing the self (and it is still work in progress) I didn't concentrate on the concept of "forgiving them". Only if it related to severing the "emotional connection".

You see, strong emotions, either love or hate, or fear, keep us connected to this person, even if only in our mind. We may be far away from our abusers in a physical sense, but as long as they continue to "occupy" a part in our mind that is associated with strong emotions (like resentment), we will continue to feed this connection. And this way we may actually continue participating in a similar dynamic and replaying it, because this is the only thing a part of us is familiar with.

So in practical sense this "forgiveness" has more to do with you and what steps you can take in order to stop this energy leakage, and how to use this energy to heal and improve yourself.

As for various illnesses, nowadays there is solid research that shows that abuse in early life does have an effect in adult life as well, and often simply talking everything over and understanding it intellectually isn't enough. Although it does play an important role in healing. Sometimes it requires a combined or an integrative approach.

Don't know if you heard or read about Polyvagal theory, or about healing modalities based on this theory. The idea is that early trauma can be stored in muscles, or cause disregulation of nervous or vagal systems, and this can lead to various diseases or influence person's life in general.

You can read about it on the forum here. There are also other threads on the topic of polyvagal theory.

Also, recently I started listening to Irene Leyon's videos. Here's one as an example, but she has a lot of material on the channel, and you may find something more appropriate to your personal situation. Personally, I found her explanations quite insightful and spot on.

Mind Matters show also has couple of videos on the topic, if you haven't watched them altready. They have a lot of interesting theoretical information.

Hello Keit,
Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it. I have not studied anything regarding the "Polyvagal theory" or any healing modalities based on this theory. Thank you for providing the link.

 

[Maat]

Trobar, if all would be good, I think you wouldn't have those health troubles. I think your body tells you to be in yourself, admit your anger because all we, other spectators could see it's normal to feel anger in this situation. Express this anger -- and not against you, but against those perpetrators -- and then, after you have expressed all this and not turn that against yourself, you will be able to give a true forgiveness. And for that, I tell you, YES, you're lovable

 

[Trobar]

I'm sorry that you had to g through such experiences, Trobar. And I thank you for sharing a bit about them.

I agree that when it comes to abuse and the people who abused aren't asking for forgiveness and are not really capable of realizing the wrongness of what they've done, forgiving them might not be the best approach.

You see, sometimes we can make things more uncomfortable and harder if we are trying hard to forgive, because we have to kind of force ourselves to do it, to feel a particular emotion (forgiveness), when it really isn't there for us, or we're not ready to go there... yet. So it's kind of like going against ourselves... and that's also something that could be related to autoimmune disease, if you think about it (the body going against itself). I'm not saying that this is exactly your case, but maybe it's something you can think about, and maybe you don't need to force yourself to forgive now and go through the lingering emotions of anger and resentment as Renaissance suggested.

Perhaps, a concept that could help is acceptance. It certainly helped me a great deal. Accepting that the people who did this are what they are, doesn't mean condoning their actions. You can still think that those actions were wrong, and that they will never regret it, yet, it is just what they are and nothing will change it. The difficult part is accepting that bad things could have happened to us, and that they hurt, and that we are angry, and yes, that is part of the process, but maybe, instead of fighting the emotions you have, which are normal, considering what you've been through, you can also accept them without feeling that have to forgive other people. Forgiveness may come later on.

This doesn't mean that you have to go deeply into those emotions and let them control you. You can perceive them, accept they are there, trying to keep a space between you, the observer, and the emotions, knowing that they're part of you but not you, and know that those emotions have their right to be there, so to say, that you don't have to change them to something else, and that they will pass too. Writing can help create this "space" and burning what you write can be a way to let go symbolically which can have a real impact on letting go internally.

Hello Yas,

Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it. Your input was very thought provoking. What I feel begins with what I think. I achieved a broader understanding of this after reading "The Molecules of Emotion" by Dr. Candance Pert. I understood that the memories that seem to haunt me always produce angry thoughts. Although the word "rage" would be more precise than the word anger. So . . . my thoughts are generating a molecular outcome within my physical manifestation. In my specific case, the molecular outcome has been illness and a 'list' of autoimmune conditions. The body fighting the body. Initially I thought that perhaps this was no more than a way out. Death of the human body. I will share that I was not depressed about this. I was patiently waiting. However . . . and I always laugh when I remember patiently waiting to die. Obviously, this was not the case and I did not die. All the specialists that treat my conditions tell me I'm not going to die anytime soon. No free lunch for Trobar. No skipping grades and jumping from Kindergarten to High School. I am a warrior. People who have experienced a great deal of abuse understand what I mean when I write that I am a warrior. This is what many people do. This is one choice available. One day I read "The battle is always there" communicated by the C's and I actually said out loud to myself "You got that right!". Within the context of the session "the battle" was a spiritual battle
between STS and STO. I, however, jumped to my life which I thought of as a battle of surviving abuse.

I was thinking this morning that my issue is that I am very STS. In the specific, I will write that my thoughts were that I want
to forgive in order to benefit myself. My thoughts were that if I achieve this I will not generate a karmic outcome to . . . myself.
Is it possible that the whole subject is about nothing more than serving myself? Yes. It is possible.

All the responses I've received from the members of the forum hold great value.

 

[Trobar]

I am sorry triobar you had gone through the situation. I am glad therapist had been helpful. At personal level, we can forgive others to not hurt ourselves from the effects, but we also needs to forgive ourselves. But that also needs understanding of wide range of effects abuse creates. Often guilt(for ??? Fill as it is appropriate) at different levels. You are only in control of your self not others (Abuser) whether other personZIS capable of understanding the mistake and remorse.

The author of ‘Tao of fully feeling Harvesting forgiveness from blame’ Peter walker says ‘forgive but not forget’. According to him, one Can have intellectual understanding and can say forgiven but other parts of one self may show the symptoms of abuse. People may lockup their emotion And scared of express feel . He says “One has to TrueType grieve to release”.

Ultimately we have to heal from the effects of the abuse. That includes physical release Of ones own Trauma, intellectual understanding of varied guilts it produces, able to feel safe enough express the feelings and emotions as if the abuse doesn’t have any Effect anymore.

Hello seek10. Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it. I have not healed from the effects of the abuse. That is obvious. Many members are recommending that I consider forgiving myself. When so many are making the same recommendation, it would be very foolish to ignore this as a very good idea. This is new for me. Trobar forgiving Trobar? I feel cowardly about this subject.

 

[Debra]

Wow, @Trobar ,
I read your response late last night before going to bed.
As I was drifting off, I was marveling at your strength, your determination to survive, and yes, I agree, you are a Warrior.

From my observations, especially in these Strange days, I am seeing a few women from our age generation, asking more questions, and in my opinion, they are attempting to put their "puzzle pieces" into some coherence, in order to make sense of surviving the lessons we have lived.
I am getting glimpses, every once in a while, of the mosaic of my life, and I am looking forward to finding more pieces.
This Adventure is getting really Interesting! LOL!

It all began two years ago with hypertension, then hashimotos thyroiditis, then rheumatoid arthritis, then kidney failure, then Lupus. I'm somewhat of a warrior and it takes a lot to bring me down. Not bragging here. I had to be a warrior in order to survive all of these ongoing challenges and lessons.

Excellent summary and exactly what I asked you for.
Thank you!
I must say, you're truly on a Healing Path, and in true Warrior Fashion, you are getting it all done at the SAME TIME!!
First, "Don't Panic!"
These all sound scary, but they are NOT.
You have several brain systems all performing resets on stuff(organs and tissues) all at the same time, so you gotta be nice to yourself, understand?

Now, this is where I get to put in my disclaimer:
"What I am posting is Research for Entertainment Purposes Only.
I have no authority nor license to give any medical, psychological, or life skills advice, I just have information to share, for entertainment purposes only."

Remember, Learning is FUN!
That's the entertainment part, in the disclaimer.

So, if you can take a bit of time and look over my Posts on the Forum, you will find that I am not a Believer in Darwinian Medical Theories.

In the posts I have made in the last year and a half, since I came back to posting on this Forum, you will find links to information I have found.
There are a few books that contributed a few puzzle pieces and a lot of Knowledge, some took a bit of weeding, please know, I would not, and have not posted frivolously or lightly.
Except in the "What are you Listening to" music thread.
I really love music, and my tastes in music are varied and change with the "weather".

So, like you, my Lessons and Quest map, were put together by my Family and community.

Some of my most Beloved ones, became victims of The System, true Believers that died harsh and drugged deaths.
Many other Family members were Cruel and Harsh Administrators of the Systems, and they definitely showed me "Who I did NOT want to BE like".

I kept asking "What?" when my Beloved Family members became ill.
I kept asking "How?" when my Beloved Family members were harmed by the treatments and drugs.
I kept asking "Why?" when they died.

To all these questions, I got the same answers and responses from the Drs, that all the Religious leaders had given me, when I had asked them the same questions:
"Cause unknown", or MUPS- Medically Unexplained physical symptoms.
"It's Gods Will"
"These things can only be known by....god"

I went after the answers for myself, pursuing a Medical Education, but, I saw behind the Curtain, and it was all knives and drugs, and magical Latin words and terms that bedazzled.
They did not have the answers.
Smoke and Mirrors.

I kept digging and I found several Humble, Kind, Brilliant people who had some answers.
Answers that are simple and clear Understandings.

I have studied German New Medicine since 2006/07.
I really "Leaned into it",to use a popular phrase, and BOY, did it pay off!
GNM, is the most complete, comprehensive, scientific body of knowledge I have ever learned.
It is also spiritually comforting, to find out that, yes, your Feelings and Thoughts really do MATTER.

This Foundational understanding of the "What" How, and Why"of physical issue manifestations and situations, differs GREATLY from the beliefs and practices of the 3rd Density STS medical system.
Here is the web site:

Welcome to LearningGNM

Welcome to the LearningGNM website, created by Caroline Markolin, Ph.D., for the common good.

learninggnm.com

The therapy with the psychologist was very helpful. I had never opened up with anyone about any of this and being able to just talk about it and express my anger was a great relief.

Wow, that looks like Divine intervention at it finest, for you to find a true, good hearted Soul to "Bear Witness" for you.
I consider that a very good sign that this is the "Future Path" you wanna be on, imo.

Can I ask you when exactly were you involved with this Therapy?

Were you involved with the Therapy at the same time as the physical issues started to manifest, or was therapy started after a diagnosis of one or more of the "health" issues?
I guess I am looking for the trigger that started up these "repairing" and "healing" symptoms.

My reaction was 'Wow! a real human being! He was the first person in my life that provided compassion and support.

Oh, how my Heart aches for you.
Now I am the one crying, I know that feeling, I understand that feeling viscerally.
If I could physically Hug you right now, it would be a cruncher!

All these "feels" kinda Segways into this other suggestion I have.
I posted a big thread on TAT, a while back.
It is the Therapy that I use:

Hands on Healing and the Tapas Acupressure Technique

I am posting this information for anyone who may be interested in yet -another- self healing method. :cool2: Using Just your own hands, on your own head. After having read so many shared posts, written so honestly, and from the Heart regarding unresolved emotions that are surfacing during...

cassiopaea.org

 

[Renaissance]

If for some reason I had decided to just give up and be willing to exist as a container for hatred and anger, I would not be here writing and inviting input.

Fwiw, I didn't have any impression at all that you were giving up at all to be a container of hatred and anger. I do see your strength in talking about all this, working through all you have, and in your efforts to continue healing. I rather think deep emotions like anger are justified and true to the pain you experienced. I think that anger is right to be felt. It's a tough emotion to process, at least I know it is for me. I think tapping into anger (and any potential emotions underneath it) with the intent of releasing it can be pretty healing.

Perhaps you would be willing to expand on what you understand to be my "conflicting ideas".

The potential conflict seemed where you want to forgive but also see where the people who have hurt you aren't seeking forgiveness, and where you are emotionally with all that goes into that. I was just trying to say that I think it's okay to put away ideas of forgiveness in order to feel and process any anger or other difficult or persisting emotions, if in case those ideas might be acting as a barrier towards that end.

 

[Trobar]

Hello Trobar,
From what I understand, forgiveness may mean different things to different people and different situations. I'm always reminded of a saying I heard when I was little "forgive but do not forget" or something like that.
When it comes to people who did us wrong in the past, what they did is still wrong and will always be wrong. There is no changing that. However, what can be changed is the way it affects us in the present.

One thing that comes to mind is detachment. This is physical detachment first (these people are not in my life anymore and even if they were, they cannot wrong me the same way as before) but more importantly emotional detachment. These people do not matter, they are abstract forces of nature like the rain or a random dog in the street. It's not that simple of course, but the way I understand forgiveness in this context is the ability to be free of the connection one has with these "people" through the hurt and trauma. It is as if one is still invisibly connected to them and then the process is to cut those wires and wash them away, in order to be completely "detached" and independent.

Of course, I don't claim that it is easy. It's probably a gradual process you will have to go through. However, the point is that you don't need to burden yourself with not being able to forget if it means to redeem them or to deny what they did. However, maybe if you approach forgiveness as emotional detachment and independence, it could be a more approachable an approach.
hope it helps somehow and in any case you have our moral support.

Fwiw, I didn't have any impression at all that you were giving up at all to be a container of hatred and anger. I do see your strength in talking about all this, working through all you have, and in your efforts to continue healing. I rather think deep emotions like anger are justified and true to the pain you experienced. I think that anger is right to be felt. It's a tough emotion to process, at least I know it is for me. I think tapping into anger (and any potential emotions underneath it) with the intent of releasing it can be pretty healing.



The potential conflict seemed where you want to forgive but also see where the people who have hurt you aren't seeking forgiveness, and where you are emotionally with all that goes into that. I was just trying to say that I think it's okay to put away ideas of forgiveness in order to feel and process any anger or other difficult or persisting emotions, if in case those ideas might be acting as a barrier towards that end.

Hello Renaissance,
Thank you very much for responding to my question about my conflicting ideas. Actually, I don't think I realized that there was indeed a conflict between my desire to forgive and the fact that the people who hurt me were not at all interested in seeking forgiveness. I am thinking that I had great difficulty reconciling these two facts. Thanks again!

 

[anka]

Hello Trobar, I want to thank you for sharing your story with us

When I read that, I immediately thought of neurofeedback. I own one of Neuroptimal systems which is often very helpful in cases like yours but because I am no expert, so I posted the story anonymously in one of FB groups to find out what other providers think of it. Let me republish the exchange here:

I want to ask you about one particular case that is related to childhood abuse. I believe that this person would strongly benefit from neurofeedback because what she describes is essentially a deeply seated trauma but I would like to hear your suggestions. The person is currently working with psychotherapist, and successfully, but she is not able to get rid of her anger towards the abusers and is very ill (which she attributes to the disability to forgive) which is crippling her and thus making recovery even more difficult. Here's the story:

"I have been seriously ill for the last two years. I know that the root cause of my illness is the fact that I am "stuck" in what we perceive to be the past. My history includes incest as a child, fanatical abusive cult members for parents and marriage to an abusive sociopath. I have thus far not succeeded in forgiving these people and I am certain this is the major obstacle that hinders my recovery. Learning to forgive is a profoundly challenging and valuable lesson for me.

I do not wish to revisit the sordid details of my past experiences. This is very painful and I have already addressed this in therapy with a psychologist.

I am posting because perhaps some of you that read this post have struggled with this lesson. Intellectually ... Emotionally ... I still feel so much anger that I have failed to forgive them. I do want to forgive and I want to forgive while I am still here."

I would be surprised if Neurofeedback did not help! There are hundreds of individual stories of remarkable shifts in exactly this area - when years of talk therapy has not been able to resolve it then the person starts neurofeedback and is suddenly able to make huge breakthroughs and actually use the tools their therapist has been trying to give them. Some therapists now start their clients off with neurofeedback before starting with talk therapy and find this to be more successful.

Reply to this comment: There was a story of a woman who was abused sexually and benefited greatly from Neurofeedback. It was Neuroptimal she used. I'm sure there are videos on YouTube. Let me have a look.

Reply: Yes. Here's her story:

Yes. And perhaps body-mind therapies such as CST, Rolfing, Rosen Method, SE, NARM or osteopathy alongside for helping to process the trauma held in the body.

Reply: nfb doesnt just train the brain - the brain is connected to the central nervous system with vagus nerve connecting to organs etc so neurofeedback is a mind-body therapy or intervention

Reply: Other body-mind therapies. It depends on the person's level of bodily awareness. Yes, NO works as a body-mind therapy. It helps if the trainer has or can find bodily awareness also.

Reply: I agree. Yoga is a perfect adjunct to nfb because it brings conscious awareness to breathing and the body that would otherwise remain unnoticed.

Yes, I would think it would very very likely help! I have had victims of childhood abuse become symptom-free and get off all their meds with the help of LENS.

I am quite sure you would find a provider in your area. If you were interested and could not find one, I will post a contact here who's got over twenty NeurOptimal machines which you can rent for use at home. You can also read the neurofeedback thread if you are curious or listen to this great interview with inventor and developer of NeurOptimal.

Hope it helps

 

[Renaissance]

I own one of Neuroptimal systems which is often very helpful in cases like yours but because I am no expert, so I posted the story anonymously in one of FB groups to find out what other providers think of it.

Anka, did you ask Trobar if it was okay to share her story? I understand you're trying to help but consider that personal information shared here should be kept here unless someone says it's okay. Giving and maintaining trust is super important when people put themselves out there and share on this forum.

 

[anka]

Anka, did you ask Trobar if it was okay to share her story? I understand you're trying to help but consider that personal information shared here should be kept here unless someone says it's okay. Giving and maintaining trust is super important when people put themselves out there and share on this forum.

I did not and I believed the text is so general it cannot by any means be used to track, intimidate or harm anybody (i.e. Trobar). I would not share the story if I had even a little doubt otherwise. I am sorry if I messed it up. Of course what you say is a very important to keep in mind. If mods think the previous post should be deleted, be it. Trobar, if you want me to delete the FB group post, I apologize for possible damage and will do so immediately. You are right, Renaissance. I should have asked. Have gone way too much ahead of myself, thinking of potential benefit without ensuring privacy and safety of members. I'm very sorry. Awaiting suggestions...