The Gay "Germ" Hypothesis

Just to point out something here, in my mind this thread started in a very interesting way. I feel like we know pretty much that homosexuality exist. Is it biological natural? no, BUT it exists so at the same time it is ''natural'', that is my understanding. How do I feel about homosexuality itself? I think pretty much that everyone have an opinion about it and may feel different about it in certain things. My life experience (good or bad) doesn't take away the FACT that I wanna know how it originated. Its hard to maintain the focus in this discussion due to programming, propaganda and social issues that influenced our information about it (and in my case my life experience as many other gay members in a way or another) I get that.
If I can provide myself as a example I could say that maybe child experiences I had could have influence my sexual orientation growing up. I'm not a 100% sure that that was the cause and I can be also 100% wrong about that. But at least I had that clue. Could it be that in reality our psychic and mental state as a child is really that fragile that can modify our sexual orientation as an adult? I know there are a lot of prove that child traumas influence us as an adult very badly depending of the case and situation. We have the example of some sociopaths who weren't born like that. Maybe if there is a germ, could be the case that that germ or gen? + trauma (that activates it): result in homosexuality? or other sexual orientations? its a very interesting subject.
 
In that respect, how does spirit/conscousness interface with the genetic body affect and effect charge? What does a negative charge soul do to a positive charge body? Does it hinder development? Does it effect some sort of karmic degaussing?

There are way more questions than answers and I don't think it is helpful to engage in facile evasions of the crux of the matter by bringing in emotional rationalizations based on bad science or anti-science.

I too regret that the definition of "natural" wasn't further clarified earlier. The implications of what Laura wrote above seem quite vast, and I would hope that it gives some people pause, and curiosity to find out more. When there is a mismatch or an "unnatural" factor of any sort, it doesn't mean that all is lost or even "bad", but I think it's useful to consider the limitations or challenges that may accompany it, so that one still does one's best, without identifying with the "I'm different/special" schtick, but rather feeling that "regardless of where I'm at in terms of growth, I'm committed to doing my darn best, limitations/challenges and all." That applies to everyone to a greater or lesser degree, so there is no reason to feel "singled out".

It kind of boggles my mind that these issues are hanging fire and gays aren't even concerned about them, apparently; or few of them, at any rate.

If you are born - or become - somehow "out of the majority natural order of things", it seems to me that it should drive you to figure out and understand why instead of trying to create what really amount to excuses or ridiculous justifications.

It took me 65 years to find out about the mutation I carry and all during those years, most of my life, I was searching for the reason and experimenting with anything and everything that came to hand that might give me some relief. And of course, a whole lot of that searching resulted in thousands of pages of material made available to all others, some of it very helpful to many people.

We aren't talking about exactly the same thing here, because, as it happens, I can deal with the mutation with certain dietary practices and application of selected therapies. It's not a perfect solution, but it works well enough to keep me up and running.

But if I was gay, like really hard core "no other way", I would sure want to know why and what effect it might have on my spiritual development because I damn sure wouldn't want to do such a life over again. And that means I'd be seriously picky about what ideas I adopted as explanations. Geeze, if you've been messed with from the get-go, wouldn't you think that the General Law and its operatives have a vested interest in keeping you in 3D?

You can't stop being gay, but you can sure work on trying to figure out why and learning everything you can get hold of about anything that might even remotely relate to it so that you can also figure out how to optimize spiritual growth.
 
Regarding the causes of homosexuality, there's this interesting session from 2010:

Q: (L) We received a question from a reader who wants to ask: "Is homosexuality determined at the early imprinting stage?"

A: In some instances. There are many reasons.

Q: (L) The second part of the question reads: "If not, what determines sexual orientation at an early age?" Well, they just said there are many reasons. Can you list any of those other reasons?

A: Past life influences and more rarely, genetics.

Q: (L) So which of these three reasons is the most frequent?

A: Early imprinting could be said to be marginally most frequent cause.

Q: (Ailén) So you were very close, Laura.

(Perceval) Does the early imprinting case have to do with abuse?

A: Not necessarily abuse as lack of proper input at moments of high susceptibility. Also, in some individuals the sequence of imprint slots is different or not synchronous with the pattern of the majority. In a sense, then, this is genetic though all such individuals do not necessarily develop as homosexuals.

Q: (L) I think that the writer wanted to know is this a condition that can be changed, assuming the individual wanted to change?

A: Not usually.

Q: (Ailén) When you talk about a lack of proper input, I assume then that in some way development is not normal. Does that mean that homosexuals have any impediment to spiritual growth?

A: No, that is not implied.

Q: (L) Well, you know the story of Konrad Lorenz and his ducks. The story is that there is this window of time when the substratum of the duck's psychology is open to receiving the imprint of the mother image. So, these ducks were not exposed to a mother duck, but rather to his boots during that window. They came to see his boots as mother. Forever. These ducks believed that boots were "mother". So what it means is that there are these like… circuit boards… in us where there is a window that opens when they can be written on. Whatever is written on them in that moment is what sets that circuit. It's like a really basic circuit in our makeup. And I think what this means is that these individuals may have either hyper-sensitive circuits, or windows when circuits can be written that were different that other people. Maybe their windows don't open at the same time as the majority of people.

Say for example the majority of people in the first week, they get their mother imprint - probably. Babies that don't get a mother imprint because they are given up for adoption, or there is some kind of extenuating circumstance, they always have this lack because nothing was written in. If they are put in a crib and never nurtured, they never got this imprint. Then the window closes, and whatever was written on that circuit board during that period when the window was open is what is there forever. Okay, so maybe some people's windows open too early, or maybe it opens while they're still really tiny in the hospital and they don't get the imprint of the mother. Or maybe it opens and closes very fast because of their sensitivity. Maybe they get imprinted by the look of the doctor with a mask on his face, or a nurse passing by or a Coke machine.

(Perceval) Maybe whatever the stage is for the imprint of sexuality, maybe it's later and for most people it's at a certain age, but there are some people that for genetic reasons it's earlier or later and so the adults around that person act differently than they would have when the child was younger.

(L) Yes. And when we're talking about something like imprints, you have to take a very specific individual, and then you have to say, "Okay, does this person have..." and then you'd have to ask all these yes/no questions to boil it down. It could be as varied as the number of individuals that exist! And the same for homosexuals. Every one is different. It could be a partial past life cause, there could be a partial imprint vulnerability cause, or even as they said in rare cases a genetic cause.

(Perceval) I wonder what the imprint actually is. What is the actual imprint data? Is it interaction, or words, or treatment by another human being?

(L) Well, let's ask. In a general sense, what is the imprint that determines sexuality for an individual?

A: The pleasant interaction with an adult model at a moment or during the time the imprint window is open in conjunction with the release of specific hormones and brain chemicals.

Q: (Perceval) So you've got a kid, a boy, and if the window is open, then they get more female attention from their mother. But if the window opens later, when the father takes more interest in the boy and starts to treat him "like a man"... like fathers will sometimes chide their sons about things like, "You cry like a little girl" or "Don't be such a little girl", "You gonna wear a dress?", etc. If you had the window open then during that period, and you received that kind of treatment...

(L) In other words, a delayed imprint window.

(Perceval) Yeah, and producing chemicals and being treated that way or laughed at or made fun of, and being made to think that you're a little girl...

(Burma Jones) Though they did say a "pleasant" interaction with adult models.

(Perceval) That's the ideal.

(Belibaste) Usually at what age does this window open?

A: 18 months to 2.5 years.

Q: (Burma Jones) That's a big window.

(L) Yeah, well that's not the whole window, but the range.

(Ark) What I don't understand is why sexuality is not hard wired, and for what reason? It could have been wired like number of legs and then there would be no problem. Everybody this way with two legs and everybody is born heterosexual except with radiation, mutations, blah blah blah. There must be a reason for that, but what is this reason? Why is there this possibility of people being changed in this way that leads to suffering? Or maybe I don't know anything about internal structure.

(Burma Jones) Well, I was wondering if that imprint comes in with an adult model, does that also set the sort of person that you're going to look for to mate with?

A: Yes

Q: (Burma Jones) So maybe it's also to make it so that you will look for a mate within your own "group"? Like setting up the parents early on in life.

A: Control system modification.

Q: (Perceval) It's probably like you were saying, a pleasant interaction with an adult model. So, if it's later than 18 months to 2.5 years...

(L) So if you have an unpleasant interaction, it can really mess you up.

(PoB) Does it mean that somebody can make another person homosexual by specific kind of treatment?

A: Yes.

Q: (Burma Jones) Well, it sounds like if you knew when someone's imprint vulnerability was, and you abducted them and put them with someone that you wanted to pair them with, you could set up the whole imprint for them.

(L) Yeah, you could.

(Perceval) The problem is that the normal window is 18 months to 2.5 years, and then there are people who have delayed windows.

(L) And maybe people who have early windows. So, it's like Sidney Baker talks about our individual physiology in terms of health and how completely individual we are. There are certain patterns for the majority, but still there are ranges. So everybody is really completely individual and different.

(Andromeda) Are they talking here about having a role model of the same sex, or the opposite sex?

A: Opposite generally.

Q: (L) So if you have a pleasant experience with a member of the opposite sex during this moment of imprint, that will set you up to be attracted to members of the opposite sex.

(Perceval) It kind of suggests that a normal person in a normal family with both a mother and father, that baby or small child is going to have interaction with both...

A: It should be noted that the infant is sensitive to pheromone type substances that can trigger the imprint window. That part of the process is "hard wired".

Q: (Perceval) So for girls and boys they're hardwired to be attracted to male or female.

(L) So say a female infant is hardwired to be triggered by the presence of the pheromone of a male, and the interaction is pleasant, then what is supposed to get written to the circuit gets written, and everything is fine. If the pheromone opens the window and what happens in the interaction is extremely unpleasant, then everything gets screwed up. And possibly it could be that if there is some genetic difference in the infant, then maybe they are set up so that the pheromones of a female will open the window. So, there are a number of possibilities here. It's obviously an interactive thing that triggers it, writes the circuit, and whatever.

(Ailén) So the way that some homosexuals are overidentified with being gay, like gay bars and that stuff, that has to be just cultural then...?

A: The gay "movement" is a CIA program incepted by 4D STS designed to set up antipathy, differences, and to identify individuals for purposes of inflicting further suffering.

Q: (L) Huh.

A: It is the soul that counts.
 
And perhaps, just perhaps, the wise homosexual/gay/queer/whatever, will consider this and consider the wider implications for their own survival. Perhaps it is a good thing that there is aversion? Perhaps it is a good thing that there is only a very small minority of "born" homosexuals? Perhaps Nature limits such manifestations for a REASON? And perhaps we ought to figure it out and apply the lesson in advance.

Thank you for one of the most thought provoking discussions I have read here. As a gay man struggling to climb the staircase to reach the second threshold and trying to understand myself, Laura's words above bring up some deep questions for me to ponder. One of these questions is about higher aims in relation to physicality which luc touches upon here:
At the end of the day, calling something "natural" or "unnatural" cannot be a moral argument, it can only be descriptive. It's the natural, biological, "mechanical" state of affairs. Humans have the ability to go against it - both downhill and uphill. You can engage in all kinds of "unnatural" perversions that go far beyond anything natural. But you can also engage in the most noble acts unheard of in the biological world.
It just occurs to me: maybe another reason for this confusion about what's natural and not is that there are two main senses in which this can be understood:

1) Descriptive of biology, as I used the term in this post.
2) An expression of natural law, i.e. the Cosmic Order.

If something is unnatural in sense 1), it doesn't follow that it's unnatural in sense 2). For example, the fact that not having children is unnatural biologically doesn't mean it's "against the Cosmic Order". Something similar applies to homosexual expression of sex.

On the other hand, considering all we know about spiritual progression, STO/STS and so on, I'd argue taking pleasure in and seeking out group sex etc. IS against the Cosmic Order/natural law. It's orienting yourself downwards towards worship of physicality.

So maybe this distinction is helpful when talking about such things.
Thinking more from an esoteric perspective, I am struggling to put in words this thought. If one can't be part of a male/female polar couple, then based upon the results of the PK experiments does that imply the need for a conscious decision to be made regarding refraining from same sex bonding relationships to avoid obtaining the opposite results from what is positively intended due to what appears to be a natural, as in Cosmic law concerning the interaction of polarities (male/female)?

You can't stop being gay, but you can sure work on trying to figure out why and learning everything you can get hold of about anything that might even remotely relate to it so that you can also figure out how to optimize spiritual growth.

Thank you Laura for summing up how I feel while I am trying to understand my current life situation from a higher perspective and the lessons to learn on this journey.
 
I had the same impression as Luc, more or less. But I also think I understand, Phoenix, that at least you try to come out of your "bubble". Without trying to "psychoanalyze you", I think it is a pretty fair observation to say that you do tend (like in the past) to defend yourself a bit too much, while managing to portray others (other homosexuals, but often Cyre) in a worse light. Maybe that's never your intention, but it IS how you come across quite often.

It's not my intention, no, but you're probably right. I'm not certain why I tend to do this, to be honest, only that I'm constantly plagued by thoughts and feelings of being "not good enough" and inadequate (I don't think that totally has to do with my sexuality, either, but more with my unusual upbringing). I get defensive like that with my grandmother, too, only to later realize that she was right about me in her criticism all along, or at least partially correct. Laura reminds me of her in certain ways, so when she, specifically, fries my butt it provokes a similar reaction at times. :-/

Maybe it's a way of trying to convince myself that I'm doing my best when perhaps I'm really not? And then when it's pointed out to me that I'm not doing enough, I feel inadequate and rush to point out all the things I have done (even though intellectually I understand that the more is done the more is demanded). There's this feeling that everyone is expecting so much of me and that I'm constantly falling short of those expectations, or that perhaps I'm not actually capable of carrying the burdens that are expected of me, let alone rid myself of every program.

I think another part of this is also that, although I do understand why couples are treated as "a unit" in the Work, Cyre and I are vastly different people in many, many ways - we're still individuals, at the end of the day, even if we've chosen to live our lives as partners. Sometimes it feels like I get lumped together with the "LGBT community" by association with his former immersion in that lifestyle, and I have this instant reaction to immediately separate and distinguish myself from that because it simply wasn't my experience, but also because I know how tempting that lifestyle is and how easily I could've fallen into it. I can see how that comes off now, though....

Self-centeredness much? I'm sure you understand by now that that is not what anybody wanted.

I do understand, yes. I said that in my initial post because that was how I was honestly feeling, although I understood even at the time I wrote it that my emotional center was running off the rails a bit and that the feeling was totally irrational. Figured it was best to express it rather than to shove it aside back into the dark, so I left that statement in there. I think it may also be rooted in how I felt after the events that transpired regarding Cyre and I and our standing here overall. I'm not feeling very confident, to be honest, and it almost feels like I'm reintroducing myself here or something... it's odd.

I hope you don't take this badly. I understand that it took a lot to write what you did, and appreciate your perspective. But part of the issue we were discussing was this "exclusivity, "spechulness", and victim mentality. I think it affects a lot of people across the board, gay or not, and whether you are part of the "active boisterous minority" or not. It is, IMO, one of the best tools used by hyperdimensional beings to manipulate people. We ought to remember that freedom (to the extent that it can be gained in this reality) is INSIDE us, in who we are as people, the choices we make and what we give to others genuinely.

I certainly don't want to walk around feeling like a victim all the time, or expecting others to treat me special. It's been a long process stripping that victim mentality away. I'm still working on it, I guess. I've been questioning, overall, where a "gay man" really stands in the Work and I have moments when it starts to feel like we're at a severe disadvantage.

Thank you for taking the time to read what I wrote and for your feedback. I really do appreciate it. I've been trying to approach the discussion this way (although not very successfully, perhaps): That even if I disagree with a certain mirror/feedback, how I disagree/react is what's important to pay attention to - that regardless if I agree or disagree, I should approach the feedback with the perspective that what's being said to me could possibly be true even if I don't like it, and that if I disregard it completely I may miss out on learning something new about myself; whereas if I at least consider it, there's no harm done, necessarily, because it can always be rejected after consideration. The emotional reactions are what prevent feedback from being considered at all, therefore every opportunity gets missed to actually find the root of the reaction.
 
Of course the whys and hows of homosexuality and sex in general regarding spiritual growth are much more interesting, but with the intention of being open with the network I'll briefly share my personal experience regarding this matter.

I learned that I was considered "homophobic" (in SJW speak) when I moved to the state's capital some twenty years ago, where lgbt culture was firmly established. There it became clear that I was expected to see homosexuality as commendable and coming out of the closet as an achievement worthy of applause, while in my view homosexuality was, at the very least, not something to be proud of.

When reassessing my thoughts on the matter, being raised in a Christian environment seemed a reasonable explanation to my unfavorable bias, as I have older relatives that strictly maintain a "I want nothing to do with these people" attitude.

Please note that as far as I know I have never mistreated anyone for being gay, even when a young man at a bus stop kept indecorously insisting that I should join him at an orgy that was about to take place ( :umm: ). On the contrary, I had good relations with gay colleagues at work, except for one that was insufferable, but that had nothing to do with him being gay.

Nevertheless, intending to not be unconsciously subject to my programming I made efforts to check my emotional reactions, even if minor, and some remarks by the Cs helped me see homosexuality as just another aspect of human life.

At one point I even made an exercise of considering whether my so-called "homophobia" was a sign that I was gay and didn't know it. Nope, it was impossible to deny my strong aversion to the idea of sexual contact with another man.

Pragmatically, on the one hand I oppose anything related to the lgbtxyz agenda while on the other I try to help my older relatives deal with homosexuals in their environment by softening their anguished view of them as "abominations" (their word), particularly since a male cousin showed up with a boyfriend.

Curiously aligned with this discussion, taking my grandfather as an example, although he is a devout Christian from simple origins, his main contention against gays is not related to anything "of the devil", but the abnormality of sodomy. To him that is simply a wrong and unnatural use of these organs, not what they were made for. He is clearly disgusted by the mere thought of it.

I'm comforted by the fact that everyone here, regardless of sexual preference, seems to agree that the lgbtxyz propaganda and shenanigans are terrible, divisive and benefits no one, it may not be a germ but it is an infestation of dire proportions.
 
Just some quotes that caught my attention that are great reminders of the purpose and scope of all this work.

As a related aside, the general idea of the Cs teaching etc. is that we are all meant to be in the process of pursuing the goal of making ourselves into some kind of 'conduits' for a certain type of 'energy' that will play an important role in the not-too-distant future. That process seems to, in general, involve removing to the greatest extent possible, our immersion in materialism and self-centeredness. Just thought I'd mention that as a philosophical context into which to place all of this.

I think that the greatest challenge for about everyone is to ACCEPT WHAT IS, not only about the world, but about oneself.
...
So the first order of business is for people to just freaking accept who and what they are right down to the mechanics of the genetic body, and learn what is necessary to deal with that.

How can you live life as a gay/homosexual/queer/whatever person in the BEST way imaginable? How can you make your life count not only for yourself, your personal growth, but for others and most significantly, for the Universe itself?

The objective is this: at the end of life, when you are released from the "bonds that hold you fast", you can stand in judgment of yourself without shame at time or energy wasted. The only thing you can take out of this life is the love and care and efforts that you GIVE AWAY.

You can't stop being gay, but you can sure work on trying to figure out why and learning everything you can get hold of about anything that might even remotely relate to it so that you can also figure out how to optimize spiritual growth.
 
If you are born - or become - somehow "out of the majority natural order of things", it seems to me that it should drive you to figure out and understand why instead of trying to create what really amount to excuses or ridiculous justifications.

Regarding the "unnatural" or "out of the majority natural order of things", there's this tidbit from "Heaven and Earth Unveiled", based on channelled material:

Charles Fryers deceased father said:
We have also groups who are assigned to influencing the general operations of men and nations, and who help invisibly in the working of what you call nature. Those engaged in this work need to be combative, for there are evil influences to be withstood, and there are battles of will before a particular assignment is successfully carried out.

So yes, we are meddled with on all levels it seems, so we shouldn't rule out the possibility that homosexuality was specifically created to mess with those affected and with society/culture at large. If we go with "by their fruits ye shall know them", then no doubt the existence of homosexuality has produced untold suffering and hysteria for everyone...
 
There is the possibility that the nature of the "gay germ" might be to affect children at the imprinting stage in their development, not affecting adults. It could be something passed from parent to children, for example. I had also considered the possibility that the germ wasn't necessarily created to 'turn people gay' but that this may simply be a side effect of its biological effect on the body. This is just speculation, of course, but it would make adult exposure to homosexual acts (ie. prison) irrelevant.

Technically it isn't impossible. But it's interesting in and of itself that the model organism used as a basis to speculate about gay pathogens (Toxoplasmosis) affects mice of all ages, instead of those in certain developmental windows, and does so. And that broad age spectrum would actually make sense if you are a pathogen trying to encourage your spread and increase the entropic behavior of the host population. That technology does exist in the microbial ecosystem / designer toolkit, and a designer would have access to this. Why not? Are the ones who created the gay germ STO?

In my own opinion and experience, there's a good chance that the causes are more likely to be psychological/imprinting events or possibly spiritual reasons like some atypical interfacing of the spirit with the genetic body due to karma or past life experiences. Since these are things we already know about, I think using a germ to explain things is unnecessary, unless or until they actually isolate something causally. Until then I might as well invoke an infectious germ to explain why some people enjoy reading, gambling, or fly fishing.

It kind of boggles my mind that these issues are hanging fire and gays aren't even concerned about them, apparently; or few of them, at any rate.

If you are born - or become - somehow "out of the majority natural order of things", it seems to me that it should drive you to figure out and understand why instead of trying to create what really amount to excuses or ridiculous justifications.

It took me 65 years to find out about the mutation I carry and all during those years, most of my life, I was searching for the reason and experimenting with anything and everything that came to hand that might give me some relief. And of course, a whole lot of that searching resulted in thousands of pages of material made available to all others, some of it very helpful to many people.

We aren't talking about exactly the same thing here, because, as it happens, I can deal with the mutation with certain dietary practices and application of selected therapies. It's not a perfect solution, but it works well enough to keep me up and running.

But if I was gay, like really hard core "no other way", I would sure want to know why and what effect it might have on my spiritual development because I damn sure wouldn't want to do such a life over again. And that means I'd be seriously picky about what ideas I adopted as explanations. Geeze, if you've been messed with from the get-go, wouldn't you think that the General Law and its operatives have a vested interest in keeping you in 3D?

You can't stop being gay, but you can sure work on trying to figure out why and learning everything you can get hold of about anything that might even remotely relate to it so that you can also figure out how to optimize spiritual growth.

It's a topic that interests me for sure, and I'm open to other people offering explanations as to the causes. I've often wondered about if some day you could take a pill that could make you straight, or at least attracted to the opposite sex. It's also kind of odd because I'm not sure what I would do with myself if I became straight. In theory nothing would change, and I've always saw homosexuality as just incidental to who I am as a person, at least on a theoretical level. I never saw it as something to be proud of, since we don't do anything to earn our orientation. But on some level I think the words don't fit the picture. I live in a pretty accepting part of the world, and most of my friends here are gay as well. In spite of this I've always hated the exhibitionism of pride parades and gay culture in general. It's the kind of pageantry that makes sense going on inside a gay safe space as a haven inside a more heteronormative culture; but when it leaks out into within ear or eyeshot of the straights I just cringe. Even when watching a movie with close straight friends or family I become physically anxious when I see gay romantic or sexual content. But still in some friend circles there is definitely a more casual attitude toward promiscuity, open relationships, and other non-traditional forms of relations. And although a lot of this isn't unique to gay culture it is definitely more prevalent there.

I guess where I'm going with some of the above is that although I can disassociate myself and see myself as a spirit in a body, there are some hard facts about my experience as a gay person that do color things. I agree with @Joe that a lot have been brainwashed by the CIA and psy-ops, but I also think it's important to acknowledge that some have been genuinely victimized for their sexuality, and acknowledging that objectively doesn't mean they're indulging in it or using that fact as a crutch. For myself I converted to Christianity when I was 12 years old, and fell in love with the faith. I found out I was gay maybe six months later, which devastated me because it felt like I was viscerally betrayed by my God and by the universe at large. I thought i was going to Hell, and while I tried to just repress myself sexually that's very hard to do as a boy just hitting puberty. So I eventually had to become a materialistic atheist -- purely for mental health reasons. I couldn't function otherwise. In FOTCM terms, it felt like I was born a psychopath, except for the fact that I knew that I was a psychopath and that it was a terrible thing to be and there's nothing I could do about it but accept the fact that I'm going to spend my whole life hurting others and my whole afterlife reaping the suffering for same. So yeah, discussions about homosexuality from a cosmic perspective bring up a lot of religious trauma, although less so than in the past. In late high school I received a death threat from a neonazi twerp who proceeded to gaslight me in like ways for my last year there because I was gay. I was also, due to a social learning disability, outed by people who I thought were friends of mine as a practical joke by luring me into some very vulnerable conversations. A snowball with a rock in it basically. I know others have suffered worse, who aren't even gay themselves. But there was a long period where, for over a year I thought my life was literally in danger because of a person.

I suppose someone in a different culture, say Yazidi, could feel heavily persecuted by Salafists in some part of the world. Perhaps in ways similar to my own experiences. They would then develop associations around that and so get upset if some Muslim scholar talks about the errancy behind some Yazidi myths and accounts; this act could on some emotional level validate the invalidation and disrespect and bullying they received. Maybe on the surface a passerby (maybe a Kurd?) could say the Yazidi needs to get over himself or whatever, and depending on the specifics that may sometimes be the case, but I think it's better not to assume you know someone's story, or that they're just swallowing lies about themselves or the Salafists which bear no relationship to their actual life experiences. Anyway.....
 
Thinking more from an esoteric perspective, I am struggling to put in words this thought. If one can't be part of a male/female polar couple, then based upon the results of the PK experiments does that imply the need for a conscious decision to be made regarding refraining from same sex bonding relationships to avoid obtaining the opposite results from what is positively intended due to what appears to be a natural, as in Cosmic law concerning the interaction of polarities (male/female)?

I don't think there's a rule book for these things. We don't have a creed here that says "though shall not sleep with another from your own sex", this would silly. Nobody will burn in hell for such things. Perhaps you could see it more as a journey of discovery? What do you think would be best for your personal spiritual growth in your current phase? What does experience tell you? What does introspection/prayer tell you? Fwiw
 
Reading and studying some of the reactions that this thread has generated, I went about searching for Castenada’s Predator Mind and found below exact from the book, “The Active Side of Infinity”. It was quite refreshing to read it again even though I have read the book a few times. Its a bit long but I have bolded the parts which would apply here.
Focus on what Don Juan is saying and how Carlos Castenada is reacting.
Don Juan said,
"This is the appropriate time of day for doing what I am asking you to do. It takes a moment to engage the necessary attention to do it. Don't stop until you catch that fleeting black shadow."
I did see some strange fleeting black shadow projected on the foliage of the trees. It was either a shadow going back and forth or various fleeting shadows moving side-to-side or straight up in the air.
They looked like a fat black fish to me, enormous fish. It was as if gigantic swordfish were flying in the air. I was engrossed in the sight. Then, finally, it scared me. It became to dark to see the foliage, yet I could still see the fleeting black shadows.
"What is it, don Juan?" I asked.
"Long ago, the native sorcerer/shamans of Mexico discovered that we have a companion for life," he said, as clearly as he could.
"We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos, and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile; helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don't do so."
It was very dark around us, and that seemed to curtail any expression on my part. If it had been daylight, I would have laughed my head off. In the dark, I felt quite inhibited.
"It's pitch black around us," don Juan said, "but if you look out of the corner of your eye, you will still see fleeting shadows jumping all around you."
He was right. I could still see them.
Their movement made me dizzy. Don Juan turned on the light, and that seemed to dissipate everything. Don Juan said,
"You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico."
"Why has this predator taken over in the fashion that you're describing, don Juan?" I asked. "There must be a logical explanation."
"There is an explanation," don Juan replied, "which is the simplest explanation in the world. They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, gallineros, the predators rear us in human coops, humaneros. Therefore, their food is always available to them."
I felt that my head was shaking violently from side to side. I could not express my profound sense of unease and discontentment, but my body moved to bring it to the surface. I shook from head to toe without any volition on my part. I heard myself saying,
"No, no, no, no. This is absurd, don Juan. What you're saying is something monstrous. It simply can't be true, for sorcerers, or for average men, or for anyone."
"Why not?" don Juan asked calmly. "Why not? Because it infuriates you?""Yes, it infuriates me," I retorted. "Those claims are monstrous!"
"Well," he said, "you haven't heard all the claims yet. Wait a bit longer and see how you feel."
"I'm going to subject you to a blitz. That is, I'm going to subject your mind to tremendous onslaughts; and you cannot get up and leave because you're caught. Not because I'm holding you prisoner, but because something in you will prevent you from leaving while another part of you is going to go truthfully berserk. So brace yourself!"
There was something in me which I felt was a 'glutton for punishment'. He was right. I wouldn't have left the house for the world; and yet I didn't like one bit the inanities he was spouting.
Don Juan said,
"I want to appeal to your analytical mind. Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer, and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs; or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior.
Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs; our ideas of good and evil; our social mores. The predators are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations, and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed, and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal."
"But how can they do this, don Juan?" I asked, somehow angered further by what he was saying. "Do they whisper all that in our ears while we are asleep?"
"No, they don't do it that way. That's idiotic!" don Juan said, smiling. "They are infinitely more efficient and organized than that. In order to keep us obedient, meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist; a horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, and filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
"I know that even though you have never suffered hunger," he went on, "you have food anxiety which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver is going to be uncovered, and its food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which after all is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. The predators ensure in this manner a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear."
"It's not that I can't accept all this at face value, don Juan," I said. "I could, but there's something so odious about it that it actually repels me. It forces me to take a contradictory stand. "If it's true that they eat us, how do they do it?"
Don Juan had a broad smile on his face. He was as pleased as punch. He explained that sorcerers see infant human beings as strange, luminous balls of energy covered from the top to the bottom with a glowing coat, something like a plastic cover that is adjusted tightly over their cocoon of energy.
He said that that glowing coat of awareness was what the predators consumed, and that when a human being reached adulthood, all that was left of that glowing coat of awareness was a narrow fringe that went from the ground to the top of the toes. That fringe permitted mankind to continue living, but only barely.
As if I were in a dream, I heard don Juan explaining that, to his knowledge, man was the only species that had the glowing coat of awareness outside that luminous cocoon.
Therefore, he became easy prey for an awareness of a different order; such as the heavy awareness of the predator. He then made the most damaging statement he had made so far. He said that this narrow fringe of awareness was the epicenter of self-reflection where man was irremediably caught. By playing on our self-reflection, which is the only point of awareness left to us, the predators create flares of awareness that they proceed to consume in a ruthless, predatory fashion.
They give us inane problems that force those flares of awareness to rise, and in this manner they keep us alive in order for them to be fed with the energetic flare of our pseudo-concerns. There must have been something in what don Juan was saying which was so devastating to me that at that point I actually got sick to my stomach. After a moment's pause long enough for me to recover, I asked don Juan,
"But why is it that the sorcerers of ancient Mexico and all sorcerers today, although they see the predators, don't do anything about it?"
"There's nothing that you and I can do about it," don Juan said in a grave, sad voice. "All we can do is discipline ourselves to the point where they will not touch us.
"How can you ask your fellow men to go through those rigors of discipline? They'll laugh and make fun of you; and the more aggressive ones will beat the shit out of you... and not so much because they don't believe it. Down in the depths of every human being, there is an ancestral, visceral knowledge about the predators' existence."
My analytical mind swung back and forth like a yo-yo. It left me and came back, and left me and came back again. Whatever don Juan was proposing was preposterous, incredible. At the same time, it was a most reasonable thing; so simple. It explained every kind of human contradiction I could think of.
But how could one have taken all this seriously? Don Juan was pushing me into the path of an avalanche that would take me down forever. I felt another wave of a threatening sensation. The wave didn't stem from me, yet it was attached to me. Don Juan was doing something to me, mysteriously positive and terribly negative at the same time. I sensed it as an attempt to cut a thin film that seemed to be glued to me.
His eyes were fixed on mine in an unblinking stare. He moved his eyes away, and began to talk without looking at me anymore.
"Whenever doubts plague you to a dangerous point," he said, "do something pragmatic about it. Turn off the light. Pierce the darkness; find out what you can see."
He got up to turn off the lights.
I stopped him.
"No, no, don Juan," I said, "don't turn off the lights. I'm doing okay."
What I felt then was a most unusual, for me, fear of the darkness. The mere thought of it made me pant.
I definitely knew something viscerally, but I wouldn't dare touch it, or bring it to the surface, not in a million years!
"You saw the fleeting shadows against the trees," don Juan said, sitting back against his chair.
"That's pretty good. I'd like you to see them inside this room. You're not seeing anything. You're just merely catching fleeting images. You have enough energy for that."
I feared that don Juan would get up anyway and turn off the lights, which he did. Two seconds later, I was screaming my head off. Not only did I catch a glimpse of those fleeting images, I heard them buzzing by my ears.
Don Juan doubled up with laughter as he turned on the lights.
"What a temperamental fellow!" he said. "A total disbeliever, on the one hand; and a total pragmatist on the other. You must arrange this internal fight, otherwise you're going to swell up like a big toad and burst."
Don Juan kept on pushing his barb deeper and deeper into me.
"The sorcerers of ancient Mexico," he said, "saw the predator. They called it the flyer because it leaps through the air. It is not a pretty sight. It is a big shadow, impenetrably dark, a black shadow that jumps through the air. Then, it lands flat on the ground."
"The sorcerers of ancient Mexico were quite ill at ease with the idea of when it made its appearance on Earth. They reasoned that man must have been a complete being at one point, with stupendous insights and feats of awareness that are mythological legends nowadays. And then everything seems to disappear, and we have now a sedated man."
I wanted to get angry and call him a paranoiac, but somehow the righteousness that was usually just underneath the surface of my being wasn't there. Something in me was beyond the point of asking myself my favorite question: What if all that he said is true? At the moment he was talking to me that night, in my heart of hearts, I felt that all of what he was saying was true, but at the same time and with equal force, I felt that all that he was saying was absurdity itself.
"What are you saying, don Juan?" I asked feebly. My throat was constricted. I could hardly breathe. "What I'm saying is that what we have against us is not a simple predator. It is very smart and organized. It follows a methodical system to render us useless. Man, the magical being that he is destined to be, is no longer magical. He's an average piece of meat.
There are no more dreams for man but the dreams of an animal who is being raised to become a piece of meat: trite, conventional, imbecilic."
Don Juan's words were eliciting a strange, bodily reaction in me comparable to the sensation of nausea. It was as if I were going to get sick to my stomach again. But the nausea was coming from the bottom of my being, from the marrow of my bones. I convulsed involuntarily. Don Juan shook me by the shoulders forcefully. I felt my neck wobbling back and forth under the impact of his grip. The maneuver calmed me down at once.
I felt more in control.
"This predator," don Juan said, "which, of course, is an inorganic being, is not altogether invisible to us as other inorganic beings are. I think as children we do see it, but we decide it's so horrific that we don't want to think about it. Children, of course, could insist on focusing on the sight, but everybody else around them dissuades them from doing so.
The only alternative left for mankind is discipline. Discipline is the only deterrent. But by discipline I don't mean harsh routines. I don't mean waking up every morning at five-thirty and throwing cold water on yourself until you're blue. Sorcerers understand discipline as the capacity to face with serenity odds that are not included in our expectations.
For sorcerers, discipline is an art; the art of facing infinity without flinching; not because they are strong and tough, but because they are filled with awe."
"In what way would the sorcerers' discipline be a deterrent to the flyers?" I asked.
Don Juan scrutinized my face as if to discover any signs of my disbelief.
He said,
"Sorcerers say that discipline makes the glowing coat of awareness unpalatable to the flyer.
The result is that the predators become bewildered. An inedible glowing coat of awareness is not part of their cognition, I suppose. After being bewildered, they don't have any recourse other than refraining from continuing their nefarious task. If the predators don't eat our glowing coat of awareness for a while, it will keep on growing.
"Simplifying this matter to the extreme, I can say that sorcerers, by means of their discipline, push the predators away long enough to allow their glowing coat of awareness to grow beyond the level of the toes. Once it goes beyond the level of the toes, it grows back to its natural size.
The sorcerers of ancient Mexico used to say that the glowing coat of awareness is like a tree. If it is not pruned, it grows to its natural size and volume. As awareness reaches levels higher than the toes, tremendous maneuvers of perception become a matter of course.
"The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline. Sorcerers found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, and give any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin.
The [alien mind control of these creatures] comes back, I assure you, but not as strong; and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine until one day it flees permanently.
"That's the day when you have to rely on your own devices which are nearly zero. A sad day indeed! There's no one to tell you what to do. There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to. My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples that this was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life for the real mind that belongs to us. The sum total of our experience after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty.
Personally, I would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely preparation."
I became genuinely agitated. I wanted to know more, and yet a strange feeling in me clamored for me to stop. It alluded to dark results and punishment, something like the wrath of God descending on me for tampering with something veiled by God himself.
I made a supreme effort to allow my curiosity to win. I heard myself say,
"What-what-what do you mean, by taxing the flyers' mind?"
"Discipline taxes the foreign mind no end," he replied. "So, through their discipline, sorcerers vanquish the foreign installation."
I was overwhelmed by his statements. I believed that don Juan was either certifiably insane or that he was telling me something so awesome that it froze everything in me. I noticed, however how quickly I rallied my energy to deny everything he had said.
After an instant of panic, I began to laugh, as if don Juan had told me a joke. I even heard myself saying,
"Don Juan, don Juan, you're incorrigible!"
Don Juan seemed to understand everything I was experiencing. He shook his head from side to side, and raised his eyes to the heavens in a gesture of mock despair.
He said,
"I am so incorrigible, that I am going to give the flyers' mind which you carry inside you one more jolt. I am going to reveal to you one of the most extraordinary secrets of sorcery. I am going to describe to you a finding that took sorcerers thousands of years to verify and consolidate."
He looked at me, smiled maliciously, and said,
"The flyers' mind flees forever when a sorcerer succeeds in grabbing on to the vibrating force that holds us together as a conglomerate of energy fields. If a sorcerer maintains that pressure long enough, the flyers' mind flees in defeat. And that's exactly what you are going to do; hold on to the energy that binds you together."
I had the most inexplicable reaction I could have imagined. Something in me actually shook, as if it had received a jolt. I entered into a state of unwarranted fear, which I immediately associated with my religious background. Don Juan looked at me from head to toe.
"You are fearing the wrath of God, aren't you?" he said. "Rest assured, that's not your fear. It's the flyers' fear, because it knows that you will do exactly as I'm telling you."
His words did not calm me at all. I felt worse.
I was actually convulsing involuntarily, and I had no means to stop it.
"Don't worry," don Juan said calmly. "I know for a fact that those attacks wear off very quickly. The flyer's mind has no concentration whatsoever."
After a moment, everything stopped as don Juan had predicted.
To say again that I was bewildered is a euphemism. This was the first time in my life ever, with don Juan or alone, that I didn't know whether I was coming or going. I wanted to get out of the chair and walk around, but I was deathly afraid. I was filled with rational assertions, and at the same time I was filled with an infantile fear.
I began to breathe deeply as a cold perspiration covered my entire body. I had somehow unleashed on myself a most godawful sight: black, fleeting shadows jumping all around me wherever I turned.
I closed my eyes and rested my head on the arm of the stuffed chair.
"I don't know which way to turn, don Juan," I said."Tonight, you have really succeeded in getting me lost." Don Juan said, "You're being torn by an internal struggle. Down in the depths of you, you know that you are incapable of refusing the agreement that an indispensable part of you, your glowing coat of awareness, is going to serve as an incomprehensible source of nourishment to, naturally, incomprehensible entities.
"And another part of you will stand against this situation with all its might. The sorcerers' revolution is that they refuse to honor agreements in which they did not participate. Nobody ever asked me if I would consent to being eaten by beings of a different kind of awareness.
My parents just brought me into this world to be food, like themselves, and that's the end of the story."
Don Juan stood up from his chair and stretched his arms and legs.
"We have been sitting here for hours. It's time to go into the house. I'm going to eat. Do you want to eat with me?"
I declined. My stomach was in an uproar.
"I think you'd better go to sleep," he said. "The blitz has devastated you."
I didn't need any further coaxing. I collapsed onto my bed, and fell asleep like the dead. When I arrived home, as time went by, the idea of the flyers became one of the main fixations of my life. I got to the point where I felt that don Juan was absolutely right about them. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't discard his logic.
The more I thought about it, and the more I talked to and observed myself, and my fellow men, the more intense the conviction that something was rendering us incapable of any activity or any interaction or any thought that didn't have the self as its focal point. My concern, as well as the concern of everyone I knew or talked to, was the self. Since I couldn't find any explanation for such universal homogeneity, I believed that don Juan's line of thought was the most appropriate way of elucidating the phenomenon.
I went as deeply as I could into readings about myths and legends. In reading, I experienced something I had never felt before: Each of the books I read was an interpretation of myths and legends. In each one of those books, a homogeneous mind was palpable.
The styles differed, but the drive behind the words was homogeneously the same: Even though the theme was something as abstract as myths and legends, the authors always managed to insert statements about themselves. The homogeneous drive behind every one of those books was not the stated theme of the book. Instead, it was self-service. I had never felt this before. I attributed my reaction to don Juan's influence. The unavoidable question that I posed to myself was: Is he influencing me to see this, or is there really a foreign mind dictating everything we do?
I lapsed, perforce, into denial again, and I went insanely from denial to acceptance to denial.
Something in me knew that whatever don Juan was driving at was an energetic fact; but something equally important in me knew that all of that was guff. The end result of my internal struggle was a sense of foreboding; the sense of something imminently dangerous coming at me. I made extensive anthropological inquiries into the subject of the flyers in other cultures, but I couldn't find any references to them anywhere. Don Juan seemed to be the only source of information about this matter. The next time I saw him, I instantly jumped to talk about the flyers.
I said,
"I have tried my best to be rational about this subject matter, but I can't. There are moments when I fully agree with you about the predators."
"Focus your attention on the fleeting shadows that you actually see," don Juan said with a smile.
I told don Juan that those fleeting shadows were going to be the end of my rational life. I saw them everywhere. Since I had left his house, I was incapable of going to sleep in the dark. To sleep with the lights on did not bother me at all. The moment I turned the lights off, however, everything around me began to jump. I never saw complete figures or shapes. All I saw were fleeting black shadows.
"The flyers' mind has not left you," don Juan said. "It has been seriously injured. It's trying its best to rearrange its relationship with you. But something in you is severed forever. The flyer knows that. The real danger is that the flyers' mind may win by getting you tired and forcing you to quit by playing the contradiction between what it says and what I say.
"You see, the flyers' mind has no competitors.
When it proposes something, it agrees with its own proposition, and it makes you believe that you've done something of worth. The flyers' mind will say to you that whatever Juan Matus is telling you is pure nonsense, and then the same mind will agree with its own proposition, 'Yes, of course, it is nonsense,' you will say. That's the way they overcome us.
"The flyers are an essential part of the universe, and they must be taken as what they really are; awesome, monstrous. They are the means by which the universe tests us. We are energetic probes created by the universe," he continued as if he were oblivious to my presence, "and it's because we are possessors of energy that has awareness that we are the means by which the universe becomes aware of itself.
"The flyers are the implacable challengers. They cannot be taken as anything else. If we succeed in doing that, the universe allows us to continue."
 
It's multi-factorial. Germ therory doesn't exclude the factors you mentionned. It can even be included in your 4th point (genetic susceptibility). As explained in my previous post, a virus is a bit of DNA. Many portions of our DNA is from viral origin; viruses do good things too (see the book virolution, that Laura recomended).
The same virus doesn't get same effect (or any effetc at all) in everybody it infects, it depends on many factors, like those you listed, it's multifactorial.
So as to how we catch a virus, it's not within the scope of STDs; viruses can spread in various ways, mostly by the air, it can also be sprayed by cosmic dust.
There's a heck of a lot of viruses around. Which means there are a heck of a lot of zebras (rather than horses) potentially creating homosexuality when the answer to it's existence may be a lot more simpler, even if they are multifactorial.
 
Just read a good example of an over-reactive transgender person who is so into the "program" that s/he/it is making life difficult now and probably in the future, and also reflecting badly on other trans persons.


In the article there is a link to this person's FB post about the incident that gives a pretty good idea of the twisted thinking.
 
I've been questioning, overall, where a "gay man" really stands in the Work and I have moments when it starts to feel like we're at a severe disadvantage.

Well, I think it is brave and the right thing to do to at least QUESTION oneself, and consider the above. It is a possibility, when you take into account "nature", polarity as Laura explained above, etc. And if it is possible, then I think it would benefit a lot to keep it in mind, because it can orient one towards different or better steps if one is sincere in his/her efforts.

That said, we are all at a "disadvantage", or not. I think that we often choose the life we have. In fact, perhaps more so at this point in History than in the past? The parents we "chose", the environment we chose to incarnate in, the social milieu, and even our genetics... all those things have made it so that each of us, in different ways, have had a billboard drop on our heads about something, sometimes more than once.

And I think that that is probably exactly how we needed it to be. We either "played in the mud" due to the programming and karma and what not, until we had enough, or learned certain things like not trusting and isolation, or a super narcissistic behavior, just to give a few examples. Whatever it is, we needed the experience in order to hopefully, one day, choose to act differently and develop sides of our self that we neglected. So, why would it be different for gays, or anyone else? The trick, of course, is to discover what we came here to learn, and make the best of it.

Just some hypotheses: considering the amount of propaganda and pushing regarding "gay pride and freedom" nowadays, one person may be homosexual because he/she needs to learn in this life to not be so attached to physicality, or to not define themselves by what they are outside, justifications, etc. (which you explained quite well with your own example in that last reply, and I think it's quite insightful and something to work on). Another person may have been born gay because the only way they can learn about this is to "play in the mud" until they are fed up with it. Another one, well, they may just like it and it's not in their life path to change.

There are any number of possibilities, but I think that as long as one is willing to be open to the truth even when it hurts, and to be ruthless with oneself, disciplined, and learn to say yes or no more appropriately, then it doesn't really matter where one stands to begin with. EVEN if being a homosexual puts someone at a disadvantage in terms of the Work, say, who is worse off? The heterosexual with lots of potential who couldn't withstand the death of the tiniest illusion, and who decided to never learn anything, or the homosexual who is still here, trying to find out the truth, face it and embody it to the best of his or her ability? I'd much rather be the one who fights than the coward. And what may be seen as a "disadvantage" could be turned into an "advantage", when there is a Will, and when one is as aware as possible. When the suffering experienced is turned into something good for others.

Again, I'm not saying that the disadvantage is real. I have no idea of whether it is or not! But I DO think that being open to accepting our limitations in ANY area and for ALL of us is productive. And in the end, we can be more realistic when putting our real talents to use, while keeping in mind our quirks or "disadvantages". Actually being grateful for some of them, because in some cases, they were a trade-off for gaining some good qualities too.

I think it may also be rooted in how I felt after the events that transpired regarding Cyre and I and our standing here overall. I'm not feeling very confident, to be honest, and it almost feels like I'm reintroducing myself here or something... it's odd.

Regarding all you shared, I think that perhaps something that could help with this is to share more on other topics. Imagine that nobody here knew you were homosexual, and participate in threads just to help others, because it is in you to do that. It shouldn't matter that you have this or that sexual orientation. What matters is that you constantly try to gain knowledge, assimilate it and share it with others. Try to find what you have in common with other people, not your "differences" only. Maybe that way, you can not just lose some of the identification and insecurities, but also discover who you trully want to be, not just in this life with your particular lessons, but as a conduit for the universe, as small as our individual influence may seem to be. FWIW!
 
It's really hard to see how homosexuality can be a "death knell" to a bloodline since it does not result in procreation. So I would say that this Annunaki idea is a load of nonsense.

However, what is interesting is that the aversion to homosexuality was so clearly expressed in ancient Egypt and perhaps they were aware that it very often leads to STDs and worse?

Going back to Gaby's post about STDs several pages back, it is surprising to see one branch of social authorities so up in arms about STDs while another branch is pushing and promoting "sexual fluidity", which is almost guaranteed to increase the spread of same in the population.

Going back to the "theory" that opened the thread, the "Gay Germ" thing, it seems to me that it is just some hardcore Darwinist types trying to come up with something to save Darwinism when homosexuality is actually much better explained by Design Theory.

In my earliest experience with homosexuality at 7, I have had an initial aversion even while I was in that “girls have cooties” phase.

At 7, I was able to reason that boys aren’t meant to do that stuff in regard to my story where an older teen tried to groom me. Being respectful and yearning attention from other boys (I attribute to having an absent father) was the only factor I can think of that caused me to almost become molested and to ultimately ignore these “default” feelings back then. Fortunately, this attachment to random older males didn’t last as I eventually found meaningful male role models who provided actual wisdom and practical knowledge.

Moving forward to my teens, I’ve almost had other homosexual encounters that couldn’t occur due to physiological reactions. I can only explain it as a hair raising/bone rattling physical aversion, which ultimately won, leaving me and could-be male mates humiliated.

To this day I’ve successfully only had female mates and it’s largely a result of these physiological reactions during my experimental phases in development that kept me from crossing that line. A line which homosexual people tried to dismiss as meaningless time and time again any time I dared to question their life style, where I would bring up my bodies defence mechanisms and feelings.

At 36, i’m very gracious that I had some line of understanding and communication with my body as I was developing. I listened to my gut as a teenager and didn’t keep secrets as a small kid. Now I have a semblance of a normal life, with a wife and child and hopefully some day more children.

People need to teach their kids not to keep secrets. Out of all the stories I’ve heard, “let’s keep this a secret” is almost always quoted by the victim as something they were asked to do, be it the cause to be sexual, drug related, or just plain degenerate or criminal. A kid should know from their parents or guardians that adult secrets aren’t meant to be shared with kids, ever.
 
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