The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient times

[Nević Nenad]

Often quite revealing, sarcasm unfortunately reduces a conversation to self importance issues, undermining the topic at hand. It's very difficult to reconcile it with the practice of external consideration.

I quite agree. Sarcasm is a power ploy. Usually employed to pull the target back into some accepted social norm that is relative to both parties, albeit one that is more important to the originator.

So, Avala, what is really bugging you? You obviously identify on some level, but it's not clear why you reacted (on your own admission).

You are right, there is some identifying, which comes from the recognizing the way of thinking presented here by Athanasius. You can read more about that from Corto Maltese's answer to Athanasius in this thread http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13149.msg96144#msg96144 I think that he explains it good.

I am also originally from the same ex-country as CM is, so I know where such line of thinking could lead (and it usually leads that ugly end). So when I read something like that it is big alert for me.

And I don't think that someone who reads sott articles and even a little bit of Secret history of the world (Athanasius stated that he has read some articles) can have such way of thinking, he is not read them or didn't understand them at all. That just my impression of that.

Another reason why I couldn't resist and was provoked to write something is frustration. By that I mean following, when someone asks you something and you tell him the answer, he didn't understands it and comes back again and asks you the same, you say it to him again, and he keeping not to understanding it and keeping coming back . . . well, I want to say that in such cases sometimes I lose my patience and react.

Big part in that "losing patience and reacting" plays that "keeping coming back" factor. I mean how to tell something to someone who has wall around him, but yet keeping pull you by the sleeve and asking the same question.

I am aware that it is hard STS and that is not mine to determine needs (or thoughts in this case) of another, but that's how I can see it right now (or maybe more precise "what I am at this moment")

 

[hottcherri]

wow, interesting read.....
how come no one has mentioned yet, that the great ghangis khan, from asia, his family lineage settled into hungary and his sons married hungarian women......thus giving a great royal bloodline
the great mogol.......
as mentioned in nostradamus prophecies
what i find most intrigueing about this thread, is the connection to the ability for hungarians to easily read and understand and interpretate the sumerian tablets, writings.....as when i first saw them, without any previous deciphering, not using anyone elses interpretations of them, i found them easily readable and comprehendable....and i haave a hungarian lineage and a native indian heritage.
also i find it interesting that as mentioned in these articles, that the hungairan language has not orginated from any other language, and that no one really knows where it came from, but yet it stands on its own, today.

 

[hottcherri]

excuse my typos please..i meant to type the great mongol..not mogol!

 

[etudiante]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Thanks for the link, Athanasius. Maybe it has changed, but it did not work for me. I found it here:
_http://www.magyarmegmaradas.eoldal.hu/cikkek/our-language/ak14
Lots more good stuff for students of Gaulois, Magyar, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and other indigenous European peoples here: _http://www.magyarmegmaradas.eoldal.hu/oldal/english---angol

 

[1984]

Thanks for the link, Athanasius. Maybe it has changed, but it did not work for me. I found it here:
_http://www.magyarmegmaradas.eoldal.hu/cikkek/our-language/ak14
Lots more good stuff for students of Gaulois, Magyar, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and other indigenous European peoples here: _http://www.magyarmegmaradas.eoldal.hu/oldal/english---angol

Welcome to the Forum, etudiante. As is customary here, please visit the Newbies section and make an introductory post. No need for personal details - how you arrived here, whether you've read any of the Wave series, etc.

 

[etudiante]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Answering my own question after a little poking around on the web:

Hungarians Type O 36% Type A 43% Type B 16% Type AB 5%

Also, the peoples of Hungary break down as follows: Hungarian 89.9%, Gypsy 4%, German 2.6%, Serb 2%, Slovak 0.8%, Romanian 0.7%

Back in the early days of man, there were only blood type O people. This means the surface of the red blood cells had neither A nor B antigens on it. This has carried down until today, when the vast majority of people are still type O.

Around 20,000BC, a mutation occurred, and some people began to be Blood Type A. These people developed an A membrane or antigen on the surface of their blood cells. This blood type became common in central Europe as well as Scandanavia. Many feel this change occurred when farming became common in those areas.

The next change was around 10,000BC. This is when some people developed a Type B membrane on their blood cells. This change took place in Asia and Japan, and biologists are not sure what encouraged this change to take place.

It was not until around the 1500s that the A groups and B groups began to mix as travel became more and more common. This formed the AB blood type, which is most common now in northern India, even though it is still the rarest of the four main blood types. Only 5% of US residents are blood type AB.
http://www.lisashea.com/lisabase/biology/art14442.html

Dear Laura,

These numbers, though widely popularized - even today - are substantially false. The "Principal component of the distribution of blood groups in European nations as represented according to Gy. Békássy" (Diagram of ABO Blood Groups, from Nagy, 2005, pp. 113-190) shows the Hungarians' blood group distribution as: O=27.23%, A=43.65%, B=19.12%, and AB=10%. E. g., incidence of the last blood group, AB, is twice the propagated percentage. Békássy's European distribution based on blood group has since been confirmed by DNA (mtDNA) analyses, a much more precise, genetic, measure. Semino (2000) et al, shows Eu4 (M35) (YAP branch) found in 5% of the European population but almost twice that, 9%, in Hungarians. In contrast, M89's branches form the overwhelming majority of European alleles but are rare among Hungarians (e. g., Eu7 through Eu12). Also, TAT, a subbranch of M9 (M89 branch), is frequent in North-Eastern Europe but is completely missing from the Hungarian population.

In so far as Lisa Shea's statements are concerned (the linked quotation), she does not source her information, so one must assume these are her own findings. She defines herself as a "a writer and database developer by profession and an explorer of life by avocation." While her interests may be commendable, her statements have no scholarly value.

Cheers.

 

[shijing]

Hi Hottcherri --

what i find most intrigueing about this thread, is the connection to the ability for hungarians to easily read and understand and interpretate the sumerian tablets, writings.....as when i first saw them, without any previous deciphering, not using anyone elses interpretations of them, i found them easily readable and comprehendable....and i haave a hungarian lineage and a native indian heritage.
also i find it interesting that as mentioned in these articles, that the hungairan language has not orginated from any other language, and that no one really knows where it came from, but yet it stands on its own, today.

Have you read the entirety of this thread? If so, you may note that Hungarian actually does have a heritage (descent from an earlier language, shared by other languages such as Finnish), and that there is no evidence that a Hungarian-speaker can read or understand Sumerian without going through the same training as anyone else would have to do before being able to do so. Do you really mean to say that you can read Sumerian without any training?

 

[etudiante]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Hi Hottcherri --

what i find most intrigueing about this thread, is the connection to the ability for hungarians to easily read and understand and interpretate the sumerian tablets, writings.....as when i first saw them, without any previous deciphering, not using anyone elses interpretations of them, i found them easily readable and comprehendable....and i haave a hungarian lineage and a native indian heritage.
also i find it interesting that as mentioned in these articles, that the hungairan language has not orginated from any other language, and that no one really knows where it came from, but yet it stands on its own, today.

Have you read the entirety of this thread? If so, you may note that Hungarian actually does have a heritage (descent from an earlier language, shared by other languages such as Finnish), and that there is no evidence that a Hungarian-speaker can read or understand Sumerian without going through the same training as anyone else would have to do before being able to do so. Do you really mean to say that you can read Sumerian without any training?

Dear shijing,

I read the entire thread but I didn't see any study supporting your claim "that Hungarian actually does have a heritage (descent from an earlier language, shared by other languages such as Finnish)." Where is it? All I found was a quotation from Stephen Sisa, a popular writer. (Stephen Sisa does not claim academic credentials or source his information.) Claims of connections between the Carpathian Basin Hungarians and the North-Eastern European Finns exist only in popular literature. They have no scientific bases (please note, above, that the mtDNA evidence also disproves such claims at the genetic level). If you know of any original research that supports your claim, please post it here. Thanks.

Cheers

 

[shijing]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Hi Etudiante --

I read the entire thread but I didn't see any study supporting your claim "that Hungarian actually does have a heritage (descent from an earlier language, shared by other languages such as Finnish)." Where is it? All I found was a quotation from Stephen Sisa, a popular writer. (Stephen Sisa does not claim academic credentials or source his information.) Claims of connections between the Carpathian Basin Hungarians and the North-Eastern European Finns exist only in popular literature. They have no scientific bases (please note, above, that the mtDNA evidence also disproves such claims at the genetic level). If you know of any original research that supports your claim, please post it here. Thanks.

Well, first see my second post on this thread (reply #13) for a general reference (if you follow the Wikipedia link there, you will find additional references, although as I mention in that post, the list is incomplete and could be bolstered). I think it might be important to separate apples and oranges -- what I think you are talking about is genetic (mtDNA) evidence, but what I am referring to is linguistic evidence (that is the nature of the connection I understood Hottcherri to be implying, anyway). And linguistically speaking, the connection between Hungarian and other Finno-Ugric (and ultimately Uralic) languages seems to be nailed down pretty tightly. Languages and genes don't always travel together as an exclusive bundle, so there is plenty of room to explore what could lie behind a divergence between the linguistic relationships of Hungarian and the genetic relationships of the people who live in the Carpathian Basin and speak Hungarian. But to say that there is no scientific basis to connect Hungarian and Finnish at the linguistic level ignores a century of scholarship in the area (most of which is to be found in academic sources, although these are no doubt sometime drawn upon in popular literature).

 

[etudiante]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Hi Etudiante --

I read the entire thread but I didn't see any study supporting your claim "that Hungarian actually does have a heritage (descent from an earlier language, shared by other languages such as Finnish)." Where is it? All I found was a quotation from Stephen Sisa, a popular writer. (Stephen Sisa does not claim academic credentials or source his information.) Claims of connections between the Carpathian Basin Hungarians and the North-Eastern European Finns exist only in popular literature. They have no scientific bases (please note, above, that the mtDNA evidence also disproves such claims at the genetic level). If you know of any original research that supports your claim, please post it here. Thanks.

Well, first see my second post on this thread (reply #13) for a general reference (if you follow the Wikipedia link there, you will find additional references, although as I mention in that post, the list is incomplete and could be bolstered). I think it might be important to separate apples and oranges -- what I think you are talking about is genetic (mtDNA) evidence, but what I am referring to is linguistic evidence (that is the nature of the connection I understood Hottcherri to be implying, anyway). And linguistically speaking, the connection between Hungarian and other Finno-Ugric (and ultimately Uralic) languages seems to be nailed down pretty tightly. Languages and genes don't always travel together as an exclusive bundle, so there is plenty of room to explore what could lie behind a divergence between the linguistic relationships of Hungarian and the genetic relationships of the people who live in the Carpathian Basin and speak Hungarian. But to say that there is no scientific basis to connect Hungarian and Finnish at the linguistic level ignores a century of scholarship in the area (most of which is to be found in academic sources, although these are no doubt sometime drawn upon in popular literature).

Personal Message (Online)


Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 10:39:05 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify
Quote from: shijing on Yesterday at 03:00:58 PM
Hi Hottcherri --

Quote from: hottcherri on August 16, 2009, 12:27:15 PM
what i find most intrigueing about this thread, is the connection to the ability for hungarians to easily read and understand and interpretate the sumerian tablets, writings.....as when i first saw them, without any previous deciphering, not using anyone elses interpretations of them, i found them easily readable and comprehendable....and i haave a hungarian lineage and a native indian heritage.
also i find it interesting that as mentioned in these articles, that the hungairan language has not orginated from any other language, and that no one really knows where it came from, but yet it stands on its own, today.

Have you read the entirety of this thread? If so, you may note that Hungarian actually does have a heritage (descent from an earlier language, shared by other languages such as Finnish), and that there is no evidence that a Hungarian-speaker can read or understand Sumerian without going through the same training as anyone else would have to do before being able to do so. Do you really mean to say that you can read Sumerian without any training?

Dear shijing,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I can only use original research in my program. This excludes all Wikipedia entries but may include their externally linked original research work. In the case of the entry you mention, I found only links in which the authors either don't source their information, or rely on circular reference - where one author relies on her/his own unsupported (by original research) claims or on another author's equally unsupported claims.

"And linguistically speaking, the connection ... nailed down pretty tightly." This is where I need guidance to original research work (not popularized literature). Could you cite any?

"Languages and genes don't always travel together as an exclusive bundle..." I don't believe I argued that point. Perhaps this is meant to be a rebuttal to an earlier post by go2 (Reply 12) who relies on blood type distribution to "support the linguistic evidence of a common origin." In this case, your observation actually undercuts claims of a linguistic connection.

There's no shortage of verifiable documentation that convincingly refutes any previous claims of Hungarian-Finnish linguistic connection (e. g., Dr. László Marácz, Professor and Lecturer, Amsterdam University, The Untenability of the Finno-Ugric Theory from a Linguistic Point of View: Selected Studies in Hungarian History, 2008, pp. 547-558 and 926-7). But I what I need is original research, i. e., early or contemporary field work documentation on claims of such connection. If you know of any, kindly post the info here.

Cheers

 

[anart]

Hi etudiante,

I'm curious about how you know Athanasius? Since you arrived here to our forum a day or two after his posting ability was removed, and are continuing with his line of thought, it would be helpful to know.

 

[etudiante]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Hi etudiante,

I'm curious about how you know Athanasius? Since you arrived here to our forum a day or two after his posting ability was removed, and are continuing with his line of thought, it would be helpful to know.

Dear anart,

I'm not sure what to make of your post. I find your question quite loaded but will do my best to answer anyway: I don't know Athanasius. I didn't even know the poster is a "he." I came across "his" post, Reply #18, during a Google "magyar etruscan" search. One of the hits was this forum. The tone of your post suggests that you, as "SuperModerator," disapprove of "continuing with his line of thought" as you put it. If this is so, please advise and I will refrain from visiting cassiopaea.org.

Cheers

 

[anart]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Dear anart,

I'm not sure what to make of your post. I find your question quite loaded but will do my best to answer anyway: I don't know Athanasius. I didn't even know the poster is a "he." I came across "his" post, Reply #18, during a Google "magyar etruscan" search. One of the hits was this forum. The tone of your post suggests that you, as "SuperModerator," disapprove of "continuing with his line of thought" as you put it. If this is so, please advise and I will refrain from visiting cassiopaea.org.

Cheers

Hmmm, that is a rather emotional response to a very simple question on my part. Is there a reason you reacted in this way?

 

[etudiante]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Dear anart,

I'm not sure what to make of your post. I find your question quite loaded but will do my best to answer anyway: I don't know Athanasius. I didn't even know the poster is a "he." I came across "his" post, Reply #18, during a Google "magyar etruscan" search. One of the hits was this forum. The tone of your post suggests that you, as "SuperModerator," disapprove of "continuing with his line of thought" as you put it. If this is so, please advise and I will refrain from visiting cassiopaea.org.

Cheers

Hmmm, that is a rather emotional response to a very simple question on my part. Is there a reason you reacted in this way?

Your observations are certainly revealing: they expose a covert misanthropic intent. Farewell.

 

[anart]

Re: The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient ti

Your observations are certainly revealing: they expose a covert misanthropic intent. Farewell.

Actually, if that is what my observations reveal to you, then your perception is greatly lacking. I do find it fascinating that upon simply being questioned on whether you knew Athanasius, you 'explode' this way - now, that, is quite telling. You see, often, when one comes to this forum with an agenda and this agenda is even subtly threatened to be revealed, such individuals will completely overreact and then storm out, oh so offended and 'protesting too much'. I'm not saying that is definitely the case here, but, wholly due to your responses, the pieces certainly fit.