The "Mandela Effect"- Has my Bible changed? Or do I just have a bad memory like most people?
Mr. Premise said:
This seems the simplest explanation. Going for the "timeline change" bit seems a a little over the top when a System 1 heuristic error is much more likely.
Laura said:
I was thinking about Laura when listening some videos about the Mandela Effect when they say that they "change" some passages of the Bible but I was too shy to ask here if it is possible. Laura is an expert about the Bible, surely she can know. I will try to find the video, there are specially two citations of the Bible where the man say it was not there and now it is there: one is concerning a change about a lion, now it is a wolf instead of a lion, a very popular passage of the bible. And the other it says, now, that Jesus is telling to people to cut the throats of the infidels. I look the passages when listening the video, it is in my bible.
I was thinking also about "1984" where the principal character ( I forget his name) is working in a department that is changing the History, changing the past to change to present...
Laura said:
Yes. You've all created a some yourselves! :)
It just seems that such a conclusion should be more of a Sherlock Holmes thing, when all other reasonable possibilities are eliminated, especially on things like misremembered book titles. Important world events are another matter entirely.
Laura said:
Well thanks, because I did get quite thrown when I watched a video about this recently. It mostly covered pop culture stuff:
Here's a rundown of things that people claim are different than they remember them.
Star Wars scene with Luke and Vader. Many people remember Vader saying, "Luke, I am your father" while the actual line is, "No, I am your father". Even James Earl Jones is interviewed saying the first line.
C3PO always had a silver leg. I have no memory him having a silver leg, yet I asked others and apparently he always had a silver leg.
A striking example from the video is a scene from the movie Moonraker (starting at 13:25) where Jaws and Dolly fall in love because they both have braces in their mouths. But in the film today Dolly has no braces, which means them falling in love makes very little narrative sense.
Did the Scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz have a gun? (21:02) Apparently so, but I have no memory of any of them having weapons.
Mr. Rogers sang, "It's a beautiful day in THIS neighborhood". For me it was always it's a beautiful day IN the neighborhood, but that's not how it is now.
And finally, changes to the King James Bible that many people are noticing:
The differences that some see to the Lord's Prayer are shown in the vid at 49:37. That is, the actual verse uses debtors instead of trespasses.
Grain or wheat has been changed to corn (50:48) Wine-skin has been changed to bottle in Matthew 9:17 (52:01). From Matthew 26:45, Jesus tells his disciples to take rest, but it doesn't seem to make sense. Many people remember Jesus saying to wake now, behold.
And the one that has confused many, many people is from Isaiah 11:6 (55:00). Many people remember the line as "the lion will lay down with the lamb", but it's actually "the wolf shall dwell with the lamb." The video gives a bunch of real life examples of lions and lambs being used by people for businesses, for tattoos, being used in popular culture over and over.
Perhaps a lot these instances are people remembering things how they should be and not as they are, although that doesn't explain why so many people remember Mandela dying in the 80's. But the Scarecrow with a gun? And the lion vs. wolf? I think there is some validity to the idea of timeline changes here.
duyunne
Jedi Council Member
Hi ankhepiphan
I'm intrigued.
I think it'd be worth your time and effort to quote what has changed.
As in, quote the changed version from your current bible, then quote what you remember. Or describe what you remember that has changed.
I wouldn't be surprised someone here may be able to validate your suspicion by remembering the same thing.
Cheers
I'm intrigued.
I think it'd be worth your time and effort to quote what has changed.
As in, quote the changed version from your current bible, then quote what you remember. Or describe what you remember that has changed.
I wouldn't be surprised someone here may be able to validate your suspicion by remembering the same thing.
Cheers
When the Mandella effect was first brought up, I asked a few non-forum friends about the scene from Star Wars (Luke, I am your father) and about the scene of the evil queen in Disney's Snow White (mirror, mirror..) and they inevitably responded with the way everybody remember those quotes. Of course it was not a leading question, just "what did Darth Vader/The Evil Queen say..."Beau said:
JGeropoulas
The Living Force
zin said:
Yeah, there are so many various translations (and revisions) published, it would be essential to eliminate that variable in any comparisons.
Just watched the video posted by Beau. We can make a little experiment: Those who have grown up in a Christian religion (Catholic or otherwise) can post how they remember the Pater Noster prayer, but without checking the spelling, not looking it up on the internet or on any other source, just instantly from memory (and who have not watched the video). Then those (preferably other members if possible) who have old prints of the bible (let's say before the 1990's and older) can verify whether these memorized quotes do correspond to the way they appear now in those books.
Skyalmian
Jedi Council Member
This came to mind:mkrnhr said:
"Tommy Boy (4/10) Best Movie Quote - Star Wars Happy Time (1995 ..."
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsI3lFHkU_s
Below the link in search results I just saw this:
_https://verumetinventa.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/mandela-effect-star-wars-time-shift-luke-i-am-your-father-proof
shijing
The Living Force
Beau said:
There's definitely something very odd about this. For most of the material that was presented in the video, I fall into the 'Timeline B' group, where I remember the 'original' material that's no longer there. As I watched the video, I paused from time to time to search either Google or YouTube depending on what was being discussed, and it was pretty unnerving to see the changes as compared to what I remember.
In all instances of the popular media examples for which I have a personal recollection, I remember the 'original' versions. Some of them are contextualized; for example I remember being on the playground after The Empire Strikes Back came out, and some kids playing and quoting "Luke, I am your father." I had a C-3PO action figure when I was in early grade school, and it definitely didn't have a silver leg. I also clearly remember "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood", "If you build it, they will come" (that's actually quoted a couple of times on the forum), "Mirror, mirror on the wall" (from the Disney movie -- I never read the original version), "Life is like a box of chocolates", and "Sex in the City".
I never saw Moonraker, Jaws, or Silence of the Lambs, so can't comment on those, although in the case of the Moonraker clip, it's true that the 'new' version seems to be illogical based on what's explained. I want to say that I remember Curious George having a tail, but can't remember clearly enough to be certain (but he looks strange to me without one). In a few cases, the words in question in the examples above are function words ('the' vs 'this', 'in' vs 'and', 'they' vs 'he', 'is' vs 'was') which are less salient than content words, so less likely to be noticed if they were altered.
The JFK section was bizarre -- the six-seater limo looks totally wrong to me. Does anyone else have the same reaction?
The map section was the muddiest for me -- the one instance where I clearly don't have an 'original' memory is in the case of the large landmass to the west of Australia, which I don't have even a glimmer of. When I brought up a world map, Papua New Guinea did look closer to Australia than I remember, but it's difficult to be certain whether my mind is playing tricks in that case of not. Greenland also looks odd to me, but I can't say for sure if it's because of a size difference or not, or whether in this case it's just the power of suggestion.
In the Bible section, at first I thought that most of what was going to be treated might be explained by different translations -- the Lord's Prayer example could conceivably be explained that way. I'm not sure what to think about Matthew 9:17 (the 'wineskins' vs 'bottles' example) since you can find examples of both versions, although the 'bottle' translation is pretty awkward and I'd never seen it before; the same goes for the Matthew 26:45 example. The Isaiah 11:6 is just downright creepy -- I'm sure I remember 'lion' instead of 'wolf', and there are plenty of auxiliary examples to back that up, but when you do a search on it, all that comes up is the 'wolf' version (with the exception of Google Images). There are several links which say the verse is misquoted, but if that's the case I don't know why I'd never heard the 'wolf' version before now.
Anyway, I'd love to hear a mundane explanation for these examples -- I don't presently have one. Entertaining the possibility of a timeline splice, a lot of these cases give the impression that it was a rather sloppy one.
