The Mecca Mystery: Probing the Black Hole at the Heart of Muslim History by Peter Townsend

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
While not directly related to what Townsend himself writes in his book, still it is close enough, so below is a quote from a letter by the Danish author Karen Blixen written in Berlin in 1939. In this letter, Blixen trying to find words as an observer for what she experiences around her in Nazi Germany, apparently before the war began in earnest, and drawing from experiences and knowledge about Islam, ends with: "Which of the two mentalities is the most dangerous is not good to know." From her position in history, she could not answer this question, but in this edited Google translation you will read why she even raised it:

COLLECTED ESSAYS - written during a stay in Berlin in 1939 - Karen Blixen compares in the chapter, "Letters from a country in war", Nazism with Islam:
"Could there ever have been something like this Third Reich? Of the events that I have personally known in my life, the one that comes closest to it is Islam, the Mohammedan world and worldview.

- The word Islam means devotion, it is probably the same as the Third Kingdom expresses in its show of hands (the Hitler salutation): Yours in life and death.

Islam is of the two the highest ideal because it is higher to serve God than to serve a homeland or a race. The cry of the minaret: "There is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet," is of a more everlasting nature than any battle cry of the chosen people. The crescent is a more noble sign than the garden cross - (which at least has something troubled and broken, spasmodic in its movement, where not, as on the towers at the entrance to the stadium, the hooks are bent to form fragments of a periphery, which collect the figure and bring it to rest.)

Yet the two worlds have many things in common. But one should not think of the old Islam, which we now know, after it has found a modus vivendi between the world religions. You have to go back eleven or twelve centuries to the meeting with the young Muhammadan movement as it arose and unfolded like a banner and went forward to subdue the world. Then there must have been lightning and thunder in the clouds, and the surrounding kingdoms must have felt badly about the situation. Where did the desert people get this power?

The Islamic world view, like Nazism, has a tremendous self-esteem: The believer stands above all unbelievers, one faithful soul is worth more than the gold of the whole world. It is, in its essence, class-destroying as the Third Reich, the one Muhammadan is whether he is a water carrier or emir, as good as the other. It has a great cohesion and great helpfulness among the believers - 10% of your fortune you must give to those in need of Islam, and it is not alms but a debt you pay. In its rituals, Islam has a resemblance to the Third Reich: the believers do not have time to become strangers to each other. Some things in "Mein Kampf" are like chapters in the Qur'an.

Islam became widespread with the sword, it is an indictment against it by other religions, which, at this point, cannot all themselves have the best conscience. I want to quote as far as I remember it, because you can't buy English books here in Berlin - what Carlyle has to say about it in her book: "Heroes and Hero-Workship", which for the rest has much of the Third Reich's thinking. "With the sword," he writes. “Yes, but from where did the Prophet get the swords? Every new religion begins with a minority of one single man - on the one hand he, on the other hand, all the others. - It would not benefit him to try to spread his faith with the sword. Let him get his swords. "

The very idea of the paradise of Islam is created by a fantasy of war, an ideal for an army in the march. - "As long as you march, you must suppress all your desires and keep abstaining, persistent, ready for battle. But when the city is occupied and we have gone to camp, it all becomes quite different. ”It is a five-year plan in a supernatural dimension.

Islam is characterized by its desert origin, which is sandstorms in it and large mirages. On the other hand, I think, the Third Reich has a purely ecstatic respectability, an ambition of life and death, in heaven and on earth. Which of the two mentalities is the most dangerous is not good to know.”
 
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thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
One wonders if the idea of Karen Blixen was original or it was just the usual, great mind think alike. Here is a quote from Carl Jung from an interview at the end of the 1930'ies.
We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad.
The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future.
The Swiss theologian Karl Barth, 1939:

It is impossible to understand National Socialism unless we see it in fact as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah’s Prophet“ - source.
One suspects the two figures communicated, but we don't know. And while we are here, today the political establishment as soon, as they wish to vilify a political leader, compare him or her with Hitler; in the 1930'ies it appears some European intellectuals compared Hitler with the prophet of Islam.
 

Pashalis

Ambassador
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In the new thread From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyénot, it was brought up that the author, Laurent Guyenot, recently published an article in which he explores Islam and how it might have been a Jewish creation from the get-go.

So far (not having started to read the two recent recommended books about Islam mentioned above yet) all I can say is that Islam and what it preaches/demands already made me suspicious a while ago, that a lot of it might have been based on Judaism. I was actually wondering why Guyenot didn't mention anything about it in his Zion book. So Guyenot seems to actually support that suspicion/flavor that Islam invoked in me, especially after having almost finished From Yahweh to Zion and remembered what the C's recently said about Islam.

A short segment from the article:

"[...] I mentioned earlier the thesis that Wahhabism is a Jewish creation. But was not Islam itself a Jewish creation from the beginning? The influence of Judaism on Muhammad is beyond question. [...]"
Here it is:

 

Anthony

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In the new thread From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyénot, it was brought up that the author, Laurent Guyenot, recently published an article in which he explores Islam and how it might have been a Jewish creation from the get-go.

So far (not having started to read the two recent recommended books about Islam mentioned above yet) all I can say is that Islam and what it preaches/demands already made me suspicious a while ago, that a lot of it might have been based on Judaism. I was actually wondering why Guyenot didn't mention anything about it in his Zion book. So Guyenot seems to actually support that suspicion/flavor that Islam invoked in me, especially after having almost finished From Yahweh to Zion and remembered what the C's recently said about Islam.

A short segment from the article:



Here it is:

Townsend notes that Islam was influenced by Judaism, Zoroastrianism, paganism, certain Christian sects and various other belief systems that were present at the time.
 

Pashalis

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Just started to listen to this discussion between Gilad Atzmon and Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro.

 

Navigator

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
n the new thread From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyénot, it was brought up that the author, Laurent Guyenot, recently published an article in which he explores Islam and how it might have been a Jewish creation from the get-go.

Here is an excerpt from the article in reference to Wahhabism:

There are actually rumors that both Muhammad ibn Saud (1710-1765), founder of the Saud dynasty, and his partner Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab (1703-1792), founder of Wahhabism, were Jews of ancient stock. The Memoirs of a British spy named Hempher, made known in 1888 by Ottoman admiral Ayyub Sabri Pasha, claims that Abd-al-Wahab was from a family of Dönmeh, and that his reform was covertly supported by the British as part of a strategy to foment division within Islam and destabilize Ottoman rule. This source is taken seriously in an Iraqi Military Intelligence report dated 2002 and entitled “The Emergence of Wahhabism and its Historical Roots”, translated by the U.S. Department of Defense. The Iraqi report also refers to other Arabian sources claiming that ibn Saud was descended from a Jewish merchant from Basra. These claims receive a lot of echo in the Islamic world. It is especially common among Iranian Shiites to consider that “Wahhabism has its roots in Judaism,” as an Iranian top general recently stated.[8] Wahhabis do indeed seem to be driven by the same bloodthirsty demon that spoke to Moses, Joshua and Elijah, a point appropriately illustrated by their fury against Baal, Yahweh’s biblical nemesis, whose ancient temple in Palmyra the Islamic State blew up in 2015.

Although the crypto-Jewish origins of Wahhabism and/or the Saud dynasty seem impossible to authenticate, they are not implausible. There have been powerful Jewish communities in Arabia from very ancient times. At the time of the prophet Muhammad, writes Gordon Newby in A History of the Jews of Arabia, “Jews were present in all areas of Arabian society. There were Jewish merchants, Jewish bedouins, Jewish farmers, Jewish poets, and Jewish warriors. Jews lives in castles and in tents. They spoke Arabic as well as Hebrew and Aramaic.”[9] They bore Arab names and their tribal organization was no different from that of other Arabs. Many converted to Islam over the centuries but some may have maintained some secret Jewishness. The most powerful Jewish community that Muhammad had to deal with was that of Khaybar, a hundred miles north of Medina. In the 12th century, there were still 50,000 Jews in that region, according to Jewish traveller Benjamin of Tuleda. They “go forth to pillage and to capture booty from distant lands in conjunction with the Arabs, their neighbors and allies.”[10] In 1875, Charles Montagu Doughty found that they had become “Moslems outwardly, but, in secret, cruel Jews that will suffer no stranger to enter among them.”[11] Itzhak Ben-Zvi postulates a form of crypto-Judaism to explain the simultaneity of the decline of north Arabian Jewry and the rise of the Wahhabis.[12]
 
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