The Mecca Mystery: Probing the Black Hole at the Heart of Muslim History by Peter Townsend

[Christophe]

Just searched and found a Peter Townsend account with info about Islam: https://twitter.com/pthistory Is it possible that the links I posted in the last post are not genuine?

Likewise, the link worked for me

 

[thorbiorn]

While not directly related to what Townsend himself writes in his book, still it is close enough, so below is a quote from a letter by the Danish author Karen Blixen written in Berlin in 1939. In this letter, Blixen trying to find words as an observer for what she experiences around her in Nazi Germany, apparently before the war began in earnest, and drawing from experiences and knowledge about Islam, ends with: "Which of the two mentalities is the most dangerous is not good to know." From her position in history, she could not answer this question, but in this edited Google translation you will read why she even raised it:

COLLECTED ESSAYS - written during a stay in Berlin in 1939 - Karen Blixen compares in the chapter, "Letters from a country in war", Nazism with Islam:
"Could there ever have been something like this Third Reich? Of the events that I have personally known in my life, the one that comes closest to it is Islam, the Mohammedan world and worldview.

- The word Islam means devotion, it is probably the same as the Third Kingdom expresses in its show of hands (the Hitler salutation): Yours in life and death.

Islam is of the two the highest ideal because it is higher to serve God than to serve a homeland or a race. The cry of the minaret: "There is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet," is of a more everlasting nature than any battle cry of the chosen people. The crescent is a more noble sign than the garden cross - (which at least has something troubled and broken, spasmodic in its movement, where not, as on the towers at the entrance to the stadium, the hooks are bent to form fragments of a periphery, which collect the figure and bring it to rest.)

Yet the two worlds have many things in common. But one should not think of the old Islam, which we now know, after it has found a modus vivendi between the world religions. You have to go back eleven or twelve centuries to the meeting with the young Muhammadan movement as it arose and unfolded like a banner and went forward to subdue the world. Then there must have been lightning and thunder in the clouds, and the surrounding kingdoms must have felt badly about the situation. Where did the desert people get this power?

The Islamic world view, like Nazism, has a tremendous self-esteem: The believer stands above all unbelievers, one faithful soul is worth more than the gold of the whole world. It is, in its essence, class-destroying as the Third Reich, the one Muhammadan is whether he is a water carrier or emir, as good as the other. It has a great cohesion and great helpfulness among the believers - 10% of your fortune you must give to those in need of Islam, and it is not alms but a debt you pay. In its rituals, Islam has a resemblance to the Third Reich: the believers do not have time to become strangers to each other. Some things in "Mein Kampf" are like chapters in the Qur'an.

Islam became widespread with the sword, it is an indictment against it by other religions, which, at this point, cannot all themselves have the best conscience. I want to quote as far as I remember it, because you can't buy English books here in Berlin - what Carlyle has to say about it in her book: "Heroes and Hero-Workship", which for the rest has much of the Third Reich's thinking. "With the sword," he writes. “Yes, but from where did the Prophet get the swords? Every new religion begins with a minority of one single man - on the one hand he, on the other hand, all the others. - It would not benefit him to try to spread his faith with the sword. Let him get his swords. "

The very idea of the paradise of Islam is created by a fantasy of war, an ideal for an army in the march. - "As long as you march, you must suppress all your desires and keep abstaining, persistent, ready for battle. But when the city is occupied and we have gone to camp, it all becomes quite different. ”It is a five-year plan in a supernatural dimension.

Islam is characterized by its desert origin, which is sandstorms in it and large mirages. On the other hand, I think, the Third Reich has a purely ecstatic respectability, an ambition of life and death, in heaven and on earth. Which of the two mentalities is the most dangerous is not good to know.”

 

[thorbiorn]

One wonders if the idea of Karen Blixen was original or it was just the usual, great mind think alike. Here is a quote from Carl Jung from an interview at the end of the 1930'ies.

We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad.
The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future.

The Swiss theologian Karl Barth, 1939:

“It is impossible to understand National Socialism unless we see it in fact as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah’s Prophet“ - source.

One suspects the two figures communicated, but we don't know. And while we are here, today the political establishment as soon, as they wish to vilify a political leader, compare him or her with Hitler; in the 1930'ies it appears some European intellectuals compared Hitler with the prophet of Islam.

 

[Cosmos]

In the new thread From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyénot, it was brought up that the author, Laurent Guyenot, recently published an article in which he explores Islam and how it might have been a Jewish creation from the get-go.

So far (not having started to read the two recent recommended books about Islam mentioned above yet) all I can say is that Islam and what it preaches/demands already made me suspicious a while ago, that a lot of it might have been based on Judaism. I was actually wondering why Guyenot didn't mention anything about it in his Zion book. So Guyenot seems to actually support that suspicion/flavor that Islam invoked in me, especially after having almost finished From Yahweh to Zion and remembered what the C's recently said about Islam.

A short segment from the article:

"[...] I mentioned earlier the thesis that Wahhabism is a Jewish creation. But was not Islam itself a Jewish creation from the beginning? The influence of Judaism on Muhammad is beyond question. [...]"

Here it is:

The Arabian Cradle of Zion

Moses, Muhammad, and Wahhabo-Zionism

www.unz.com

 

[Anthony]

In the new thread From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyénot, it was brought up that the author, Laurent Guyenot, recently published an article in which he explores Islam and how it might have been a Jewish creation from the get-go.

So far (not having started to read the two recent recommended books about Islam mentioned above yet) all I can say is that Islam and what it preaches/demands already made me suspicious a while ago, that a lot of it might have been based on Judaism. I was actually wondering why Guyenot didn't mention anything about it in his Zion book. So Guyenot seems to actually support that suspicion/flavor that Islam invoked in me, especially after having almost finished From Yahweh to Zion and remembered what the C's recently said about Islam.

A short segment from the article:



Here it is:

The Arabian Cradle of Zion

Moses, Muhammad, and Wahhabo-Zionism

www.unz.com

Townsend notes that Islam was influenced by Judaism, Zoroastrianism, paganism, certain Christian sects and various other belief systems that were present at the time.

 

[Cosmos]

Just started to listen to this discussion between Gilad Atzmon and Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro.

 

[Navigator]

n the new thread From Yahweh to Zion by Laurent Guyénot, it was brought up that the author, Laurent Guyenot, recently published an article in which he explores Islam and how it might have been a Jewish creation from the get-go.

Here is an excerpt from the article in reference to Wahhabism:

There are actually rumors that both Muhammad ibn Saud (1710-1765), founder of the Saud dynasty, and his partner Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab (1703-1792), founder of Wahhabism, were Jews of ancient stock. The Memoirs of a British spy named Hempher, made known in 1888 by Ottoman admiral Ayyub Sabri Pasha, claims that Abd-al-Wahab was from a family of Dönmeh, and that his reform was covertly supported by the British as part of a strategy to foment division within Islam and destabilize Ottoman rule. This source is taken seriously in an Iraqi Military Intelligence report dated 2002 and entitled “The Emergence of Wahhabism and its Historical Roots”, translated by the U.S. Department of Defense. The Iraqi report also refers to other Arabian sources claiming that ibn Saud was descended from a Jewish merchant from Basra. These claims receive a lot of echo in the Islamic world. It is especially common among Iranian Shiites to consider that “Wahhabism has its roots in Judaism,” as an Iranian top general recently stated.[8] Wahhabis do indeed seem to be driven by the same bloodthirsty demon that spoke to Moses, Joshua and Elijah, a point appropriately illustrated by their fury against Baal, Yahweh’s biblical nemesis, whose ancient temple in Palmyra the Islamic State blew up in 2015.

Although the crypto-Jewish origins of Wahhabism and/or the Saud dynasty seem impossible to authenticate, they are not implausible. There have been powerful Jewish communities in Arabia from very ancient times. At the time of the prophet Muhammad, writes Gordon Newby in A History of the Jews of Arabia, “Jews were present in all areas of Arabian society. There were Jewish merchants, Jewish bedouins, Jewish farmers, Jewish poets, and Jewish warriors. Jews lives in castles and in tents. They spoke Arabic as well as Hebrew and Aramaic.”[9] They bore Arab names and their tribal organization was no different from that of other Arabs. Many converted to Islam over the centuries but some may have maintained some secret Jewishness. The most powerful Jewish community that Muhammad had to deal with was that of Khaybar, a hundred miles north of Medina. In the 12th century, there were still 50,000 Jews in that region, according to Jewish traveller Benjamin of Tuleda. They “go forth to pillage and to capture booty from distant lands in conjunction with the Arabs, their neighbors and allies.”[10] In 1875, Charles Montagu Doughty found that they had become “Moslems outwardly, but, in secret, cruel Jews that will suffer no stranger to enter among them.”[11] Itzhak Ben-Zvi postulates a form of crypto-Judaism to explain the simultaneity of the decline of north Arabian Jewry and the rise of the Wahhabis.[12]

 

[Nostradamus]

Hello everybody,

I have been studying for a few years the birth of Islam (book in writing class) and I have therefore read this thread carefully (10 hours of reading to catch up!). There are many very interesting things that will be useful for my research. Obviously, our ideas converge on many things. I can't answer all the comments, I'll just stay on the original topic: Mecca.

Townsend's ideas about the historicity of Mecca are in line with Dan Gibson's. I admit that the hypothesis is relevant : moving the Kaaba from Petra to Mecca. The Nabatan city was no longer mentioned after the end of the 5th and beginning of the 6th centuries and became in 700AD a simple village. It is therefore very likely that there has been a transfer, but the period remains uncertain. The question is, why to this place, to Mecca? The cult of "bétyles", sacred stones were widespread in the region and it is possible that Mecca was another place of pilgrimage, perhaps secondary. Chroniclers refer to many places where stones are worshipped. Up to 24 "kaaba" can be found in the Arabian Peninsula (Allat to Taif, Uzza to Nakhlah and Manat near Qudayd...).


I propose to broaden the subject by looking down on this period, the birth of Islam. The same thing happens in Arabia as in Europe, around the same time. We now clearly see the objectives of the SDS plan:
- Elimination of paganism with the establishment of a "competitive" patriarchal monotheism, preparation for the "clash of civilizations" that we are witnessing today. In the East as in Europe, the pagan is a miscreant who must be exterminated, the past means ignorance and misguidedness. Cataclysm is an opportunity to rewrite history.
- Eviction from the cult of the Mother Goddess, from all traces of these traditions.
- In both cases too, prohibition of intercession with gods or spirits ("djinn" in Arabic, which will give the western word "genius"), i. e. the shamanic function

It is in these aspects that the subject is interesting. It would take too long to develop here, so here are some ideas.
The Koranic message is to kill the goddess. Those who pray to the matriarchal deities (Allat, Uzza, Manat) are unbelievers. This is certainly the reason why Petra is ignored and then abandoned because beyond the desire to get rid of Rome, the cult of the Goddess is very marked in the city. Transformation of the goddess Allat into Allah.

Ka'aba would mean cube in Arabic, but Ka'aba itself would be the ancient "Kaabou", from the Greek word meaning "young girl", and refers to the goddess Astarte, i. e. Aphrodite in Greek mythology which corresponds to the Roman Venus and al-'Uzza of the Arabs considered as the goddess of fertility. Today Ka'aba has become a serious insult in Arabic that means prostitute. Everything is summarized in this semantic transformation....

Why do you think Ramadan is chosen for fasting? Muslims have great difficulty answering this question. Is it possible that the 9th month of Ramadan corresponds to the 9th month of the pregnancy of the mother goddess Allat? The end of Ramadan celebration would then celebrate the goddess' birth. During fasting, it would then only be possible to eat and mate in the presence of the moon, i.e. Allat.
The goddess Allat had a nickname, or an additional title, Saba pronounced Shaybah, meaning midwife, or, "The one of ancient wisdom". Before Islam, the guardians of the Sanctuary were priestesses called "Bathi-Sheba", "daughters of the Ancient Midwife".

Many Westerners, especially midwives, have observed that the black stone case at the corner of the Kaaba has a vulva shape, with a baby's head coming out. The word Hajj (Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca) is derived from "Hack" which means friction in Arabic because there was a pagan ritual in which women rubbed their genitals on the black stone hoping to increase their fertility... They coated the stone with the blood of menstruation and walked around naked.

Etc...

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

Hello everybody,

I have been studying for a few years the birth of Islam (book in writing class) and I have therefore read this thread carefully (10 hours of reading to catch up!). There are many very interesting things that will be useful for my research. Obviously, our ideas converge on many things. I can't answer all the comments, I'll just stay on the original topic: Mecca.

Townsend's ideas about the historicity of Mecca are in line with Dan Gibson's. I admit that the hypothesis is relevant : moving the Kaaba from Petra to Mecca. The Nabatan city was no longer mentioned after the end of the 5th and beginning of the 6th centuries and became in 700AD a simple village. It is therefore very likely that there has been a transfer, but the period remains uncertain. The question is, why to this place, to Mecca? The cult of "bétyles", sacred stones were widespread in the region and it is possible that Mecca was another place of pilgrimage, perhaps secondary. Chroniclers refer to many places where stones are worshipped. Up to 24 "kaaba" can be found in the Arabian Peninsula (Allat to Taif, Uzza to Nakhlah and Manat near Qudayd...).


I propose to broaden the subject by looking down on this period, the birth of Islam. The same thing happens in Arabia as in Europe, around the same time. We now clearly see the objectives of the SDS plan:
- Elimination of paganism with the establishment of a "competitive" patriarchal monotheism, preparation for the "clash of civilizations" that we are witnessing today. In the East as in Europe, the pagan is a miscreant who must be exterminated, the past means ignorance and misguidedness. Cataclysm is an opportunity to rewrite history.
- Eviction from the cult of the Mother Goddess, from all traces of these traditions.
- In both cases too, prohibition of intercession with gods or spirits ("djinn" in Arabic, which will give the western word "genius"), i. e. the shamanic function

It is in these aspects that the subject is interesting. It would take too long to develop here, so here are some ideas.
The Koranic message is to kill the goddess. Those who pray to the matriarchal deities (Allat, Uzza, Manat) are unbelievers. This is certainly the reason why Petra is ignored and then abandoned because beyond the desire to get rid of Rome, the cult of the Goddess is very marked in the city. Transformation of the goddess Allat into Allah.

Ka'aba would mean cube in Arabic, but Ka'aba itself would be the ancient "Kaabou", from the Greek word meaning "young girl", and refers to the goddess Astarte, i. e. Aphrodite in Greek mythology which corresponds to the Roman Venus and al-'Uzza of the Arabs considered as the goddess of fertility. Today Ka'aba has become a serious insult in Arabic that means prostitute. Everything is summarized in this semantic transformation....

Why do you think Ramadan is chosen for fasting? Muslims have great difficulty answering this question. Is it possible that the 9th month of Ramadan corresponds to the 9th month of the pregnancy of the mother goddess Allat? The end of Ramadan celebration would then celebrate the goddess' birth. During fasting, it would then only be possible to eat and mate in the presence of the moon, i.e. Allat.
The goddess Allat had a nickname, or an additional title, Saba pronounced Shaybah, meaning midwife, or, "The one of ancient wisdom". Before Islam, the guardians of the Sanctuary were priestesses called "Bathi-Sheba", "daughters of the Ancient Midwife".

Many Westerners, especially midwives, have observed that the black stone case at the corner of the Kaaba has a vulva shape, with a baby's head coming out. The word Hajj (Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca) is derived from "Hack" which means friction in Arabic because there was a pagan ritual in which women rubbed their genitals on the black stone hoping to increase their fertility... They coated the stone with the blood of menstruation and walked around naked.

Etc...

Nostradamus, Thank you for the above very interesting information. So it seems, by the very subtle alteration in a
few words, meanings were changed. Over the space of a few generations the original meaning was lost and with it the feminine aspect, and the drive for domination proceeded in the East and West. It was a done deal.

 

[thorbiorn]

There was this author IQ al Rassooli of Iraqi origins who has written two books about Islam. While many books are written by people who see Islam from the outside, this author appears to have inside knowledge of Islamic and Arab culture. I somewhat prefer a more historic approach using alternative sources of the time, archeological artefacts including coins, but an analysis using the text of the Quran helps to explain what to expect from the section of society living in a non-islamic country that wish the laws of the land to be based on the Sharia.

Amazon.com

This book is based upon our YouTube series "Idiots Guide to Islam", of Q & A chapters that are listened to. It is fully complimented, with more details on our web site "www.inthenameofallah.org" The purpose of this book is to enlighten, step by step, an otherwise IGNORANT immense majority of humanity among both the so called Believers & Unbelievers about the FACTS & REALITY of the Cult of Muhammadan Islam. All references are based entirely upon the Arabic language of the Quran, Hadiths, Arab & Islamic histories. It analyses almost every concept, precept, thought, idea, expression and relevant verse of the Quran and contains extremely controversial and unusual statements and conclusions. By the time one has either read this book or listened to the series, one will become so knowledgeable on the Quran, Hadiths, Arab & 'Islamic' histories, to such an extent, that never again would one be fooled, deceived or misled regarding these subjects.

Amazon.com

Also there is a series of videos, 180+, about the topic of his books. In the following he explains how the black stone in the Kaaba came to be venerated including an answer to the question Who is Allah?

And there is an explanation of the meaning of knowledge in the Koran.
And in the next a discussion of the relation to the Torah and the New Testament.
Some parts of the his videos are not on Youtube, but they can be found on Idiot's guide to Islam It goes up to part 245.
The author is no doubt very knowledgeable about the text of the Koran and has plenty of quotes, his writings are perhaps more accessible if one wishes to catch the references as he quickly, but with emphasis and energy, reads from his manuscript. I could imagine the author has had a moment of realizing that what he was taught was wrong. On In The Name Of Allah - Terrorist Islam, As Spoken By 'Prophet' Muhammad's Quran there is an address to the reader that also explains what he intends to achieve; to undo programming with false ideas.

To those who profess the 'Religion of Islam', this site will seem offensive, untruthful, hatemongering, one sided and unfair.

All I would like the reader to do is to have the intellectual inquisitiveness, to persevere, to continue reading and investigating. God has given humanity the ability to think, to evaluate, to imagine, to compare and contrast and then to come to conclusions based upon knowledge. This is what differentiates the faculties of human beings from the other members of the Animal Kingdom.

Almost all human beings are 'indoctrinated' by their parents, their society and their culture to grow up believing what they have been taught. No human being chooses his or her beliefs at birth. We all,Muhammadans, Moussawis (Jews), Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Animists,etc. are the end product of our upbringing. None of us ever chose the ideas, beliefs, doctrines and traditions that we hold since we never had any choice in the matter. None of us are 'guilty' of who and what we end up as, whether Muslims, Jews, Christians or otherwise. We are all 'victims' of years of relentless and unremitting 'programming'.

Belief is not rational. It does not lend itself or tolerate questioning, investigation, modification or contradiction. It is an ALL or NOTHING state of mind. It is totally fixed in Time and Space.

Even upon maturity and with all the colossal amount of information that is available to the individual, from books, internet, TV, radio and all other means of information technology, the individual still finds it almost impossible to question one's core beliefs; even if the individual is not 'religious'. This is because our 'programming' has been so intense that we cannot easily look objectively upon our beliefs from the outside in.

The human mind even, among the most 'cultured' and 'intelligent' individuals, is infinitely complex and is able of having 'multiple and contradictory personalities' within the same body none of which knows that the 'other' exists.

Each individual, to start with, has at least two personalities: for good and for evil. Many humans can look at 'reality' eye ball to eye ball and yet can deny its existence; it refuses to accept it. Knowledge and intelligence are NOT a prerequisite for 'objective' and 'realistic' rational thinking.

The last part I do not understand; I would think that knowledge and intelligence certainly is a help for objective and rational thinking, but maybe it is not a prerequisite. One could say that before knowing and analyzing one needs to observe, and we can observe something we do not fully know. In this context one could say that objective and realistic rational thinking about the Koran, does not require that much knowledge or intelligence. If the Koran favours a flat earth, then most people could rationally think this is not true, but to know even that much of primary or middle school science, one would have to know something and be able to apply intelligence to reason and draw a conclusion.

To fend off critics the author invites people to prove him wrong, framed in such a way that nobody is likely to take the bait, even the strongest of fundamentalists.

If upon double- checking, investigating, comparing and contrasting the information here in with the records and information that are available to most literate human beings, and the reader finds fault, untruth, fabrication, alteration or deception anywhere, then please let him/her take up the
http://www.inthenameofallah.org/challenge.html
challenge and collect the reward. It is this simple

Within this website you will find the most accurate, and detailed analysis of the Quranic verses available. The author of this website has dedicated a lifetime of study to exposing the doctrines and falsehoods contained in Muhammadan Islam using the Quran itself as evidence.

How can one use the Quran itself as evidence? I could imagine it it by contrasting different statements in the Quran that contradict each other or that contradict what some Muslims claim the Quran says.

 

[mkrnhr]

The last part I do not understand; I would think that knowledge and intelligence certainly is a help for objective and rational thinking, but maybe it is not a prerequisite. One could say that before knowing and analyzing one needs to observe, and we can observe something we do not fully know. In this context one could say that objective and realistic rational thinking about the Koran, does not require that much knowledge or intelligence. If the Koran favours a flat earth, then most people could rationally think this is not true, but to know even that much of primary or middle school science, one would have to know something and be able to apply intelligence to reason and draw a conclusion.

Like everything else, there is good knowledge, and false knowledge. Same for intelligence. Lots of intelligent people employ their mental capacity to produce nonsense (for instance, neo atheists can be in this category). One can be intelligent and start from wrong premises to arrive to false conclusions. It's just one tool among others in the cognitive arsenal.

 

[thorbiorn]

Like everything else, there is good knowledge, and false knowledge. Same for intelligence. Lots of intelligent people employ their mental capacity to produce nonsense (for instance, neo atheists can be in this category). One can be intelligent and start from wrong premises to arrive to false conclusions. It's just one tool among others in the cognitive arsenal.

Thank you for your comment! If I continue with your explanation, then I would add that it helps to bridge the gap between not knowing and getting know if one adds a bit of curiosity. One needs to dare question a premise. The author that I referred to in my post did not question the history of the Quran as a text in the few audio-videos I listened to, but he does question the premise that the Quran is unfailing revelation. It is like he is saying: if we assume the text is what it is, then this and this and this can not be true, because of this and this and this. When I listened to the first video I posted, "Who is Allah" he says that "Ila" or "al-Ila is God", but Allah is a god, like Jupiter, Zeus, Aphrodite, Venus etc. He also says that Allah is related to the black stone of the Kaaba, the black stone was a meteorite that had been worshipped by the people in the area for centuries before the appearance of Islam. There is also the story in the Wiki, that it was stolen for 21 years "A significant clue to its nature is provided by an account of the Stone's recovery in 951 CE after it had been stolen 21 years earlier; according to a chronicler, the Stone was identified by its ability to float in water." What if it was only installed in 951 CE accompanied by a story that it had been lost.

The following is not related directly, but I would still like to share, as it maybe is a second mystery related to Mecca, although from a much more recent history, and the event gives an indication of how conservative Islam gained so much support from a country like Saudi Arabia. As I looked into this subject of Allah, the black stone at the Grand Mosque in Mecca it came to my attention that on November 20th 2019 it will be 40 years since there was The 1979 Grand Mosque Seizure One outcome was that:

Saudi King Khaled, however, did not react to the upheaval by cracking down on religious puritans in general, but by giving the ulama and religious conservatives more power over the next decade. He is thought to have believed that "the solution to the religious upheaval was simple: more religion."[14] First, photographs of women in newspapers were banned, then women on television. Cinemas and music shops were shut down. School curriculum was changed to provide many more hours of religious studies, eliminating classes on subjects like non-Islamic history. Gender segregation was extended "to the humblest coffee shop," and religious police became more assertive.

The only rebel to survive was a half brother of Osama Bin Laden whose family had a contract to renovate the mosque and had arranged for weapons to be transported into the compound using company trucks. The French Wiki claims:

According to Cooperative Research :

"In the 1960s, the brother of Osama Bin Laden, Mahrous Bin Laden joined a rebel group opposed to the saudi government. It is with his assistance, in 1979, that the rebels brought in arms at The Mecca using trucks belonging to the Bin Laden family. Five hundred rebels then became the Grand Mosque in Mecca (sic), the most holy place of Islam in its holiest city. They tried, but failed, to overthrow the saudi royal family. All the men involved were beheaded by the following, except Mahrous. He is even released from prison because of ties to the Bin Ladens and the royal family of Saud.

Considering the policy changes in Saudi Arabia, following the attack on the Grand Mosque in Mecca, and their importance for the spread of radical Islam, this violent occupation was a rather significant event. 1979 was also the year that the war in Afghanistan gained pace with Sovjet military aid to the lokal government, and wasn't there a Bin Laden involved with fighting for Islam in Afghanistan? Indeed there was:

As well as money, Muslim countries provided thousands of volunteer fighters known as "Afghan Arabs", who wished to wage jihad against the atheist communists. Notable among them was a young Saudi named Osama bin Laden, whose Arab group eventually evolved into al-Qaeda.[149][150][151]

Strange how these people show up again and again, as if by coincidence?

 

[bozadi]

Was Iyas ibn Qabisah al-Ta'i of Iraq the person on whom Muhammad the Prophet modeled? This guy thinks so.

 

[thorbiorn]

Many Westerners, especially midwives, have observed that the black stone case at the corner of the Kaaba has a vulva shape, with a baby's head coming out. [...]

Below are a few pictures from an article in the Mail Online. The baby head is of an abstract kind, if that is even enough to justify the claim that there is one to begin with. One wonders how it is made to begin with.

High resolution photos of the ancient Black Stone at the heart of Mecca’s holy Kabba have been revealed for the first time by the Saudi Arabian government

• New images of the Black Stone took more than 50 hours to capture and develop
• Relic is said to date back to the time of Adam and Eve, set inside Grand Mosque
• Stone broken into fragments which are cemented into silver frame in the Kabba

By FAITH RIDLER FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 00:41 GMT, 8 May 2021 | UPDATED: 15:46 GMT, 8 May 2021
High resolution photographs of the ancient Black Stone at the heart of Mecca's holy Kabba have been revealed for the first time by Saudi Arabia.

Astonishing images of the al-Hajar al-Aswad, said to date back to the time of Adam and Eve, were unveiled by the General Presidency for the Affairs of the Saudi Grand Mosque on Monday.

They took more than 50 hours to capture and develop, with the General Presidency working with the Two Holy Mosques' agency to take some 1,050 photographs in a seven-hour session.

Astonishing images of the al-Hajar al-Aswad (above) were unveiled by the General Presidency for the Affairs of the Saudi Grand Mosque on Monday

Stone said to date back to Adam and Eve may have fallen from space​

The Black Stone has often be described as a meteorite, and Islamic tradition holds that it fell from heaven as a guide for Adam and Eve to build an altar, which became the first temple.​

It is widely believed that it was originally pure white, but has since changed colour because of the sins of the people who touch it.​

​

The Islamic relic has long been associated with the Kaaba. According to tradition, it was set intact into the Kaaba’s wall by the prophet Muhammad in 605 CE.​

It plays a central role in the ritual of istilam, where pilgrims kiss the Black Stone or touch it with their hands.​

The revered Islamic relic, thought to be a meteorite, is set in the eastern corner of the Kabba at the centre of the Grand Mosque in Mecca.

According to tradition, the stone was set into the building's wall by the Islamic prophet Mohammed in 605 CE.

The Black Stone has since been broken into fragments which are cemented into a silver frame in the side of the Kabba.

New images of the ancient stone were taken using a technique called focus stacking, which combines several images with different focus points, according to CNN.

The relic appears a reddish brown colour despite its name, with scattered grey.

Afifi al-Akiti, a fellow in Islamic studies at the University of Oxford, said the photographs are significant because 'in a sense this is unprecedented.'

He added: 'One sees that it's not actually black, for example... As I understand it, it's the first time there is a magnified digital photo of the stone and one can see the stone up close and personal.

'In the Muslim tradition, this is considered to be a holy relic, but reason plays a major role in the Muslim tradition.

'So while it is unprecedented to see a picture of the stone, I think Muslims are down to Earth and science plays a major role in the religion'.

Mohammed is said to have received his first revelations in Mecca in the early 7th century, not long after it is claimed he placed the Black Stone in the Kabba.


They took more than 50 hours to capture and develop, with the General Presidency working with the Two Holy Mosques' agency to take some 1,050 photographs in a seven-hour session

On other photos, it appears as if the stone is hollowed out by the touching. See this video.

Perhaps there are new theories about what the stone really consists of based on the detailed images. Here are some ideas from the time before the new photos were taken:
What is the Black Stone of Mecca? What is the type of Black Stone?
January 11, 2018
Listing these references:

Wikipedia: Black Stone
Crystalinks: The Black Stone of Mecca
About Islam: Obscurity of Al-Hajar Al-Aswad
Meteoritical Society: Kaaba Stone: Not A Meteorite, Probably an AGATE

 

[mkrnhr]

It's funny that they are still searching around the actual Mecca, which didn't exist in the 7th century, still relying on the 9-10th century legends composed by the Abassid dynasties, and ignoring the possibility that the stone may have come from somewhere else when the Kaaba has been built, probably as a replica of the holy of holies of Jerusalem or something like that.
The black stone has been stolen at some point by the Muatazila group and the pieces have been given back after it got broken or destroyed. Who knows where it comes from originally. Given that what we call today Islam started in the 7th century as a Judaico-Christian/Apocalyptic movement that was later re-codified for the needs of the empire, there is a possibility that its origins may be somewhere in the regions where it all began, between actual Syria/Palestine and actual Iraq. A funny legend about the black stone is that when it "descended", it was white, and through time it became black because it absorbed parts of the sins of humanity.