The Odyssey - Manual of Secret Teachings?

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Just finished it last night. I haven't been reading this thread until I finished so now I'm looking forward to catching up.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Thanks Laura for starting this group reading project!

I haven't yet read the Odyssey, but I'm really looking forward to it - I'm still reading the preparatory material in this thread.

To the German members: if you read this book in German, which edition do you read, what is most recommendable? I'd rather like to have this as a book, not on screen.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Enaid said:
Thanks Laura for starting this group reading project!

I haven't yet read the Odyssey, but I'm really looking forward to it - I'm still reading the preparatory material in this thread.

To the German members: if you read this book in German, which edition do you read, what is most recommendable? I'd rather like to have this as a book, not on screen.

I'm currently reading an edition from zweitausendeins with a translation from Johann Heinrich Voss, but this book is huge and heavy, cause it covers also Iliad and has the original greek version also included. So I'm planning to buy the "Reclam" edition, cause this book I could take with me.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Should I have a good basis in mythology to catch well what the book tells?
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Galaxia2002 said:
Should I have a good basis in mythology to catch well what the book tells?

Edith Hamiton's Greek Mythology is a classic in the field. She tells all the stories right from the earliest myths in a clear, entertaining manner. You should be able to pick up a copy at any good used book store. It would help you keep all those gods, demi-gods and nymphs straight!
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Thank you herondancer! but I will pick up one in spanish because the issue is complicated, in english I am gonna get crazy.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Otto Steen Due in a companion to his Danish translation from 2003 (Ledsager til Homers Odyssé pages 10-12, Gyldendals bogklubber) writes about the structure that it can be perceived as 2x3x4 or that each half can be considered as divided into three sections of four songs which pair up with the songs in the other half. He writes that there are various theories about the origin of this structure. One holds that it is due to Alexandrian philologists, another suggests it is because the writer was using a newly acquired alphabet that had 24 letters and a third, which has been proposed by Minna Skafte Jensen that the structure can be traced to the writer Onomakritos who received the dictate of the poem from the singer Kynaithos at a Panathenaia festival in Athens towards 500 B.C.
The division according Due is as follows, and here I have tried to find the English spellings by comparing with Where Troy Once Stood by Wilkens (2009):
First pair of tetrads: 1-4/13-16
Athene appears to Telemachos the son./ Athene appears to Odysseus the father.
The violence against hospitality by the suitors./ The hospitality of Eumaios and here I would add the nonviolence against hospitality by Odysseus
Telemachos travels to Pylos./ Telemachos travels from Pylos.
The suitors plan to get rid of Telemachos./ The plan of the suitors is frustrated.
The desire of Telemachos to see the suitors gone is unrealistic./The desire of Telemachos to see the suitors gone becomes realistic
Second pair of tetrads: 5-8/17-20
Contrast: The reception of Odysseus by Alcinous in Scheria./ The reception he gets in his own land
Parallel between the tetrads in the gradual progress made by Odysseus: In the second tetrad from being a naked survivor of a wrecked ship he rises to become a highly honored guest among the Phaeacians / In the fifth tetrad Odysseus disguised as a beggar obtains authority in his own land.
In both tetrads Odysseus lives incognito.
In both Odysseus gains honor as a sportsman.
Third pair of tetrads: 9-12/21-24
Both begin by the revealing of the identity of Odysseus.
In both Odysseus wins a queen, first queen Arete later his own queen, Penelope.
In both he recounts his adventures
In both there are descriptions of the underworld, the world of the dead,
In the first he meets his dead mother in the last he meets his still living father.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Gawan said:
Enaid said:
Thanks Laura for starting this group reading project!

I haven't yet read the Odyssey, but I'm really looking forward to it - I'm still reading the preparatory material in this thread.

To the German members: if you read this book in German, which edition do you read, what is most recommendable? I'd rather like to have this as a book, not on screen.

I'm currently reading an edition from zweitausendeins with a translation from Johann Heinrich Voss, but this book is huge and heavy, cause it covers also Iliad and has the original greek version also included. So I'm planning to buy the "Reclam" edition, cause this book I could take with me.

Thanks Gawan. I had also thought about buying the one from Reclam, but wasn't sure about the quality of the translation.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Myrddin Awyr said:
The other is the "do" tells a very different thing as like I wrote earlier that a mountain atop the city may equal an asteroid/comet impact with a sunken ship equaling to a flood, and Zeus gave a "go-ahead" on both destructions for the Phaiakians (who are "more nearer to the gods") due to their breaking of a divine authority (not "respecting" Poseidon). And, the two other destructions were on the crew/suitors who are not "nearer to the gods." Two contained apocalypses with one full local apocalypse.

I have Polish version translated by Lucjan Siemieński and the passage you refer to doesn't speak about destruction of the city by the way of the mountain but that Poseidon will enclose the city within a big mountain range and Zeus likes this idea very much.

Edited: spelling
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Laura said:
Slow Motion Mary said:
*Parabola is a quarterly digest that focuses on themes common to different spiritual traditions. You'll find Christianity, Judaism, Sufism, Buddhism, etc., as well as book reviews.

I don't have much truck with Parabola - there's politics behind them.

Would this be the same with translations that use hexameter?
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I did in the 9Th Grade (required), years ago and than again in the college (on my own).
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Just catching up here – fascinating!

Have the translated E.V. Rieu version that has been sitting in the queue for what seems like years, but downloaded, as was suggested, the Butler PDF version. Thank you Laura for giving the context to Odyssey in your prior posts, which will make reading it now much more of a connective endeavor.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Just throwing this in the pot:

I'm currently reading Louden's latest, Homer's Odyssey and the Near East, and its fifth chapter expands a discussion on Kalypso and the function of the Book 5 which was the chapter five of his first book. Too many fives, I know.

Anyway, Louden discussed the parallels between the environment of Ogygia (Kalypso's island) in the Odyssey and of Eden in the Old Testament:

page 124 - 127 said:
When the Odyssey brings Odysseus onstage after a four-book focus on Telemachos, he has no connection to the circumstances with which the poem has so far been concerned (the crisis the suitors cause in Ithaka for Telemachos and Penelope). He is off the map, as far as normal human existence is concerned. To insert Odysseus into its plot the Odyssey draws on three overlapping genres of myth. In placing Odysseus in a paradise where he could remain forever and be immortal, the Odyssey employs key motifs from creation myth. In his relationship with Kalypso, the Odyssey draws upon the mythic genre of the hero's involvement with a goddess who offers to make him her consort, as Gilgamesh depicts in his encounter with Ishtar. But Book 5 combines these two types with a third genre of myth, a hero's blessed afterlife in a paradise set at the ends of earth, to which the Odyssey briefly alludes in Menelaus' encounter with Proteus (Od. 4.561-9). All three genres focus on the possibility of the hero becoming immortal. The first and third types overlap in their paradise setting, which by definition is cut off from usual mortal existence.

KALYPSO AND OGYGIA, PARADISE AND CREATION MYTH

Since epic can incorporate any kind of myth, it is not surprising that the Odyssey draws on creation myth for several elements of Book 5. In the Deception of Zeus, Book 14 of Iliad also incorporates elements of creation myth, as several commentators have shown. The background story involving Okeanos and Tethys that Hera tells Zeus draws on cosmogonic and theogonic creation myths. Gilgamesh incorporates extensive motifs from creation myth in its account of the creation of Enkidu. The goddess Aruru fashions Enkidu from clay, creating him in the form of an adult male (Gilg. I. ii), just as Yahweh does Adam. Also rather like Adam, Enkidu lives a pastoral existence, associating and able to communicate with animals. While Tigay (2002: 194-7) discusses the theory that Gilgamesh here draws upon the Atrahasis, the correspondences are strictly generic resemblance, and therefore it may be that Gilgamesh draws on the idea of creation myth, rather than on the specific instance that is the Atrahasis (but see Carr 1996: 215-16, 242-5 on how the Atrahasis probably influenced the Genesis creation myth). The examples already noted illustrate that elements of creation myth can occur in myths set in later times.

The depiction of Odysseus in the first half of Book 5 employs standard features of creation myth also found in the myths of Enkidu and Adam. Ogygia is commonly held to be paradise (Crane 1988: 15: "An island paradise on the edge of the world"), with a careful sense of design (Austin 1975: 150: "her landscape has idyllic perfection"). Even Hermes stops to admire the beauties of Ogygia when he first arrives (Od. 5.73-6). Austin has perhaps best summarized Ogygia's paradise features (149):
[T]here is an encircling forest, flourishing with alders, black poplars, and fragrant cypresses...not simply a grove but a grove of three kinds of tree, not simply birds but three kinds of birds, a meadow of two kinds of plants, the smell of two kinds of burning wood.
His emphasis on the trees accords well with the description of Eden, "The Lord God planted a garden in Eden...made trees grow up from the ground, every kind of tree pleasing to the eye and good for food" (Gen. 2:8-9). The four fountains on Ogygia (Od. 5.70-1) offer an unexpected parallel to Eden's four rivers (Gen. 2:10-14). Eden's four rivers are probably to be thought of as supplying water to all parts of the garden ("There was a river flowing from Eden to water the garden" Gen. 2:10), much as S. West conjectures of Kalypso's four fountains (1988: 263), "The four springs presumably water every quarter of the island." Though Odysseus has parents, and grew up in the world of mortals, the Odyssey first presents him as an adult male in paradise, much as with Adam, and Enkidu. By first depicting Odysseus in such an environment, Book 5 in a sense "creates" Odysseus within the Odyssey. In the Odyssey's opening divine council Athena calls Ogygia the "navel (omphalos) of the sea" (Od. 1.50). Though commentators usually argue omphalos here has some figurative meaning (e.g., Chantraine [1990] regards it as meaning "center"), it is cognate with Latin umbilicus and English "navel," and if taken more literally, reinforces a paradise and creation modality.

[SNIP]

Leaving the omphalos, Odysseus cuts the umbilical cord that ties him to paradise and to a divine, non-aging life centered around Kalypso. Ogygia, under Kalypso, has womb-like associations; Odysseus' departure from it draws on metaphors for birth.

I can't help but immediately see a "present-time" journey of Odysseus throughout the Odyssey to which he actually went from a Paradise (Ogygia) to a Semi-Paradise (Skheria) to a Mortal Existence (Ithaka).

Personally, I did not see Ogygia as a "paradise," just not the place where you would want to be (considering that Odysseus was being raped by a goddess for seven years and being trapped against his will with no hope to escape) despite its beauty. I see it as "a place of no possibilities" and without any access to other realms. The place is ageless/frozen and passive. We first see Odysseus crying on the beach, yearning for a return to home. He was not happy there, even if it's a paradise.

This island is an extension of Kalypso herself. The meaning of her name (kalyptō) is "to conceal" as discussed by Louden (1999: 114). Basically, she is "The Concealer" and she was concealing/hiding Odysseus from other realms, even from Athena. Louden also pointed out that the relationship between Kalypso and Odysseus is the only relationship in all relationships between Odysseus and other women in the Odyssey was not presented from beginning to end, which may suggest a non-linear dynamic.

As mkrnhr pointed out earlier, it was only the action of Telemachus to search for his father that signals to the gods to release Odysseus by ordering Hermes, the only god who is able to cross boundaries/realms, to Ogygia. In short, Telemachus' active action releases Odysseus from an "Unseen" place, initiating a beginning of a journey to reunification.

During his imprisonment in Ogygia, Odysseus never consumed the "Foods of the Gods" (Nectar/Ambrosia), which would have made him an immortal and he would lose any chances of returning home. And, he rejects Kalypso's marriage proposal which would have him bound to the island forever. To both, he rejects to which he remains true to his aim of return/reuniting. He never knew about the suitors eating up his own house until his arrival in Ithaka. His only focus was only on returning home. In Skheria, he rejects a marriage proposal to Nausicaa, which would have bound him to a semi-paradise environment. Again, he stayed true to his aim from paradise to semi-paradise before returning finally home to a mortal existence.

The other thing that I have found interesting (or it may be nothing at all) is that when the crew was killed and their ship destroyed, it was done by the immortal means (thunderbolts/brimstone) and the Phaiakians' ship was sunken also by the immortal means while the killings of the suitors was only done by the mortal means. That the destruction of the crew's ship sent Odysseus off to a paradise environment then to a semi-paradise environment before returning to Ithaka but the destruction of the Phaiakians' ship ended the imagery of the "paradise" environments. That the overt actions of the gods can open and close the doorways to such environment? Ah, just thinking out loud here.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Myrddin Awyr said:
Just throwing this in the pot:

<Snip>

I can't help but immediately see a "present-time" journey of Odysseus throughout the Odyssey to which he actually went from a Paradise (Ogygia) to a Semi-Paradise (Skheria) to a Mortal Existence (Ithaka).

Personally, I did not see Ogygia as a "paradise," just not the place where you would want to be (considering that Odysseus was being raped by a goddess for seven years and being trapped against his will with no hope to escape) despite its beauty. I see it as "a place of no possibilities" and without any access to other realms. The place is ageless/frozen and passive. We first see Odysseus crying on the beach, yearning for a return to home. He was not happy there, even if it's a paradise.

This island is an extension of Kalypso herself. The meaning of her name (kalyptō) is "to conceal" as discussed by Louden (1999: 114). Basically, she is "The Concealer" and she was concealing/hiding Odysseus from other realms, even from Athena. Louden also pointed out that the relationship between Kalypso and Odysseus is the only relationship in all relationships between Odysseus and other women in the Odyssey was not presented from beginning to end, which may suggest a non-linear dynamic.

As mkrnhr pointed out earlier, it was only the action of Telemachus to search for his father that signals to the gods to release Odysseus by ordering Hermes, the only god who is able to cross boundaries/realms, to Ogygia. In short, Telemachus' active action releases Odysseus from an "Unseen" place, initiating a beginning of a journey to reunification.

During his imprisonment in Ogygia, Odysseus never consumed the "Foods of the Gods" (Nectar/Ambrosia), which would have made him an immortal and he would lose any chances of returning home. And, he rejects Kalypso's marriage proposal which would have him bound to the island forever. To both, he rejects to which he remains true to his aim of return/reuniting. He never knew about the suitors eating up his own house until his arrival in Ithaka. His only focus was only on returning home. In Skheria, he rejects a marriage proposal to Nausicaa, which would have bound him to a semi-paradise environment. Again, he stayed true to his aim from paradise to semi-paradise before returning finally home to a mortal existence.

<snip>

I can see where Laura is going with the Hyper-dimensional realities aspect of the book, given the above. The idea of imprisoning the hero for eternity, reads like quite a few descriptions in the transcripts. I was trying to find some snippets of a 4D STS playground bbbbbbh which they never wanted to leave, couldn't find it. Nevertheless, I found similar.

So, there's these couple of transcripts included in Pathway to the Light Pole Shift Part 3: The New Jerusalem.

What do the Cassiopaeans tell us this agenda is?

C's: Lord of Serpent promises its followers infinite power which they must seek infinite knowledge to gain, for which they pledge allegiance infinitely, which they possess for all eternity, so long as they find infinite wisdom, for which they search for all infinity.
Q: (L) Well, that is a round robin... a circle you can't get out of!
A: And therein you have the deception! Remember, those who seek to serve self with supreme power, are doomed only to serve others who seek to serve self, and can only see that which they want to see.

Q: So, we have a bunch of people who are playing with mathematics, and playing with higher knowledge, basically as a keep busy activity to distract them at the human level from the fact that they are being manipulated at a higher level. Is this what is going on? Or, do they consciously know what they are doing? Is it a distraction or a conscious choice?
A: Both.

Q: (L) I had an idea that when we think hard, meditate and make conscious choices, then more universe is created along this path, than along the other [path of manipulated choices]... so that you're balancing the good universe choice creations, making more of them, than there are of the mindless, thoughtless, just choosing because you don't know any better... (T) Well, isn't that what the lizards are doing? (L) Yes, it is... (T) They're manipulating [the universe] to make negative. But, they can never make more than there is, more negative than positive, because the universe is constantly seeking balance. So, every place they make a negative, there's some place else that becomes a positive. You can never make more. You can try.
A: True.
Q: (T) Although, they're working on the false premise that they can do this. (L) 'Wishful thinking.'
A: No, they are working on that false premise that they can seal realms into "4th" density and 3rd, 2nd, 1st STS for eternity.
Q: (T) They don't care if it's physical or not. They're in 4th. They just want to seal them off and keep them STS to feed off of them. (J) Ohhh, they want their own little garden! They want their own little 'suck' garden. A: "Eternity" is the key word there. It is where the wishful thinking comes into play.

There's also a bit with the Libra/Scorpio deal. Libra is blindfolded...she doesn't see (Kalypso also seems to have roots according to wiki via Etymologicum Magnum, her name means καλύπτουσα το διανοούμενον, i.e. "concealing the knowledge"). So, there's this snippet of another transcript The Matrix, DNA, Illusions of Our World, and the Alchemy of Transformation

Q: In the same vein, I have noticed that there are two classes of arachnids. There are scorpions and there are spiders. The zodiac was changed by taking the pincers away from the Scorpion and creating out of them the sign of Libra. This was done at about the same time as the beginning of Christianity and the ostensible final destruction of all the old Goddess worship.This was probably formalized through the occult traditions of Kaballah. This image of Libra is that of a woman holding a balance scales, usually blindfolded. Now, in trying to figure out who has on what color hat, if there is such a thing, I have come to a tentative conclusion that the spider, or spinner of webs, is the Rosicrucian encampment, and that the Scorpion represents the seeker of wisdom... because, in fact, the word for Scorpio comes from the same root as that which means to pierce or unveil. Therefore, the Scorpion is also Perseus, per Ziu, or 'for God.' And the Rosicrucians are the 'other side,' so to speak. Can you elaborate on this for me? Or comment?
A: What a tangled web we spin, when we must not let you in.
Q: Another derivation of the word root of Scorpio is 'skopos,' or 'to see.' You said that the human race was seeded on a planet in the constellation Scorpio, and, therefore, when the zodiac was set up and the clues were laid out, it seems to me that the insertion of the sign of Libra was symbolic of the move to take power away from human beings, to take their hands away, to prevent them from seeing, to make them defenseless. Is this imagery close?
A: On track.

And the above is much the same as what Kalyspso was attempting with Odysseus.
 
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I was just thinking too about possible parallels between Odysseus and Jacob of the bible, both having similar "thigh wounds" and then there is the olive tree symbolism, which appears to be of Hebrew origin.
 
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