The Odyssey - Manual of Secret Teachings?
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Path27
The Force is Strong With This One
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!
After reading William Hansen’s Classical Mythology: A Guide to the Mythical World of the Greeks and Romans, I have some comments and questions about the Olympian pantheon. My biggest question after reading this thread is whether I’m taking the information too literally. I know that Laura has spent a lot of time focusing on the more general hyperdimensional dynamics of the Odyssey – STO/STS interplay through theoxeny, the way it relates to the General Law, and so on. So this might be going in the wrong direction, and if it is I hope I'll be corrected.
One of the things that I remembered when reading this book was this:
Since there are traditional stories of divine pantheons all over the world, of which the Olympic pantheon is just one example, I’m wondering if it’s a mythic holdover from a time when 4th density was really in more active contact with people here on earth, and if these pantheons were essentially ‘teams’ of entities which were tasked with getting ‘Stone Age’ man organized into structured societies to suit their own purposes -- more or less taking hunter-gatherers around the world and setting them on a trajectory that would eventually lead to what we know as modern society (a big collective farm, for all intents and purposes).
First, from Hansen’s book, here are some descriptions of the mythic landscape that seem to have a hyperdimensional undertone:
The next part seems almost like a checklist of 4D features, particularly when you take into account both the physical as well as the experiential properties of 4th density:
Similarly with this section:
This is summarized in the following:
There’s also a section on time and chronology in Hansen’s book:
In line with what mkrnhr said here, what this seems to suggest is that the Olympian pantheon was an organized team, headed by Zeus, which was in charge of a literal form of what we might consider nation-building – organizing hunter-gatherer humans into agrarian, urban societies which would be detrimental to the physical, emotional and psychological well-being of humans, but beneficial to the gods. Not all that different from how we treat cattle today. And there are strong similarities between some of the members of the pantheons across the globe, implying similar, near-simultaneous projects.
The Graeco-Roman and Germanic pantheons are very similar, for example – take Zeus and Odin:
And the list of comparisons can be continued:
One question is whether these are two different but parallel traditions which ultimately describe the same group of gods, or whether they describe two different groups of gods with similar roles and directives.
Gods with similar offices can be found all around the world, though, these being some examples (taken from Parallel Myths by J.F. Bierlein):
In keeping with this idea, this is an excerpt from Bioarchaeology of Southeast Asia (edited by Marc Oxenham and Nancy Tayles):
There are also other mythological examples of human interaction with gods, such as in these stories from Globalizing the Prehistory of Japan by Ann Kumar:
The above also touches on the idea that there was actual sexual intercourse between the gods and men, resulting in the demigods, a hybrid group which was ultimately mortal but assumed some super-human characteristics. This possibly ties in to the following:
From the same book:
So maybe what all this suggests is that the plan of the ‘gods’ required a two-step process. We could speculate that what they had to work with in the beginning were groups of hunter-gatherers all over the world who had a religious understanding of the world that included shamanism in a comparatively pure form and a worldview that saw a Creator inherent in creation, an eternal soul with a cyclic physical existence, and various other things (such as an awareness of a dualism that we would express as STO vs STS) that were inherited by groups like the Gnostics and the Cathars, even if in a somewhat distorted form.
In the first stage, they had to reveal themselves around the world in small 'task forces', if you will, in order to ‘civilize’ hunter-gatherers, with each ‘god’ assigned a particular craft to teach such as agriculture, viticulture, metal-working, and so forth, creating established urban societies which would then self-propagate (probably with some ‘divine’ help) across the globe through conquest and diffusion. At this stage, having to literally teach people these skills hands-on and in effect hiding in plain sight, there was no way to avoid giving a polytheistic impression to their human subordinates, who probably also projected human qualities onto the gods they observed which weren’t necessarily accurate. If this is correct, you could predict correlations between cultures with pantheons like those listed above, sites where agriculture originated (rice, maize, wheat, etc), and early megalithic structures, particularly those with some kind of religious cult focus. A generation of demi-gods was also born at this time, the result of the sexual relations between gods and men, and often placed into positions of power in the newly-emerging societies.
However, once this was sufficiently accomplished, they were free to retreat into the (largely invisible) background so that the second stage could commence: the introduction of monotheism, which would overlay a framework of religious and psychological control onto the physical institutions which had already been established. The original pantheons weren’t erased from history, but as time went on, they retreated into the backdrop of myth, and members of the pantheons were also reinterpreted as things like angels and saints on a case-by-case basis (perhaps this was when proxies like the Grays and projections like ‘saints’ and the modern MIB began to be used in full force). This is expressed in a book, The Medieval Empire of the Israelites by Robert Grishin and Vladmir Melamed (members of the Fromenko school of revised chronology – it’s actually a good book to read to get a feel for Fomenko’s work since it’s more compact than any of his own books and focuses on a single subject):
Stories like the Iliad and the Odyssey would have occurred during the transition between the first and the second stage. Where we stand right now in history might be seen as a third and final stage, where the strings are pulled together into what some people refer to as the New World Order (a unified farm with a single, centralized hierarchy).
Getting back to the Odyssey, one thing I’m struggling to figure out is the case of someone like Athena, who was clearly part of one of these pantheons but generally portrayed as a protagonist. However, as it’s said, history is written by the victors, and Athena was a god on the side of the victors of the Trojan War (in fact, Imam Wilkens suggests that Homer may have even been the grandson of Odysseus himself, a direct descendant of the victorious party). The biggest problem I have with seeing Athena as a genuine ‘good guy’ is that, like the rest of the pantheon of which she was apart, she took active part in the affairs of humans, playing favorites in a battle which (unlike Odysseus’s slaying of the suitors) doesn’t seem to have had any real moral justification – arguably a free-will violation, at the very least. So I don’t know what to think about that.
After reading William Hansen’s Classical Mythology: A Guide to the Mythical World of the Greeks and Romans, I have some comments and questions about the Olympian pantheon. My biggest question after reading this thread is whether I’m taking the information too literally. I know that Laura has spent a lot of time focusing on the more general hyperdimensional dynamics of the Odyssey – STO/STS interplay through theoxeny, the way it relates to the General Law, and so on. So this might be going in the wrong direction, and if it is I hope I'll be corrected.
One of the things that I remembered when reading this book was this:
8/20/01 said:
Since there are traditional stories of divine pantheons all over the world, of which the Olympic pantheon is just one example, I’m wondering if it’s a mythic holdover from a time when 4th density was really in more active contact with people here on earth, and if these pantheons were essentially ‘teams’ of entities which were tasked with getting ‘Stone Age’ man organized into structured societies to suit their own purposes -- more or less taking hunter-gatherers around the world and setting them on a trajectory that would eventually lead to what we know as modern society (a big collective farm, for all intents and purposes).
First, from Hansen’s book, here are some descriptions of the mythic landscape that seem to have a hyperdimensional undertone:
The next part seems almost like a checklist of 4D features, particularly when you take into account both the physical as well as the experiential properties of 4th density:
Similarly with this section:
This is summarized in the following:
There’s also a section on time and chronology in Hansen’s book:
In line with what mkrnhr said here, what this seems to suggest is that the Olympian pantheon was an organized team, headed by Zeus, which was in charge of a literal form of what we might consider nation-building – organizing hunter-gatherer humans into agrarian, urban societies which would be detrimental to the physical, emotional and psychological well-being of humans, but beneficial to the gods. Not all that different from how we treat cattle today. And there are strong similarities between some of the members of the pantheons across the globe, implying similar, near-simultaneous projects.
The Graeco-Roman and Germanic pantheons are very similar, for example – take Zeus and Odin:
And the list of comparisons can be continued:
One question is whether these are two different but parallel traditions which ultimately describe the same group of gods, or whether they describe two different groups of gods with similar roles and directives.
Gods with similar offices can be found all around the world, though, these being some examples (taken from Parallel Myths by J.F. Bierlein):
In keeping with this idea, this is an excerpt from Bioarchaeology of Southeast Asia (edited by Marc Oxenham and Nancy Tayles):
There are also other mythological examples of human interaction with gods, such as in these stories from Globalizing the Prehistory of Japan by Ann Kumar:
The above also touches on the idea that there was actual sexual intercourse between the gods and men, resulting in the demigods, a hybrid group which was ultimately mortal but assumed some super-human characteristics. This possibly ties in to the following:
8/8/95 said:
4/8/00 said:
From the same book:
So maybe what all this suggests is that the plan of the ‘gods’ required a two-step process. We could speculate that what they had to work with in the beginning were groups of hunter-gatherers all over the world who had a religious understanding of the world that included shamanism in a comparatively pure form and a worldview that saw a Creator inherent in creation, an eternal soul with a cyclic physical existence, and various other things (such as an awareness of a dualism that we would express as STO vs STS) that were inherited by groups like the Gnostics and the Cathars, even if in a somewhat distorted form.
In the first stage, they had to reveal themselves around the world in small 'task forces', if you will, in order to ‘civilize’ hunter-gatherers, with each ‘god’ assigned a particular craft to teach such as agriculture, viticulture, metal-working, and so forth, creating established urban societies which would then self-propagate (probably with some ‘divine’ help) across the globe through conquest and diffusion. At this stage, having to literally teach people these skills hands-on and in effect hiding in plain sight, there was no way to avoid giving a polytheistic impression to their human subordinates, who probably also projected human qualities onto the gods they observed which weren’t necessarily accurate. If this is correct, you could predict correlations between cultures with pantheons like those listed above, sites where agriculture originated (rice, maize, wheat, etc), and early megalithic structures, particularly those with some kind of religious cult focus. A generation of demi-gods was also born at this time, the result of the sexual relations between gods and men, and often placed into positions of power in the newly-emerging societies.
However, once this was sufficiently accomplished, they were free to retreat into the (largely invisible) background so that the second stage could commence: the introduction of monotheism, which would overlay a framework of religious and psychological control onto the physical institutions which had already been established. The original pantheons weren’t erased from history, but as time went on, they retreated into the backdrop of myth, and members of the pantheons were also reinterpreted as things like angels and saints on a case-by-case basis (perhaps this was when proxies like the Grays and projections like ‘saints’ and the modern MIB began to be used in full force). This is expressed in a book, The Medieval Empire of the Israelites by Robert Grishin and Vladmir Melamed (members of the Fromenko school of revised chronology – it’s actually a good book to read to get a feel for Fomenko’s work since it’s more compact than any of his own books and focuses on a single subject):
Stories like the Iliad and the Odyssey would have occurred during the transition between the first and the second stage. Where we stand right now in history might be seen as a third and final stage, where the strings are pulled together into what some people refer to as the New World Order (a unified farm with a single, centralized hierarchy).
Getting back to the Odyssey, one thing I’m struggling to figure out is the case of someone like Athena, who was clearly part of one of these pantheons but generally portrayed as a protagonist. However, as it’s said, history is written by the victors, and Athena was a god on the side of the victors of the Trojan War (in fact, Imam Wilkens suggests that Homer may have even been the grandson of Odysseus himself, a direct descendant of the victorious party). The biggest problem I have with seeing Athena as a genuine ‘good guy’ is that, like the rest of the pantheon of which she was apart, she took active part in the affairs of humans, playing favorites in a battle which (unlike Odysseus’s slaying of the suitors) doesn’t seem to have had any real moral justification – arguably a free-will violation, at the very least. So I don’t know what to think about that.
Zadius Sky
The Living Force
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!
Throwing this in the pot:
I just read a number of essays in Spring 2011 issue of College Literature (a scholarly journal), which focuses on Odyssey, Book 19, and Penelope's "interview" with beggar-disguised Odysseus. Apparently, there's a debate centering around whether or not Penelope recognize the beggar as her husband before the "recognition scene" between Penelope and her husband in Book 23. There's a question that as a result of the "interview" with the beggar, she plans for a bow contest that led to a downfall of the suitors - that why at this point in time would she made a bow contest being held if she doe not know that her husband's back (one of the examples, anyway).
John Vlahos, who made an argument that Penelope did recognized the beggar as her husband, making Book 19 as the "early" recognition scene. In the above journal issue, there's a number of scholars writing in a response to Vlahos' defense of the early recognition, including Bruce Louden and his 25-page article, "Is There Early Recognition between Penelope and Odysseus?; Book 19 in the Larger Context of the Odyssey" (not inclusive in either of his books). Louden is rejecting the early recognition scene by arguing that the bigger context of the Odyssey repeatedly shows all individuals, including Circe, were not able to recognize Odysseus when he appeared before them.
Reading through Louden's article made me to notice a few things:
This brought me to a thinking that if Odysseus is considered to be a "Higher Self," we would not recognize it unless Athena directs it so. That he is near, but we won't recognize him until we're ready, so to speak.
It was Athena who directs Penelope away from or dissociates her from seeing the reaction of her maid, Eurykleia, after recognizing the beggar as Odysseus, preventing a recognition scene because it seems that Penelope would not be taking a part in aiding Odysseus in slaying the suitors, but she did plan for it. As mkrnhr pointed out, Penelope may be seen as an inner emotional aspect which would suggest that emotions can play a role preceding the destruction of the suitors but doesn't take a part in it.
During the "interview" between Penelope and beggar-disguised Odysseus in Book 19, she relate a dream to him (of an eagle killing geese) and then mentioned the "gates of horn and ivory," which interests me:
From above, a Gate of Horn associates with truth while a Gate of Ivory associates with lies/deceit. I just finished reading Benjamin Haller's 2009 article in Classical Philology entitled "The Gates of Horn and Ivory in Odyssey 19: Penelope's Call for Deeds, Not Words," which gives another interpretation on the "dream speech" (Haller agrees with Vlahos on a possibility of an early recognition scene between Penelope and Odysseus):
This makes me wonder that since the Gate of Horn, associated with truth/seeing, represents the bow of Odysseus, and that bow in turn as being used to destroy the suitors, would that simplify/symbolize that the Truth (seeing the reality, etc.) will destroy the suitors, not exactly violence itself?
Just thinking out loud here. fwiw.
Throwing this in the pot:
I just read a number of essays in Spring 2011 issue of College Literature (a scholarly journal), which focuses on Odyssey, Book 19, and Penelope's "interview" with beggar-disguised Odysseus. Apparently, there's a debate centering around whether or not Penelope recognize the beggar as her husband before the "recognition scene" between Penelope and her husband in Book 23. There's a question that as a result of the "interview" with the beggar, she plans for a bow contest that led to a downfall of the suitors - that why at this point in time would she made a bow contest being held if she doe not know that her husband's back (one of the examples, anyway).
John Vlahos, who made an argument that Penelope did recognized the beggar as her husband, making Book 19 as the "early" recognition scene. In the above journal issue, there's a number of scholars writing in a response to Vlahos' defense of the early recognition, including Bruce Louden and his 25-page article, "Is There Early Recognition between Penelope and Odysseus?; Book 19 in the Larger Context of the Odyssey" (not inclusive in either of his books). Louden is rejecting the early recognition scene by arguing that the bigger context of the Odyssey repeatedly shows all individuals, including Circe, were not able to recognize Odysseus when he appeared before them.
Reading through Louden's article made me to notice a few things:
page 77-79 said:
This brought me to a thinking that if Odysseus is considered to be a "Higher Self," we would not recognize it unless Athena directs it so. That he is near, but we won't recognize him until we're ready, so to speak.
It was Athena who directs Penelope away from or dissociates her from seeing the reaction of her maid, Eurykleia, after recognizing the beggar as Odysseus, preventing a recognition scene because it seems that Penelope would not be taking a part in aiding Odysseus in slaying the suitors, but she did plan for it. As mkrnhr pointed out, Penelope may be seen as an inner emotional aspect which would suggest that emotions can play a role preceding the destruction of the suitors but doesn't take a part in it.
During the "interview" between Penelope and beggar-disguised Odysseus in Book 19, she relate a dream to him (of an eagle killing geese) and then mentioned the "gates of horn and ivory," which interests me:
Lattimore trans.; Book 19 said:
From above, a Gate of Horn associates with truth while a Gate of Ivory associates with lies/deceit. I just finished reading Benjamin Haller's 2009 article in Classical Philology entitled "The Gates of Horn and Ivory in Odyssey 19: Penelope's Call for Deeds, Not Words," which gives another interpretation on the "dream speech" (Haller agrees with Vlahos on a possibility of an early recognition scene between Penelope and Odysseus):
page 398 said:
This makes me wonder that since the Gate of Horn, associated with truth/seeing, represents the bow of Odysseus, and that bow in turn as being used to destroy the suitors, would that simplify/symbolize that the Truth (seeing the reality, etc.) will destroy the suitors, not exactly violence itself?
Just thinking out loud here. fwiw.
Mountain Crown
The Living Force
Re: The Odyssey - question for all!
Very interesting post, thanks, Myrddin.
Very interesting post, thanks, Myrddin.
Maia
Jedi
Homer's "The Odyssey" is one of my all time favorite stories because my mother's middle name was Minerva.
I came to this discussion thinking, wow, I've read this epic twice and got a A on this in highschool, maybe I'll be able to contribute to this discussion.
Wrong.
Along with Laura and everyone else's scholarly insights I have been pouring through, I am finding that even though I read "The Odyssey" twice, the political, historical and subtle occult significances completely escaped me.
I did find and expressed 40 years back that I found many similarities between Homer's Odyssey and The OT and was proud that I saw how Moses and Odysseus shared the seemingly same characteristics of the hero's struggles along with their own human limitations.
It's like every so often, say in politics, religion and history, we get another rehashing of the same old, same old, just the names and faces change but the basic story plot remains the same.
Sort of like repainting a old house to make it look fresh and new every once in a while.
One god replaces another one in order to serve the people's needs of that time period.
The thought of Homer's Odyssey being a manuel for secret teaching is a fascinating concept and one that completely eluded me until now.
While I won't be able to contribute much (if anything), as you all are about ten levels ahead of me in historical perspective, I'm gaining an immense understanding I never thought possible. For that I thank everyone and particularly Laura.
I've been on many sites, because, like Neo, I figured out long ago that things are "amiss" and something's not quite "right". I've had a life long struggle to find my way out of the matrix.
Of all the other sites I have visited, Sott.net ranks at the top for mental stimulation.
So while you won't be aware that I'm here, I'm here quietly and humbly, gratefully eating up the tidbits everyone is throwing out there, like a hungry dog waiting for a bone.
I'm still plowing through The Secret History of The World and between the discussions on this site and reading Laura's books - there just aren't enough hours in the day. I spent hours just reading through Laura's posts alone yesterday.
And the days seem to be going by faster and faster every year that passes.
I always thought I was fairly well read and insightful, but we all have our various levels so along the way, I've also learned humility.
Am amazed at the vast knowledge everyone in this discussion has and somewhat taken aback and excited at the same time to be learning new concepts. :)
Can't wait to see where Laura is going to end up on this one.
If I had but just one wish, it wouldn't be for money, fame, power or beauty - it would be for a higher IQ, and being able to be more perceptive.
I came to this discussion thinking, wow, I've read this epic twice and got a A on this in highschool, maybe I'll be able to contribute to this discussion.
Wrong.
Along with Laura and everyone else's scholarly insights I have been pouring through, I am finding that even though I read "The Odyssey" twice, the political, historical and subtle occult significances completely escaped me.
I did find and expressed 40 years back that I found many similarities between Homer's Odyssey and The OT and was proud that I saw how Moses and Odysseus shared the seemingly same characteristics of the hero's struggles along with their own human limitations.
It's like every so often, say in politics, religion and history, we get another rehashing of the same old, same old, just the names and faces change but the basic story plot remains the same.
Sort of like repainting a old house to make it look fresh and new every once in a while.
One god replaces another one in order to serve the people's needs of that time period.
The thought of Homer's Odyssey being a manuel for secret teaching is a fascinating concept and one that completely eluded me until now.
While I won't be able to contribute much (if anything), as you all are about ten levels ahead of me in historical perspective, I'm gaining an immense understanding I never thought possible. For that I thank everyone and particularly Laura.
I've been on many sites, because, like Neo, I figured out long ago that things are "amiss" and something's not quite "right". I've had a life long struggle to find my way out of the matrix.
Of all the other sites I have visited, Sott.net ranks at the top for mental stimulation.
So while you won't be aware that I'm here, I'm here quietly and humbly, gratefully eating up the tidbits everyone is throwing out there, like a hungry dog waiting for a bone.
I'm still plowing through The Secret History of The World and between the discussions on this site and reading Laura's books - there just aren't enough hours in the day. I spent hours just reading through Laura's posts alone yesterday.
And the days seem to be going by faster and faster every year that passes.
I always thought I was fairly well read and insightful, but we all have our various levels so along the way, I've also learned humility.
Am amazed at the vast knowledge everyone in this discussion has and somewhat taken aback and excited at the same time to be learning new concepts. :)
Can't wait to see where Laura is going to end up on this one.
If I had but just one wish, it wouldn't be for money, fame, power or beauty - it would be for a higher IQ, and being able to be more perceptive.
Psalehesost
The Living Force
The Water Bearer said:
Practical suggestion going some way: In case you haven't already, looking into the latest developments in the Diet and Health section can help - the removal of garbage (veggies, etc.) and addition of fine things (meats, saturated fats) to the diet, as explored in detail (should be studied before practiced) - these changes can switch the brain to a more efficient fuel (ketones), in addition to lowering inflammation and the brain-fuzziness thereby caused; and proper fats can in general increase brain health.
Keep in mind that the above is very incomplete (Diet and Health threads such as "Life Without Bread" and "The Vegetarian Myth" go into details proper). The dietary changes explored help healing and improving the brain when combined with its ongoing use - to the extent possible given the toxic and cognitively limiting environments we have grown up and lived in (meaning that we're all damaged and probably kept far beneath our genetic potential).
I find finding this network has been the best thing to ever happen to my brain - though that's mainly just a "bonus" in considering the wider significance of things. Anyhow - good luck!
Maia
Jedi
For anyone interested there is a free ebook here: http://www.4shared.com/get/UtrY6YNO/Garbini_Giovanni_-_Myth_and_Hi.html
The book is called, "Garbini, Giovanni - Myth and History in the Bible.pdf".
Note: If you don't have a membership you will have to wait 216 minutes.
The book is 161 pages and 10,857 KB.
:)
Divide by Zero
The Living Force
Thanks for the book, it did not require the 216 minute wait. I believe it did for you because you might have tried before or uploaded something and had to wait.
Meager1
Dagobah Resident
Artemis began as an nymph, and I found a little more about nymphs in general and was surprised at how closely some of this Greek mythology matches Algonquin legend.
As their influence was thus exercised in all departments of nature, they frequently appear in connection with higher divinities, as, for example, with Apollo, the prophetic god and the protector of herds and flocks (Apollon. Rhod. iv. 1218); with Artemis, the huntress and the protectress of game, for she herself was originally an Arcadian nymph (Apollon. Rhod. i. 1225, iii. 881; Paus. iii. 10. § 8); with Hermes, the fructifying god of flocks (Hom. Hymn. in Aphrod. 262); with Dionysus (Orph. Hymn. 52; Horat. Carm. i. 1. 31, ii. 19. 3); with Pan, the Seileni and Satyrs, whom they join in their Bacchic revels and dances.
In some traditions it was believed that only women could enter the afterlife (known to some as 'Tir-na-nog', or the 'Land of the Forever Young') and that man must first be reabsorbed into the womb before passing on.
Hesiod, Theogony 176 f (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or 7th B.C.) :
"Then the son [Kronos, Cronus] from his ambush stretched forth his left hand and in his right took the great long sickle with jagged teeth, and swiftly lopped off his own father's [Ouranos'] members and cast them away to fall behind him. And not vainly did they fall from his hand; for all the bloody drops that gushed forth Gaia (Earth) received, and as the seasons moved round she bare the strong Erinyes (Furies) and the great Gigantes (Giants) with gleaming armour and the Nymphai whom they call Meliai all over the boundless earth."
[N.B. The Gigantes and Meliai of Hesiod may be the Kouretes (Curetes) and Nymphs of Mount Ida in Krete who nursed the infant Zeus. In meliai suggests both ash-tree, melia, and honey, meli. Cf. Callimachus, Hymn to Zeus below.]
A nymph in Greek mythology is a female minor nature deity typically associated with a particular location or landform. Different from gods, nymphs are generally regarded as divine spirits who animate nature, and are usually depicted as beautiful, young nubile maidens who love to dance and sing; their amorous freedom sets them apart from the restricted and chaste wives and daughters of the Greek polis. They dwell in mountains and groves, by springs and rivers, and also in trees and in valleys and cool grottoes. Although they would never die of old age nor illness, and could give birth to fully immortal children if mated to a god, they themselves were not necessarily immortal, and could be beholden to death in various forms.
Other nymphs, always in the shape of young maidens, were part of the retinue of a god, such as Dionysus, Hermes, or Pan, or a goddess, generally the huntress Artemis.[1] Nymphs were the frequent target of satyrs. They are frequently associated with the superior divinities: the huntress Artemis; the prophetic Apollo; the reveller and god of wine, Dionysus; and rustic gods such as Pan and Hermes.
The symbolic marriage of a nymph and a patriarch, often the eponym of a people, is repeated endlessly in Greek origin myths; their union lent authority to the archaic king and his line.
Due to the depiction of the mythological nymphs as females who mate with men or women at their own volition, and are completely outside male control, the term is often used for women who are perceived as behaving similarly.
The second class of nymphs are personifications of tribes, races, and states, such as Cyrene, and many others.
According to the Edda,( Norse mythology) the order of births on earth was as follows:--
First, two giants were born from the mother's armpit.
Secondly, the dwarfs were created.
Thirdly, man was made from the ash-tree.
According to the Wabanaki, this was the order:--
First, two giants were born, _one_ from his mother's armpit.
Secondly, the dwarfs (Mikumwessuk) were created from the bark of the
ash-tree.
Thirdly, man was made from the _trunk_ of the ash.
This story tells how Gluskonba made the first people out of stone. Because they were made of stone they were very strong. They did not need to eat and then never grew tired or slept.
Their hearts, too, were made of stone. They began to do cruel things. They killed animals for amusement and pulled trees up by their roots. When Gluskonba saw this he knew he had made a mistake. So he changed them back into stone. To this day there are certain mountains and hills which look like a sleeping person. Some old people say those are the first ones Gluskonba made, whom he turned back into stone.
Then, instead of making more stone people, Gluskonba (Klouskap) looked around for something else to make human beings. He saw the ash trees. They were tall and slender and they danced gracefully in the wind. Then Gluskonba made the shapes of men and women in the trunks of the ash trees. He took out his long bow and arrows and shot the arrows into the ashes. Where each arrow went in, a person stepped forth, straight and tall. Those people had hearts which were growing and green. They were the first Abenakis. To this day those who remember this story call the ash trees their relatives...As you can see, Klouskap was very strong and extremely sacred to the Penobscot. When he prepared the land and was ready to bring the Penobscot, he took his Bow and Arrow and shot straight into the Brown Ash tree. The tree split and the Penobscot came dancing and singing out of this tree. To this day, our baskets are made of Brown Ash and sweet grass. This still symbolizes the
Penobscot connection and respect of this sacred tree.
In pre-European contact, these stories were conveyed primarily through music and the singing of the stories was a way to preserve them and keep them intact for each succeeding generation. According to J. Walter Fewkes, 1890 in Contribution to Passamaquoddy Folk-lore, “The Passamaquoddies agree in the statement that their stories were formerly sung, and resembled poems.”
Algonquin;
The Bad Mind (made two images of clay in the form of mankind, but while he was giving them existence they became apes. The Good Mind discovered his brother's contrivances, and aided in giving them living souls.
THE MELIAI (or Meliae) were Oread nymphs of the mountain ash, born to Gaia (the Earth) when she was impregnated by the blood of the castrated god Ouranos (Sky). They were "the mothers" of the third, Bronze Race, of mankind. Their sons were nursed on the sweet manna (Greek meli) of the ash (Greek melia), and crafted spears from the branches of their mothers' trees. They were an overly warlike race who incurred the wrath of Zeus and were destroyed in the floods of the Great Deluge.
The Meliai were probably the same as the honey-nymph (meliai) nurses of the god Zeus, Ida and Adrasteia. The manna (meli) of the ash and the honey (meli) of bees were believed to be related, both being regarded as an ambrosial food fallen from heaven. In Hesiod's Theogony they were born alongside the Erinyes--avengers of the castration of Ouranos--and the Gigantes, who in Hesiod appear to be the Kourete-protectors of the infant Zeus. As children born of the castration, it would be appropriate that they and their brothers should play a role in the downfall of Kronos, perpetrator of the crime.
They were probably also identified with the Hekaterides and Kabeirides, the sister-wives of the Kouretes, Daktyloi and Kabeiroi.
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4. 1642 ff (trans. Rieu) (Greek epic C3rd B.C.) :
"[The bronze-giant Talos] a descendant of the brazen race [of men] that sprang from Meliai (Ash-Trees)."
The European sailors and merchants gave the name Levant (Levánte) to the west and south coasts of Asia Minor, including Syria. Levánte is derived from the French verb lever meaning "to rise" indicating that part of the world where the sun rises.
The name Anatolia comes from the Greek Aνατολή (anatolē) meaning the "East" or more literally "sunrise." The precise reference of this term has varied over time, perhaps originally referring only to the Ionian colonies on the Asia Minor coast.
Wabanaki means "people of the dawn" or "dawnland people," referring to these peoples as the easterners. The name "Wabanaki" itself, however, may be a corruption of the Passamquoddy term Wub-bub-nee-hig, from Wub-bub-phun meaning the "first light of dawn before the early sunrise."
And when they reached the shore they found Glooskap, the mighty Magician, waiting for them. And, smiling, he said to the Mikumwess, "Go your way in the forest and join the band of Fairies, and be always happy with your magic flute." Then to the Badger he said: "Welcome once more to the Land of the Children of Light".
Take your wife, Brown Fawn, and return to your lodge. Plenty of game shall always be yours, and peace and contentment."
"She [Tethys] brought forth also [in addition to the River-Gods] a race apart of daughters [the Okeanides] . . . there are three thousand light-stepping daughters of Okeanos scattered far and wide, bright children among the goddesses, and all alike look after the earth [trees, plants and flowers?] and the depths of the standing water [i.e. springs, streams, lakes and wells]."
Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter 415 ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th or 6th B.C.) :
"The deep-bosomed daughters of Okeanos . . . were playing in a lovely meadow [with the goddesses Persephone, Artemis, Aphrodite and Athene]."
They knew it as the tree of the world and the tree of rebirth and healing, and believed it was connected to fire, lightning and clouds. In some ancient pagan beliefs, the ash was thought to be the ancestor of all mankind, with men being created from ash trees. Oddly enough, in faroff Greece there was a similar belief, this being that certain important families were descended from ash trees.
GAIA & the blood of OURANOS (Hesiod Theogony 178)
OFFSPRING
[1.1] BRAZEN RACE OF MEN (Hesiod Works & Days 150)
[1.2] ARKADIAN MEN (Statius Thebaid 4.280)
From around 1200 BC, the palace centres and outlying settlements of the Mycenaeans' highly organized culture began to be abandoned or destroyed, and by 1050 BC, the recognisable features of Mycenaean culture had disappeared. Many explanations attribute the fall of the Mycenaean civilization and the Bronze Age collapse to climatic or environmental catastrophe combined with an invasion by Dorians or by the Sea Peoples or the widespread availability of edged weapons of iron, but no single explanation fits the available archaeological evidence.
As their influence was thus exercised in all departments of nature, they frequently appear in connection with higher divinities, as, for example, with Apollo, the prophetic god and the protector of herds and flocks (Apollon. Rhod. iv. 1218); with Artemis, the huntress and the protectress of game, for she herself was originally an Arcadian nymph (Apollon. Rhod. i. 1225, iii. 881; Paus. iii. 10. § 8); with Hermes, the fructifying god of flocks (Hom. Hymn. in Aphrod. 262); with Dionysus (Orph. Hymn. 52; Horat. Carm. i. 1. 31, ii. 19. 3); with Pan, the Seileni and Satyrs, whom they join in their Bacchic revels and dances.
In some traditions it was believed that only women could enter the afterlife (known to some as 'Tir-na-nog', or the 'Land of the Forever Young') and that man must first be reabsorbed into the womb before passing on.
Hesiod, Theogony 176 f (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or 7th B.C.) :
"Then the son [Kronos, Cronus] from his ambush stretched forth his left hand and in his right took the great long sickle with jagged teeth, and swiftly lopped off his own father's [Ouranos'] members and cast them away to fall behind him. And not vainly did they fall from his hand; for all the bloody drops that gushed forth Gaia (Earth) received, and as the seasons moved round she bare the strong Erinyes (Furies) and the great Gigantes (Giants) with gleaming armour and the Nymphai whom they call Meliai all over the boundless earth."
[N.B. The Gigantes and Meliai of Hesiod may be the Kouretes (Curetes) and Nymphs of Mount Ida in Krete who nursed the infant Zeus. In meliai suggests both ash-tree, melia, and honey, meli. Cf. Callimachus, Hymn to Zeus below.]
A nymph in Greek mythology is a female minor nature deity typically associated with a particular location or landform. Different from gods, nymphs are generally regarded as divine spirits who animate nature, and are usually depicted as beautiful, young nubile maidens who love to dance and sing; their amorous freedom sets them apart from the restricted and chaste wives and daughters of the Greek polis. They dwell in mountains and groves, by springs and rivers, and also in trees and in valleys and cool grottoes. Although they would never die of old age nor illness, and could give birth to fully immortal children if mated to a god, they themselves were not necessarily immortal, and could be beholden to death in various forms.
Other nymphs, always in the shape of young maidens, were part of the retinue of a god, such as Dionysus, Hermes, or Pan, or a goddess, generally the huntress Artemis.[1] Nymphs were the frequent target of satyrs. They are frequently associated with the superior divinities: the huntress Artemis; the prophetic Apollo; the reveller and god of wine, Dionysus; and rustic gods such as Pan and Hermes.
The symbolic marriage of a nymph and a patriarch, often the eponym of a people, is repeated endlessly in Greek origin myths; their union lent authority to the archaic king and his line.
Due to the depiction of the mythological nymphs as females who mate with men or women at their own volition, and are completely outside male control, the term is often used for women who are perceived as behaving similarly.
The second class of nymphs are personifications of tribes, races, and states, such as Cyrene, and many others.
According to the Edda,( Norse mythology) the order of births on earth was as follows:--
First, two giants were born from the mother's armpit.
Secondly, the dwarfs were created.
Thirdly, man was made from the ash-tree.
According to the Wabanaki, this was the order:--
First, two giants were born, _one_ from his mother's armpit.
Secondly, the dwarfs (Mikumwessuk) were created from the bark of the
ash-tree.
Thirdly, man was made from the _trunk_ of the ash.
This story tells how Gluskonba made the first people out of stone. Because they were made of stone they were very strong. They did not need to eat and then never grew tired or slept.
Their hearts, too, were made of stone. They began to do cruel things. They killed animals for amusement and pulled trees up by their roots. When Gluskonba saw this he knew he had made a mistake. So he changed them back into stone. To this day there are certain mountains and hills which look like a sleeping person. Some old people say those are the first ones Gluskonba made, whom he turned back into stone.
Then, instead of making more stone people, Gluskonba (Klouskap) looked around for something else to make human beings. He saw the ash trees. They were tall and slender and they danced gracefully in the wind. Then Gluskonba made the shapes of men and women in the trunks of the ash trees. He took out his long bow and arrows and shot the arrows into the ashes. Where each arrow went in, a person stepped forth, straight and tall. Those people had hearts which were growing and green. They were the first Abenakis. To this day those who remember this story call the ash trees their relatives...As you can see, Klouskap was very strong and extremely sacred to the Penobscot. When he prepared the land and was ready to bring the Penobscot, he took his Bow and Arrow and shot straight into the Brown Ash tree. The tree split and the Penobscot came dancing and singing out of this tree. To this day, our baskets are made of Brown Ash and sweet grass. This still symbolizes the
Penobscot connection and respect of this sacred tree.
In pre-European contact, these stories were conveyed primarily through music and the singing of the stories was a way to preserve them and keep them intact for each succeeding generation. According to J. Walter Fewkes, 1890 in Contribution to Passamaquoddy Folk-lore, “The Passamaquoddies agree in the statement that their stories were formerly sung, and resembled poems.”
Algonquin;
The Bad Mind (made two images of clay in the form of mankind, but while he was giving them existence they became apes. The Good Mind discovered his brother's contrivances, and aided in giving them living souls.
THE MELIAI (or Meliae) were Oread nymphs of the mountain ash, born to Gaia (the Earth) when she was impregnated by the blood of the castrated god Ouranos (Sky). They were "the mothers" of the third, Bronze Race, of mankind. Their sons were nursed on the sweet manna (Greek meli) of the ash (Greek melia), and crafted spears from the branches of their mothers' trees. They were an overly warlike race who incurred the wrath of Zeus and were destroyed in the floods of the Great Deluge.
The Meliai were probably the same as the honey-nymph (meliai) nurses of the god Zeus, Ida and Adrasteia. The manna (meli) of the ash and the honey (meli) of bees were believed to be related, both being regarded as an ambrosial food fallen from heaven. In Hesiod's Theogony they were born alongside the Erinyes--avengers of the castration of Ouranos--and the Gigantes, who in Hesiod appear to be the Kourete-protectors of the infant Zeus. As children born of the castration, it would be appropriate that they and their brothers should play a role in the downfall of Kronos, perpetrator of the crime.
They were probably also identified with the Hekaterides and Kabeirides, the sister-wives of the Kouretes, Daktyloi and Kabeiroi.
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4. 1642 ff (trans. Rieu) (Greek epic C3rd B.C.) :
"[The bronze-giant Talos] a descendant of the brazen race [of men] that sprang from Meliai (Ash-Trees)."
The European sailors and merchants gave the name Levant (Levánte) to the west and south coasts of Asia Minor, including Syria. Levánte is derived from the French verb lever meaning "to rise" indicating that part of the world where the sun rises.
The name Anatolia comes from the Greek Aνατολή (anatolē) meaning the "East" or more literally "sunrise." The precise reference of this term has varied over time, perhaps originally referring only to the Ionian colonies on the Asia Minor coast.
Wabanaki means "people of the dawn" or "dawnland people," referring to these peoples as the easterners. The name "Wabanaki" itself, however, may be a corruption of the Passamquoddy term Wub-bub-nee-hig, from Wub-bub-phun meaning the "first light of dawn before the early sunrise."
And when they reached the shore they found Glooskap, the mighty Magician, waiting for them. And, smiling, he said to the Mikumwess, "Go your way in the forest and join the band of Fairies, and be always happy with your magic flute." Then to the Badger he said: "Welcome once more to the Land of the Children of Light".
Take your wife, Brown Fawn, and return to your lodge. Plenty of game shall always be yours, and peace and contentment."
"She [Tethys] brought forth also [in addition to the River-Gods] a race apart of daughters [the Okeanides] . . . there are three thousand light-stepping daughters of Okeanos scattered far and wide, bright children among the goddesses, and all alike look after the earth [trees, plants and flowers?] and the depths of the standing water [i.e. springs, streams, lakes and wells]."
Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter 415 ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th or 6th B.C.) :
"The deep-bosomed daughters of Okeanos . . . were playing in a lovely meadow [with the goddesses Persephone, Artemis, Aphrodite and Athene]."
They knew it as the tree of the world and the tree of rebirth and healing, and believed it was connected to fire, lightning and clouds. In some ancient pagan beliefs, the ash was thought to be the ancestor of all mankind, with men being created from ash trees. Oddly enough, in faroff Greece there was a similar belief, this being that certain important families were descended from ash trees.
GAIA & the blood of OURANOS (Hesiod Theogony 178)
OFFSPRING
[1.1] BRAZEN RACE OF MEN (Hesiod Works & Days 150)
[1.2] ARKADIAN MEN (Statius Thebaid 4.280)
From around 1200 BC, the palace centres and outlying settlements of the Mycenaeans' highly organized culture began to be abandoned or destroyed, and by 1050 BC, the recognisable features of Mycenaean culture had disappeared. Many explanations attribute the fall of the Mycenaean civilization and the Bronze Age collapse to climatic or environmental catastrophe combined with an invasion by Dorians or by the Sea Peoples or the widespread availability of edged weapons of iron, but no single explanation fits the available archaeological evidence.
reborn
The Force is Strong With This One
Aloha!
I wonder if this has some connection to the tree from which Odysseus and Penelope's bed is made, perhaps in the symbolism of their reunion:
Perhaps that symbolism includes the reunion of the male and female energies in an alchemical context, and "rebirth and healing" of the world and its peoples after cataclysm? Interesting how there's also a connection here to Greece...
It also reminds me of this article which I just started reading and which explores lightning, among other things:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/223336-Cyclones-Earthquakes-Volcanoes-And-Other-Electrical-Phenomena
There happens to be a reflection in this quote of how, from our perspective, the "gods" are above the clouds and we cannot usually see them. And didn't the Cs say that our weather could be a manifestation of battles or something in 4D? Maybe there are some "electrical connections" here...
Charged ;D
Renee
I wonder if this has some connection to the tree from which Odysseus and Penelope's bed is made, perhaps in the symbolism of their reunion:
Meager1 said:
Perhaps that symbolism includes the reunion of the male and female energies in an alchemical context, and "rebirth and healing" of the world and its peoples after cataclysm? Interesting how there's also a connection here to Greece...
It also reminds me of this article which I just started reading and which explores lightning, among other things:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/223336-Cyclones-Earthquakes-Volcanoes-And-Other-Electrical-Phenomena
There happens to be a reflection in this quote of how, from our perspective, the "gods" are above the clouds and we cannot usually see them. And didn't the Cs say that our weather could be a manifestation of battles or something in 4D? Maybe there are some "electrical connections" here...
Charged ;D
Renee
Rick3
Padawan Learner
After happily stumbling across this forum and Sott I need a 96 hour day - just to keep up with the reading! Busy with ISOTM, want to contribute here as well, keep on looking back at aspects of the Wave series, can't wait to look at the histories - you know what I mean. I will need two lives.
I love it!
I love it!
Remembered reading in THE SECRET TEACHINGS OF ALL AGES by Manly P. Hall (1928) references to Homer and Odyssey but could not remember exactly the context. Doing a search revealed only a few references noted and here is what he states.
The Pythagoreans
Of Ciphers
The Pythagoreans
Of Ciphers
#3 said:
