the path of recovery

[Phoenixxx]

Things get a bit awkward at this point of the discussion because I'm getting conflicting messages.


Theres no way of getting around the fact that I was a victim. Simply by reason that someone with a predatory, deceitful and ruthless nature made certain choices that worked against me and left emotional injuries. I cant rewrite history although there have been many a night when I prayed God would. I wont be in denial about what happened, but in fact I consistently face the truth as ugly and painful as it is.

Having said that, I dont identify myself as a victim-in-waiting. Normal people get assaulted, robbed, or collided with everyday just by mere fact of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those traumas are everyday occurences but they also result in injury. Some people are shaken up for a day or two, others carry the aftermath on their souls, or bodies for longer.

Its easy for me to accept there is evil in the world (or at the very least plenty of folks who mean to do harm in order to get what they want). Its also easy for me to accept bad things happen to good people. What hasnt been easy to accept is having been deeply in love, having believed my partner was deeply in love with me, and having my partner be a predator with me. It doesnt "jive" easily in my heart despite all the reading. That doesnt mean I dont understand, or that I dont believe. Because I do. I lived it as you all have too.

So even though there are still fleeting moments of wishing for the Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind procedure, I in fact DO make the conscious (and loving) decisions to sit with my grief, sit with my rage, feel the pain and yet keep on taking one step in front of another. To me, thats what life is...feeling everything life results in, and still keeping my commitment to pay my bills, engage with people or keep breathing!

What I have consistently done is also hold the responsibility for my recovery in my own hands. I havent made anyone else responsible for my healing. Had I been injured in an automobile accident I would also be researching what therapies, supplements and supports worked for others with similar injuries. I might also join a support group, might even indulge from time to time in whimpering, might even get angry with fate in those dark lonely nights, might even take moments of forgetting or dulling or denying the pain.

Accepting someone victimized me is different than a victim mentality in my experience.

Not having a history of abuse or N/S's in my life previously, or since, tells me that it is indeed an anomaly. Its not part of any pattern in MY life, but then life is full of anomalies precisely because randomness is part of life...some people being in the wrong place at the wrong time is part of that randomness.

Being a loving and lovable person is not a chink in my armour. Neither is being one who takes commitment, or compassion seriously. Having a predator cross my path is though, just as believing that he was something else when he put so much skillfull energy into presenting himself as such.

These are all my opinions of course, and not stated as truisms. Theyre based on my experience, what I've come to learn through the therapy, and also what values and character I brought with me from pre-N/S days. Theyre true for me, today. Theyre subject to change as my body and heart mature, and more and more wisdom is acquired.

I suspect it is that way for most people.

Having burnout doesnt make me a victim, its an after effect of prolonged trauma. I'm Ok with that. It seems like a reality I can live with, AND be proactive about.

In my desire to alleviate that, I embrace the urge to not just survive but to thrive once again. It is NOT a desire to forget what happened and return to the days of ignorance. Its about my quality of life from here on out...its about feeling like a normal person, not an injured person anymore. Its about the day when once more the birds sound lovely and garden tomatoes taste yummy and I'm excited about the weekend, and I want to buy a new pair of shoes.

I was just recalling my parents teaching me about evil, about those who misuse power, about those who lie and manipulate but they spoke those lessons from their own experience in WWII Germany. They were right and I believed them. The same wisdom was not taught to me about my future potential life partner, I think because they each respected the other as life partners. That doesnt make them pathological or ignorant people. I think some wisdom only comes through experience.

(Am I repeating myself now? I think I am)

Its OK that I had to learn some hard lessons. Its NOT OK that someone else abused me. I make those 2 distinctions very crisp.

I'm still breathing, still financially soluble, still alert and aware and intelligent, still useful in my community, still a grounded parent, still have my talents and physical body intact. In most ways I live a charmed life...not all ways -- there are a couple blemishes on my "ledger", but I'm settled with that. I just dont at this point want to settle into this being all there is. I still have proactive choices to make, therapies to pursue, supports to construct.

But then, dont we all?

 

[Phoenixxx]

Webglider

Lately I've been thinking, as crafty and stealthy as they are, I just may be faced with another N/S in my lifetime. I just may be tricked again. Its always a possibility. I'm not a walking lie detector.

However, what has changed is not that I have come to know how to protect myself, but I have come to have confidence in my ability to walk away MUCH MUCH sooner...

and not to minimize the other side of that -- that I am more resilient and stronger in character than I ever previously knew.

My metal's been tested...."annealed" !!!!

"Discernment" -- yes indeed, and not just to begin with, but ongoing, yes?

 

[webglider]

Lately I've been thinking, as crafty and stealthy as they are, I just may be faced with another N/S in my lifetime. I just may be tricked again.

Given the degree of ponorization in society, there is a good possibility that you will be faced with a ponorized person or institution in your lifetime. The possibility is there for all of us.

I have come to have confidence in my ability to walk away MUCH MUCH sooner...

Or you may allow yourself to be taken in to begin with.

"Discernment" -- yes indeed, and not just to begin with, but ongoing, yes?

Especially ongoing.

 

[Phoenixxx]

"Or you may allow yourself to be taken in to begin with."





???

 

[T.C.]

Hi Phoenixxx

If you want to understand this forum better, you need to get a copy of the book, In Search of the Miraculous by P. D. Ouspensky.

It gives a partial, yet substantial record of the teachings of G. I. Gurdjieff, whose research and work on human nature, human mechanicalness and human potential is the foundation of this forum.

One of his students wrote this piece, which gives a very good introduction the most important principles:

You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.

 

[Phoenixxx]

would you be willing to explain why I need to read that book?

 

[T.C.]

It's all in the above post.

 

[Beau]

???

It would be considerate if you would not post cryptic non-answers to someone's post. If you are confused by something, please spend the time to explain what it is you are unsure about. That way people do not have to try and decipher your meaning.

 

[Phoenixxx]

T.C.

I read the above post, but I'm asking why YOU think I have to read the book. Do I not show a substantial amount of self-awareness? Is it that my claim of having done years of personal work to acquire that self-knwoledge doesnt sound true...enough?

Is it that I accepted the suggestions of burnout and the subsequent advice on how to travel through that too readily?

I'm not certain why I'm now being told I have to read a particular book, especially after I clearly stated I've done years of reading and just wished for feedback on the recovery path after N/abuse.

I'm puzzled and asking for clarification.


PInkerton, would you be willing to explain why using a few question marks is seen as inconsiderate? Perhaps its because I am a visual thinker, but repeating the text for question I just assumed was seen by everyone else, as it is to most others I know as a communication of "questioning".

I see there is the beginning of a breakdown in communication on both sides in this thread. I'm more than willing to try and work that out.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Actually,

I'm starting to get signals that perhaps my welcome has worn out.

if thats true then allow me to once again thank those who were thoughtful and took their time to post their feedback to my initial question. Thanks especially for the posts on burnout and recovery from that, those were particularly useful. Thankyou also to those of you who commisserated on the post-abuse experiences.

namaste

 

[webglider]

Or you may allow yourself to be taken in to begin with."

Sorry. I meant to write "Or you may not allow yourself to be taken in to begin with".

would you be willing to explain why I need to read that book?

The book will provide a context for some of the issues that you are bringing up in this thread.

I'm starting to get signals that perhaps my welcome has worn out.

Phoenixx, it's that without further reading, you can only go so far. It's not that your welcome has worn out, but perhaps the topic has been explored as much as it can be for now.

It would be considerate if you would not post cryptic non-answers to someone's post. If you are confused by something, please spend the time to explain what it is you are unsure about. That way people do not have to try and decipher your meaning

One of the moderators' jobs is to ask for clarification which they do as often as they feel is necessary. I certainly have received many posts like the one Pinkerton wrote to you. They're not personal, or implying that you did anything offensive - it's about making the communication as clear and accurate as possible.







Although the forum devotes much of its energy in illuminating the nature of psychopaths and the evil they create on a personal and societal level, the scope of the forum is much wider than that one issue. In fact, if you choose to do so, the more you explore the forum, the Sott page, the many other parts of this site, and read the recommended books, the more the world, and your own experiences in it, will begin to make sense.

The scope ranges from the individual to the cosmic level. Much of the work here is based on the teachings of Gurdjieff. Some of the most important concepts has to do with, as T.C. wrote, ...reasearch and work on human nature, mechanicalness, and human potential."

The machine like nature of human behavior is a concept well worth exploring. It certainly explains a lot.

Having said that, Gurdjieff is only one of the influences here, but he is a major one. Much of the vocabulary and concepts used on this forum are taken from Gurdjieff's work; as a result, it may be difficult to follow some of the discussions without knowledge of the concepts and the working vocabulary.

 

[PepperFritz]

Gurdjieff is only one of the influences here, but he is a major one. Much of the vocabulary and concepts used on this forum are taken from Gurdjieff's work; as a result, it may be difficult to follow some of the discussions without knowledge of the concepts and the working vocabulary.

Phoenixx:

If you'd like to read a little "introductory" material before commiting yourself to reading an entire book, there is an entry in the Cassiopaea Esoteric Glossary on Gurdjieff's 4th Way teaching, generally referred to here as "the Work". It is a method recommended to and practiced by most members of this forum, as a first step towards seeing ourselves, others, and the world around us from a more OBJECTIVE perspective, rather through the prism of our own SUBJECTIVITY -- i.e., our emotional issues, programs, and mechanical behaviour. The Work requires active participation in a group like this, where others also involved in the Work can provide feedback and act as a "mirror" in which we can see ourselves more objectively.

Itt's a good idea to bookmark both the Cassiopaea/SOTT Esoteric Glossary and the Cassiopedia, as they are very useful references that can be used when you encounter concepts/terminology that you may not be familiar with.

 

[FireShadow]

T.C.

I read the above post, but I'm asking why YOU think I have to read the book. Do I not show a substantial amount of self-awareness? Is it that my claim of having done years of personal work to acquire that self-knwoledge doesnt sound true...enough?

I do not think it is because your claim seems untruthful, I think it is more like awareness being like an onion. Every time we uncover a layer, another is found. It is very easy to have uncovered a layer and think we have now achieved "awareness". It is easy to dream that we are awake. This is true for all of us. The group here on the forum acts as a mirror for each of us in order to help stay away from the dreaming.

All of the suggested reading can be very helpful, especially Pepperfritz's regarding introductory information. Once having read them, you may get a better idea if this is the place for you.

And, I for one do not think you have worn out your welcome. You seem to be sincerely seeking and as such are welcome. We are merely trying to hold up a mirror for you. This does not mean that each comment is absolutely accurate, but is merely offered as areas to think upon.

 

[Smallwood]

Hello Phoenixx,

I was about to post a message similar to webglider's. I don't think either that you haven't worn out your welcome. Why not stick around longer just to be sure? That said, you can already learn a lot when you take the advice you've received here to heart and contemplate. It could help discussion return to focus if after some time you write a sort of update with new questions after you've assessed the advice.

As for reading ISOTM, it depends very much on if you find the other stuff talked about here besides psychopathy to be interesting to you. It does offer much technical help in recognizing the "quirks" in our personalities that have the potential to make us experience the negative things all over again, but as webglider said, it's scope is a lot bigger than that. You probably can get the same info in other ways from reading this forum. "The Work" isn't a light undertaking and it is understandable if it is something you rather not bother with. Read links provided by PepperFritz and you already have a better idea of whether you feel you belong here.

As per your initial question, I have been victimized by a psychopath myself some years ago, in my case a friend of childhood. I see that much has been said already in this thread, I would just like to add that the recovery isn't easy or quick (really, I never thought I would heal myself) but it is quite possible and likely if you really want to and know how to. Also, it is good to take it easy sometimes. I had to take one year off myself at the cost of falling back in education, but it was worth it in the situation that I was in (which was bad enough). It's different to you no doubt, but one thing that really hit it home to me was when I understood finally that the person who victimized me was doing what came naturally to him; it wasn't because of any wrong that I had committed myself. It didn't change that what he did was heinous, it didn't change the fact that people who surrounded us were essentially asleep to it but atleast it showed me that I had a reason to be and continue on and that NOW I had awaken to the reality of psychopathy. Even that alone isn't enough to ensure more happy days, but it can have potential to reduce the amount of bad ones :)

 

[anart]

Actually,

I'm starting to get signals that perhaps my welcome has worn out.

This is actually a way of saying that you are not receiving the feedback that you are looking for; not hearing what you want to hear. Thus, the question becomes what is it you are looking for?