the path of recovery

[Laura]

Actually,

I'm starting to get signals that perhaps my welcome has worn out.

if thats true then allow me to once again thank those who were thoughtful and took their time to post their feedback to my initial question. Thanks especially for the posts on burnout and recovery from that, those were particularly useful. Thankyou also to those of you who commisserated on the post-abuse experiences.

namaste

Your "reading" of signals is not exactly correct. A welcome to a seeker never wears out. But perhaps you included in your post what you were really after: commiseration.

We aren't about commiseration here, we are about becoming awake and aware and gaining and utilizing knowledge so that we are no longer at the mercy of forces - including pathological individuals - that can harm us or control our lives.

So yeah, seeking is welcome, a little commiseration is okay, but once that's done, time to get to work. When you are over your "burn-out" or whatever, when you are ready to really dig in and figure stuff out, we'll still be here. As I said already, you need to rest and to restore your energy and balance and that means to forget this forum exists for that period of time.

 

[Phoenixxx]

Anart
I did get precisely what I was looking for from a handful of people. However, many people responded, most of which seemed to want to offer me help wiuth a problem I didnt even present. Regarding the 'signals" read below.

Laura,
As I had stated I had figured things out already that required a commitment of time, effort, money and guts BEFORE I got here.

I didnt come here looking specifically for commisseration (but I find many people here, not just you, try to "read" things between the lines of my true intentions), I came looking for suggestions on how to handle what might be, for me, the last piece of the recovery process. What that tells me just through mere experience -- the actual sensory, emotional, physical experience of living in this moment -- is, knowledge is of great benefit, but it isnt everything. There is also doing, and nurturing and self-support in other just-as-valuable ways. My concern was, at this point, when I'm flat (burnt out) what doing/nurturing/supporting things did others do that worked?

Books, even discussions open doors. Walking through requires doing (work). Despite saying I had done so much reading and talking and therapy that I was satiated, and miles forward from where I came, it seemed like that was ignored and a different agenda was consistently put back on the table in front of me. Initially I found my concerns being ignored, and being challenged to do yet more and more reading puzzling. But I thought perhaps its because some of the survivors here felt their way may be the only correct way and they cared enough about me to make sure I follow that only correct way.

But I dont feel that way now.

Laura, "burnout, or whatever" sounds like it may be a trivial concern to you, or perhaps from your story that stage came first, and thats why you are convinced I have so much more work to do when its over. Except I did years of work before I got here. My concern was individual to me and my recovery path. Having an exhuberance for life instead of feeling flat and empty is anything but trivial to me.

Your repeated suggestion that I leave here is really the biggest signal I got, and I see I just got it again in your own words.

And since I respect that I am just a visitor here (until I would have felt like "a part of") I take those very clear signals to heart.

I did not come here to cause trouble. I came because I value the experiences of people who have gone before me, who had empathy (as in understand what I am experiencing in this moment -- and a few said they did) and have valuable advice (which I feel I got).

Its true, the discussion cant go any further (unless I come back and say "nope, sorry, that didnt work"). And I'm OK with that, because a few kind folks heard my question, believed me and answered with their hearts. That was lovely and I'm grateful for their kindness.

It would seem that the only people wanted here are ones who have the same philosophy and beliefs and read all the same books and engage in the same practices which is fine. I understand the value of community and cohesion and like-mindedness, especially in spiritual practice. I just didnt understand that was a requisite when I joined (despite reading the introduction to newbies). I'm in the wrong place. Thats no "biggie".

I'd just like to say, apart from that, and what initially drew me here, was that some folks post with such "knowing" about the experience of being targeted by N/S/psychopaths, and with such heart and empathy, I felt I might find what specific thing I was looking for.

'grateful that I did.

I wish you all well. I can tell from all of the posts here, especially the ones that were frustrating to me, that your beliefs are valuable and important to you. I sincerely hope everyone here acquires what theyre working towards.

 

[anart]

Anart
I did get precisely what I was looking for from a handful of people. However, many people responded, most of which seemed to want to offer me help wiuth a problem I didnt even present.

I can certainly understand why you might think that is the case, however, the fact of the matter is that the way you present yourself - the words you use, what you say and how you say it - present many things - which are then addressed by forum members here.

Laura,
As I had stated I had figured things out already that required a commitment of time, effort, money and guts BEFORE I got here.

I didnt come here looking specifically for commisseration (but I find many people here, not just you, try to "read" things between the lines of my true intentions), I came looking for suggestions on how to handle what might be, for me, the last piece of the recovery process.

This doesn't make much sense. According to what you've written here since you've arrived, you've quite clearly been looking for commiseration - almost exclusively. To state otherwise would suggest that you are unaware of your own behavior.

Books, even discussions open doors. Walking through requires doing (work). Despite saying I had done so much reading and talking and therapy that I was satiated, and miles forward from where I came, it seemed like that was ignored and a different agenda was consistently put back on the table in front of me.

Basically, that anything other than commiseration is viewed as 'a different agenda' - which is exactly what has been pointed out to you.

Initially I found my concerns being ignored, and being challenged to do yet more and more reading puzzling.

Because it was something other than commiseration and support of victim status?

But I thought perhaps its because some of the survivors here felt their way may be the only correct way and they cared enough about me to make sure I follow that only correct way.

Well, if you were more familiar with this forum then that would not have been a consideration - there is enough knowledge and experience on this forum to understand most certainly that individual psychology precludes any such things as 'one way'. However, you appear to have come here with certain expectations and when they were not met, you have reacted. Again, not unusual, but also not very beneficial in the long run.

Laura, "burnout, or whatever" sounds like it may be a trivial concern to you,

Just for perspective's sake, I did not read those words as trivializing your concerns at all. You had already stated that you thought that 'burnout' was a good description, but were not certain about it. With this already established, 'burnout or whatever' is pretty accurate.

Your repeated suggestion that I leave here is really the biggest signal I got, and I see I just got it again in your own words.

This is a rather suggestive way to put it - what was actually written was that you might consider focusing on taking care of yourself - as if this forum didn't exist.

And since I respect that I am just a visitor here (until I would have felt like "a part of") I take those very clear signals to heart.

Actually, it appears at this point to be more likely that since you did not get the response you were looking for ( the 'emotional food' ) that you are now twisting what was said in an attempt to appear - again - as the victim. This is most disconcerting.

I did not come here to cause trouble.

No one has suggested that you did come here to cause trouble. At this point, all that has been suggested has been based solely on your own behavior which tends to indicate that you are looking for food, as a victim who is looking for comisseration - to wallow in how horrible it all is and how badly it has gone for you. No offense is intended at all - just that this is not the most productive way to go about actually living ones life, as opposed to seeing it as a 'recovery process'.

I came because I value the experiences of people who have gone before me, who had empathy (as in understand what I am experiencing in this moment -- and a few said they did) and have valuable advice (which I feel I got).

How did you find this forum? I asked this previously, but I don't think that you got around to answering it.

Its true, the discussion cant go any further (unless I come back and say "nope, sorry, that didnt work"). And I'm OK with that, because a few kind folks heard my question, believed me and answered with their hearts. That was lovely and I'm grateful for their kindness.

This is also a very suggestive statement. Who didn't 'believe you'? I saw no evidence of anyone not 'believing you'. Is it simply that if you do not get the emotional response that you require, you assume that you are not believed? This, again, is rather disconcerting.

It would seem that the only people wanted here are ones who have the same philosophy and beliefs and read all the same books and engage in the same practices

That's an unfortunate and inaccurate take on the subject. Again, this indicates an attitude that if you do not get the emotional feedback that you came here looking for, then something is inherently wrong with this forum and its members.

which is fine.

Obviously not, or you wouldn't have written the sentence the way you wrote it.

I understand the value of community and cohesion and like-mindedness, especially in spiritual practice. I just didnt understand that was a requisite when I joined (despite reading the introduction to newbies). I'm in the wrong place. Thats no "biggie".

Again, you are jumping to some rather enormous conclusions and making suggestive statements that bear no resemblance to the truth of the matter.

I'd just like to say, apart from that, and what initially drew me here, was that some folks post with such "knowing" about the experience of being targeted by N/S/psychopaths, and with such heart and empathy, I felt I might find what specific thing I was looking for.

What initially drew you here? Why were you looking for 'heart and empathy'? Apologies for having to ask again, I'm just truly not very clear on that from your input thus far.

'grateful that I did.

That's good to hear, although the general body of this post would indicate otherwise.

I wish you all well. I can tell from all of the posts here, especially the ones that were frustrating to me, that your beliefs are valuable and important to you. I sincerely hope everyone here acquires what theyre working towards.

Well, again, if you had taken the time to become more familiar with the forum, you would have realized that beliefs are really not held in very high regard. Hopefully, however, you will find what it is you're looking for, where ever your search takes you.

 

[Phoenixxx]

no

I apologize, I'm obviously not stating myself clearly.

I came asking people whom I assumed had worked their recovery from N/abuse, WHAT worked for them in the recovery. When prompted to give a description of where I was at and what I was experiencing so that an answer could be more easily formulated in response, I described my present state.

When I got responses that made incorrect assumptions about ME (not descriptions of where others were at) I gently tried to correct the mistakes. (Even now you keep telling me I didnt get the commisserating and support for my victim status and so thats why I am frustrated- which is NOT what I asked for, not once, and even now my statements of having gotten the pragmatic practical suggestions for recovery work that I DID ask for and was happy to get-- not recovery reading/studying -- are still not being heard, I apologize, I dont know any other way to say it so that I'm believed by you, hopefully at some point you'll just take my word for it).

And the more I did that in order to clarify what I myself was experiencing and where I am in my own recovery, the more incorrect assumptions (reading into what I was saying, or projecting if you will) occured. I found it increasingly difficult to be seen as I am rather than how I was being 'analyzed".

Now, I concede that may just be MY incorrect assumptions (or as someone earlier suggested perhaps since my trust was so abused I am distrusting and suspicious -- I'll chew on that for awhile), but a handful of people actually heard me and recognized exactly what I was asking for, and despite the commisserating being nice, it was the suggestions and advice that actually FIT where I'm at that I was looking for, and got, and even posted that I felt that was EXACTLY what I was looking for.

As I stated, I found the other types of posts frustrating, but tried to find the kindness that perhaps were coming with them. And I responded often with kindness rather than my frustration (not always, but often).

I'm still doing that.

Its been made clear I am not a right fit for this place. By suggestions that I leave (for awhile, or whatever) and by posts like the one above where motives are being read into my words instead of perhaps the goodwill and curiousity I brought with me. And really by the suggestions that I have all this other reading/studying/work to do (despite me saying I'm done with that right now).

If reading Gurdjieff and Laura's books are a requisite then this place isnt a good fit for me either.

I've done my work, years and years of it, and some of the methods are here on this site (I wont be mentioning which ones since it doesnt matter at this late stage of the game).

But please dont discount my sincerity in my respecting what works for all of YOU, and the passion and commitment in which you work it. Whatever this Cassiopaea forum is, its obviously working for many of you.

We're just not right fits for each other. Thats not a criticism, its just a matter of reality.

Namaste

 

[ana]

I wonder where do you extract the energy to continue discussing..

Obviously you will not understand at least for now


http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?l=C

Colinearity

In QFS discourse, colinearity means going in the same direction. Colinear people have a natural tendency to head in the same direction. Colinearity does not imply sameness of experience or equal level of knowledge or advancement but it does imply seeking in the same fundamental direction. The word is most often used in the context of aspiring to be of service to others.

As people work in a collinear direction, they acquire similar experiences and understandings. In general, esoteric work strives to increase one's objectivity. Thus the world and its effects, as well as the workings of the self appear increasingly in a common light to people following collinear paths.

As people near the esoteric circle of humanity, they reach a point where one can no longer both understand and disagree. This is a natural effect born of seeing the world as it is and has nothing to do with compulsion or any imposed set of beliefs.

Thus colinearity with the Work or QFS starts with usually a vague questing for something higher and develops into personally verified experiential knowledge. Colinearity is not a fixed given. People may start with the idea of their colinearity with the Work but experience may demonstrate that they in fact seek something else. Even in such a case, the seeker has made definite constatations on the self.

Colinearity is tied with the concept of immutable nature or 'consciousness director.' This inner nature predisposes one for expressing service to others or service to self. People with different consciousness directors may study together but they will interpret what they find differently. Knowing the same information does not thus make colinearity, nor does any regime or schedule of work make colinearity. Preexisting colinearity can however manifest through knowing the same information and/or working together.

Synergy is more likely to occur in a colinear group than in a non-colinear one, we could say that synergy is not the same thing as colinearity but may be its result.

Colinearity at an advanced level may lead to people forming a group in the esoteric sense, as is alluded to in the New Testament when speaking of the congregation being the body of Christ. What is gained or lost by one is gained and lost by all and where the head goes there follows the body. Also, such a group may hold more of the "stuff of knowledge" or "being" than the individuals composing it separately, thus it may be "wiser" or more "intelligent" than its constituents. We note that the esoterically colinear group is a rare special case, since ordinary groups tend to condense around the lowest common denominator.

 

[Phoenixxx]

I'm just trying to clarify mistaken assumptions about me, because that basic thing is being misunderstood (I understand MYSELF perfectly fine is perhaps what I am saying that is not being taken for what its worth).

thats all

 

[Laura]

Phoenixxx, nobody is misunderstanding you. You came, you asked about the "path to recovery," and it was pointed out to you by a few who have already traveled it.

It has also been pointed out that discussing narcissism and other pathologies is NOT the main focus of this forum, it is only part of it and it is generally taken in a larger context.

You made it clear that you didn't want to talk about pathological individuals anymore, you just wanted to talk about yourself and getting over it. If that is the case, then fine, you can talk about it in the context for which this forum was created: The Cassiopaean Experiment and the work of Gurdjieff. Those are our groundrules. It's that simple and it is stated clearly in the forum mission statement and rules which you agreed to when you clicked "join".

You made it clear that this was not what you wanted to do. Fine. I suggested to you twice, as politely as I possibly could, that now you had something of an answer, and you knew that "our way" here was not for you, then it would be best to formulate your plan and follow it. You don't need to be taxing your thoughts and emotions with endless discussion of the topic or your experiences, you need to be finding yourself in some sort of creative work.

So, get on with it.

 

[Phoenixxx]

I would be happy to, and thats my very intention at this point.

I AM being misunderstood by a good number of people (not all, some heard me loud and clear which was GREAT), its too bad I havent figured out how to state my truth clear enough. I regret that shortcoming. This forum feels like a foreign country whose language I dont yet know.

But I'm going to stop trying to change that now.

(now, if I could just figure out how to delete my account)

 

[Pierre]

Here is an excerpt from The Myth Of Sanity by Martha Stout that might be relevant to this discussion.

Victim identification presupposes the beliefs that there is a finite group of victims within the larger population, and that one is either a member of this group or not. Membership is (paradoxically) attractive because it affords, first and foremost a sense of belonging, and after that, all the special status, sympathy and considerations typically given to those who have been preyed upon and hurt. Also as an identity, as something to be, it may fill up the terrifying sense of emptiness that often follows traumas.

Unfortunately, forever holding on to an identity as victim bodes ill for the person's recovery from the very trauma. Holding fast to this way of seeing oneself and the world can keep an individual endlessly beguiled by his own misery. Also, victim identification blinds its subscribers to the leveling fact that we have all - yes, granted some more than others - but we have all been hurt at one time or another. We are in this together: patients, therapists, non-patients, everyone.

For those reasons, it is crucial that a fine balance be struck by therapists, and by anyone wishing to help those with DID, or any other dissociative disorder - in the session room, in the home, in survivors groups, and even in the newly developed context of the mental health Web sites and chat rooms. A survivor of trauma is a victim, certainly; but "victims" does not comprise the totality of her, or anyone's else identity. Helpers must support the healing process in both of its phases: the survivor must endure the discovery that she is a victim, and then she must take responsibility for being that no longer. Both parts are equally important, and in neither phase can self-protection be the primary goal. Enabling someone's long term identity as a victim robs her of an important human right, that of being responsible of her own life.

Edit: fixed typos