The Role of Meditation in the Work

[shijing]

Hi James_Taylor, and welcome to the forum. We encourage new members to make an introductory post in the Newbies section, telling us a bit about yourself and how you found us.

As for your question about Gurdjieff groups, I would suggest that you do a forum search on "Gurdjieff groups" and read through some of the threads to get an idea about how we relate to them as well as the differences that exist between many of those groups and the approach taken here on the forum.

Looking forward to your intro :)

 

[lamalamalamalama]

I recall something in the C material about using the philosophers stone as a seed for meditation. Do many people here do just that?

 

[obyvatel]

I recall something in the C material about using the philosophers stone as a seed for meditation. Do many people here do just that?

Many people here use the EE program and the POTS (Prayer of the Soul) as the seed for meditation. You can find the online version at http://eiriu-eolas.org/.

 

[Simon]

Since I didn't found this problem mentioned anywhere on the forum, I was struggling with myself if to make a new topic for my question, but this topic I'm replying to gave me so much knowledge and ideas that I would like to honor it and all peoples whom adds their two cents to it.
Especially that my problem concerns meditation process and I may call it as "Visualization Barriers". In general I've always had problems with vivid visualization - in fact - I've never had one, accept images hold ed for 2 or 3 seconds - but they were more like flashes of thing I was concentrating at (I've never saw whole thing - always some part of it was brighter/more focused). I thought this is "normal" since I did not have any access to others people "quality of visualization" and from what they were saying, I deducted that they have same thing as I did.
But lately I've found someone writing about this. This is Polish site, but I would like to put here links to three pictures which shown possible visualization barriers:
1. _http://hipnoza.rozwoj.eu/images/stories/hipnoza/artykuly/magnetyczna/usuwanie_ograniczen_transu1.jpg
2. _http://hipnoza.rozwoj.eu/images/stories/hipnoza/artykuly/magnetyczna/usuwanie_ograniczen_transu2.jpg
3. _http://hipnoza.rozwoj.eu/images/stories/hipnoza/artykuly/magnetyczna/usuwanie_ograniczen_transu3.jpg
In first (1) case matter is simple - total blockade, partially barrier and clear picture. It is pointed out that the image itself in all three cases are there and the problem is barrier alone, which is removable with concentrating on it.
In next two cases (2&3) it is not clear if the cause of image disruption is barrier or maybe image itself. There are very modest things said about it.
In case of barrier it is said to try to know the nature of the barrier by observing it, try to weaken it in one spot and than to destroy it. You can also try to find the "barrier 's supply" but I do not understand that one too well. In case of image (itself) problems, you should try to work with your imagination, intensity of colours and edges, size of image, etc.

I would like to ask if ANYBODY has ANY problems with similar barriers/blockades?? If yes, please Share how did you manage to overcome it. I would be Very grateful for all Your Experience in this matter!

Couple days ago I went into deepest trans I've ever got and I "almost" saw whole scenes behind some sort of "Black Curtain" - some of events behind it were sometimes move(!) the curtain and I saw what seemed to me like human elbow or wheel from old wagons pulled by horses and many other shapes. To be honest I have absolutely no idea what that was and those "Visualization barriers" are my best guess...

 

[Simon]

Couple days ago I went into deepest trans I've ever got and I "almost" saw whole scenes behind some sort of "Black Curtain" - some of events behind it were sometimes move(!) the curtain and I saw what seemed to me like human elbow or wheel from old wagons pulled by horses and many other shapes.

To be precise - the curtain did not "move a side" - I saw shapes of objects touching(!) the curtain, and the curtain bended (out - into my direction) a bit into the shape of things that touched it.

 

[Oxajil]

Hi Simon,

I think the ''visualization barriers'' are there for a reason. Perhaps pushing yourself in gaining a certain ''visualization'' power might work against you. Why not simply do the meditation as provided by the EE program, and just concentrate on being relaxed, concentrate on your breathing and the words from the Prayer of the Soul, and just let it all naturally happen?

You have to ask yourself; What can I gain from this practice of overcoming these barriers? If there are any barriers that can be overcome, I think it would be best to let it naturally happen and to not focus too much on it. Seeing images through meditation is natural, and best not to be distracted by them, as Laura also explained in the Eiriu Eolas thread:

Generally, when certain channels/circuits begin to clear and open, but are not yet tuned, all kinds of stuff gets picked up. It's like turning on a radio receiver or a TV that is "between stations" or receiving interference. You can see faces, hear sounds, experience all kinds of interdimensional stuff. The key is to not get distracted by that stuff. Keep your eyes and focus on the light/knowledge.

And generally, I think it is best to concentrate on your life in general, rather than on things that are complex and difficult to understand, and pretty much are beyond your direct grasp. It can be dangerous if you play with an idea you have little understanding and knowledge of.

 

[Simon]

Hi Simon,

I think the ''visualization barriers'' are there for a reason. Perhaps pushing yourself in gaining a certain ''visualization'' power might work against you. Why not simply do the meditation as provided by the EE program, and just concentrate on being relaxed, concentrate on your breathing and the words from the Prayer of the Soul, and just let it all naturally happen?

Hello Oxajil

First of all Thank you for your reply.

I am not trying to gain "certain visualization power" - all I'm trying to do is to gain ANY kind of visualization effect which are not connected to my physiology. In fact I would like to ensure myself if there is any visualization barrier at all. As I wrote before this part of my "inner work" was always poor and I hope to be able to change that.
About EE program - I am not looking for "healing, detoxing or rejuvenation program". Well, detoxing might be useful for me so thank you for this link, but in general I am looking something beyond my "physiological properties". Plus I'm fresh ex-atheist so "Prayer of the Soul" is definitively not 'on my page'. In my opinion "Prayer" is cultured/learned form of expressing your desires and pointing this expression into something beyond you - this form makes you passive. I believe that I am PART of Bigger Whole which continually experience itself in Great Cycles. Therefore I will not refer to my poor understandind of this Bigger Whole using my fantasy as "temporary describing tool" with my third densities concepts.
I am sorry if my words are hurtful for you or anyone else - I was raised in "Catholic Way" that left scars in me. Using "Prayer" form will only block me.

You have to ask yourself; What can I gain from this practice of overcoming these barriers? If there are any barriers that can be overcome, I think it would be best to let it naturally happen and to not focus too much on it. Seeing images through meditation is natural, and best not to be distracted by them, as Laura also explained in the Eiriu Eolas thread:

Generally, when certain channels/circuits begin to clear and open, but are not yet tuned, all kinds of stuff gets picked up. It's like turning on a radio receiver or a TV that is "between stations" or receiving interference. You can see faces, hear sounds, experience all kinds of interdimensional stuff. The key is to not get distracted by that stuff. Keep your eyes and focus on the light/knowledge.

"Seeing images through meditation is natural" - that's exactly my point - not for me. That's why I came up with this "visualization barrier" - and if it's not that - than I truly have no idea what to do.. so to continue answering 2 U, I have nothing to be distracted with - I am worried about it. You wrote before that maybe the visualization barrier is there for a reason - I think this reason is the way I lived my life to this point. Strong, fact-oriented atheist, proud (!) of his power of deduction, "knowledge-lover" and total ignoramus in Spirit matter. I mean I made myself empty inside because of my faith and admiration of Mind and it's power of Understanding. I gave up all things that I was unable to measure or to comprehend with my logical mind. I neglect that part of myself and I've builded my whole life on foundation without any depth. It is just "an optimal option in given circumstances".

And generally, I think it is best to concentrate on your life in general, rather than on things that are complex and difficult to understand, and pretty much are beyond your direct grasp. It can be dangerous if you play with an idea you have little understanding and knowledge of.

I am dealing with my life everyday and this is neverending process ;)
What I am looking for currently IS complex and it IS beyond my direct grasp, yes. After all those years I've spent on simplifying reality I live in, it is about time to focus on what's underneath/beyond my "direct grasp".
Even if it may be dangerous, I am prepared to take this risk. I mean in what other way can I gain "understanding and knowledge" of it all if I won't try to work with it? Theory is good for imagination or partial understanding needs, but it will never be proper equivalent of experience.

 

[thevenusian]

I am not trying to gain "certain visualization power" - all I'm trying to do is to gain ANY kind of visualization effect which are not connected to my physiology. In fact I would like to ensure myself if there is any visualization barrier at all. As I wrote before this part of my "inner work" was always poor and I hope to be able to change that.

Hi Simon,

If what you are seeking is simply to have visual effects or to see phenomena while you are meditating, I doubt anyone here is going to be able to help you. I'm not sure there is any benefit in making it a goal. Some people seem to have a natural inclination for inner visuals, while others don't. Some people have found that these things begin to happen after starting the EE practice, but this is not an important part of EE. It isn't at all a necessary part of inner work on oneself, but is a possible side-effect phenomenon. And not with everyone.

What I am looking for currently IS complex and it IS beyond my direct grasp, yes. After all those years I've spent on simplifying reality I live in, it is about time to focus on what's underneath/beyond my "direct grasp".

So why limit your search by defining it only in terms of your being able to visualize?

 

[cubbex]

I am not trying to gain "certain visualization power" - all I'm trying to do is to gain ANY kind of visualization effect which are not connected to my physiology. In fact I would like to ensure myself if there is any visualization barrier at all. As I wrote before this part of my "inner work" was always poor and I hope to be able to change that.

Hi Simon,

If what you are seeking is simply to have visual effects or to see phenomena while you are meditating, I doubt anyone here is going to be able to help you. I'm not sure there is any benefit in making it a goal. Some people seem to have a natural inclination for inner visuals, while others don't. Some people have found that these things begin to happen after starting the EE practice, but this is not an important part of EE. It isn't at all a necessary part of inner work on oneself, but is a possible side-effect phenomenon. And not with everyone.

What I am looking for currently IS complex and it IS beyond my direct grasp, yes. After all those years I've spent on simplifying reality I live in, it is about time to focus on what's underneath/beyond my "direct grasp".

So why limit your search by defining it only in terms of your being able to visualize?

Indeed. If you think your inner work was always poor that's maybe because you want every answer from the exterior when maybe, it waits inside of you. Also "trying to visualize" something I don't understand it, I can't imagine what's thinking without imagination, we communicate or think trough symbols and images so... I mean what do you try to say about visualization? like an hallucination or something?

------------------

the nickname "pescado" made me LOL

 

[Tigersoap]

"Seeing images through meditation is natural" - that's exactly my point - not for me. That's why I came up with this "visualization barrier" - and if it's not that - than I truly have no idea what to do.. so to continue answering 2 U, I have nothing to be distracted with - I am worried about it.

Hi Simon,
I may be off with these remarks but maybe you just need to use your imagination more, not to run away from daily life, but just to give yourself some positive dissociation, find music, books etc... that would help you feel emotions.
Maybe the problem is just that you're somehow scared to think that you're "dead inside" because you can't visualize but it just might be because you've suppressed your emotions so much due to your upbringing that it feels impossible to reconnect with something true ?
So the EE would probably help you, don't call it a prayer if you want to ;)

 

[RedFox]

"Seeing images through meditation is natural" - that's exactly my point - not for me. That's why I came up with this "visualization barrier" - and if it's not that - than I truly have no idea what to do.. so to continue answering 2 U, I have nothing to be distracted with - I am worried about it.

Can I asked why you are worried by this? Are you equating your inability to visualise in unguided meditation with some form of life/spiritual failing?
Have you perhaps considered the reason you 'cannot see anything' is infact perhaps like a firewall/virus killer on a computer? What you are trying to 'see' would infect your computer with a virus.....so 'not seeing' is healthy at this point?
For the record I could never 'see' anything in (unguided) meditations.....nor could I have OBE's (I had some spontaneously as a child) when I tried to force it, nor lucid dream. Fortunately I learnt that forcing such things can be harmful, so desisted before I permanently damaged myself.
I'm pretty sure that 'forcing' such issues may be abridging your own free will.
Also
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,5372.0.html

All right, MM took a
particular type of Reiki inititation or attumement today, and
I’d like to know, what was the... she had an event occur
during the attunements. I would like to know what this event
was. What this condition was that she experienced.
A: She should be careful not to “spread her self too thin.�
Q: (L) And what does that mean?
A: One does not need to cram learning, “steady as she goes.�
Q: (V) They’re punctually correct, aren’t they? (L) Yes, they
are! So, is that in a sense a caution?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Can you describe what it was that was taking place
with her? Or define it?
A: Soul bilocation.
Q: (L) So, it was not exactly a state, as the Sufis describe?
A: No.
Q: (L) And where did she bilocate to?
A: Not easily explainable.
Q: (L) Was it to another density or dimension? Or parallel
univers or spiritual domain? (T) Norfolk Naval Station?
[Laughter] Destination of bilocation! (L) Was this a beneficial
event for her?
A: No. She has been ripping open the fabric too much.
Q: (V) Do you know what that means? (TM) The fabric of
this dimension? (L) Is T correct? The fabric of this dimension?
A: Close. Each soul has its own patterning, which is held in
place by the three bodies of existence [planchette swirls a few
times] ... “thought center, spirit center and physical center,�
there are specific methodologies for adjusting these, and
travelling into or out of other planes of existence. When one
does not properly utilize these, one tears the fabric of their
trilateral continuum when they seek to travel. This can be very
problematic, and may lead to the soul being unable to
reconnect with the body, thus causing the physical center to
perish!!!

You wrote before that maybe the visualization barrier is there for a reason - I think this reason is the way I lived my life to this point. Strong, fact-oriented atheist, proud (!) of his power of deduction, "knowledge-lover" and total ignoramus in Spirit matter.

I'm the same (from the point of view of 'knowledge lover')...but you'll come to learn (if you stick around) that this forum is based on knowledge and reasoning and understanding. We approach the spiritual with a scientific/deductive attitude. In general the best attitude to take towards any 'experience' that is considered 'spiritual' (that is something you cannot define with knowledge/deduction) is that of at the very least scepticism. Lest you be caught in a trap.....4D STS just love to snare people through 'ecstatic religious/spiritual experiences' they 'cannot rationally explain'.

I mean I made myself empty inside because of my faith and admiration of Mind and it's power of Understanding. I gave up all things that I was unable to measure or to comprehend with my logical mind. I neglect that part of myself and I've builded my whole life on foundation without any depth. It is just "an optimal option in given circumstances".

Ok, so you are now swinging totally the other way....abandoning all rational reasoning for 'pure experience' right? Perhaps ask how that is any better?
Balance and caution is the key. I understand this because being someone who spent most of his life 'in thought' I swung the other way quite drastically too.

What I am looking for currently IS complex and it IS beyond my direct grasp, yes. After all those years I've spent on simplifying reality I live in, it is about time to focus on what's underneath/beyond my "direct grasp".

For me it was the though (feeling) that 'my soul was missing'...something fundamental was 'lost'. Which boils down to believing 'I was broken' at 'some level'.

Even if it may be dangerous, I am prepared to take this risk. I mean in what other way can I gain "understanding and knowledge" of it all if I won't try to work with it? Theory is good for imagination or partial understanding needs, but it will never be proper equivalent of experience.

So have you tried the EE program? So far all I see you doing is intellectually rationalising away it as an option - fixating instead on 'pure irrationality' of '(direct) experience'.....the problem is its a jungle out there. If you want a direct experience of a jungle, what are your odds of getting eaten/killed/ill if you don't know the terrain??
If you've lived all your life in a tiny village, and want a 'direct experience of a city' (ignoring the warnings of thieves and con men you've never seen, only heard of in tales) what to stop you from being prey to thieves, con men, manipulators, users and pushers?
It is hubris to presume the 'spiritual world' is no less dangerous because (from your perspective) it is intangible.

Now, you are probably reacting defensively right now....and feeling that what I have writtern is harsh. Would that person from the tiny hamlet feel any less hurt if they where warned them of the dangers of the 'city'? Would it stop them going? Would they go blindly regardless (and get 'eaten')?

Or would they do something smart.....Would they stop and ask what the dangers where, if anyone had gone before, what tools/maps existed? If anyone could help point out paths that may/may not have worked?

As to 'prepared to take the risk'....do you know what you are risking exactly?

You may or may not want to find out....
Here's a snippet from Stalking or Precis on The Good and The Evil on 'bidding'. If you cannot see how this is linked to your '(forced) experience chasing' you may want to consider it more deeply.
http://cassiopaea.org/2010/09/14/michael-topper-on-stalking/

Should there remain any reluctance to grasp this point, or some desire to conserve the liberal-humanistic proposal to which Strieber often turns (i.e. to call such things truly Negative or Evil is “simplistic,” you know) we find a passage in the Ra Material, that anticipates Strieber’s account by years and furnishes a framework before the fact, which not only fits the Strieber-entities’ behaviors like a key in a lock, but gives us a needed perspective of evaluation.

On page 21 of Volume III, The Law of One, the Ra entity characterizes a prototypical tactic of the [4th Density STS], that of “bidding.” “Bidding” is described in such a way to make it clear that Strieber’s experience represents a concrete instance of the phenomenon.

“Bidding” is a contest of will, rendering the consciousness that obeys into enslavement through its own free will. It is a command of obedience, precisely such as that issued without explanation against Strieber’s lust for sweets. It’s sole purpose is to bend the subject into accepting the command, the actual content of the order being largely beside the point. […] To possess a legion of servants in this way is an actual nourishment to the centers and systems of 4th density; a kind of “food-chain pyramid.” […]

Thus we find the Strieber entity virtually paraphrasing the earlier Ra recitation of the modus operandi that identifies the Negative beings – the failure to exact obedience bears punishable consequence. It is a continuing illustration of the way in which the Negative polarity extorts the desired obedience – and thus soul capture – through manipulation of Love.

In the end, you will do what you will do.

*edit* clarity/spelling

 

[Simon]

Hi Simon,

So why limit your search by defining it only in terms of your being able to visualize?

Hello Venusian
Yes, you are right. After reading couple times my own posts and all answers I realised that I was trying to Start my change using "old way". I had goal, I got all tools I thought I needed ["second hand knowledge" from many different sites and .mp3 files] and I had a Plan. So mechanically..
It's like trying to reach point in middle of rolled tape. You have to unroll Whole to reach desired point. I see that now. I noticed that it enriches your knowledge about yourself when U read Ur own comments ;) U may see even some mind/perception loops U went into.

Indeed. If you think your inner work was always poor that's maybe because you want every answer from the exterior when maybe, it waits inside of you. Also "trying to visualize" something I don't understand it, I can't imagine what's thinking without imagination, we communicate or think trough symbols and images so... I mean what do you try to say about visualization? like an hallucination or something?

------------------

the nickname "pescado" made me LOL

Hello Prometeo
Yes, I do hope that there are answers in me. But I start to think that forcing changes is not the way - I can't "pick" change and implement it. It won't work with me.
I was writing about vivid visualizations during over hour meditation. I have very nice .mp3 materials but I could not gain described effects. I couldn't see myself into told places. In fact all I saw was Black Wall.

"Seeing images through meditation is natural" - that's exactly my point - not for me. That's why I came up with this "visualization barrier" - and if it's not that - than I truly have no idea what to do.. so to continue answering 2 U, I have nothing to be distracted with - I am worried about it.

Hi Simon,
I may be off with these remarks but maybe you just need to use your imagination more, not to run away from daily life, but just to give yourself some positive dissociation, find music, books etc... that would help you feel emotions.
Maybe the problem is just that you're somehow scared to think that you're "dead inside" because you can't visualize but it just might be because you've suppressed your emotions so much due to your upbringing that it feels impossible to reconnect with something true ?
So the EE would probably help you, don't call it a prayer if you want to ;)

Hello Tigersoap
I do feel like solid block. It was an advantage in material world. Thank you for your comment. U are perfectly right. It is all about emotions. To be honest I did not treated them well.

"Reconnecting with something true"

Yes

"Seeing images through meditation is natural" - that's exactly my point - not for me. That's why I came up with this "visualization barrier" - and if it's not that - than I truly have no idea what to do.. so to continue answering 2 U, I have nothing to be distracted with - I am worried about it.

Can I asked why you are worried by this? Are you equating your inability to visualise in unguided meditation with some form of life/spiritual failing?
Have you perhaps considered the reason you 'cannot see anything' is infact perhaps like a firewall/virus killer on a computer? What you are trying to 'see' would infect your computer with a virus.....so 'not seeing' is healthy at this point?
For the record I could never 'see' anything in (unguided) meditations.....nor could I have OBE's (I had some spontaneously as a child) when I tried to force it, nor lucid dream. Fortunately I learnt that forcing such things can be harmful, so desisted before I permanently damaged myself.
I'm pretty sure that 'forcing' such issues may be abridging your own free will.

Hello RedFox
I was worried because in my approach I tied visualization effects with my "inner properties" or meaby "Potetniality of my Spirit Life". It was just another quantification attempt of mine. Bad habit in this work.
I have to admit that I do not fully understand how "forcing visualization" may abridging my own free will. Generally your comparison is interesting - as if it was protection matter.

You wrote before that maybe the visualization barrier is there for a reason - I think this reason is the way I lived my life to this point. Strong, fact-oriented atheist, proud (!) of his power of deduction, "knowledge-lover" and total ignoramus in Spirit matter.

I'm the same (from the point of view of 'knowledge lover')...but you'll come to learn (if you stick around) that this forum is based on knowledge and reasoning and understanding. We approach the spiritual with a scientific/deductive attitude. In general the best attitude to take towards any 'experience' that is considered 'spiritual' (that is something you cannot define with knowledge/deduction) is that of at the very least scepticism. Lest you be caught in a trap.....4D STS just love to snare people through 'ecstatic religious/spiritual experiences' they 'cannot rationally explain'.

Yes, knowledge but not one based on solid, objective proof as I understand it. Feelings should lead the way. Mind is their Helper.
4D STS are something I just do not take into account in my everyday life. I wouldn't even know how. I hope I am not interesting for them.

I mean I made myself empty inside because of my faith and admiration of Mind and it's power of Understanding. I gave up all things that I was unable to measure or to comprehend with my logical mind. I neglect that part of myself and I've builded my whole life on foundation without any depth. It is just "an optimal option in given circumstances".

OK, so you are now swinging totally the other way....abandoning all rational reasoning for 'pure experience' right? Perhaps ask how that is any better?
Balance and caution is the key. I understand this because being someone who spent most of his life 'in thought' I swung the other way quite drastically too.

I guess... I may reached opposite extremity. I think that Balancing is the way.

Even if it may be dangerous, I am prepared to take this risk. I mean in what other way can I gain "understanding and knowledge" of it all if I won't try to work with it? Theory is good for imagination or partial understanding needs, but it will never be proper equivalent of experience.

So have you tried the EE program? So far all I see you doing is intellectually rationalising away it as an option - fixating instead on 'pure irrationality' of '(direct) experience'.....the problem is its a jungle out there. If you want a direct experience of a jungle, what are your odds of getting eaten/killed/ill if you don't know the terrain??
If you've lived all your life in a tiny village, and want a 'direct experience of a city' (ignoring the warnings of thieves and con men you've never seen, only heard of in tales) what to stop you from being prey to thieves, con men, manipulators, users and pushers?
It is hubris to presume the 'spiritual world' is no less dangerous because (from your perspective) it is intangible.

Now, you are probably reacting defensively right now....and feeling that what I have writtern is harsh. Would that person from the tiny hamlet feel any less hurt if they where warned them of the dangers of the 'city'? Would it stop them going? Would they go blindly regardless (and get 'eaten')?

Or would they do something smart.....Would they stop and ask what the dangers where, if anyone had gone before, what tools/maps existed? If anyone could help point out paths that may/may not have worked?

As to 'prepared to take the risk'....do you know what you are risking exactly?

I would felt/react defensively if I wouldn't agree with you. But before I reached this point of your comment - after all b4, including mine own - It was my conclusion as well. Rudimentary Work is necessary. And honestly I have no idea what I am risking..

You may or may not want to find out....
Here's a snippet from Stalking or Precis on The Good and The Evil on 'bidding'. If you cannot see how this is linked to your '(forced) experience chasing' you may want to consider it more deeply.
http://cassiopaea.org/2010/09/14/michael-topper-on-stalking/

Should there remain any reluctance to grasp this point, or some desire to conserve the liberal-humanistic proposal to which Strieber often turns (i.e. to call such things truly Negative or Evil is “simplistic,” you know) we find a passage in the Ra Material, that anticipates Strieber’s account by years and furnishes a framework before the fact, which not only fits the Strieber-entities’ behaviors like a key in a lock, but gives us a needed perspective of evaluation.

On page 21 of Volume III, The Law of One, the Ra entity characterizes a prototypical tactic of the [4th Density STS], that of “bidding.” “Bidding” is described in such a way to make it clear that Strieber’s experience represents a concrete instance of the phenomenon.

“Bidding” is a contest of will, rendering the consciousness that obeys into enslavement through its own free will. It is a command of obedience, precisely such as that issued without explanation against Strieber’s lust for sweets. It’s sole purpose is to bend the subject into accepting the command, the actual content of the order being largely beside the point. […] To possess a legion of servants in this way is an actual nourishment to the centers and systems of 4th density; a kind of “food-chain pyramid.” […]

Thus we find the Strieber entity virtually paraphrasing the earlier Ra recitation of the modus operandi that identifies the Negative beings – the failure to exact obedience bears punishable consequence. It is a continuing illustration of the way in which the Negative polarity extorts the desired obedience – and thus soul capture – through manipulation of Love.

In the end, you will do what you will do.

*edit* clarity/spelling

I understand. I will observe myself from this angle.

Once again Thank you all. U hepled me much unlooping my thinking.

 

[cubbex]

Hello Prometeo
Yes, I do hope that there are answers in me. But I start to think that forcing changes is not the way - I can't "pick" change and implement it. It won't work with me.
I was writing about vivid visualizations during over hour meditation. I have very nice .mp3 materials but I could not gain described effects. I couldn't see myself into told places. In fact all I saw was Black Wall.

Of course we can't force ourselves. Everything has to flow naturally, just add info to yourself it's the best way I tried and well, things happen, one day you wake up understanding it.

 

[whitecoast]

I've been back from the meditation retreat I mentioned in Travelogues for almost two weeks now. (Thread is here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24246.0.html)

I had an excellent, relaxing, and productive meditation retreat. I've also had an interesting breakthrough in some of my bad habits. I've mentioned many times on the forum here that I do struggle with a gaming habit, especially competitive games that can get very stressful! After doing a bunch of EE and vipassana meditation while at the retreat, I actually found that a certain type of "cord" has been cut. I've only played games twice since getting back, which is a dramatic drop from playing games almost every day or day and a half, and I miss it less and less. :)

Another interesting thing I found during the retreat was that I've started to actually take a lot of pleasure in doing vipassana meditation (I used to struggle with 15 minutes, but now an hour is like nothing). In the teachings of Buddhism, it is stated that there are three types of pleasure: pleasure from satisfying desires, pleasure of form, and pleasure of the formless (which is achieved in a state of theirs known as jhana). Part of the Buddhist path is in conditioning the mind to take part in the form and formless pleasures as a means of overcoming attachment and identification with the pursuit of desires, as a sort of means to an end (their end being the cessation of suffering).

But what concerns me is, could taking pleasure in navel-gazing as a substitute for other types of (more harmful) pleasures start to become an issue on its own, similar to how kundalini is treated in the fourth way literature? In a nutshell, could the energy I'm saving in trying to be impeccable be wasted by focusing my attention on the blissful pleasures of meditation? As another draw into illusion, or an incentive to disengage from the world? I know the beliefs about renunciation and "letting go of the world" that the Theravada Buddhists practice, and I want no part of that.

Even though I've have many benefits and increased reality-engagement recently (even just two weeks after, I've been meditating more, getting up earlier to be more productive in the mornings, gaming far less, et cetera), it is something I wanted to bring up here.

One thing I realized while typing all this out is that I should probably remember that meditation is a means to an end, and my end is to reach higher levels of being/knowing to better serve others. I guess from that perspective enjoying meditation isn't necessarily a bad thing unless I don't set it aside once its job is done in helping me (in whatever way it does) become more STO-oriented.

*Shrugs* Does it stop being part of The Work once it starts feeling less like work? :P

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Whitecoast,
Maybe setting aside a fixed time every day for meditation would allay your present concerns? It is also possible that after practicing the meditation regularly for a few months, the blissful pleasure component will reduce and you would then practice it as a useful routine activity.