The Science of Reincarnation

[Approaching Infinity]

Does this author mean 'persisting' is a voluntary thing because one believed in 'Karma'?

No, they just mean that behavioral patterns persist between incarnations, whatever the reason.

Not sure how they measure all of this to even come to a conclusion. The sample size is so small and so many unknowable's in the process, any conclusion will be premature.

The sample is the sum total of cases of children who remember past lives.

 

[Mark7]

Interesting tweet on the lack of an obvious connection between reincarnation and what people think of as standard karma:

Moravieff said something in Gnosis I about a soul's reincarnations being like the same film being played over and over with variations.
'Seth' as Jane Roberts said that all reincarnations happen simultaneously from a higher perspective, which is in keeping with the C's saying that time is an illusion based on the perception of the observer, (I paraphrase) That could explain why there is no apparent Karma at work in some cases, it's the same life, 'Cosmic Groundhog Life' instead of 'Groundhog Day'. One question: how would reincarnation change once a soul enters 4th density and retains memory across reincarnations? We are not going to access everything from 3rd density.

 

[Jones]

One description, and I can't find it now though suspect that it was on Patrick Rodriguez website at one stage, referred to karma as being stuck energy. Colin E. Davis from Shadow Tech, even though he's not referring to reincarnation or karma per se, says that being stuck happens when the lesson hasn't been extracted from the situation.

 

[seek10]

No, they just mean that behavioral patterns persist between incarnations, whatever the reason.

The sample is the sum total of cases of children who remember past lives.

In India (atleast 30 years back), acceptance of reincarnation concept is like acceptance of the existence of air. Yes, people can argue one way or other when their try to fit in their real life observations to remove 'sacred overtones' of the scriptures. I head only few cases of kids remembering their past life. The reasons for it could be many - It is not sensational as every body accepted it , thus not well documented, issues with basic needs ( popularly knows as Roti (bread), Kapada (cloth) and Makaan (housing) ) etc.

But In the West, Reincarnation is sensational news, which is understandable given the monotheistic influences. Still it is so smaller sample size w.r.t population.

How did it came to be like that? In a way, answer is simple. Even Druids believed in reincarnation, but wiped out by Currents of Christianity and their counterparts 'Brahmins', who 'survived' onslaughts on their theology (or way of life) kept it alive. This competition belong to different periods that includes secular Buddhist Mauryan period (400 BCE -100BCE and later) and Muslim onslaught (11th century - 18th century AD).

 

[BHelmet]

One question: how would reincarnation change once a soul enters 4th density and retains memory across reincarnations?

If there is a seemingly long 1000 year period of “Jesus” returning to teach and a window of choosing, that might indicate 4D lives are “longer”?
Although 4D might be less stress on the soul, it still might be draining in a lesser way than 3D, requiring occasional rejuvenation through reincarnation. Perhaps reincarnation is a misnomer in 4D terms since the carne/meat/physical aspect of the soul getting a new vehicle sounds much more 3D-ish. ( Carne Asada gets a new meaning. ) I suppose there could be other reasons for a soul container reboot such as a test of lessons learned: can a soul retain its continuity through a high level reset. QC for 6D entry.

We are not going to access everything from 3rd density.

Budda-boom! A reason to be wary of absolute certainty.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

But In the West, Reincarnation is sensational news, which is understandable given the monotheistic influences. Still it is so smaller sample size w.r.t population.

Yes, it is a small sample, but representative of the type "children who remember past lives." Most of the original cases studied by Stevenson were in cultures where reincarnation is accepted as real, and even then, children who remember past lives are in the minority. One of the hypotheses is that the reason these children remember is that many (most?) of them died unusual, traumatic deaths. I'm not familiar with the latest stats, and if that still holds up or not, but if so it would suggest that this type is not representative of people in general, but only those who meet a number of criteria, like violent death.

 

[bozadi]

Even C's will not say what are 'level 1' lessons one has to learn. That is free will violation.

I will say "yes and no" for this suggestion (that "they can't say").

Q: (L) Well, that leads back to: what is the wave going to do to expand this awareness? Because, if the wave is what "gets you there," what makes this so?

A: No. It is like this: After you have completed all your lessons in "third grade," where do you go?

Q: (L) So, it is a question of...

A: Answer, please.

Q: (L) You go to fourth grade.

A: Okay, now, do you have to already be in 4th grade in order to be allowed to go there? Answer.

Q: (L) No. But you have to know all the 3rd density things...

A: Yes. More apropos: you have to have learned all of the lessons.

Q: (L) What kind of lessons are we talking about here?

A: Karmic and simple understandings.

Q: (L) What are the key elements of these understandings, and are they fairly universal?

A: They are universal.

Q: (L) What are they?

A: We cannot tell you that.

As you suggested, the C's say they can't tell what those "karmic, simple, universal" understandings/lessons of 3D are. But, at the same time, they probably described or mentioned numerous such lessons directly or indirectly. One might even say the sessions are full of them maybe?

Probably the lessons are too easy or obvious nominally. But not so easy to take/learn due to the conditions adverse for STO polarization, that is, torrential incentives for egotistical thinking. There's the free will factor. And I think there's also some type of "spoiler" factor that makes it somewhat difficult for the C's to mention the specific lessons of a specific person in many situations?

 

[seek10]

As you suggested, the C's say they can't tell what those "karmic, simple, universal" understandings/lessons of 3D are. But, at the same time, they probably described or mentioned numerous such lessons directly or indirectly. One might even say the sessions are full of them maybe?

I think we need to make distinction between 6D STO unified thought forms and mere 3D soul with their familial limitations, programs in this physical environment. In this specific context, whether 3D priest is able to tell some body of their lessons consistently day after day?. I don't think so.

 

[bozadi]

I think we need to make distinction between 6D STO unified thought forms and mere 3D soul with their familial limitations, programs in this physical environment. In this specific context, whether 3D priest is able to tell some body of their lessons consistently day after day?. I don't think so.

You can be right about the situation with the priest. I just wanted to share my belief that although the C's say they can't specify the lessons of 3D, they seem to have been trying to help us with our lessons all along the way. I think they mean to say "We can't offer you a formal table of contents for 3D curriculum" either collectively or, rather, individually. They seem to have shared so many clues or guidance about collective 3D lessons, leaving it to individuals to draw their own conclusions for their specific case. Also, I believe that lessons, like almost all else, have a multi-dimensional nature, which potentially will further complicate a specification on lessons.

Also to consider:

Q: (L) ... What is the criteria to be a 4th density candidate?

A: There is no criteria. A criteria implies a judgment system which implies that an individual or individuals are watching over the progress of other individuals. It is merely part of the natural process of learning, which you are in total control of from beginning to end, in one sense. In that sense, you choose to be in the environment you are in, which does not indicate any recommendation of the environment by any higher source, or, conversely, any condemnation of the environment by any higher source, but merely the existence of the environment and your choice to exist within it. Therefore, being a candidate merely means that you have chosen to be a candidate for ANY level of density, be it first, second, etc. It is a choice of the self to continue that learning pathway.

(this is a session which Laura warns was a direct trans channelling through 'Frank', necessitating further 'grains of salt')

82.29 Questioner: You stated in a much earlier session that it is necessary to polarize anything more than 50% service to self to be harvestable fourth-density positive. Was this condition the same at the time before the veil? The same percentage polarization?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this working.

The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator. In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

 

[bozadi]

In the excerpt from Ra, the questioner says "more than 50% service to self" although he meant to say "more than 50% service to others" (edited/corrected in the printed book, I believe). Similar errors are apparently made by Ra, which seems to attribute such errors to the problems suffered by the 'instrument' in most cases. Sometimes, any strong bias on the part of the receiver group individuals might also have caused such errors naturally. I noticed the answers of Ra to the questions about the 'Tunguska event' in session 17 sound very 'off' (removed from the book, I think) but this is a different topic.

 

[JeanSchemit]

I find this sort of thing so funny. How to exit by a person who is still here.



So if it is someone else’s fault we keep getting sucked back in, that equates to a fundamental issue of irresponsibility, I think. “It’s not really MY fault” which kind of negates any individual power and choice we might have.



Who says? Maybe we do have correct understanding in returning here due to our utter denseness and unwillingness to accept and learn the lessons? And what is a detrimental soul choice? Sometimes suffering is the only path to mercy.


Question: Is 4D our only next higher option? What do we really get out of repeated lives that are filled with lies and suffering?

Sometimes the hardest lessons are to see our own lies and that our suffering can be at our own hands.

It may be unbelievable, but it seems to correspond to what the Gnostics said about these archons and the demiurge: they prevent souls from leaving the material realm.

L. Ron Hubbard modernized this story and created his Scientology cult, and today we now have this “reincarnation trap” theory. It sounds far-fetched, but more and more remote viewers have seen this reincarnation trap and the “energy grid” that surrounds the earth. The Farsight Institute even made a video about it:

Still hard to believe, maybe they're right, maybe not but just ask yourself, if we are a fraction of god, then why do we need to learn lessons since God sees and knows everything? I hope the answer is not something like "out of boredom".

 

[axj]

The Farsight Institute even made a video about it

Courtney Brown's Farsight remote viewing organization is very suspect in many ways. Look up what the C's said about him or previous discussions about him here on the forum.

 

[JeanSchemit]

Courtney Brown's Farsight remote viewing organization is very suspect in many ways. Look up what the C's said about him or previous discussions about him here on the forum.

Thanks, I've just read the November 23, 1996 session where the C's said it's an agent provocateur, it's a little bit disappointing and I apparently forgot about this detail since I've read the 1996 C's transcript book 9 years ago.

However, he wasn't the only one who came with this conclusion when remote viewing and from my point of view, I will not dismiss the idea of a group simply because an agent provocateur decided to join and disrupt them. Some names that come to mind are Robert Monroe, Isabella Greene and Brett Stuart (and I'm sure there are many more which I don't know about) If you have 45 min, Brett made an interesting video (now deleted from his channel) about his reincarnation trap remote viewing session:

Fun fact: some time after he released this video, he apparently received death threats and got stalked on the street, he subsequently deleted 99% of his RV video from his channel and he is now focusing on creating movies with AI. Quite a drastic career change.

 

[axj]

However, he wasn't the only one who came with this conclusion when remote viewing and from my point of view, I will not discard the idea from a group just because an agent provocateur decide to join and disrupt them. Some names that come to mind are Robert Monroe, Isabella Greene and Brett Stuart

Robert Monroe never talked about "reincarnation traps" or anything similar, as far as I know. And what he did was not remote viewing, but astral projection (out of body experiences).

Remote viewing itself can be accurate or it can be complete fantasy, eg. the remote viewers see what the 'tasker' who gave them the target expects, believes or imagines.

The C's also never mentioned anything like "reincarnation traps".

 

[whitecoast]

Still hard to believe, maybe they're right, maybe not but just ask yourself, if we are a fraction of god, then why do we need to learn lessons since God sees and knows everything? I hope the answer is not something like "out of boredom".

I find attempting to collapse complex topics like theology and philosophy of mind into these type of “checkmate, atheist/christian/buddhist/positivist” apologetics tend to do more to reduce understanding than expand it.

Ian McGilchrist in The Master and His Emissary, R.G. Collingwood in Speculum Mentis, and Whitehead’s Process Philosophy all provide what I find to be satisfactory answers to this question. To say nothing of The Wave, of course. Each of these items has its own thread and podcast discussion, sometimes several, which are worth reading in addition to the books themselves.

If I was to humour your question, I suppose my pithy response would be that knowing is a function of learning and presupposes it but not vice versa.