The Vegetarian Myth

[Possibility of Being]

I write through Google translate. It doesn't always translate smoothly. Sometimes it turns out complete crap, but I don't even know about it. If anything, direct your complaints to those bastards from Google. ;). My head often "burns" with or without reason.

Try DeepL as suggested; it's not perfect but better than G-gle. But keep in mind that jokes, irony and sarcasm can be lost in translation. Well, even with a good translation some jokes are hard to be understood within a multinational community like this one. One more thing that may help is posting both versions - the English translation first, followed by the original embedded in spoiler tags, like this:

Spoiler: In Ru

Место для вашего сообщения в оригинале.

You can find the option under the three vertical dots.

There are Russian speakers here, so if we have the original text, someone can help in case a misunderstanding occurs.

 

[katarinak]

I've been here on this forum for quite a while and today I was reading the discussion on the November session with Cs. I was surprised to see that the link to vegetarianism and brain tumours was discussed. That's why I went to check out the thread on vegetarianism as well. And what I see here is the same banter between people who eat meat and those who don't.

I think, and Cs have said, that by being different and individual, something different is good for everyone. For someone it's a diet with more meat in it, for someone without meat.I see odin433's message as a joke and a hint that it's not the diet that moves us up, it's that it's worthwhile to make the effort to work on your inner.

I've been a vegetarian for 12 years and I feel much better than before. Also, health-wise, I don't get sick like I used to(not even through the COVID period). I have to admit that 10-12 years ago I perceived the vegetarian way of life as "something more" compared to people who ate meat. Once in a vegan restaurant, a lady asked me if I was vegan. I said that I was vegetarian. She replied that I would definitely one day "take it to the next level" and become vegan. This was the turning point. I realized that to feel special because you don't eat meat and even more special because you don't eat dairy, eggs, cheese... is pretty stupid.

So please don't be angry with me, but I had to write it here to this discussion that it is not good if someone with a different opinion is dismissed. Today, I still order a meatless food at a restaurant, but I no longer point out that I don't eat meat. It is not good to create differences between ourselves because of whether or not we eat meat. I think if one can listen to his/her inner self, he/she can figure out what's good for him/her (I'm thinking in terms of diet at the moment).

 

[Ruth]

Okay, guys. My joke was a success, you can see for yourself. Someone began to hate me, most reacted purely mechanically. I'm absolutely not mad at you, my spirit has been outside of "your world" for a long time, you just can't get to me. I wish you to react more consciously and, accordingly, be a little better than you have shown yourself now.

Um, we actually don't care. If you want to be part of this forum it requires you to actually .... "grow a set", whatever that means. That isn't anyone elses business, but your own.

 

[iamthatis]

I've been here on this forum for quite a while and today I was reading the discussion on the November session with Cs. I was surprised to see that the link to vegetarianism and brain tumours was discussed. That's why I went to check out the thread on vegetarianism as well. And what I see here is the same banter between people who eat meat and those who don't.

I think, and Cs have said, that by being different and individual, something different is good for everyone. For someone it's a diet with more meat in it, for someone without meat.I see odin433's message as a joke and a hint that it's not the diet that moves us up, it's that it's worthwhile to make the effort to work on your inner.

I've been a vegetarian for 12 years and I feel much better than before. Also, health-wise, I don't get sick like I used to(not even through the COVID period). I have to admit that 10-12 years ago I perceived the vegetarian way of life as "something more" compared to people who ate meat. Once in a vegan restaurant, a lady asked me if I was vegan. I said that I was vegetarian. She replied that I would definitely one day "take it to the next level" and become vegan. This was the turning point. I realized that to feel special because you don't eat meat and even more special because you don't eat dairy, eggs, cheese... is pretty stupid.

So please don't be angry with me, but I had to write it here to this discussion that it is not good if someone with a different opinion is dismissed. Today, I still order a meatless food at a restaurant, but I no longer point out that I don't eat meat. It is not good to create differences between ourselves because of whether or not we eat meat. I think if one can listen to his/her inner self, he/she can figure out what's good for him/her (I'm thinking in terms of diet at the moment).

Well, feeling better isn't always the best reason for doing something, is it? Laura has written in the Wave that our Higher Self is accessed by making conscious choices based on a spiritual perception of objective reality. That often means feeling worse, sometimes a lot worse, AKA suffering, by choosing to do what is right regardless of how we feel about it.

Thinking in terms of a school metaphor, it sure does 'feel better' to skip a lesson rather than to sit down and learn it! Less stress, sure, but no growth.

About different opinions being dismissed, it's important to do exactly this, as part of the collective network attempt to describe and navigate objective reality in a world of subjective illusion. If we were to act on the basis that everyone's opinion is of equal value, then we're in the postmodernist situation where 'my truth' is supreme, AKA there is no truth, emotions are a justifiable means making decisions, facts don't matter, and reality is what you make of it. In other words, it's a recipe for wishful thinking. If someone's opinion is dismissed on the basis of the facts, and they feel hurt, it's often because they were overly-identified with it, and haven't done enough Work to be able to take constructive criticism.

So yeah, keep on being a vegetarian if you choose, but I think it's a mistake on the basis that animal fat and protein is optimal for human health, which isn't really an opinion as it's backed up by decades of research. If you don't like that, fair enough, I didn't like lots of things that I have changed since I first started out, so I can understand the resistance. What I'd say is that it's important to consider that every single one of our long-standing life choices when we first begin the Work should be held up to scrutiny, and often intense scrutiny, on the basis of the C's info, and the knowledge gathered by the network here. The reason why is because our minds can be controlled by 4D STS, and our culture has been shaped by psychopaths, so we can't trust our mode of perception and therefore our choices until we've tuned our reading instrument to be able to question our mind itself and the extent to which we've been manipulated. That means being willing to sacrifice who we are in service of who we might become.

 

[Keit]

I write through Google translate. It doesn't always translate smoothly. Sometimes it turns out complete crap, but I don't even know about it. If anything, direct your complaints to those bastards from Google. ;). My head often "burns" with or without reason.

I echo the recommendation to use Deepl. Yandex has a pretty good translator too.

And also about sarcasm. It looks like you may use it a lot in your communication. And for Russian speakers it is normal. But it is important to remember that in most cases sarcasm does not translate well into other languages. There is even a joke on this subject:

“Russians use so much sarcasm in speech that at first it can be taken at face value. They use sarcasm all the time. Don't be frightened. One day you'll understand, maybe.”

That is, here we should take into account not only language differences, but also the difference in mentality. In face-to-face communication at least you can pay attention to intonation, gestures and facial expressions, but in such online communication it turns out that you should try to be very clear.

For clarity, you can do as I do. Write the English translation, and in the spoiler put the text in Russian. If anything, Russian-speaking forum members can read and explain.

And since the main purpose of this forum is self-development, I recommend you to read the following article on the hidden motives of using sarcasm. I will not presume that this article may be relevant for you. It may not be relevant after all. But it might be useful.

Spoiler: НА РУССКОМ

Я присоединяюсь к рекомендации использовать Deepl. У Яндекса тоже неплохой переводчик.

И еще про сарказм. Выглядит, что вы, возможно, часто используете его в своем общении. И для русскоговорящих это нормальное явлние. Но важно помнить, что в большинстве случаев сарказм плохо переводится на другие языки. Даже есть вот такая шутка на эту тему:



То есть, тут надо учитывать не только языковые различия, а также разницу в менталитете. В личном общении хоть можно обращать внимание на интонацию, жестикуляцию и выражение лица, а в таком онлайн общении получается, что надо стараться быть предельно ясными.

Для пущей ясности, вы можете делать как я. Писать английский перевод, а в спойлере текс на русском. Если что, русскоговорящие участники форума могут прочитать и пояснить.

Ну и так как главной целью этого форума является саморазвитие, то рекомендую почитать следующую статью на тему скрытых мотивов использования сарказма. Не берусь предпологать, что в этой статье может быть релевантно именно для вас. Может быть ничего. Но может быть и будет полезным.

 

[katarinak]

Well, feeling better isn't always the best reason for doing something, is it? Laura has written in the Wave that our Higher Self is accessed by making conscious choices based on a spiritual perception of objective reality. That often means feeling worse, sometimes a lot worse, AKA suffering, by choosing to do what is right regardless of how we feel about it.

Thinking in terms of a school metaphor, it sure does 'feel better' to skip a lesson rather than to sit down and learn it! Less stress, sure, but no growth.

About different opinions being dismissed, it's important to do exactly this, as part of the collective network attempt to describe and navigate objective reality in a world of subjective illusion. If we were to act on the basis that everyone's opinion is of equal value, then we're in the postmodernist situation where 'my truth' is supreme, AKA there is no truth, emotions are a justifiable means making decisions, facts don't matter, and reality is what you make of it. In other words, it's a recipe for wishful thinking. If someone's opinion is dismissed on the basis of the facts, and they feel hurt, it's often because they were overly-identified with it, and haven't done enough Work to be able to take constructive criticism.

So yeah, keep on being a vegetarian if you choose, but I think it's a mistake on the basis that animal fat and protein is optimal for human health, which isn't really an opinion as it's backed up by decades of research. If you don't like that, fair enough, I didn't like lots of things that I have changed since I first started out, so I can understand the resistance. What I'd say is that it's important to consider that every single one of our long-standing life choices when we first begin the Work should be held up to scrutiny, and often intense scrutiny, on the basis of the C's info, and the knowledge gathered by the network here. The reason why is because our minds can be controlled by 4D STS, and our culture has been shaped by psychopaths, so we can't trust our mode of perception and therefore our choices until we've tuned our reading instrument to be able to question our mind itself and the extent to which we've been manipulated. That means being willing to sacrifice who we are in service of who we might become.

The reason I found the courage to post in this thread opposing vegaterianism is the realization that seeing one side or the other as the one and only correct side is not, in my opinion, STO. Everyone has the right to choose what they think is right due to their free will. Even you that you will eat meat and me that I won't.

BTW my decision not to eat meat it was "accidental" and for serious health reasons. And while maybe not eating meat also made those health problems went away, I felt better and stopped being sick, therefore I really don't see any real reason to go back to eating meat yet. It was definitely a life lesson for me to stop eating meat.

You write about doing what one doesn't like. Yes, even this post in this thread is not a pleasure for me because I write in a place where 99 people have some opinion and mine is different. So it's only a matter of time before one hits a wall. This is definitely a lesson for me as well, because if you are not with us, you are going against us.

I believe that I don't have the "essence of a cow" in me, nor am I the OP, and that we should act on the basis that everyone's opinion has value, because how are you going to learn to distinguish between what is real and what is true? Only through your own experience. And just because in a group of 100 people 99 people have 1 opinion and 1 person has a different opinion doesn't mean that 1 person is wrong.

 

[Chu]

BTW my decision not to eat meat it was "accidental" and for serious health reasons. And while maybe not eating meat also made those health problems went away, I felt better and stopped being sick, therefore I really don't see any real reason to go back to eating meat yet. It was definitely a life lesson for me to stop eating meat.

You write about doing what one doesn't like. Yes, even this post in this thread is not a pleasure for me because I write in a place where 99 people have some opinion and mine is different. So it's only a matter of time before one hits a wall. This is definitely a lesson for me as well, because if you are not with us, you are going against us.

I believe that I don't have the "essence of a cow" in me, nor am I the OP, and that we should act on the basis that everyone's opinion has value, because how are you going to learn to distinguish between what is real and what is true? Only through your own experience. And just because in a group of 100 people 99 people have 1 opinion and 1 person has a different opinion doesn't mean that 1 person is wrong.

If being a vegetarian is something you want to do (and you have your reasons), then that's fine, I think. As you well know, our research (and personal experiences) tell us that not being one is better for most of us. BUT, there is something to say for the power of belief, and for people's systems not all being equal (and by that I'm not implying you are "less" in any way). Some people just don't do well on meat (even if they are VERY rare, according to the research I've come across. Usually it's due to specific genetic mutations, for example). Keep in mind, though, that in some cases, it's not that meat is bad for them, but that they have a digestive issue of one sort of another, and that fixing that, allows them later to digest meat better. Also, we have to take into accounts the benefits at a physical level, yes, but also at mental and emotional level.

That said, we know people who, after being vegetarians for many years and feeling very well like that, started eating just a little bit of meat to see what happened, and felt even better. Or there are those who eat a bit of meat not for the "pleasure" of it, but because they resonate with the idea that animals have a higher consciousness and they need it. It's a personal choice, though. So, the only thing I would say is that, in my humble opinion, it's best to never be closed to one option or the other. As you gather more data, more life experiences or whatever, you might find that your organism (or your mind and emotional states!) need something different, and that's ok.

I do like what you wrote about not showing off or making it obvious to others that you are a vegetarian. THAT's a bad kind of vegetarian, if you ask me! The ones that take the moral high ground. Lierre Keith described them very well in her book, The Vegetarian Myth. I think it's worth reading, if you haven't. Not to convince you of anything, but simply to acquire knowledge of the types of "fanatic" vegetarians there are, and why you don't want to be one of them.

Anyway, just some thoughts, for what they are worth.

 

[katarinak]

Keep in mind, though, that in some cases, it's not that meat is bad for them, but that they have a digestive issue of one sort of another, and that fixing that, allows them later to digest meat better. Also, we have to take into accounts the benefits at a physical level, yes, but also at mental and emotional level.

Dear Chu, thank you very much for your words, I appreciate it

Yes, I understand that, and I'm not actually opposed to eating meat. It's about how I feel about it in the future. On a physical, mental and emotional level, I see a significant improvement from when I was eating meat. Again, it probably sounds different, but I really don't see even the slightest sign of deterioration in any of those areas. The only thing I perceived was a grounding that was weaker, but I've managed to adjust that over the 12 years.

So, the only thing I would say is that, in my humble opinion, it's best to never be closed to one option or the other. As you gather more data, more life experiences or whatever, you might find that your organism (or your mind and emotional states!) need something different, and that's ok.

I'm not closing and thank you for the reminder, I believe that time will show how it will go on. Overall I think that food is just something that keeps our bodies alive and it's what our insides tell us that matters. I perceive that it's okay to eat meat, whoever likes it and is comfortable with it, and not to eat it as well. Cs were talking about fanatical vegetarians, which I also perceive as not correct, as well as the opposite side.

The ones that take the moral high ground. Lierre Keith described them very well in her book, The Vegetarian Myth. I think it's worth reading, if you haven't.

No I haven't read this book, thank you for pointing it out.

I like this cassopeia group, even though it's been a short time since I've been here. I was surprised to read today in the Session November 2024 thread where they linked vegetarianism to weakened immunity, so I went to read more on this topic here in this thread. It was like finding out that being a vegetarian is bad. I really don't think so from my point of view, and I believe that everyone's journey is unique, so you can't put everyone in 1 bag. I am surprised what feelings it brought out in me...

Have a nice evening a once more thank you for your words

 

[hobnob]

I think the counterargument is provided entirely by the C's: consciousnesses must all eat (whether they meant while physical or truly always may be another debate).

So, if you don't eat meat, you are eating seeds or what's protecting seeds, and you're not giving those things a chance to grow in consciousness. That's a reasonable, moral argument in my view. That doesn't stop me. I just ate brown rice, for instance. It was partly for the magnesium (and whatever other nutrients I may not be considering) and partly for the taste (in preference to, say, pumpkin seeds or a pill). There will be immediate karma, or consequences: I feel high-strung after eating it. In the long-term, there could be gut damage, but I'm not likely to go that far.

I'd like to add about sarcasm, since I was always very sarcastic from a young age, that, at least for me, maybe 99% of my sarcasm is serious. Maybe less, but still a majority.

 

[hlat]

BTW my decision not to eat meat it was "accidental" and for serious health reasons.

Perhaps if you provided the details of your serious health reasons, the accidental decision, and the things that were going on in your life at that time, we may learn something.

 

[katarinak]

I believe this forum should be about connecting people with a higher purpose. And by the fact that we are all different, it should also be about tolerance for different opinions than our own. Do you want to be STO candidates? By forcing others to accept your opinion as the only correct one? How do you know that it really is the only one and is also the right one? I Cs have said that "Open your mind to any and all possibilities / Be open to all possibilities"

Just because one is a non-meat eater does not mean one is a fanatical vegetarian. Just because one is a non-meat eater does not mean that one's consciousness is at a lower level. Just because one is a non-meat eater does not mean one is less creative or at the level of the OP or has the essence of a cow. Cs have said that human beings before the Fall were vegetarians, but equally that until we go through the transition we are not really designed to be vegetarian.

"Cathars were supposed to be vegetarian and they didn't succeed in surviving either" and this is the phrase that was repeated over and over to me yesterday. Why didn't they survive? What's the difference between vegetarians and people who eat meat? I think I already know the answer.

In 4D, if I understand correctly, we will know everything about ourselves. Like me being a vegetarian, everyone has something hidden inside them that they don't want others to see in 3D. Can you imagine that the way you treated to me because I am a vegetarian, people will treat to you because of that hidden thing of yours? Thank you all for your insights and I hope that in the future there will be a greater amount of tolerance and understanding.

 

[Mari]

Can you imagine that the way you treated to me because I am a vegetarian, people will treat to you because of that hidden thing of yours? Thank you all for your insights and I hope that in the future there will be a greater amount of tolerance and understanding.

It might be simply a fact that English is not your first language - neither is mine - and sometimes, a lot is lost in the translation, but I´ve got the impression from your last post that you feel that you are not being treated properly here - that there is a lack of tolerance toward you and that that you are mistreated. I cannot see which post shows that, so could you please explain that further?
As I sad, maybe I´ve misunderstood, so could you please show problematic posts?

 

[katarinak]

but I´ve got the impression from your last post that you feel that you are not being treated properly here - that there is a lack of tolerance toward you and that that you are mistreated.

My last post was mentioned generally and not personally. I try not to take things personally, although it's not always easy. I was honestly quite surprised that the way of not eating meat is so frowned upon.

Food is for me a way which provides energy for the body. Whether a person is a vegetarian or not is his/her free decision. To be in the extreme or a fanatic on one side or the other is not right. I don't think that by becoming a vegetarian one will have a weakened immunity, feel worse, etc. I also feel that being a vegetarian has probably helped me heal from my asthma and from a physical point of view my body is healthier than it was 12 years ago. I don't think eating animals who have higher consciousness than plants will increase our consciousness. I think it doesn't really matter if a person eats meat or not, because the food we buy in the supermarket is full of chemicals and often not even fresh.


I'm posting a couple of posts that surprised me yesterday. I don't mean it personally and I respect everyone's opinion even if it's different than mine.

[COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)]irjO[/COLOR]: in session 24th November 2024​

The vegetarian diet is not the most optimal one for our bodies, and it weakens the immune system due to the lacking of rich animal fat and nutrients that only meat has.

I just ate brown rice, for instance. It was partly for the magnesium (and whatever other nutrients I may not be considering) and partly for the taste (in preference to, say, pumpkin seeds or a pill). There will be immediate karma, or consequences: I feel high-strung after eating it.

So yeah, keep on being a vegetarian if you choose, but I think it's a mistake on the basis that animal fat and protein is optimal for human health, which isn't really an opinion as it's backed up by decades of research

truth seeker: in this thread​

The vegetarian/vegan diet (or dairy or whatever) further cements this inability to think (or having thought loops) properly by not supplying proper nutrients that would enable them to think outside the box. The box in this case being their own narcissistic wounding via their inability/unwillingness to accept responsibility.

A person has a deep psychological problem that causes him to not eat meat, and instead of trying to understand the true reason behind their own behavior, they come up with entire lists of rationalizations for this behavior to justify it.

 

[hobnob]

Yes, feeling agitated from brown rice is not a surprise to me. I was, in fact, carnivore (did not even eat dairy) for at least two years. Anywho "Atkins," paleo, or keto much longer than that. Rice has nutrients, but also proteins called lectins (or even agglutinin) that may attack the gut and brain, particularly in large amounts.

May attack. If you don't have these issues, then that is, of course, great. Personally, I never considered some of the other angles you mentioned. What's the difference between vegetarianism and meat-eating? The nutrients, namely zinc, B vitamins, calcium, and so on. Why did Cathars die out from vegetarianism? Because back then, there was not much 'meat,' so to speak, to fruits and vegetables, so it was not a healthy choice back then. Do I hate vegetarians? No, I know some! What about OP's? I don't care. In fact, many people may have the same genetic issues, or learned behavior, just by virtue of being in the same family. What about beliefs? I try my best not to touch people's beliefs, I understand their importance.

Consider it is meat that is often practically being attacked by public policy, not so much veggies.

I mentioned, also, magnesium, because this thread made me consider why meat may cause problems. Vegetarians intake a lot more calcium, and are used to different things, so it may be wise to plan incremental changes if that is the choice made.

 

[Ben]

@katarinak Sorry if I have missed this somewhere, but have you read 'The Vegetarian Myths by Lierre Keith? That is, after all, what this thread is mainly about.

This forum is not intended to provide a space for people to voice their opinions and agree to differ on them. It's a place to network and come as close as possible to an objective understanding of reality. It sounds to me (and I'm not the first to say it) that your specific health and dietary requirements are the exception, rather than the rule. Other than that, nobody here would have a problem with your particular choice of diet. It's your choice and if it works for you then that's great.