The work sub-forum

[mkrnhr]

Reminder:

To explain: we have received reports of a potentially violent predator who has registered on the forum. We moved those forums where many personal details are exposed for the protection of our members.

There is no reason to be agressive. If there is danger in a house, the doors and windows are closed.

 

[anart]

I must have missed that...I think I was busy noticing how rude and condescending you're being.

I think allowing cicero an opportunity to calm his frustrations a bit this evening might be the way to go here, so - perhaps - not adding fuel to that right now might be best. I understand your frustration as well, but, for the moment, let's see if things can't level out here a bit.

 

[Guardian]

I must have missed that...I think I was busy noticing how rude and condescending you're being.

I think allowing cicero an opportunity to calm his frustrations a bit this evening might be the way to go here, so - perhaps - not adding fuel to that right now might be best. I understand your frustration as well, but, for the moment, let's see if things can't level out here a bit.

You're right Anart...sorry Cicero, I have had a rather trying day...so I'm gonna go soak in the hottub :)

 

[Alana]

cicero, as a serious researcher, you know that patience always pays when we are out to find what we need for our advancement. How about you take a look at the many threads that are not restricted to you, and - who knows? - you might find something that will pique your interest in them. You might have something to say, or even to ask, after all. And one day, you'll be able to read all the areas in the forum. I always found that having the inquiring curiosity of a child, the patient of a loving parent and taking any obstacles ahead as challenges, the best and most helpful qualities to the seeker of Truth :)

 

[vectis]

Hi Cicero!

I am a newbie to this forum just like you, thank you for commenting on my introduction.
You seem to have done a lot of poking around this forum as I have also. I can tell as I
see your posts on a number of things I have been looking at. You seem to be a nice
character and have some interesting insights.

I like the C's analogy between classes and densities. We're in third grade, getting
ready for fourth grade. We may have a lot of fourth grade knowledge, but the
fact remains we are still in third grade. To keep it on the silly side (for me), I feel
like I am a new student in a new school, and I feel awkward because I don't really
know anyone here. One thing for certain, we are all here in third grade, even if
we are not familiar with the other students, the schools "feel" or the all studies.

With the "access denied" thing, I think of military communications security. As
mentioned here about the outer, middle and inner circles; I relate to confidential,
secret, and top secret clearances. Different level clearance gives one access to
different levels of material. Once one has "access" to a certain level of material,
it still does not mean that all the material at the level is available. The next step
after access, is "need to know"...

...The "need to know" is what I am not questioning here. My first thoughts about
the "post limit" thing has been noted here, after a certain number of posts, the
admin and members can get an idea what someone is about. the term used was
a "marker"... So far, I can see it as a well-monitored system. Stalking is a serious
issue, and that is the biggest consideration I think the Admins are being cautious
about. I totally agree with caution. Vigilance, vigilance, vigiliance! There's lots of
sensitive stuff going on here; quite a responsibility for those who keep it all in line,
up front, safe and secure.

Cicero, we have two things in common so far. We're both newbies here, in the same starting
class. Then we both seem to have been guided here at the same time! I'm so glad to be able
to be part of this forum, that it is not "closed to the public." I will learn from the newbies - to
see how they act and how they are treated; as well as from the ones who have been here
since the beginning. I guess I am commenting because I was surprised to see this thread.
Let's have fun as newbies! I hope you don't take it wrong if I also say (let's) "take it easy!"

 

[Laura]

As a Newbie (only 16 posts now), I don't want to appear as one who is deliberately 'making waves' (pun seriously intended), but there is something very wrong in a system where the Cs (our Mentors?) have suggested that we begin acting like we're already in 4th density, but the forum administration seems to be carrying on 'business as usual' as though we should continue to be practicing 3rd density STS where the 'access denied' policy relies on a wholly contrived premise that somehow one qualifies simply because he/she has reached a certain number of posts.

Apparently you missed - or didn't read carefully - or didn't understand - WHY this action was taken.

In an STO world, behaving in a totally open way would work, but unfortunately, we live in an STS world where little islands of those practicing STO have to be protected from predators. The fact is, there is quite a bit in the Cs transcripts that guides us in this process and even quite a bit that has never been published because it would endanger us to publish it.

Our task is to learn how to navigate from here to there and we - Ark and myself and the moderators of this forum - have been seeking and receiving guidance on this process, and practicing it, for a number of years now with some success. You either have confidence in that based on what we have made available or you don't. If you don't, then you don't trust us and our judgment and there's nothing we can do about that: we simply aren't colinear.

In a private exchange I've had with Vulcan59 about this subject, I pointed out that I could simply paste 'welcome newbie' to every Newbie who posts to the forum and get my 'score' up to a 'qualifying level'. Does anyone else see the absurdity in that?

It would be noted that you had done this and you would probably be banned for noise. Do you see the logic in that?

And if it may appear to be equally absurd, couldn't someone assume that the Lizzies have taken over the administration of the forum? Yes, of course I'm making analogies here with artistic license, but somehow the point needs to be made.

You aren't the teacher here. Either you have come to learn or you have come to teach. If you have come to teach, probably better find out fast if you are on the same page because if you are not, you are welcome to teach elsewhere.

I consider myself no better than other very serious posters who have made it their life's work to investigate and participate in the mysteries of this playground we call reality, and you know who you are, and at least some number have engaged me with serious replies to my own posts here. Somehow the administration (boy, does that sound diehard 3rd density!) has to get to the level of what we're supposed to be doing here in a heightened appreciation of who and what the participants really and truly represent, and maybe invoke some higher level cognition to determine who should have access to what boards based on the deeper perceptions of each individual poster, Newbie or 'the force is strong with this one' long-time members/posters.

Whole lotta self-importance flying there which strongly suggests that you have a lot to learn, not the least of which is patience, External Considering (search the forum for examples), and just general manners.

Let me reiterate a certain point: you are in OUR house and we make the rules for the protection and comfort of our guests. Our guests are here because they like the house, the hosts, the decor, the food, the company. If there are any of those you don't like - which seems to be the case - you are welcome to attend a different gathering that is more to your taste.

If someone is going to determine the 'strength of my force' based on the number of posts I've made, perhaps we should set up a committee with a Ouija Board to invoke an equally 'strong force' that could sort through the energies associated with each poster. Where I've seen many posts to Newbies welcoming them with a simple 'welcome to the forum' reply (which I am certainly not defaming), my own welcomes have been tailored to each Newbie individually, and others have done likewise. I'm talking content here, which seems to have no place on the gauge of (3rd density) quantity.

Self-importance. See comments above.

My Avatar on this forum is Cicero, because I have always admired his having risen to the occasion of every trial as though it were an opportunity to be at cause, rather than simply accept that 'that's the way it is'. If the administration of the forum really wants to engage a 4th density approach to determinations about who should have access to what boards, who among them will take it upon themselves to engage their own seeing as to the nature of a poster and his/her 'worthiness' to access the boards carte blanche, as opposed to a system based on sci fi movies and virtual reality games that have gotten global societies (but more especially Americans) addicted to unrealistic expectations of entitlements, where only the (Darwinistic) strong survive? And wouldn't that same 'gut level' seeing lead someone to identify this stalker they've suspected of haunting the boards?

Self-importance; see comments above.

I had very high hopes in joining this forum, where I have already previously said elsewhere that I am NOT a joiner, and primarily because I don't want the associations of others' misguided ideas to be mistaken for my own. Who are we?

I would suggest that you had an agenda attached to your "high hopes" and that this agenda had much to do with narcissistic feeding.

And please, if you're finding yourself offended by my honesty,

How can we be offended when it is clear that you don't even know what honesty is?

go within and deal with it before you allow your anger to be directed at me before the audience of this forum. I am only the messenger, but in the stead of those for whom I speak, these are the sincere expressions of issues which need to be addressed by those who are in the position to do so.

And I thank You for All who are so disposed.

All of which sounds vaguely pathological and intended to fish out victims. I don't mean to be insulting, but we have experienced your M.O. many times before. I know you cannot see it because those who are so afflicted have no insight into their affliction, but I am pointing it out on the off-chance that there is some part of you that is not totally corrupted and can receive it.

The fact is, it is persons like yourself from which our guests deserve our protection.

 

[Gonzo]

Hi cicero,

I have found some of your contributions to certain threads interesting, but found your comments on this one quite revealing and I have to wonder to what degree you are aware of yourself and your tendencies beyond your intellectual capacities.

---snip---
I, on the other hand, was led to this forum by forces beyond me, and while I am a good person, and probably a sweetheart to boot, I long ago lost my innocence when I began deprogramming, and I'm simply pursuing a hunger that many on this forum can understand, especially Laura. In that respect, you could probably say that I'm a bad boy, and I've never had a problem with that when it comes to needing to know. I've had to pay a very high price, but it's always been worth it.
---snip---

I'm not sure what the cryptic reference to being led to the forum by "forces beyond" you was about, but it certainly adds a layer of mystique and importance for the untrained eye. I don't know if you were aware of that, but many use such language to convey their "specialness".

Your mention of being a good person and probably a sweetheart to boot is contradicted by your comments. Often our self image is seriously flawed and we have little hope in discovering those flaws on our own. We require the feedback of others and the ability to receive the input without our ego and old wounds getting in the way.

This is an often painful yet essential process toward awakening and "cleaning the machine". While this forum is adept at mirroring and offering valuable feedback, one really benefits from reading the psychology books recommended for all members (complete list at: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4718.0), including the "big five" narcissism books, since we all have narcissistic wounds in varying degrees:

- Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
- The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
- Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
- Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
- In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simo

You mention that "I'm simply pursuing a hunger" as an explanation for your need to access certain areas of the forum. I would suggest your hunger would be a good area for you to contemplate for a while on your own. You might want to ask yourself what exactly is it that feeds you through reading posts? What feeds you through posting? What part of you is being fed? Do you ever get a feeling of satiation and, if so, what was involved in it? What did you hope to achieve through the forum and how will it benefit you and others?

These aren't questions one should just answer off the cuff, rather they require deep contemplation over an extended period of time, perhaps over many instances, perhaps through meditation (speaking of which, have you considered doing the EE breathing program? It is an excellent method for both relaxation and self observation.).

Please remember the purposes of this forum. A rereading of the Forum Guidelines and Comprehensive Guide for the Serious Reader might help you decide if this is really what you want.

This is not an informational forum, nor is it a public forum. One is expected to work on themselves and contribute in a meaningful way, always respectful of the significant research that is being performed, the feelings of others and mindful of your own emotional, mental and physical states.

Perhaps the reason you were led here has more to do with personal growth and change and less to do with intellectual dialogue.

Or, if this doesn't ring true to you, perhaps you were led here for nefarious purposes as part of an agenda of forces beyond you.

I really hope all of the constructive comments have a positive affect on you as I believe you can benefit greatly from this network of caring, intelligent and trustworthy individuals.

Gonzo

 

[Risen]

I just realized that my favorite topic "the work" was unavailable to me. I know 25 more posts does not seem like a lot but it has taken me several years to get the first 25. I am trying hard not to make " noise" posts in order to be included again. I am not criticizing the decision. I would like to say that I probably would not have become a member if "the work" had not been available to me in the beginning (not that it would matter if I was not a member but I do like the forum :)). I found the forum because I was a serious Fourth Way enthusiast. I have since become interested in other areas of the forum. Why not just make "the swamp" and other more personal areas private?

 

[Iron]

I arrived late to this thread, and I salute the decision to protect all of us.

After seeing cicero's posts, I feel compelled to ask a question, and the moderators cut my wings if it is unnecessary at this point.

What is the measure to check the "worthyness" of a poster?
What can be an objective measure to determine if a member is more "worthy" than another?

Given that all the experiences are valid to increase the knowledge of the network, who can be called "unworthy" ?

A well read poster, filled with curiosity will have no trouble reaching 50 posts. Even if plagued by the negative introject.

 

[Guardian]

I just realized that my favorite topic "the work" was unavailable to me. I know 25 more posts does not seem like a lot but it has taken me several years to get the first 25.

Wow.... I hit 700 in about 6 months. Either you're really shy, or I'm really mouthy ;D

 

[Risen]

Wow.... I hit 700 in about 6 months. Either you're really shy, or I'm really mouthy ;D

I'm really not at all shy in person. I just seldom have a new question that I don't find answered when I search and I don't make myself understood well when I try to write. I don't think you are mouthy, just more comfortable communicating on the internet. Before I started reading forums, I seldom used the internet. I think I am quite a bit older than the majority of members. I am also, as I stated before, afraid of making "noise". I have spent a lot more time on the forum than my statistics show because I have dial-up and will download as many as 20 pages to read offline and also read while not logged in when away from home. I have probably read every post in " the work" section and always checked that first if there were new posts. Sometimes I will think of something to ask and when I log on, another person has asked exactly what I was wondering about. This has happened so often it is freaky.

 

[anart]

I'm really not at all shy in person. I just seldom have a new question that I don't find answered when I search and I don't make myself understood well when I try to write. I don't think you are mouthy, just more comfortable communicating on the internet. Before I started reading forums, I seldom used the internet. I think I am quite a bit older than the majority of members. I am also, as I stated before, afraid of making "noise". I have spent a lot more time on the forum than my statistics show because I have dial-up and will download as many as 20 pages to read offline and also read while not logged in when away from home. I have probably read every post in " the work" section and always checked that first if there were new posts. Sometimes I will think of something to ask and when I log on, another person has asked exactly what I was wondering about. This has happened so often it is freaky.

opossum, for what it's worth, I think you've always made yourself very well understood when you write. There is an interesting truth about this forum and what we do. You really do get back what you give. Reading and learning and not posting 'noise' is externally considerate and much appreciated, but until you really start to converse and share yourself a little (especially when you don't want to) you can only go so far. I think you would add a lot to many discussions here, so, hopefully you'll start to chime in a bit more. :)

 

[Guardian]

I'm really not at all shy in person. I just seldom have a new question that I don't find answered when I search and I don't make myself understood well when I try to write. I don't think you are mouthy, just more comfortable communicating on the internet. Before I started reading forums, I seldom used the internet.

Ahhh, you're probably right... and thanks for saying I'm not mouthy :)
A whole lot of being comfortable with something is just a matter of practice. I can remember when we chatted in Telnet and fought to keep the Undernet from splitting ;)

I have spent a lot more time on the forum than my statistics show because I have dial-up and will download as many as 20 pages to read offline and also read while not logged in when away from home. I have probably read every post in " the work" section and always checked that first if there were new posts. Sometimes I will think of something to ask and when I log on, another person has asked exactly what I was wondering about. This has happened so often it is freaky.

Awwww....dial-up is no fun. :(
Do you know that if you use Firefox, you can go to "View," select "Page Style," check "No Style" and the pages will load MUCH faster for you. There won't be any background colors, extra formatting, etc...just the text and images. :)

 

[Risen]

A well read poster, filled with curiosity will have no trouble reaching 50 posts. Even if plagued by the negative introject.

I disagree with this statement because I am a well read person filled with curiosity and eager to learn who had trouble reaching 50 posts in several years for various reasons. And. like I already stated, I am not against the decision, just putting in my 31 cents worth.

Anart and Guardian, thank you for your comments and encouragement. I think it's time to let my little light shine and actually, this decision has been very helpful. There is nothing I won't do to see my beloved "the work" again.

 

[jhonny]

I'm really not at all shy in person. I just seldom have a new question that I don't find answered when I search and I don't make myself understood well when I try to write. I don't think you are mouthy, just more comfortable communicating on the internet. Before I started reading forums, I seldom used the internet. I think I am quite a bit older than the majority of members. I am also, as I stated before, afraid of making "noise". I have spent a lot more time on the forum than my statistics show because I have dial-up and will download as many as 20 pages to read offline and also read while not logged in when away from home. I have probably read every post in " the work" section and always checked that first if there were new posts. Sometimes I will think of something to ask and when I log on, another person has asked exactly what I was wondering about. This has happened so often it is freaky.

.

I, too, was something very similar, but after reading ISOTM I realize that the process lived between Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, is the process that all students must pass with the teacher, Ouspensky At first could not understand some things that G. and their students said, but later he was gradually discovering the depth of his teachings, so we got all new to the forum the same thing happens to us, but sharing our thoughts and doubts of our own observation we realize that we are really going well on the way , and this can only be done with people who have already passed this process.