Too late in discovering strategic enclosure...

[Nienna]

I'm still in the process of fully understanding this idea of "Strategic Enclosure", I think I have many hours of reading to do on this subject. (Gurdjieff I guess is the primary source to read about).

I'm not sure if you've read the description of strategic enclosure in Cassopedia, I thought I'd give the link to it:

http://cassiopedia.org/glossary/Strategic_enclosure

And, just for fun, I'll include the link to external and internal considering:

http://cassiopedia.org/glossary/External_and_Internal_Considering

I hope these help you. :)

 

[SMM]

The concept is actually presented in Mouravieff's Gnosis (you can find it online). It's a bit abstract but it helped me a lot to understand these concepts.

Which Gnosis is the concept presented in?

 

[Zadius Sky]

The concept is actually presented in Mouravieff's Gnosis (you can find it online). It's a bit abstract but it helped me a lot to understand these concepts.

Which Gnosis is the concept presented in?

While the words "Strategic Enclosure" are not in any of the Gnosis books, the concept itself referring to the idea of the General Law (i.e., the Devil) and how one can avoid attracting the increased pressures of this law, which was in Gnosis I:

What then is the meaning of human life in this Cosmos as we know it? Man's existence has two main purposes:

— as an element of the universal organism, it serves the aims of the latter;
— as an isolated individual, he can pursue his own aims.

To better understand why and how these two objectives are bound together, let us take an example:

The position of man in the Universe is analogous to that of a cell in the human body. Each cell is a part of an organ which, in its turn, is an element of a group of organs that assures proper accomplishment of some definite function of the organism.

From this point of view, let us examine the lot of a cell in our bodies. It is subject to two categories of laws. To simplify, let us say that it is placed under the rule of two laws.

The first keeps the cell in its place. In esoteric science we call it the General Law. The second leaves a certain liberty of action for the cell, and is called the Law of Exception.

The first law, which is conservative, ensures that the organ of which this cell is a part accomplishes its function with no impediment. To this end, the first condition is that during their lives the cells which compose the organ fulfill the role given them. This law obliges these cells to remain in their own places, to complete their work, and to dedicate their lives to it.

It is evident that if this law did not keep the cells of the body within the limits of each organ, if it did not oblige them to fulfil their function, the latter would not be able to exist. Thus this law is beneficial; by ensuring the existence of the organs, it permits the whole body to endure.

We know, however, that the total removal of certain organs of the body is compatible with survival. In the current state of our knowledge it even seems that removal of some of them leads to no serious functional inconvenience. Even more; the organism tolerates partial resection of some organs without compromising the roles played by the latter in the general economy. This shows that the disappearance of a few cells, an infinitesimal part of an organ, goes unnoticed: its functioning is not impaired. As the essential role of the General Law is to watch over continuity of function, this disappearance passes unnoticed by it. Therefore it places no further obstacles. Symbolically, one can say that cells which escape from this law now enter the domain of the Law of Exception.

[...]

As long as man accepts the principle of the final annihilation of his Personality without a fight, he can carry on in life without attracting the increasing pressures of the General Law upon himself.

The case is totally different if he struggles to surpass the limits which it imposes. It acts simultaneously on several planes: physical, mental, and moral. Its action on the moral plane is conceived by man, since time immemorial, in the form of a personification: the Devil.

In the orthodox Tradition demonology occupies a considerable place. We find there practical constatations, fine and profound observations on the highly sophisticated and insidious forms that the Devil's action takes in very varied circumstances, in which it goes as far as using the good faith of humans for its own ends.

We will also find precious advice, based on accumulated experience over the ages, which is particularly helpful to students of esoteric science; because once the first positive results are obtained those students will unmistakably run up against the active opposition to the law and the GAME OF THE CRAFTY ONE.

It must be realized that in placing himself under the aegis of the Law of Exception, man goes against the General Law, which he is even called upon to overthrow, if only on an individual scale. He must not forget--under penalty of 'surprise attack'--the salvation depends on victory over the Devil, which as we have said, is the personalized moral aspect of the General Law. This is so, even though this, being a cosmic law, is naturally a divine law. One must not be afraid, as the Law of Exception is also a divine law. In choosing it, man continues to serve the interests of the whole, but differently and in an incomparably more efficient manner. During his fight against the first law, he is subject to tests that often take the form of temptations. In orthodox Doctrine deep studies are devoted to this theme, As stated above, they contain precious advice of a practical nature, details of which we cannot cover in this present book. We are however permitted to draw attention to the indirect nature of the diabolical action. If, aiming straight towards his goal, which is liberation and salvation, the seeker successfully overcomes the obstacles and by this shows proof of a strength that would permit him to defy the authority of the General Law, the latter will begin to act upon him indirectly, generally by the mediation of his near ones if they do not follow the same path: this action occurs on the moral plane, and often takes emotional forms appealing to his most noble, generous, and disinterested sentiments: to his charity; his obligations; his pity. It impels him down blind alleys, insinuating that he will be returning to his duty, that by so doing he will go on walking in the right path, etc. This will clarify the profound saying of Jesus that: "A man's worst enemies are those of his own household."

This following article goes further into this whole concept:

Jupiter, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and the Return of the Mongols

 

[luc]

The concept is actually presented in Mouravieff's Gnosis (you can find it online). It's a bit abstract but it helped me a lot to understand these concepts.

Which Gnosis is the concept presented in?

I'm sorry, I was sure that the term "strategic enclosure" was mentioned in Gnosis, but I guess I confused the places where I read about it.

I was thinking of the concept of "slowly building an inner cage" to build strength and allow only the higher influences to enter while not trying to confront the general law directly since it is much more powerful than any individual. Reading Mouravieff's description of the general law helped me to gain a new perspective on what happens around me and how I relate to my surrounding.

While the words "Strategic Enclosure" are not in any of the Gnosis books, the concept itself referring to the idea of the General Law (i.e., the Devil) and how one can avoid attracting the increased pressures of this law, which was in Gnosis I:

Thanks for the clarification and for the quote, and sorry again for the confusion. I should have looked it up before posting.

 

[Eongar]

I think 99% of us have been wanting to share this information at our disposal, sometimes as if we "save the world".

I think it's a matter of understanding that each has its learning curve and understanding that helps us respect the free will of others.

 

[Mildain]

Thanks for the information guys. I'll do some reading up on Mouravieff.

I just hope I can catch up to all this material .. there are so many books to read, and if there is enough time to read only a few of the titles available in a lifetime. Too make matters worse, my brain is a bit of a stiff sponge, it takes me weeks to read a single title averaging 200-300 pages.. even then, most of the material doesn't absorb properly - I forget easily and quickly. Add to that having to re-read each line at least 2 times (mostly 3 times) so that I don't lose track of the context in the material.

I've always had this feeling my whole life that I've been left behind or I am being left behind. Now, I feel that it likely was this whole time that I am not learning within my capacity, because of decades of bad diet, useless distractions like videogames and other nonsense. I am excited to take this direction, I just hope I don't mess up - it's easy to get hooked into things nowadays, there is so much disinformation and distraction it's difficult for a regular person to navigate all of it. I feel that this has affected me to a great degree, and I think it's going to take a while to deal with those problems.

I am having difficulty containing myself with some of the things I have absorbed - and that is why I desperately need to develop the strategic enclosure and external / internal consideration concepts for myself, so that I don't put anyone else in danger or "rock the boat" too much.

Im not sure most of what I wrote in this post made much sense. If it doesn't, I apologize.

 

[SMM]

Thanks for the information guys. I'll do some reading up on Mouravieff.

I just hope I can catch up to all this material .. there are so many books to read, and if there is enough time to read only a few of the titles available in a lifetime. Too make matters worse, my brain is a bit of a stiff sponge, it takes me weeks to read a single title averaging 200-300 pages.. even then, most of the material doesn't absorb properly - I forget easily and quickly. Add to that having to re-read each line at least 2 times (mostly 3 times) so that I don't lose track of the context in the material.

I've always had this feeling my whole life that I've been left behind or I am being left behind. Now, I feel that it likely was this whole time that I am not learning within my capacity, because of decades of bad diet, useless distractions like videogames and other nonsense. I am excited to take this direction, I just hope I don't mess up - it's easy to get hooked into things nowadays, there is so much disinformation and distraction it's difficult for a regular person to navigate all of it. I feel that this has affected me to a great degree, and I think it's going to take a while to deal with those problems.

I am having difficulty containing myself with some of the things I have absorbed - and that is why I desperately need to develop the strategic enclosure and external / internal consideration concepts for myself, so that I don't put anyone else in danger or "rock the boat" too much.

Im not sure most of what I wrote in this post made much sense. If it doesn't, I apologize.

What you wrote makes perfect sense. We don't necessarily have an apparatus that can assist us in measuring how strategically enclosed or externally considerate we are being at any given moment [networking here helps].

Acceptance of the way things are can go a long way, it's the natural state of affairs in this world. I think I instictively practiced strategic enclosure before I really knew what it was, however external considering was far from rehearsed not having learnt [it takes me weeks to read anything also], which left me feeling as though I generally screwed up where it mattered greatly - in intimate affairs. Saying to a partner who has no knowledge of these ideas that 'sex is a drain of energy'? Yikes!

There is the argument of interpretation - what one thing means to you may not mean the same thing to another, plus attachment to ideals no matter how detrimental or fanatical they may be, still it is a choice. The esoteric, mesoteric & exoteric descriptions by Gurdjieff, where he mentions the confusion of tongues, takes a whole new meaning.

The concept is actually presented in Mouravieff's Gnosis (you can find it online). It's a bit abstract but it helped me a lot to understand these concepts.

Which Gnosis is the concept presented in?

While the words "Strategic Enclosure" are not in any of the Gnosis books, the concept itself referring to the idea of the General Law (i.e., the Devil) and how one can avoid attracting the increased pressures of this law, which was in Gnosis I:

What then is the meaning of human life in this Cosmos as we know it? Man's existence has two main purposes:

— as an element of the universal organism, it serves the aims of the latter;
— as an isolated individual, he can pursue his own aims.

To better understand why and how these two objectives are bound together, let us take an example:

The position of man in the Universe is analogous to that of a cell in the human body. Each cell is a part of an organ which, in its turn, is an element of a group of organs that assures proper accomplishment of some definite function of the organism.

From this point of view, let us examine the lot of a cell in our bodies. It is subject to two categories of laws. To simplify, let us say that it is placed under the rule of two laws.

The first keeps the cell in its place. In esoteric science we call it the General Law. The second leaves a certain liberty of action for the cell, and is called the Law of Exception.

The first law, which is conservative, ensures that the organ of which this cell is a part accomplishes its function with no impediment. To this end, the first condition is that during their lives the cells which compose the organ fulfill the role given them. This law obliges these cells to remain in their own places, to complete their work, and to dedicate their lives to it.

It is evident that if this law did not keep the cells of the body within the limits of each organ, if it did not oblige them to fulfil their function, the latter would not be able to exist. Thus this law is beneficial; by ensuring the existence of the organs, it permits the whole body to endure.

We know, however, that the total removal of certain organs of the body is compatible with survival. In the current state of our knowledge it even seems that removal of some of them leads to no serious functional inconvenience. Even more; the organism tolerates partial resection of some organs without compromising the roles played by the latter in the general economy. This shows that the disappearance of a few cells, an infinitesimal part of an organ, goes unnoticed: its functioning is not impaired. As the essential role of the General Law is to watch over continuity of function, this disappearance passes unnoticed by it. Therefore it places no further obstacles. Symbolically, one can say that cells which escape from this law now enter the domain of the Law of Exception.

[...]

As long as man accepts the principle of the final annihilation of his Personality without a fight, he can carry on in life without attracting the increasing pressures of the General Law upon himself.

The case is totally different if he struggles to surpass the limits which it imposes. It acts simultaneously on several planes: physical, mental, and moral. Its action on the moral plane is conceived by man, since time immemorial, in the form of a personification: the Devil.

In the orthodox Tradition demonology occupies a considerable place. We find there practical constatations, fine and profound observations on the highly sophisticated and insidious forms that the Devil's action takes in very varied circumstances, in which it goes as far as using the good faith of humans for its own ends.

We will also find precious advice, based on accumulated experience over the ages, which is particularly helpful to students of esoteric science; because once the first positive results are obtained those students will unmistakably run up against the active opposition to the law and the GAME OF THE CRAFTY ONE.

It must be realized that in placing himself under the aegis of the Law of Exception, man goes against the General Law, which he is even called upon to overthrow, if only on an individual scale. He must not forget--under penalty of 'surprise attack'--the salvation depends on victory over the Devil, which as we have said, is the personalized moral aspect of the General Law. This is so, even though this, being a cosmic law, is naturally a divine law. One must not be afraid, as the Law of Exception is also a divine law. In choosing it, man continues to serve the interests of the whole, but differently and in an incomparably more efficient manner. During his fight against the first law, he is subject to tests that often take the form of temptations. In orthodox Doctrine deep studies are devoted to this theme, As stated above, they contain precious advice of a practical nature, details of which we cannot cover in this present book. We are however permitted to draw attention to the indirect nature of the diabolical action. If, aiming straight towards his goal, which is liberation and salvation, the seeker successfully overcomes the obstacles and by this shows proof of a strength that would permit him to defy the authority of the General Law, the latter will begin to act upon him indirectly, generally by the mediation of his near ones if they do not follow the same path: this action occurs on the moral plane, and often takes emotional forms appealing to his most noble, generous, and disinterested sentiments: to his charity; his obligations; his pity. It impels him down blind alleys, insinuating that he will be returning to his duty, that by so doing he will go on walking in the right path, etc. This will clarify the profound saying of Jesus that: "A man's worst enemies are those of his own household."

This following article goes further into this whole concept:

Jupiter, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and the Return of the Mongols

Thank you Zadius Sky. Can attest to the blind alleys.
I seem able to maintain silence & observe though wonder how I will function 'to look like a normal person' without forgetting/letting my guard down/losing awareness to practice self-restraint. I currently surmise that this has more to do with my own program(s) via the persona as Jung depicted, which is curiously similar to the ideas of Juan's Predator's mind, the negative introject &, from the quote from Gnosis I above, the Devil.

The fact that I don't extensively converse with many makes me anxious for when I do, & losing myself in conversation spill the beans that are probably best left in the can. But I have found that, when I do converse, being aware that the other's perception is vastly different from my own means I talk 'on my feet'. Being a student makes it easier to get away with studying & spending hours with books. I sometimes ask questions about such matters but when they ask what I think of the matter, well... are they asking because they are really asking or because I asked & are returning in kind? By the time the conversation terminates, inferences are made that I communicate vaguely. That's fine with me. Nobody tends to think about it the day after tomorrow.

What I want to write next relates to the above though moderators are welcome to move it to somewhere more appropriate if it's off-topic.
Somewhere here on the forum, will have to look around to find out as to where, Laura wrote:

1. Knowledge Protects.
2. Always anticipate attack.
3. NETWORK!

It's summer holidays. I'm not doing much of anything expect this, reading & lightening the load around my flat, trying not to pull my nerves out whilst adjusting with life never being the same haha. Next week, there's an opportunity for me to get involved in a programme that involves interacting with other youths extensively for the development of general skills, as well as confidence building [at least that's what is being promoted of it]. This involves canoeing, rock climbing, camping, team building activities, chance to learn first aid/food hygiene etc.

Okay, so... it all sounds alright & will probably help me a great deal in the future when I go out into the world of work & what-not. It will nevertheless take up most of the week, most of it being spent with other youths & an instructor. There's just red sirens going off at the idea. Foremostly diet-wise, I'm dubious as to whether I'd be able to eat anything provided by them. Then general interactions, how I might prefer to stay in my flat & read, watch documentaries, listen to radio podcasts & clean or, should I go, take a few books [nothing too outlandish] & some writing materials. Also there wouldn't be much access to internet so not much opportunity to network on here.

The only people I really 'spend time with' indoors/in private are my family & that sometimes becomes an occasional. I see friends or people I know but they never come over to mine [this seems like a natural thing actually, because they're more caught up with what they're doing, have tried inviting them]. Well I can't isolate myself the entire summer [okay, I lie - I can try] but going to this will detract from my time & I don't want to be sitting there thinking I could be doing something else so I'm scratching my chin at this one...
Is it worth the risk assessment?

Even if I go, relax & enjoy if possible, it could lead to the spilling of beans. Having to spend a lot of hours with people whom I'll probably never see again, with the chance of presence 'influencing' them. Prolonged exposure would be lethal! Either way attack is anticipated.

 

[SadEyes]

I too discovered strategic enclosures a bit too late. When I first found this site and began reading Laura's work, Castenada, and Ouspensky, I thought that everything I was learning needed to be shared with everyone I knew. The only topic that I didn't talk much about was the UFO phenomenon, only because that is still to this day, the ultimate "you're a weirdo" topic. After way too many post on Facebook, and jumping into conversations with enough knowledge to make a point but not defend it well, I noticed that most of my 'friends' now considered me an all out conspiracy theorist. Now, it doesn't matter what I post, only the few people who really don't follow the hive mindset reply or even notice. I had to learn to just keep my mouth shut and my fingers away from the keyboard on many occasions...which hasn't been easy; but has definitely kept General Law from bringing me down on the spot. If only I had discovered strategic enclosures about 3 months ago, I would be much better off. I truly understand why Mouravieff advocates so much that one should (as much as possible) work in secret. Lesson hard learned...

 

[Sunflower]

I hear you, SadEyes! When trying to explain how important the diet is to family and friends (especially those with health problems) and how wrong it is to eat carbs, gluten and dairy, how good the right saturated fats are for you, I just get responses to the effect that 'it doesn't matter', 'grains are good for you', 'I can't afford to eat healthy', and the best one, 'you don't know what you're talking about' (from my Mother!). It does hurt that these people won't even try to listen, but they are so wrapped up in their own programs, they can't listen. Very sad. I feel helpless.

 

[irjO]

I hear you, SadEyes! When trying to explain how important the diet is to family and friends (especially those with health problems) and how wrong it is to eat carbs, gluten and dairy, how good the right saturated fats are for you, I just get responses to the effect that 'it doesn't matter', 'grains are good for you', 'I can't afford to eat healthy', and the best one, 'you don't know what you're talking about' (from my Mother!). It does hurt that these people won't even try to listen, but they are so wrapped up in their own programs, they can't listen. Very sad. I feel helpless.

Well but then there is sott.net where you can get the facts and you could share the articles and discuss them.. If they keep thinking the same after that then there is nothing you can do!

 

[SadEyes]

I hear you, SadEyes! When trying to explain how important the diet is to family and friends (especially those with health problems) and how wrong it is to eat carbs, gluten and dairy, how good the right saturated fats are for you, I just get responses to the effect that 'it doesn't matter', 'grains are good for you', 'I can't afford to eat healthy', and the best one, 'you don't know what you're talking about' (from my Mother!). It does hurt that these people won't even try to listen, but they are so wrapped up in their own programs, they can't listen. Very sad. I feel helpless.

Well but then there is sott.net where you can get the facts and you could share the articles and discuss them.. If they keep thinking the same after that then there is nothing you can do!

And I totally agree, but I find one huge problem in sharing Sott.net articles as well. Since the vast majority of the public is so dependent on brainwashing propaganda from Fox and CNN, that even when I share Sott articles, they are still perceived as 'conspiracy theories', even on the ones about diet. It's almost hilarious sometimes how people will jump to dismiss something without ever bothering to even read the article or check its references. But I completely understand, and at one time felt the same way as the lost ones.

The way I try and operate now is to throw little feelers out to people that I actually talk to. I have gotten pretty good at somehow gravitating towards people with open minds, so when I do encounter them, I try to listen to what they say without adding my two cents. When they finally ask me a question, I slowly let tid bits of information out. It's very hard finding that 'stopping point' in conversation using external consideration (for me at least). I'm sure many of you have a vague idea of where to stop a conversation before the people tune you out or dismiss you as a weirdo or conspiracy theorist.

 

[Inquorate]

Strategic Enclosure:
I've benefitted by meeting a couple of good people who already knew all this back in the 90's when I was still in my teens, y'know, the trailblazers. I also came from a family with one aware, allowing family, and one which was rigid and manipulative, so I had the benefit of the freedom of expression as a child, as well as the benefit of learning that some topics were unsuitable; you could just see them shutting down and redirecting themselves.
I learnt to cast out pieces of wisdom as personal observations instead of blanket appraisals of reality, i.e. "I find that wheat and milk make me sick after I eat them" instead of, "the wheat and milk you are eating are making you sick." It is much less confrontational to someone if you present an idea in a way that isn't seen by them as an attack on their previously held beliefs, and they are less likely to go into defensive mode to protect themselves.
I also had the benefit of having people help me challenge my beliefs by asking me questions. When I made a statement about Jesus, for example (when I was still breaking free of the controlling mechanisms of christianity) - I would be asked, "What caused you to come to that conclusion?" which would lead me to reconsider my reasons, and thus be more open to doing so in the future. "Are you sure of that?" may have elicited a "Yes, I am." at the time, but that small moment of doubt raised by the question would always make it easier for me to reconsider the concept at a later date.
In short, not many people are ready for any great revelations, and perhaps all we can do is prepare the way for them to have small revelations. Use the bible's messages on a christian, use science on the scientist. To a christian, I refer to demons. To the psychologist, ponerology... Use questions to impart the concept of critical thinking, and use concepts their minds are more open to.

Also, when you see someone travelling around and around in the same well worn groove automatically and without thought, any real attempt to knock the needle out of the groove will instead cause a defence mechanism to start which instead reinforces the groove, so you want to avoid challenging the pattern yourself. Lead them to think of doing it for themselves. Try, "How's that working for you?" in the beginning. Next time the program leads them to the same place, they may contact you for your thoughts, and you may eventually relate your own experiences then.

Everything a little bit by a little bit. Slowly but surely more and more of the control programs will lose their hold, and in a few lifetimes perhaps or this lifetime if they are ready for it, more of their soul will manage to exert an influence on the ego.

As for Damage Control when you overdo it or discuss too much with the wrong person (one who doesn't have the prerequisite coping mechanisms or wisdom concepts in place to handle the information), simply let it go. Start using the little questions again. Downplay the seriousness of the matter, point to other stranger occurances and beliefs of the masses (christian belief, flat world, science's big bang) in a joking way - and say quite truthfully that there are more important things to be concerned about.
I don't think one has to resort to lying about one's own drives and interests, just downplay them until their significance stops setting off alarms in the other's mind.

Before beginning on such an endeavor know that it takes A LOT of work to open a person's mind to true reality, and all the while it must be done gently gently.. Know that you probably won't be around to finish what you started

And above all; MIRTH!! when one is laughing, one is in aligned with the soul.

 

[mcb]

I too discovered strategic enclosures a bit too late...

Every non-fatal discovery is a potential learning opportunity. Too late for one thing; just in time for another.

I'm not as sure about the fatal ones.

 

[mcb]

I hear you, SadEyes! When trying to explain how important the diet is to family and friends (especially those with health problems) and how wrong it is to eat carbs, gluten and dairy, how good the right saturated fats are for you, I just get responses to the effect that 'it doesn't matter', 'grains are good for you', 'I can't afford to eat healthy', and the best one, 'you don't know what you're talking about' (from my Mother!). It does hurt that these people won't even try to listen, but they are so wrapped up in their own programs, they can't listen. Very sad. I feel helpless.

Well but then there is sott.net where you can get the facts and you could share the articles and discuss them.. If they keep thinking the same after that then there is nothing you can do!

And I totally agree, but I find one huge problem in sharing Sott.net articles as well. Since the vast majority of the public is so dependent on brainwashing propaganda from Fox and CNN, that even when I share Sott articles, they are still perceived as 'conspiracy theories', even on the ones about diet. It's almost hilarious sometimes how people will jump to dismiss something without ever bothering to even read the article or check its references. But I completely understand, and at one time felt the same way as the lost ones.

There are always problems. The interesting part comes from solving them. First it helps to be clear yourself what complete nonsense the sponsored/censored media are spewing; make sure you really see that. If you have any doubts about material from SOTT or elsewhere; don't share it. I pick and choose SOTT articles to share. Sometimes I share the original article instead of the SOTT "wrapper." It depends on the article and my estimation of my non-forum audience. Most of the time there is no response, but sometimes I am surprised by a positive response from somewhere I was not expecting it.

The way I try and operate now is to throw little feelers out to people that I actually talk to. I have gotten pretty good at somehow gravitating towards people with open minds, so when I do encounter them, I try to listen to what they say without adding my two cents. When they finally ask me a question, I slowly let tid bits of information out. It's very hard finding that 'stopping point' in conversation using external consideration (for me at least). I'm sure many of you have a vague idea of where to stop a conversation before the people tune you out or dismiss you as a weirdo or conspiracy theorist.

If it works, great. If not, try something else. Recognizing common behavior patterns can help avoid wasting time (work on yours in order to understand theirs, and don't try to fix "them"), but surprises do happen. Check that you aren't unconsciously thinking of yourself as a potential "weirdo or conspiracy theorist."

 

[SMM]

I too discovered strategic enclosures a bit too late...

Every non-fatal discovery is a potential learning opportunity. Too late for one thing; just in time for another.

I'm not as sure about the fatal ones.

What would classify as fatal? (Just reread my question... possibly what would is also uncertain & varies.)

ADDED:

I hear you, SadEyes! When trying to explain how important the diet is to family and friends (especially those with health problems) and how wrong it is to eat carbs, gluten and dairy, how good the right saturated fats are for you, I just get responses to the effect that 'it doesn't matter', 'grains are good for you', 'I can't afford to eat healthy', and the best one, 'you don't know what you're talking about' (from my Mother!). It does hurt that these people won't even try to listen, but they are so wrapped up in their own programs, they can't listen. Very sad. I feel helpless.

Well but then there is sott.net where you can get the facts and you could share the articles and discuss them.. If they keep thinking the same after that then there is nothing you can do!

And I totally agree, but I find one huge problem in sharing Sott.net articles as well. Since the vast majority of the public is so dependent on brainwashing propaganda from Fox and CNN, that even when I share Sott articles, they are still perceived as 'conspiracy theories', even on the ones about diet. It's almost hilarious sometimes how people will jump to dismiss something without ever bothering to even read the article or check its references. But I completely understand, and at one time felt the same way as the lost ones.

There are always problems. The interesting part comes from solving them. First it helps to be clear yourself what complete nonsense the sponsored/censored media are spewing; make sure you really see that. If you have any doubts about material from SOTT or elsewhere; don't share it. I pick and choose SOTT articles to share. Sometimes I share the original article instead of the SOTT "wrapper." It depends on the article and my estimation of my non-forum audience. Most of the time there is no response, but sometimes I am surprised by a positive response from somewhere I was not expecting it.

The way I try and operate now is to throw little feelers out to people that I actually talk to. I have gotten pretty good at somehow gravitating towards people with open minds, so when I do encounter them, I try to listen to what they say without adding my two cents. When they finally ask me a question, I slowly let tid bits of information out. It's very hard finding that 'stopping point' in conversation using external consideration (for me at least). I'm sure many of you have a vague idea of where to stop a conversation before the people tune you out or dismiss you as a weirdo or conspiracy theorist.

If it works, great. If not, try something else. Recognizing common behavior patterns can help avoid wasting time (work on yours in order to understand theirs, and don't try to fix "them"), but surprises do happen. Check that you aren't unconsciously thinking of yourself as a potential "weirdo or conspiracy theorist."

Similar to how I try to approach it when talking, using context, & same for sharing of original article.