Trump's Jerusalem decision

Windmill knight said:
I agree that a two state solution is not possible. In an ideal world, the solution would be a single secular state, with equal rights to all its citizens regardless of ethnicity or religion, and democratic elections. Since the Palestinians are majority, their representatives would soon find their way to positions of power (assuming there's no rigging). The name of the country, the official language and even the flag would need to be changed too. Basically, the new state of 'Israel-Palestine' or 'Palestine-Israel' would no longer be a 'Jewish state'. Of course, that is never going to happen because the Zionists would not allow it. Their plan was always to have the whole land for themselves for a Jewish state.

<snip>

Personally, I find it hard to believe that Trump thought about this beforehand for the eventual benefit of the Palestinians - especially with that son-in-law of his whispering on his ear. But regardless of whether he did or not, I have no doubt that the Palestinian population that Israel assimilates will be subject to an apartheid system at best (but it could be worse - when have Zionists been shy about violating human rights?).

And then I thought that if the scenario this person describes above comes to pass, then after a few years or decades the project of a 'Jewish state' would be effectively destroyed by both internal and external pressure. Kind of what happened in South Africa. Of course that would be a good thing, but it would still come at a very high cost of human suffering and only after considerable time.

If that happens, people could say that Israel was indeed 'destroyed', and I wondered if perhaps that was what the Cs were referring to in their prediction. Not a destruction with nuclear bombs or natural catastrophes as we could have imagined, but through internal social and political disintegration due to its own evil practices. On the other hand, the Cs also said that the plan was "war in Palestine" and the elimination of carriers of a Semitic gene, so that sounds quite explicitly like bloodbaths may not be avoided. There is also the fact that the whole of the Arab world is already mad at Trump's decision, so that may be a factor too.


Early in November, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas met with Saudi's King Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have been applying immense pressure on Abbas. The Saudi's have proposed - for a peace initiative between Israelis and Palestinians - Saudi offers the village of Abu Dis as the future capital of Palestine instead of East Jerusalem. Saudi Arabia gave Abbas two months to respond to the offer. Abu Dis is described as a Palestinian town, near occupied East Jerusalem and according to the Oslo Accords - it is classified as Area B which is administered by both Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

I get the impression, the Saudi's (with Israel's backing) are trying to pull "a bait and switch deal" to get Abbas and the Palestinians out of East Jerusalem, so Israel can extend it's "wall" to effectively separate the Palestinians from Greater Israel? So far, Abbas has not responded to their offer. I would imagine, that sometime in the first quarter of the New Year, East Jerusalem will be a blood bath? What also comes to mind, the C's prediction of an April event?

The Arab pressure on the Palestinian leadership
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20171130-the-arab-pressure-on-the-palestinian-leadership/

Saudi offers Abu Dis as future capital of Palestine December 6, 2017
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20171206-saudi-offers-abu-dis-as-future-capital-of-palestine/
 
I don't know if most people here saw the article making the rounds on Facebook that ironically stated that Palestine recognized Texas to be part of Mexico?
Surely Trump's move is as absurd and as meaningless as this article's assertion, at least for now?

Once other countries follow suit with similar announcements, it will likely be only a matter of time before Israel announces the change themselves. However, I think that potentially the USA's announcement may be not be quite enough in isolation to encourage Israel to make that move.

One thought does occur: in one way or another the status quo needed to be disturbed and moved along. The situation is the focal point for much human misery and that has to change..

Maybe this move will make Israel tip its hand and allow an 'in' for the UN resolutions concerning Jerusalem to be revisited? FWIW. :shock:
 
Alada said:
Neil said:
If it does ignite the firestorm that many political strategists logically deduce should occur, it would actually be a confirmation of something the Cassiopaeans predicted a long time ago; going along with the much finer order of control being imposed in other domains.

session010924 said:
Q: (L) Well we plan to. What is going to happen with the Middleastern situation; this Afghanistan or whatever?
A: Herding of population to much finer order of control.
Q: (L) What is the purpose of this control; this increasing control.
A: Preparation for war in Palestine.
Q: (L) But nobody has said anything about having a war in Palestine. They're all talking about having a war in Afghanistan. How does Palestine fit in here?
A: It is the ultimate objective of Israel.

Makes more sense if the above Cs snippet is the objective. I was shaking my head yesterday wondering why the heck they would do that when the reactions seem so predictable?

I'd be careful about taking a 16 year old comment from a session and thinking that it applies today. Since 2001, there have been several "wars in Palestine" waged by Israel that were the indirect result of "this Afghanistan or whatever" i.e. the 9/11 attacks and the projection of American power into the Middle East.
 
Alejo said:
It seems to be moving in the direction of “those uncontrollable Muslim barbarians!” Just saw this from RT

_https://www.rt.com/news/412343-israel-siren-app-rockets/

An Israeli siren smartphone app warned rockets were fired at southern Israel near the Gaza Strip. The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) said on Twitter that a “red alert” was activated in the area bordering Gaza.
Trends
US recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s сapital
According to initial reports, “a red alert has been activated” in the regions of Hof Ashkelon and Sha'ar HaNegev, the IDF tweeted. It added that the details of a potential incident are still “under review.”

Later, the IDF confirmed that at least two missiles were launched from the Gaza Strip “towards the State of Israel,” but did not reach it.

Not only did they not reach it, they didn't make it out of the Gaza strip.
 
Windmill knight said:
I agree that a two state solution is not possible. In an ideal world, the solution would be a single secular state, with equal rights to all its citizens regardless of ethnicity or religion, and democratic elections. Since the Palestinians are majority, their representatives would soon find their way to positions of power (assuming there's no rigging). The name of the country, the official language and even the flag would need to be changed too. Basically, the new state of 'Israel-Palestine' or 'Palestine-Israel' would no longer be a 'Jewish state'. Of course, that is never going to happen because the Zionists would not allow it. Their plan was always to have the whole land for themselves for a Jewish state.

While thinking about this:

Possibly smart move by Trump on recognition of Jerusalem as Israeli capital. Every US president has the 'duty' to try and solve the 'Israeli-Palestinian' conflict. Every US president to date has done squat in that regard, usually due to Israeli blocking. The one thing the Israelis have always avoided like the plague is coming to the negotiating table. Life is easier for Israeli politicians when they have an intractable *foreign* enemy that 'does not recognize Israel's right to exist'.
At this point a two state solution is obviously not an option. So one state it is. This may be Trump's angle. Make the first step towards giving the Israelis what they have always claimed they wanted, a state of their own. BUT, it will obviously include the Palestinians, as officially equal citizens.
After all, Israel claims to be the only [Westernized] democracy in the Middle East and Israel would be naturally required to treat all of its citizens equally, and it will have a vested interest in doing so, because a sovereign state in conflict with its own citizens does not look good to the 'international community', does not encourage foreign investment, and makes life hard for Israeli Jews and Palestinians alike.

and this:

I think that Trump has just signed Israel's death warrant.

I happened to come across a FB post of an acquaintance of mine which I found interesting. (Bear in mind that the poster is anti-Trump):

On Trump and Jerusalem: I won't repeat the obvious about what a catastrophic decision this is, but there is another point to be made here as well that points to one a most ironic of unintended consequences: By effectively killing any possibility of a two-state solution, Drumpf and Netanyahu may have inadvertently signalled the death-knell of the Israeli state they wish to triumphally secure.

In the face of the impossibility of a separate Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, the Palestinians may well now shift their tactics to the pursuit of equal rights within a single Israeli state in which non-Jews will be the majority, thus robbing Israel of its claims to exceptionalism by virtue of its predominantly Jewish character and conclusively rendering it a multi-ethnic state where no section of the population is able to exercise conclusive control. The only alternative is an Apartheid-style regime that will make Israel even more of an international pariah that it already is, and may actually serve to hasten then end of the Israel that's existed since 1948. Somehow, I suspect that this is not what either Drumpf, Netanyahu and their lunatic ilk intended.

Is it what I want? Of course not, I would like to see an equitable and just two-state solution. But I suspect that if any of this does come to pass then it will be a textbook example of reaping what you sow.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that Trump thought about this beforehand for the eventual benefit of the Palestinians - especially with that son-in-law of his whispering on his ear. But regardless of whether he did or not, I have no doubt that the Palestinian population that Israel assimilates will be subject to an apartheid system at best (but it could be worse - when have Zionists been shy about violating human rights?).

And then I thought that if the scenario this person describes above comes to pass, then after a few years or decades the project of a 'Jewish state' would be effectively destroyed by both internal and external pressure. Kind of what happened in South Africa. Of course that would be a good thing, but it would still come at a very high cost of human suffering and only after considerable time.

If that happens, people could say that Israel was indeed 'destroyed', and I wondered if perhaps that was what the Cs were referring to in their prediction. Not a destruction with nuclear bombs or natural catastrophes as we could have imagined, but through internal social and political disintegration due to its own evil practices. On the other hand, the Cs also said that the plan was "war in Palestine" and the elimination of carriers of a Semitic gene, so that sounds quite explicitly like bloodbaths may not be avoided. There is also the fact that the whole of the Arab world is already mad at Trump's decision, so that may be a factor too.

Interesting that that person had the same idea I did. Who is the person?
 
Felipe4 said:
Interesting timing though, that Putin made the announcement that he will run again next year.
Now that we are getting into the thick of it, I couldn't imagine the world stage without Putin as the main character. What a show this becoming!
 
Alada said:
Neil said:
If it does ignite the firestorm that many political strategists logically deduce should occur, it would actually be a confirmation of something the Cassiopaeans predicted a long time ago; going along with the much finer order of control being imposed in other domains.
session010924 said:
Q: (L) Well we plan to. What is going to happen with the Middleastern situation; this Afghanistan or whatever?
A: Herding of population to much finer order of control.
Q: (L) What is the purpose of this control; this increasing control.
A: Preparation for war in Palestine.
Q: (L) But nobody has said anything about having a war in Palestine. They're all talking about having a war in Afghanistan. How does Palestine fit in here?
A: It is the ultimate objective of Israel.

It does look very much like a move intended to be inflammatory, highly provocative, especially if the U.S. do also move their embassy. Wouldn’t be the first time Israel has used the reactions of others to justify its next moves.

You’d think that if a reasonable settlement were the objective, then quiet diplomacy and mediation behind the scenes would be the way, not unexpected unilateral moves like this. It’s so provocative that the responses seem fairly predictable, in that there will be backlash, reprisals, and it certainly creates more chaos not greater stability. Could you say then that that was ultimate the aim of this move: to provoke even greater chaos?

Makes more sense if the above Cs snippet is the objective. I was shaking my head yesterday wondering why the heck they would do that when the reactions seem so predictable?
Extreme provocation, I guess. It will probably work because for most Palestinians they have little if anything left to lose and the oppression will take its toll with a 'bang'. Question is, will Israel implicate Iran to make the most of war chaos?
 
I do not know if Trump at the end of this speech just has problems to keep his teeth in place or is somatizing in some way the pressure to which he is subjected by the ptb.

https : //youtu.be/GjsLrK7CaWI

Windmill knight said:
If that happens, people could say that Israel was indeed 'destroyed', and I wondered if perhaps that was what the Cs were referring to in their prediction. Not a destruction with nuclear bombs or natural catastrophes as we could have imagined, but through internal social and political disintegration due to its own evil practices. On the other hand, the Cs also said that the plan was "war in Palestine" and the elimination of carriers of a Semitic gene, so that sounds quite explicitly like bloodbaths may not be avoided. There is also the fact that the whole of the Arab world is already mad at Trump's decision, so that may be a factor too.
Yes. But maybe is not just israel, the C's say "Destruction of Jews." That is something greater than a state: it is the destruction of an ideology / false universal / propaganda and a collective identity that will be left aside. It would be the delegitimization of the lie of the monotheistic god, and would also create chaos in the foundations of Christian and Muslim ideology ("the younger brothers of the Jews" quoting to John Paul II), and in the West culture itself.

goyacobol said:
I agree with the possible scenarios you guys are seeing.

With all the religious programing via biblical prophecy it is not a stretch for me to think most Christians don't have a clue about Zionism and would be OK with say war on Iran or military intervention of some kind.

I don't know if some of the archeological shenanigans will be put to use to strengthen the biblical gloss and blind some Christians even more but I am wondering about this one session questions and answers:

Unless this is just an April Fools joke
Session 1 April 2007
Q: (J) Why are the Israelis digging under the Al-Aqsa Mosque … what are they doing when they are digging under the Al-Aqsa
Mosque?
A: Planting fraudulent antiquities.

Q: (J) The Temple of Solomon … See what we found? It’s all true!
A: They have been practicing on “Jesus”.

It may not be necessary to use this fraudulent technique but they may have something like this in reserve OSIT.

Well, that's fascinating and terrifying. Perhaps the last card up the sleeve of the zionazis is a supremacist jesus jew...Maybe a jesus formed with some technological aid from 4D sts.
 
l apprenti de forgeron said:
Yes. But maybe is not just israel, the C's say "Destruction of Jews." That is something greater than a state: it is the destruction of an ideology / false universal / propaganda and a collective identity that will be left aside. It would be the delegitimization of the lie of the monotheistic god, and would also create chaos in the foundations of Christian and Muslim ideology ("the younger brothers of the Jews" quoting to John Paul II), and in the West culture itself.

...

Well, that's fascinating and terrifying. Perhaps the last card up the sleeve of the zionazis is a supremacist jesus jew...Maybe a jesus formed with some technological aid from 4D sts.

Another possibility is that it could ultimately be used chaos to kill off the monotheistic trio of power structures and in the process justify secular extremism as "the only rational choice".


"See all the problems religion has caused? Just sign right here and it'll never happen again.."
 
Windmill knight said:
Personally, I find it hard to believe that Trump thought about this beforehand for the eventual benefit of the Palestinians - especially with that son-in-law of his whispering on his ear. But regardless of whether he did or not, I have no doubt that the Palestinian population that Israel assimilates will be subject to an apartheid system at best (but it could be worse - when have Zionists been shy about violating human rights?).

I think you should have some doubts about that. There are historical precedents in Western nations that show that when a conflict stops, normalization of the lives of the former combatants occurs, as your FB friend points out, it would not be feasible for the Israelis to engage in a long term demonization of Palestinians in Israel in the context of all living in one state. Notice should be taken of the relatively good standard of living of Palestinians who currently live in Israel. The discrimination against those Palestinians is largely the result of the ongoing conflict.

As for whether or not Trump sees any of this in his recent announcement, its obviously hard to know, but the point I think is that many of the Western 'elite' these days are being hoisted on their own petards as a result of their own arrogance and hubris. A 'natural order' seems to be enforcing itself and it's in this context that the mentioned scenario of a single state solution should be seen.
 
Alfisti said:
One thought does occur: in one way or another the status quo needed to be disturbed and moved along. The situation is the focal point for much human misery and that has to change..

Maybe this move will make Israel tip its hand and allow an 'in' for the UN resolutions concerning Jerusalem to be revisited? FWIW. :shock:

I agree. At least the situation is moving now. It's like when your car is parked facing the wrong direction, you have to drive the wrong direction a little way in order to turn around.
 
Joe said:
As for whether or not Trump sees any of this in his recent announcement, its obviously hard to know, but the point I think is that many of the Western 'elite' these days are being hoisted on their own petards as a result of their own arrogance and hubris. A 'natural order' seems to be enforcing itself and it's in this context that the mentioned scenario of a single state solution should be seen.

When I heard about Trump's announcement, my first thought was that evangelicals and pro-Armageddon orthodox Jews are going to see it as the sign that the Final Days are near. In their interpretation obviously.

For example:


Just read the comments, people are phrasing Israel and are getting ready for rapture. :shock: :rolleyes:
 
Joe said:
Windmill knight said:
Personally, I find it hard to believe that Trump thought about this beforehand for the eventual benefit of the Palestinians - especially with that son-in-law of his whispering on his ear. But regardless of whether he did or not, I have no doubt that the Palestinian population that Israel assimilates will be subject to an apartheid system at best (but it could be worse - when have Zionists been shy about violating human rights?).

I think you should have some doubts about that. There are historical precedents in Western nations that show that when a conflict stops, normalization of the lives of the former combatants occurs, as your FB friend points out, it would not be feasible for the Israelis to engage in a long term demonization of Palestinians in Israel in the context of all living in one state. Notice should be taken of the relatively good standard of living of Palestinians who currently live in Israel. The discrimination against those Palestinians is largely the result of the ongoing conflict.

As for whether or not Trump sees any of this in his recent announcement, its obviously hard to know, but the point I think is that many of the Western 'elite' these days are being hoisted on their own petards as a result of their own arrogance and hubris. A 'natural order' seems to be enforcing itself and it's in this context that the mentioned scenario of a single state solution should be seen.

I thought about this a little when I read WK's comments, but maybe I'm completely off. Here's the thing: even many Palestinian rights activists have given up on a two-state solution for a long time. Here's what Miko Peled wrote in 2009 for example:

https://mikopeled.com/2009/04/22/moving-beyond-the-two-state-solution/ said:
United States envoy to the Middle East, George Mitchell, kicked off a visit to Israel restating the US commitment to the Road Map and the Two State Solution. However, both of these options have become irrelevant and it is time for the administration to seriously study the possibility of the two nations living together within a single democratic state. This is an option that moderate parties on both sides have discussed for decades, only to be silenced by more militant forces that see this as a zero sum game.

The one state option speaks of a single secular democracy between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea within which Israelis and Palestinians would live as equal citizens. This would elevate the rights of Palestinians to those of Israelis it will finally allow the two nations to stop bleeding and begin building. It is an ambitious proposition that Israel and its supporters will surely resist at first. However, judging by the facts on the ground, this may well be the only option available for the two nations.

Giving this some thought, and here it gets really tricky, perhaps I would even go further and acknowledge Israel's right to make sure it remains a primarily "Jewish state"? I mean, if we forget about all the history, emotions etc. for a second - don't other nations claim the right to retain a cultural majority of the dominant ethnicity/religion that lives in those countries as well?

I know it's more complicated because of Israel's brutal history (and current practices) regarding the Palestinians and so on. And maybe you could object that if we grant Israel the right to make sure it has a Jewish majority, we cave in to the psychos who always wanted the "big Israel" solution. But maybe that's not really what the psychos are after, it's just a pretense: what they really want is to bomb Palestinians, to hold them at gunpoint at the checkpoints, and generally just harass them whenever they feel the urge. That's what psychos do, after all.

So imagine a one-state solution with a strong Palestinian minority that is somewhat second-class, in the sense that all minorities in a given dominant culture are somewhat second-class. It doesn't sound like justice, I know, and it isn't; but perhaps in terms of realpolitik this would be a major step forward? After all, Israel would need to stop most of their horrendous crimes and prove to the world that they are indeed a democracy. If they continued to harass the Palestinians the way they do now in the Gaza strip and Westbank, at least it would be obvious to the world.

Obviously, there are still many problems with all this, and I shudder to think of what Israel would consider appropriate measures to "keep a Jewish majority". Or what other psychopathic ways to harass the Palestinians they could come up with. But maybe it's time to think about some realistic scenarios that will actually improve the situation for the Palestinians, even if this means there will be no "historical justice" for them. And let's face it: there probably will never, ever be a Palestinian state; there's no going back. And perhaps some movement is good right now, even if on the surface, it looks as if it's in the wrong direction.

Just some thoughts - not sure at all about all this.
 
l apprenti de forgeron said:
I do not know if Trump at the end of this speech just has problems to keep his teeth in place or is somatizing in some way the pressure to which he is subjected by the ptb.

https : //youtu.be/GjsLrK7CaWI

Windmill knight said:
If that happens, people could say that Israel was indeed 'destroyed', and I wondered if perhaps that was what the Cs were referring to in their prediction. Not a destruction with nuclear bombs or natural catastrophes as we could have imagined, but through internal social and political disintegration due to its own evil practices. On the other hand, the Cs also said that the plan was "war in Palestine" and the elimination of carriers of a Semitic gene, so that sounds quite explicitly like bloodbaths may not be avoided. There is also the fact that the whole of the Arab world is already mad at Trump's decision, so that may be a factor too.
Yes. But maybe is not just israel, the C's say "Destruction of Jews." That is something greater than a state: it is the destruction of an ideology / false universal / propaganda and a collective identity that will be left aside. It would be the delegitimization of the lie of the monotheistic god, and would also create chaos in the foundations of Christian and Muslim ideology ("the younger brothers of the Jews" quoting to John Paul II), and in the West culture itself.

goyacobol said:
I agree with the possible scenarios you guys are seeing.

With all the religious programing via biblical prophecy it is not a stretch for me to think most Christians don't have a clue about Zionism and would be OK with say war on Iran or military intervention of some kind.

I don't know if some of the archeological shenanigans will be put to use to strengthen the biblical gloss and blind some Christians even more but I am wondering about this one session questions and answers:

Unless this is just an April Fools joke
Session 1 April 2007
Q: (J) Why are the Israelis digging under the Al-Aqsa Mosque … what are they doing when they are digging under the Al-Aqsa
Mosque?
A: Planting fraudulent antiquities.

Q: (J) The Temple of Solomon … See what we found? It’s all true!
A: They have been practicing on “Jesus”.

It may not be necessary to use this fraudulent technique but they may have something like this in reserve OSIT.

Well, that's fascinating and terrifying. Perhaps the last card up the sleeve of the zionazis is a supremacist jesus jew...Maybe a jesus formed with some technological aid from 4D sts.

apprenti de forgeron,

As Joe mentioned about a previous session comment that it was 17 years ago and maybe we should't jump to conclusions based on just one Cs session answer. I think there have been many "timeline" variable changes since then.

This quote is 7 years ago and many changes continue at a rapid pace.

I think the part where "They have been practicing on "Jesus"" might be all the archeological "discoveries" centered around Jesus' tomb etc..

Such as these SOTT articles:
Age of Christ's alleged tomb revealed (Tue, 28 Nov 2017)

Geologist claims to have found tomb where mythical Jesus was buried (Sat, 17 Sep 2016)

Did Shroud of Turin Inspire Spread of Christianity? (Thu, 05 Apr 2012)

Connecting the Zionists to the above might be a bit difficult.

On the other hand the Temple of Solomon issue is one that has been debated and may go back as far as 1867 and General Sir Charles Warren, England's Commissioner of Police who "allegedly" "rediscovered" a claustrophobic, 500-yard tunnel named after him.

I don't want to take up valuable time or distract from this topic but there are many right wing fundamentalist Christians who follow this idea of re-establishing the temple with all the ritual implements and sacrifices.

Here is one reference that gives some history of the tunnel: Warren's Tunnel, The Palestinian Riots and The Apocalypse _https://www.revisionisthistory.org/warren.html

I can't vouch for it's authenticity and I don't know if it is on the disinformation list here either.

But there is a post by Laura that I think gives a good idea of the Zionist agenda for the Temple of Solomon: looking for an article about the formation of israel (Rapturing Red Heifers and Rivers of Blood)

With this Trump plan to move the embassy to Jerusalem I don't know if they will actually try to take over the Temple mount where the Al-Aqsa mosque now stands or not.

There are many irons in the fire I think. Will they cool off or just get hotter, "wait and see"? :huh: :/
 
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