Turkey shot down Russian bomber over Syria

[sbeaudry]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Erdogan is one evil sumbitch. Talk about a place that needs a "regime change".

And in typical psychopathic fashion, Erdogan is a big risk taker. And blind in regardt to the consequences.

Time for a cosmic Turkey shoot (pun intended).

His timing is impeccable. I'll roast a turkey and think of him. Any word from China?

EDIT: changed out 'one' for 'a turkey'

 

[obyvatel]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

From BBC

The problem is that according to a radar map released by the Turks themselves, the Russian Sukhoi could at best be described as crossing over Turkish territory.

It flew over a small piece of Turkey that projects into Syria - a tiny isthmus of land that would have taken the fast jet only a few moments to fly over.

So if the plane was shot down, as the Turks say, after entering Turkish airspace, you could equally say it was downed on the way out of Turkish territory too.

Looks like a deliberate act of provocation on Turkey's part.

Terrorists rejoicing at the downing of the Russian jet coming close to the downing of the Russian passenger plane and the Paris terror attacks does not paint a pretty picture for Turkey's actions - whether it be unilateral on Turkey's part or not. Yet another instance of miscalculation on the part of those who think wishfully?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Russia soldier dies in downed jet rescue operations
_http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/11/24/439009/Russia-Syria-Turkey-fighter-jet

 

[Anthony]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Now this: Russian Copter Downed by Syrian Fighters (Video)

_http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/getting-hot-russian-copter-downed-syrian-fighters-video/ri11414

A Syrian insurgent group, recipient of U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Looks like the psychos just drew the line, a thin red line.
AP
Nov 24, 12:53 PM EST
_http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_FRANCE_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-24-12-53-48
The Latest: Obama says Turkey has right to defend airspace
12:45 p.m.

President Barack Obama says the downing of a Russian warplane by Turkey points to an "ongoing problem" with Russia's airstrikes in Syria.

Obama says Turkey "has a right to defend its territory and its airspace." And he says that Russia is operating very close to the Turkish border as it goes after moderate opposition groups that are supported by Turkey and a wide range of countries.

The president says that if Russia would instead concentrate its airstrikes on the Islamic State group, then mistakes would be "less likely to occur."

Obama is urging both Turkey and Russia to take measures "to discourage any kind of escalation" over the downing of the Russian warplane.

And Obama says that the downing of the plane underscores the importance of moving forward on efforts to find a political solution to the civil war in Syria.

The president spoke during a joint news conference with French President Francois Hollande.

12:35 p.m.

French President Francois Hollande (frahn-SWAH' oh-LAWND') says he plans to tell Russian President Vladimir Putin that France can work with Russia, if Moscow concentrates its military action in Syria on fighting the Islamic State group.

Hollande is speaking at the White House alongside President Barack Obama. He says France wants Russia to commit fully to a political solution in Syria and to eradicate terrorism.

Hollande says France wants to work with all countries that are willing to find and implement solutions to Syria's civil war. He says, "We do not want to exclude anyone."

Hollande also says the Syrian refugee crisis is directly relevant to Europe. He says if Europe abandons the millions of refugees fleeing bombs and the Islamic State, it would betray what Europe stands for.

But the French president says Europe must secure its borders. He says Turkey plays an important role. He says Europe must work with Russia to find solutions so that refugees can stay close to their country of origin.

12:15 p.m.

President Barack Obama says Russia's airstrikes against moderate opposition groups in Syria are bolstering the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad.

He's calling on Russia to play a more constructive role by shifting the focus of its airstrikes to defeating the Islamic State.

Obama spoke at a joint news conference with French President Francois Hollande after the two met to discuss the global response to the Islamic State group

Russian President Vladimir Putin says his country is targeting the Islamic State militants. But the U.S. contends Moscow is going after rebels fighting Assad, a Kremlin ally whom the U.S. wants pushed out.

Obama added that the best way to bring peace to Syria is to support a cease fire and a political transition away from Assad.

12:10 p.m.

President Barack Obama says the Islamic State group cannot be tolerated and must be destroyed. He says the U.S. and France must destroy it together.

Obama is speaking after an Oval Office meeting with French President Francois Hollande. Obama says he and Hollande agreed the nations in the U.S.-led coalition must do more together to fight the Islamic State.

Obama is calling it a "barbaric terrorist group." He says this is an important moment for the U.S. and France as well as the rest of the world.

Obama is declaring "total solidarity" with France and pledging to bring justice to the perpetrators and the people who sent them. Obama says the U.S. and France together will "defend out nations."

The president also says the attacks that killed 130 in Paris was an attack on the world itself.

10:25 a.m.

President Barack Obama and French President Francois Hollande have started their Oval Office meeting on the global response to the Islamic State group.

Hollande arrived at the White House midmorning Tuesday. The two planned to take questions at a news conference following their meeting.

The sit-down comes less than two weeks after the Islamic State group launched a series of deadly attacks in Paris. The visit has been complicated by Turkey's shoot-down of a Russian warplane on Tuesday.

Hollande's trip to Washington is part of a diplomatic push to get the international community to bolster the campaign against the Islamic State. But he's likely to leave Washington without firm backing for his call to bring Russia into a new coalition to fight the extremists.

 

[Eulenspiegel]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

I had a serious deja vu watching Putin talk about Turkey rushing to NATO. This is surreal. That's an unprovoked act of war. Putin and Russia showing great restraint so far. This smells to high heaven of yet another provocation to drag Russia into war with NATO and Putin is calling on the international community instead of having a knee jerk reaction. It will be interesting to see what the NATO meeting amounts to this evening. Was Turkey going rogue to protect their Turkmen and stolen oil racket when they did this or was it a planned NATO event to gauge Russian and international community's responses? Kind of scary. Putin said it right. It's a crime and it cannot go unpunished.

Had similar thoughts as well - just feeling really sick with where the ptb are heading with this . One thing we can be sure is that Putin will have a very measured, but equally strong response against this provocation/act of war....the line has definitely been crossed. I only hope that somehow China shows its hand as an ally, if/when NATO uses this contrived act to ramp up the drums of war...

Truly terrible act; this should be considered an act of war.
Apart from the sensational and shallow Bild newspaper (which is like the Fox News of Germany) most other German newspapers are rather neutral about this.

I also hope that China will eventually make its move. Living in China, one gets the impression that sheer capitalism and opportunism rules China, whereas ideology is rather weak these days. So my fear has been and is that it will just get bought by the US Empire.

Then again, this issue came up in one the more recent transcripts:

(Alada) Well, China is so big, but it's so relatively quiet...

A: Still waters run deep and strong. The USA and allies are in for a rude and painful awakening.

With this ever increasing madness, I dearly hope that this is so.

 

[luke wilson]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

This might expose a Russian weakness. If they don't respond in the appropriate way, the PTB will take it as a weakness and carry out more similar action that will result in lose of Russian life and equipment.

Russia basically needs to respond. It cant do nothing. It needs to send a clear message. Yet the message cannot be used as propaganda e.g. Russian aggression.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Only ISIS is of course allowed to travel the Turkish border and back. The fact that Turkey doesn't even open it's airspace to Russia shows it's true alliance. They are fighting ISIS while Turkey is attempting to kill Russian pilots !! Would the public finally get this easy revelation now? I am not holding my breath.

Plane crashed in Syria. Not Turkey. Violated Turkeys airspace ? I don't believe it for a second.

Btw, very rich coming from a country which systematically violates Greek airspace.

Not only Ankara backs Daesh but offers also logistical support - Pepe Escobar
Published on Nov 24, 2015
RT
A Russian warplane has gone down near the Turkish-Syrian border after an apparent attack. Turkish and Russian sources have given conflicting reports about the incident, which has the potential to escalate the tension between Russia and NATO member Turkey.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...eA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Ca.]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

I had a serious deja vu watching Putin talk about Turkey rushing to NATO. This is surreal.

I as well when i posted my first post on this thread. Ever so slight but noticeable.

 

[Laura]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Best thing everybody can do is get out on FB and Twitter and post and repost our stuff, each other's stuff, comments, outrage, etc.

 

[Altair]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

This might expose a Russian weakness. If they don't respond in the appropriate way, the PTB will take it as a weakness and carry out more similar action that will result in lose of Russian life and equipment.

Russia basically needs to respond. It cant do nothing. It needs to send a clear message. Yet the message cannot be used as propaganda e.g. Russian aggression.

I think, the most reasonable move for Russians would be continue to expose PTBs. I won't wonder if Putin would shortly present hard evidence of who really supports ISIS. On the last G20 summit Putin already hinted at that but the PTBs apparently didn't get the message.

 

[rs]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

I have "known" that this was going to happen for some time now. The downing of the Russian SU-24 has nothing to do with border enforcement and everything to do with Electronic Warfare.

The days of just broadcasting a static signal to overwhelm the adversary's radio are long gone. Modern EW systems are astonishingly complex. However, in order to employ countermeasures, you MUST force your adversary to turn on his active systems so you can measure what they can and will do. That is the true goal with this downing. Russia must now decide if they want to show their hand and protect themselves and their pilots or take it on the chin, protect their true capability and appear weak.

Remember KAL007? It was a 747 that was clearly violating sensitive Russian airspace over Sakalin Island. It was being followed by a US EW plane. The intent was to force the Russians to turn on their radar but our miscalculation was that we expected they would not shoot down a "commercial" airliner. The Russians probably really did mistake the 747 for the EW plane, so I believe their story. From our side, it was just a big "oopsies" with "collateral damage".

Reading about the supposed "panic" on the part of the US military about the Russian EW capability only set the stage for this. Since the Russians partially showed their capabilities, we NEEDED to force them to show the rest of their hand so we could develop our own countermeasures.

This has been as predictable as gravity, with the same consequences where something lands on your own foot.

We will see if the Russians take the bait. Ironically, if they appear weak (by not responding with a full military EW response), it is really from a position of strength. Or rather retaining their strength.

Either way, this is incredibly bad news. World War I was started with less (supposedly).

 

[luke wilson]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Putin can also send in ground troops to work hand in hand with Syrian troops. Also, it was unlikely that Russia could carry out a major military campaign and not expect to lose lives and equipment. In the grand scheme of things, 1 jet, 1 helicopter and a handful of lives maybe isn't that bad given that war results in lose.

I always thought though that jets fly in packs and that a helicopter wouldn't fly so low deep in enemy territory unprotected. Plus, why didn't the Russian pilots not eject from the jet?

 

[Ca.]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Best thing everybody can do is get out on FB and Twitter and post and repost our stuff, each other's stuff, comments, outrage, etc.

Yep. Never liked it. It just seemed to have a (Personal information exploitation), monitoring capacity that favored the PTB.

 

[Altair]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Putin can also send in ground troops to work hand in hand with Syrian troops. Also, it was unlikely that Russia could carry out a major military campaign and not expect to lose lives and equipment. In the grand scheme of things, 1 jet, 1 helicopter and a handful of lives maybe isn't that bad given that war results in lose.

I always thought though that jets fly in packs and that a helicopter wouldn't fly so low deep in enemy territory unprotected. Plus, why didn't the Russian pilots not eject from the jet?

They did: https://www.rt.com/news/323281-russian-pilots-killed-turkmen/

Here is Russia's response:

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

Moscow plans to suspend military cooperation with Ankara after the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish air forces, Russian General Staff representatives said on Tuesday. Further measures to beef up Russian air base security in Syria will also be taken.
Three steps as announced by top brass:

1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
2. Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
3. Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended

Source: https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/