Turkey shot down Russian bomber over Syria

[bjorb]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Here is Turkey's letter today to the UN Security Council over Russian jet shootdown :

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/669188253279473664/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

I original found this on a mainstream media outlet which while condemning Russia didn't found it worth-well to point out that the Turks claimed that the SU-24 for just 17 seconds entered their airspace.

17 seconds !!! That totally justifies the murder of the pilot of course. NATO made it clear that it stands in solidarity with Turkey. That's a way of saying this murder was justice served. Just 1 anonymous letter send by a NATO member told the Turks this tragedy could also be dealt with by other means. But that's hardly condemning someone and it was send in anonymous. Cowards are apparently afraid to speak up.


Hollande is flying to Moscow tomorrow but here is why I think nothing will chance. The Russian alternative is respect of sovereignty and mutual beneficence. This is something psychopaths will never be able to grasp. They rather act under the wing of the US/empire and be a vassal where they can invade and dominate others instead of acting like normal human beings.

Putin will lecture Hollande for sure and rightfully so. But Hollande approval rating just increased thanks to the Empire's terror attacks on French soil. Why should he care, maybe he is even glad that it happened. It strengthened his position. This guy is a sad excuse of a human being and most likely a psychopath.

Tighten your seat belts because all alternatives clearly dried up. The Universe is going to clean house. It's the only way to fix this and that's why it is going to happen.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Insane in the membrane

Lindsey Graham: Shoot Down Russian Planes In Syria
Published on Nov 14, 2015
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO1O5skFGh4

It's good to know that at least one Republican candidate has forgotten the Cold War and the fear everyone felt that the next World War would end in annihilation, isn't it?

 

[Ca.]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Best thing everybody can do is get out on FB and Twitter and post and repost our stuff, each other's stuff, comments, outrage, etc.

Yep. Never liked it. It just seemed to have a (Personal information exploitation), monitoring capacity that favored the PTB.

I think it's way late in the day to be worrying about that, the PTB have had full access to everything for a looong time now. If what we share can make a difference (and from what the Cs have said that seems to be so), then I’d rather shake off those kind of fears and set to it It’s a non-linear world!

Makes sense but still a non participant. As there are other avenues as well to inform the masses of the diabolical lie's of the PTB.

They continue to manipulate our emotions and catalog the data for future events that favor there agenda. But passing information to links is a good thing.

But still feel that face to face contact is what they are trying to eliminate and undermined.

So go with caution and common sense.

The "JADE" In Jade Helm 15 Is An A.I. SOFTWARE Program
Published on May 16, 2015
RISE OF THE MACHINE
_https://youtu.be/FiKBPmq37Yo

 

[Sol Logos]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

What we now need is more war-talk. Time to bring the world on the brink of destruction. Maybe that will give Europe the appropriate shock and rethink their poisonous alignment. China is btw way to silent.

As for Erdogan and his pack of gangsters. They should all be crushed. If the consortium can intimidate the world with ‘star wars’ weaponry so can Russia. They have equivalents. Tear down his plane with him and his ilk on it and make sure the world powers are watching.

If you play first class lapdog of the Empire you better burn for it.


Russia has given Europe its chance to sober up. Any hope of that is now gone if you ask me. I truly hoped it wasn’t. But I think it clearly is. Time to expose the war on terror for what it really is. France included. No more subtle remarks of giving them a chance to take there loses.

Time to let the drums of war be heard.

And time to crush Erdogan in every literally sense of the word.



[quote author=Lilou]King Abdullah of Jordan met with Putin today in Sochi for a planned visit that was announced last week. The downed fighter jet by Turkey sure put a somber mood over the meeting.The picture posted with the article shows very grim faces.

King Abdullah of Jordan graduated at the UK's Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. Means he has ties with the US/ UK establishment. I suspect he is just looking for business opportunities with Russia but the US would never allow it. He is a loyal corrupt dog. Nothing more.

Putin and Lavrov wasted many diplomatic missions on people like that. Or not, it forces them to show there true colors.
[/quote]

War doesnt discriminate much between the good and bad guys, what happens is that many people suffer that have nothing or very little to do with it all. Actually the people that have a direct hand in war suffer much less in number and extent than those who don't.

If I had a direct hand in it and I actually saw more of the big picture but had a heart like I feel Putin does, I wouldn't share your opinion at all.

 

[bjorb]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

[quote author=alkhemst]War doesnt discriminate much between the good and bad guys, what happens is that many people suffer that have nothing or very little to do with it all. Actually the people that have a direct hand in war suffer much less in number and extent than those who don't.[/quote]

I said war-talk. Not going to war. Big difference. And taking out Erdogan by such covert means does not result in war. Unless you think the media is going to blame Russia for inventing 'star-wars' I heavily doubt they going to open that can of worms. I already said that I wouldn't how to really act but I do know that if Russia doesn't show its teeth now the Empire will take more casualties + its vassals will stay in line because they don't have to fear escalation.

There is good, there is bad. And there is the situation which decides what is what.

 

[sToRmR1dR]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

One of two pilots has been rescued by the Syrian Army:

http://sputniknews.com/world/20151125/1030711148/pilot-russian-jet-syrian-army.html

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Not good, not good at all. Erdogan is playing at a very dangerous game protecting their ratline into Syria - and Russia has changed the complexity of that line. Pulling the trigger is easy, yet they did not likley do this without a green light from their master backers; so what is their plan? Whatever it is, given "the best laid plans of mice and men", there will be counter balances, and Putin is not alone.

May the people of Turkey voice to the heavens over the deeds of these reckless psychopaths in power.

 

[Shared Joy]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Here is Turkey's letter today to the UN Security Council over Russian jet shootdown :

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/669188253279473664/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

I original found this on a mainstream media outlet which while condemning Russia didn't found it worth-well to point out that the Turks claimed that the SU-24 for just 17 seconds entered their airspace.

17 seconds !!! That totally justifies the murder of the pilot of course. NATO made it clear that it stands in solidarity with Turkey. That's a way of saying this murder was justice served. Just 1 anonymous letter send by a NATO member told the Turks this tragedy could also be dealt with by other means. But that's hardly condemning someone and it was send in anonymous. Cowards are apparently afraid to speak up.


Hollande is flying to Moscow tomorrow but here is why I think nothing will chance. The Russian alternative is respect of sovereignty and mutual beneficence. This is something psychopaths will never be able to grasp. They rather act under the wing of the US/empire and be a vassal where they can invade and dominate others instead of acting like normal human beings.

Putin will lecture Hollande for sure and rightfully so. But Hollande approval rating just increased thanks to the Empire's terror attacks on French soil. Why should he care, maybe he is even glad that it happened. It strengthened his position. This guy is a sad excuse of a human being and most likely a psychopath.

Tighten your seat belts because all alternatives clearly dried up. The Universe is going to clean house. It's the only way to fix this and that's why it is going to happen.

I think Hollande's action could not be considered as an alliance: first there was nor request from Syria, neither approval for participation, second there's a long history of systematic refusals (ex.to honor delivery contract for the carrier) and hindrances towards Russia (economic sanctions), so I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

 

[Aeneas]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

[quote author=alkhemst]War doesnt discriminate much between the good and bad guys, what happens is that many people suffer that have nothing or very little to do with it all. Actually the people that have a direct hand in war suffer much less in number and extent than those who don't.

I said war-talk. Not going to war. Big difference. And taking out Erdogan by such covert means does not result in war. Unless you think the media is going to blame Russia for inventing 'star-wars' I heavily doubt they going to open that can of worms. I already said that I wouldn't how to really act but I do know that if Russia doesn't show its teeth now the Empire will take more casualties + its vassals will stay in line because they don't have to fear escalation.

There is good, there is bad. And there is the situation which decides what is what.
[/quote]

The US via its puppet Turkey most likely would like the drums of war to be sounded and the breaking of alliances. But I don't think Putin will do that. There are so many other ways to make Erdogan and his masters suffer that will hurt much more. One would be to make sure the NATO mercenary force, IS, is routed. Another is to keep building alliances including the weak links in Europe. Yet another is jam electronics of NATO planes inside Syrian airspace.

The best move is the one that nobody anticipated, which doesn't hurt Russia itself either.

It is also best if the Turkish people boot out Erdogan and not some outside force. If Erdogan is taking out in a covert operation as you allude to above, Bjorn, then it will only rally the Turkish people around one of the people in the cabal around him, who will be elected, so it wouldn't achive anything other than removing one psychopath and giving support for the next one of his ilk. Osit.

 

[bjorb]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Yes, you may well be right Aeneas. I never meant saying that going to war is a suitable option. And it may also be a good thing that I am not in charge, right now I am really angry and also really disappointed. I had my bets placed that Europe would used this as to raise conflict in NATO and possible leave the alliance for good. If there are elements seeking a way out. This was the perfect opportunity and they didn't. They all stand in solidarity with Turkey, are you kidding me.

 

[RedFox]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Quote from: sbeaudry on Yesterday at 11:30:05 PM

Yeah, it's a little scary. I've been pretty active today and had a message request from someone who I have no connections with, is a sergeant in the US army (according to his page) and he asked what my opinion was on the downed Russian jet. I deleted the request but now I'm thinking I should have recorded his name. i want to say Steve Owen or something like that. Creepy

i have been intimidated on Fb before, twice, by people using someone else's id and page, and they posted into my chat, with warnings me that i was in big trouble or something to that effect, because of what i was posting. So i responded in kind, and it turned out that they were insiders who could somehow use an account of an Fb friend?? So, many possibilities with this type of interaction, Though, it is wise to remain cool, calm and collected, and as you said, just jot down some reference points just in case. Both times when this happened to me, the next day or day there after, the owners of the accounts put out posts explaining that they were hacked by someone who either challenged or were out right obnoxious to people connected to their accounts about something posted?? Better to be safe though... and just stay silent IMO...

fwiw (and perhaps it's just the mood I'm in given what's going on in the world) I'd be inclined to take a screen shot of the intimidation and share it on FB.

 

[loreta]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Yes, you may well be right Aeneas. I never meant saying that going to war is a suitable option. And it may also be a good thing that I am not in charge, right now I am really angry and also really disappointed. I had my bets placed that Europe would used this as to raise conflict in NATO and possible leave the alliance for good. If there are elements seeking a way out. This was the perfect opportunity and they didn't. They all stand in solidarity with Turkey, are you kidding me.

Your comment makes me remember when Europe was in the brink of the Second World War and the hope of the population, in every country, following the "meetings" of politicians, hoping so much a common sense from them, hoping intelligence, hoping for nothing because, as we say in French: "les dés sont piqués", (the dice are loaded) and hope common sense or right actions from European governments is hoping for nothing. Is it like I say: I hope Spain will put NATO outside this country. It will never happen. Never, ever. My words I want to say are not a critic of your words, please don't take me wrong. It is just that we all hope that these beasts in the power will wake up to be humans, and we can see, this is not possible. They are not humans. So it is impossible to wait a human reaction from them!

Well, what did we expect from NATO psychopaths?

Cs did say things were going to start getting rough from now on.

And they are right. We can see how rough it is not just in the political realm, the geo-political realm, but on the population, the hysteria, the racism, the craziness that we just start to see, and this is just the beginning. And it is rough not just in what we see, outside us, but inside us, in what we feel because we can see and it is very hard to see all this.

But the c's also say:

A: Relax now and enjoy the show.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

I'm wondering if the Turks are lying about the jet's flight path, or if they are claiming their 'borders' encompass land that is actually Syria. Can someone overlay the two images in this article to see (i.e. the Turkish-provided map and the Russian one shown in the YT vid)?

http://fortruss.blogspot.fr/2015/11/who-violated-whos-airspace-you-decide.html

The coastlines look different in each one, so they may not be using the same mapping methods, but maybe something can be gleaned.

I grabbed the images, scaled them until the coast line matched and then overlayed them.

*edit* given the difference between the radar data/borders, I don't know how accurate it is.....but the coastlines match

Thanks for composing the overlay image. But it seems the two paths of the jets (red, blue) do not match at all... Maybe someone used flight paths of a previous time to claim whatever was convenient?

 

[Mal7]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Turkey's act of shooting down the Russian jet seems to me very crazy and provocative. It is like the world has become so mad, that the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction via a Doomsday Machine (as in the "Dr Strangelove" film) would no longer be an effective deterrent.

Countries that are against IS/DAESH should consider as a kind of pariah state any country that supports IS by buying its oil, which Turkey is reported to be doing to the tune of about $800 million dollars. That money directly funds IS.

Sanctions and boycotts against Turkey might tend to only punish the general population, and not the pathocrats in power. Hopefully the Turkish population can vote in a less trigger-happy leader in their next elections. For the present, I don't know if there is much the general Turkish population could do in the interests of promoting peace and ending Turkey's support of IS as a proxy army - Turkey from some reports seems to be a country that could easily crack down harshly on political dissent, as Egypt has become since the Arab Spring (. . . there is an interesting article on Sisi's prisons in Egypt here: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n04/tom-stevenson/sisis-way ).

 

[Sol Logos]

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

...right now I am really angry and also really disappointed. I had my bets placed that Europe would used this as to raise conflict in NATO and possible leave the alliance for good. If there are elements seeking a way out. This was the perfect opportunity and they didn't. They all stand in solidarity with Turkey, are you kidding me.

It's completely understandable, I get it and honestly too I feel dissapointed often about such things. But it's been useful for me to see how hope that ordinary politicians especially in "the West" would come to their senses at even critical times is still a form of wishful thinking in many ways, especially given that those who might act from foresight, would be rarely in such positions of power - as real foresight runs against a psychopathic worldview