upsetting knee-jerk reaction

[truth seeker]

It sounds as if the answer to the dream is in your post above. :) Don't beat up on yourself, however. Just take your time and read as much as you can.

 

[eliansito]

This thread has helped me also. Though I have learned not to have knee jerk reactions when others hand was rightfully slapped, I do have them when mine are rightfully slapped...

Until now my reactions, besides the rationalization-self defense-tantrum, have been various and (slowly) more and more conscious OSIT, I found that staying away from the forum to get on with the reading, or taking time to reply and reread helped getting a perspective.

Overtime I also have come to appreciate the perceived harshness, and the perceived lack or lot of patience that someone who is in the position to teach me has shown. To this day I believe this forum is one of those places where one can safely surrender so to speak.

Paraphrasing my exchange with Anart in one of those occasions:

-Don't give up on me.
-We will not give up on you until you give up on yourself, and even then we still hold some hope for you.

This said it all for me.

 

[tendrini]

I have been reading quite a bit since I started this thread - Mask of Sanity, Trapped in the Mirror, Unholy Hungers, Book 7 of the Wave Series, all of which have had a profound effect. For some reason, maybe EE, I'm remembering events in my past in which I was insensitive, irresponsible or blind to a situation. Sometimes I would realize what I had done and feel terribly sorry, but it's only now that I'm seeing many others that I wasn't aware of. A huge amount of remorse, regret and guilt are coming up.

I had decided not to try and post anything else until I stopped being a "false personality", especially after reading the "telepathy" thread and coming to the realization that the forum members can in way "see right through me" by what I write. I have this fear that I am one of those Type B personality disorders who will be gotten rid of, and that there is no hope that I can change.

Then, I had another awful college dream, but this time, I couldn't even find the classroom where I was supposed to take my very first class. After wandering around looking, I decided to go home, but my car lost its brakes and hurtled backwards down a long steep road till coming to a stop in the mud.

This made me think that perhaps I am still not getting something. I'm wondering if it's ok for me to keep posting, even though I'm still the same person I was when I was rude and insulting. The one thing that is hardest for me to do is to ask for help, especially since I have "bitten the hand that feeds me", and also the fact that I have contributed very little to the forum in all the years I have been reading and benefiting from this information. I would like to change, but I don't know how.

 

[Buddy]

I have been reading quite a bit since I started this thread - Mask of Sanity, Trapped in the Mirror, Unholy Hungers, Book 7 of the Wave Series, all of which have had a profound effect. For some reason, maybe EE, I'm remembering events in my past in which I was insensitive, irresponsible or blind to a situation. Sometimes I would realize what I had done and feel terribly sorry, but it's only now that I'm seeing many others that I wasn't aware of. A huge amount of remorse, regret and guilt are coming up.

That is completely normal. When it happens to me it means I am slowly coming around to seeing the programming I had previously been denying because I was identified with my "ideal self".

I had decided not to try and post anything else until I stopped being a "false personality", especially after reading the "telepathy" thread and coming to the realization that the forum members can in way "see right through me" by what I write.

I wouldn't worry about that. In my view, there are two ways a person might "see through you" in the way you mean. One, the person has been through the same cleansing process and simply recognizes the dynamics at work. Such a person has only compassion and understanding for you. The other is a person who will see in you what they find in themselves and might react in a way that helps them see something in themselves through the mirror effect - something they may have been unaware of. Either way there is no danger to you and the Mods and Admin will make sure you have a safe experience.

I have this fear that I am one of those Type B personality disorders who will be gotten rid of, and that there is no hope that I can change.

Well, welcome to the club. I've had the same fears!

I'm wondering if it's ok for me to keep posting, even though I'm still the same person I was when I was rude and insulting.

Of course, the main ingredient required for participating and benefiting is sincerity and respecting the forum guidelines, OSIT.

The one thing that is hardest for me to do is to ask for help, especially since I have "bitten the hand that feeds me", and also the fact that I have contributed very little to the forum in all the years I have been reading and benefiting from this information. I would like to change, but I don't know how.

Don't worry about forcing a change. Change is unavoidable when we really learn our lessons and we desire the change. Once you learn that you can't walk forward with both feet stuck together, it will be hard for you to un-learn what you've learned (if your goal is to improve). :)

 

[EmeraldHope]

I have been reading quite a bit since I started this thread - Mask of Sanity, Trapped in the Mirror, Unholy Hungers, Book 7 of the Wave Series, all of which have had a profound effect. For some reason, maybe EE, I'm remembering events in my past in which I was insensitive, irresponsible or blind to a situation. Sometimes I would realize what I had done and feel terribly sorry, but it's only now that I'm seeing many others that I wasn't aware of. A huge amount of remorse, regret and guilt are coming up.

I had decided not to try and post anything else until I stopped being a "false personality", especially after reading the "telepathy" thread and coming to the realization that the forum members can in way "see right through me" by what I write. I have this fear that I am one of those Type B personality disorders who will be gotten rid of, and that there is no hope that I can change.

Then, I had another awful college dream, but this time, I couldn't even find the classroom where I was supposed to take my very first class. After wandering around looking, I decided to go home, but my car lost its brakes and hurtled backwards down a long steep road till coming to a stop in the mud.

This made me think that perhaps I am still not getting something. I'm wondering if it's ok for me to keep posting, even though I'm still the same person I was when I was rude and insulting. The one thing that is hardest for me to do is to ask for help, especially since I have "bitten the hand that feeds me", and also the fact that I have contributed very little to the forum in all the years I have been reading and benefiting from this information. I would like to change, but I don't know how.

Tendrini- if you were a true type B I do not think that you would be very concerned, lol. :D


For what it is worth, I have been following this forum for years on and off and not posting. ( I had some very bad group experiences as a child, and I had to really work through that before I felt ok to join the discussions here .) I can see now how much that held me back in terms of growth. It's funny, but there are things that I did not even grok about this forum until I started interacting with it. I waited too long to interact, actually, out of many of the fears you listed above. I do not think now, that waiting was necessary. I just slowed myself down by doing that.

I think everyone here knows that you were not intentionally being rude. ;) It is normal to feel bad when you see things like that about yourself, but try not to beat yourself up. You are taking steps to see it and correct it. That is more than the majority out there do.


edited- spelling

 

[anart]

I have been reading quite a bit since I started this thread - Mask of Sanity, Trapped in the Mirror, Unholy Hungers, Book 7 of the Wave Series, all of which have had a profound effect. For some reason, maybe EE, I'm remembering events in my past in which I was insensitive, irresponsible or blind to a situation. Sometimes I would realize what I had done and feel terribly sorry, but it's only now that I'm seeing many others that I wasn't aware of. A huge amount of remorse, regret and guilt are coming up.

I had decided not to try and post anything else until I stopped being a "false personality",

If we all waited to post until we stopped being a 'false personality', the forum would be empty. ;)

I'm wondering if it's ok for me to keep posting, even though I'm still the same person I was when I was rude and insulting. The one thing that is hardest for me to do is to ask for help, especially since I have "bitten the hand that feeds me", and also the fact that I have contributed very little to the forum in all the years I have been reading and benefiting from this information. I would like to change, but I don't know how.

The best way to grow, and to contribute to others here, is to post. Everyone is a work in progress, how could it be any other way?

 

[Laura]

The main thing to keep in mind is that you would not be seeking if you didn't have questions. And you wouldn't have questions that are not answered to your satisfaction if there wasn't some disconnect between what you have "learned" - or have been taught - and what some part of you observes. You can probably conclude from this that what you have been taught either isn't enough, or is false. If that is the case, then you really can't know what part of what you think and how you react is real and based on reality and what is not.

In short, you can't think about the way you think WITH the way you think.

If you can just accept this as a working hypothesis and TEST it for awhile, see what results you get, then you can make a choice to keep going or go back to where you were.

Here, nobody asks you to believe anything, but we do ask you to temporarily adopt the notion that everything you have learned or think you know MAY be wrong.

If you can do that, really question your SELF when you react to things, let others know what your "automatic programs" are saying/doing, and be prepared to look at things from other angles, then there is the possibility of really doing some work.

 

[wattsup]

In short, you can't think about the way you think WITH the way you think.

If you can just accept this as a working hypothesis and TEST it for awhile, see what results you get, then you can make a choice to keep going or go back to where you were.

Wow, that really sum's it up for me... I think that there is sort of a sequence happening when one come here.

First we could say that there is the EGO, the person starting here come in with all it's belief, life experiences, ... Then the fractionating, dismantlement of the EGO that is being done by acquiring knowledge and trough different interaction, mirroring.

When one can see all of his limitation, discomfort then and only then, one can start shaping polishing the new ego (the stone) which is the real one, the true person's one compare with the first EGO which was sort of an illusionary self by reacting to life's event, programming (experience) and pre-programming (karma).

Can someone confirm this...?


wattsup

 

[cubbex]

Are there no sacred cows on this forum?

Yes, I am a sacred cow. Or, better, a sacred elephant. Because I am a moderator and I feel responsible for what kind of knowledge this forum propagates and which not. This forum has its specific profile. Other forums have different profiles. It is not that difficult to get a feeling what our profile is. Many people do not like it. Many hate it, feeling that they are "not at home" here. But fortunately there are many homes around and everybody will find one that fits their needs.

There is a research and there is another research. I am a scientist (exact sciences, not some Jungian stuff), and yet even in exact sciences there are never ending fights about what constitutes a good research and what is a lousy one. Different journals have different profiles. Papers not accepted in one journal are often accepted in a different journal. Many journals of good reputation will reject papers that are a bit original. Many other journals will publish almost everything.

One has to have a really good sense and knowledge to discriminate. You may like to read my editorial here if you want to understand that there is a difference between facts and speculations. This difference is not obvious for everyone. Therefore please, leave it to us to decide what is what when published on our forum.

I have felt that ark. But I know the other homes are like, a farm, you go to get killed as a cow. And there is just a black hole. But here on the forum, yes I know read the answers in writing looks at least for me a little cold, but is not, Us have to see the path you and Laura have taken so you have absolutely all the rights to bring order to the forum. And I always see funny and inspirational post from you, its like poetry or something.

So I don't think here are sacred cows, if one person is working on his being, so it does not have sacred cows, is just learning from everywhere. Obviously at the beginning could have some but they are necessary to learn of as I said "everyhing"

 

[tendrini]

Oops -

I didn't realize that there were any more responses to this thread.

First, I'd like to thank Laura for her observations. I have avoided posting in the past because I have felt "apart" from this forum, that there was something in me that didn't belong. My posts always felt dishonest, fake. I'm not sure this has changed, but at least I'm noticing it. Part of me wishes I could go back in time and not start this thread, and avoid being "exposed", but maybe that's part of the lesson. I just hope I'm capable of doing the work.

Much thanks to all.

 

[ana]

Oops -

I didn't realize that there were any more responses to this thread.

First, I'd like to thank Laura for her observations. I have avoided posting in the past because I have felt "apart" from this forum, that there was something in me that didn't belong. My posts always felt dishonest, fake. I'm not sure this has changed, but at least I'm noticing it. Part of me wishes I could go back in time and not start this thread, and avoid being "exposed", but maybe that's part of the lesson. I just hope I'm capable of doing the work.

Much thanks to all.

It is up to you tendrini, what is for sure is that you can count on us :) If you read through the forum you will see that what you are experiencing is very common.The great news is that you are starting to see this part in yourself, something necessary to bring a real self.

Predator`s Mind

This is the Castaneda term for that which aligns man with the thought center of service to self. In Active Side of Infinity, Don Juan tells Castaneda of the Earth being invaded in the mists of time by creatures of condensed darkness, the so-called Flyers which use man as food.

The key idea as that these cosmic predators gave man their own mind. This is reasonable in light of much other material. At the human level, a system based on exploitation and consuming and control is seen to shape people in its own image: The slave tends to dream of becoming a master rather than of abolishing slavery. Any organization based on dominance naturally takes the form of a pyramid with few at the top and most at the bottom. For man to be the bottom or in some cases intermediate level of such a system, man must have the attributes of the dominators, only at a reduced scale.

At the metaphysical level, many channeled sources point out that while STS beings eat what they can, energies emanating from STO oriented beings are not edible.

Castaneda's writings in large part deal with ways of claiming one's own in terms of energy and free will from such a system. The battle is in large part internal. One must unmask and stand up to one's internal predator first. Otherwise one's external actions, even if well motivated, take place in the paradigm and mode of the predator. The internal predator can be extremely subtle. Still, it has some general recognizable characteristics: Castaneda puts it as follows: [excerpted]

"They [the sorcerers of ancient Mexico]discovered that we have a companion for life. We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don't do so." […]
You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics,. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico." " […] They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, gallineros, the predators rear us in human coops humaneros. Therefore, their food is always available to them." […]

"I want to appeal to your analytical mind. . Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed, and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal." " […] In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engage themselves in a stupendous maneuver-stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now. "I know that even though you have never suffered hunger, you have food anxiety, which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver isgoing to be uncovered and food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. And they ensure, in this manner, a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear." " {end quote]

Castaneda further explains that infants are born with a glowing coat of awareness and that this is what the predator eats, to the point where only a narrow fringe is left. This narrow fringe is sufficient to keep man alive. This narrow fringe is man's self-reflection, where man is irremediably caught. From the book: '

By playing on our self-reflection, which is the only point of awareness left to us, the predators create flares of awareness that they proceed to consume in a ruthless, predatory fashion. They give us inane problems that force those flares of awareness to rise, and in this manner they keep us alive in order for them to be fed with the energetic flare of our pseudoconcerns.'

From Don Juan:
'[The sorcerers of ancient Mexico] reasoned that man must have been a complete being at one point, with stupendous insights, feats of awareness that are mythological legends nowadays. And then everything seems to disappear, and we have now a sedated man." […]

what we have against us is not a simple predator. It is very smart, and organized. It follows a methodical system to render us useless. Man, the magical being that he is destined to be, is no longer magical. He's an average piece of meat. There are no more dreams for man but the dreams of an animal who is being raised to become a piece of meat: trite, conventional, imbecilic." […]

"The only alternative left for mankind," he continued, "is discipline. Discipline is the only deterrent. But by discipline I don't mean harsh routines. I don't mean waking up every morning at five-thirty and throwing cold water on yourself until you're blue. Sorcerers understand discipline as the capacity to face with serenity odds that are not included in our expectations. For them, discipline is an art: the art of facing infinity without flinching, not because they are strong and tough but because they are filled with awe.') "Sorcerers say that discipline makes the glowing coat of awareness unpalatable to the flyer," […]

The invasion of the predators would roughly correspond to the Fall. The Cassiopaeans have spoken of man finding himself cut off from former capabilities, as if amnesiac after a head injury, all this reflected in scrambling of DNA. The choice of increased physicality and service to self essentially amounts to even inviting the predator's mind into one's own.

Man is born sane and spoiled by contemporary education, inculcated with the 'values' of ego, hypocrisy, self-calming, empty wiseacrings, vanity and self-love. [Gurdjieff] When man reaches adult age, only the fringe of the glowing coat of awareness is left, barely covering the toes. This fringe is the center of self-reflection, the only awareness left to man. [Castaneda]

The Cassiopaeans and Ra speak of man's consciousness being food in many places. In order not to be food, one needs to change internally. These sources call this alignment with STO and objectivity, Castaneda calls this discipline, impeccability, being a warrior fighting to be free. Gurdjieff calls this objective reason, Impartiality, acquiring being and objective conscience and being as a man ought to be.
The parallels go further. Castaneda's sorcerer, having caused the predator's mind to flee, is akin to Gurdjieff's description of the real I, when it is first glimpsed through the veil of personality. It is small, insecure, unsteady and shifting. Nurturing this and bringing the personality into unity through fusing it with shocks is a characteristic of all the paths discussed here.