Vaccination of Dogs and Cats - Very Important Information

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Michał said:
WHO? The WHO which recently advised not eating meat, because it is cancerogenic?
Lets not throw the baby out with bathwater, indeed when it comes to nutritional advice WHO is very often mouthpiece of big corporations, but when it comes to eradication of certain disease WHO has done sterling job.
It's not really black and white.

Michał said:
I recommendy you very much following book:

http://www.amazon.com/Chimp-River-Emerged-African-Forest/dp/0393350843/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1446900885&sr=8-8&keywords=aids

Although there are few quite a good books that are saying something opposite.
Apples and oranges really, AIDS has nothing to do with rabies. Besides there are many difficult theories on origins of AIDS, none of them has been proven by now. I tend to focus more on factual data.
The first description of rabies symptoms dates was recorded in ancient times. In other words this disease has been observed and studied for at least several thousands of years ;)
 

Kenny McCormick

Padawan Learner
Can you provide me with at least one documented case of death from rabies in Europe? If not, then you just talking what you imagine, not what is real. WHO recommends also a lot of vaccines, although there no proof they really work. Where is word "vaccine" there is a fraud. Why rabies should be an exception?
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Michał said:
Can you provide me with at least one documented case of death from rabies in Europe? If not, then you just talking what you imagine, not what is real.

If you look closely at the links I provided you will find quite a few well documented cases

The number of human cases of indigenous origin recorded in Europe diminished in parallel with the retreat of the vulpine rabies ‘front’ [FIGURE 1]. From 2000 to 2004, 45 cases of indigenous human rabies were reported, all in countries where the vulpine enzootic rabies continues (see below), in central and eastern Europe [table 1], [FIGURE 2]
No cases were identified during this period in the regions where only canine rabies is present (Turkey for example). This difference is probably not related to a higher pathogenicity of the vulpine virus compared with the canine virus in humans but rather to a failure to implement human rabies prophylaxis procedures. As an illustration of this, the number of human cases that occurred in western European countries affected by vulpine rabies is low . In France for example, more than 49 000 cases of animal rabies have been recorded and no indigenous human case has everbeen reported. However, a significant number of anti-rabies treatments (3000 to 10 000 per year) were administered in France when vulpine rabies was enzootic.
Note that up to 10000 post exposure treatments per year were administered, this means that anti-rabies serum is administered maximum 6 hours after the bite by suspect animal. Once the virus enters the nervous tissue, antibodies cannot eliminate it, therefore its important to administer anti-rabies serum within maximum 6-8 h post exposure which is the time required for the virus to reach major neural pathways from the bite site.
This blanket treatment which is now normal European/USA protocol in areas with rabies in any situation where the bite by dog or wild animal occurred has significantly lowered the number of human deaths from rabies in past decades.

With the exception of the patient from the United Kingdom in 2002, all of these cases were attributed to infections with genotype 1 lyssavirus (classic canine rabies).
Infectious contact with a wild or a domesticated carnivore was reported for any of these human cases excepted the case from the United Kingdom in 2002 and Lithuanian case in 2004.
The origin of the infection of the Lithuanian case diagnosed in 2004 could not be determined; it concerned a 5 year old boy living in a rural region where cases of vulpine rabies are regularly recorded [18]. The patient from Scotland in the United Kingdom diagnosed in 2002 died of an encephalitis due to EBLV-2 virus for which bats are the reservoirs (see specific article in this issue) [19]. This patient, a professional bat handler, endured several dozens of bites during the course of each capture season. He had not been vaccinated prophylactically against rabies and he did not wear gloves while handling bats. The last known bite before appearance of symptoms had been inflicted by a Daubenton’s bat (Myotis daubentonii) approximately 2 months before the onset of rabies symptoms [20]. The patient had not received PET after any of his bites. This was the fourth case of rabies due to EBLV described worldwide and the second attributable to EBLV-2. The first case concerned a Finnish bat handler who captured and handled bats in Switzerland and Finland, and who died of rabies in 1985 [21-22]. A case of human rabies caused by EBLV-1 was described in the former Soviet Union in 1985 in an 11 year old child, [23]. An earlier case had been suspected in 1977 in the Soviet Union in a 15 year old child, but could not be confirmed due to the lack of characterisation of the viral strain [21]. The recent case in Scotland has resulted in vaccination recommendations for bat handlers in most western European countries [24-25].
Note that incubation for rabies ( time from the moment virus enters the body until the symptoms appear] can be up to 6 months.


Michał said:
WHO recommends also a lot of vaccines, although there no proof they really work. Where is word "vaccine" there is a fraud. Why rabies should be an exception?
While many vaccines that are being pushed by big pharma are ineffective and very dangerous there are many vaccines that work. Again we cannot throw the baby out with bath water, think of the number of serious diseases that have now been eradicated thanks to the vaccines.
I think the key issue here is which vaccine, how much of it, how often or when, and very importantly in which epidemiological situation to use them- rather then dishing out the blanket statement: "All the vaccines are bad!" OSIT
 

Keit

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FOTCM Member
Michał said:
Yep, none in Poland, although there are actually histeria in Poland over foxes - although nobody seen any rabies, and no one was diseased. Poles suspect it is in order to prevent people from going to forests. Besides, don't you think the 5-30 cases a year is a bit too less for an infectious disease? Have you heard Pastur had to repeat experiment 11 times until two dogs vaccinated were alive and two unvaccinated were dead after injection of brain into a brain of healthy one? And did you hear the that it cannot be transmited by biting, since the viruses aren't present in saliva? And as I say - many clues indicates it isn't an infection disease, but just a kind of old animals disease - not easily transmittable (via injections of sick animals brain).
To be honest, Michał, I don't understand your strong reaction toward this issue. Also a bit confused about what really bothers you. Is it the overvaccination issue of dogs and cats (since that's the main topic of this particular thread), or the topic of rabies in general? Do you think there is some conspiracy going on? Sorry, I just don't understand it.

The fact is, and as was already mentioned by Z, rabies is a very real and very dangerous disease. The fact that there are such strict rules and regulations regarding it, is because this virus is that lethal and that scary. There is NO cure after all. The only hope of preventing the disease from spreading, is injecting the anti-rabies serum immediately after the bite. Even anthrax (the Siberian plague) can be cured, and there are super strict regulations regarding it when it comes to farm animals, and a veterinarian that will dare to cut open the animal suspected of contracting anthrax can even go to jail! That's why there is also a rule (at least in Eastern Europe) that owners that suspect their pets to have rabies absolutely must report about it to the authorities. It's not a conspiracy, and it doesn't mean that the disease isn't real, it just that the ramifications both for the animal and their human can be that dire.

Personally, I would advice that instead of ridiculing the issue, it would be best to educate yourself on the topic first. Starting with reading the material Z mentioned. As for Poland and Polish wildlife, as long as your country has foxes and other wild animals that are considered to be reservoirs for the virus, not having documented cases of rabies doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We also here in Belarus officially don't have many infectious diseases in cattle, but unofficially we do. Mane things, particularly in Eastern European countries don't reach the official papers because it would mean serious repercussions for the entire agricultural sector. The same is with rabies, in order not to create panic. But it also means that perhaps strict regulations do help to a large extend.

One of the most important things to remember when it comes to rabies in wild animals (not dogs), that it manifests itself in abnormal behavior. Not as the aggressive behavior as it can be often be present in dogs. Meaning, that wild animals, like foxes, can appear to be very friendly, as if domesticated. They will roam around in populated areas unafraid, and can even allow to be petted and fed by hand. Sure, there are enough cases of friendly and cute foxes (I love those videos on YT), there was even an experiment done by Russians about domesticated and not-aggressive foxes.

But the rule of thumb when it comes to rabies is, that if a wild animal that is naturally distrustful of humans suddenly starts being all friendly, there is a very high chance of rabies there. Well, considering all the recent Earth Changes craziness, we maybe dealing with another phenomenon here too, but personally I would prefer to remain at the distance when seeing such an animal, just in case.

Anyways, that's what I know when it comes to animals. I have no knowledge of any cases in humans, and hopefully never will.

As for vaccination against rabies, as far as I understand it isn't mandatory in humans, so why such a strong reaction? It isn't even mandatory in animals that never leave the house (at least in Belarus). I know that veterinarians or veterinary students in US for example (don't know how it is in the EU) are forced to be vaccinated, but not everyone else. Yes, this vaccine is super strong and can have a series of serious adverse reactions in animals (don't know about humans), that's why it is recommended to give it separately from other core vaccines. Some animals are damaged for life. But at least for now in most of the countries it's the law and no way around it, unfortunately.

And speaking of something relevant to this topic, just the other day I read an article by Dr. Karen Becker where she talks about changes sought to rabies vaccination laws (in animals) based on scientific research. Right now the US law requires pet revaccination against rabies each 3 years. But apparently, as research indicated (and as natural veterinarians knew all along), titer tests showed that there may not be a need for revaccination after all. That perhaps doing titer tests would be enough to indicate if a booster is required.

Well, as I said, we knew all that already, but now they are looking into changing the law. Which is good news.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Keit said:
As for Poland and Polish wildlife, as long as your country has foxes and other wild animals that are considered to be reservoirs for the virus, not having documented cases of rabies doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
In fact there WERE two documented cases of human rabies in Poland in recent years.

page 5 http://ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications/publications/0906_mer_expert_consultation_on_rabies_post-exposure_prophylaxis.pdf said:
From 2005 to 2007, almost all of the detected rabid animals were foxes, mainly in the east of the country. The two most recent cases of human rabies were reported from northeast Poland (2000)
and southern Poland (2002). Both cases were infected in Poland, and none of them received pre-or post-exposure prophylaxis.
 

Kenny McCormick

Padawan Learner
Keit said:
To be honest, Michał, I don't understand your strong reaction toward this issue. Also a bit confused about what really bothers you. Is it the overvaccination issue of dogs and cats (since that's the main topic of this particular thread), or the topic of rabies in general? Do you think there is some conspiracy going on? Sorry, I just don't understand it.
In fact there have been no evidence a vaccination or serum works - you even provided me with the data, you should have a clue. In my opinion, without those means we would have the same situation. You just prefer to believe everything is correct, although there isn't. What about an open mind...
Keit said:
The fact is, and as was already mentioned by Z, rabies is a very real and very dangerous disease. The fact that there are such strict rules and regulations regarding it, is because this virus is that lethal and that scary.
...instead of pure histeria and fear of ignorance?
 

HiThere

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Michał said:
In fact there have been no evidence a vaccination or serum works - you even provided me with the data, you should have a clue. In my opinion, without those means we would have the same situation. You just prefer to believe everything is correct, although there isn't. What about an open mind...
Yes, how about it? To me you come across as close-minded and seemingly lacking in your ability to consider opposing views.
 

Kenny McCormick

Padawan Learner
Sorry for bothering you on forum, quick question for uncle Google solved the problem. Here is information I looked for, that answers inconsistencies I discovered:

http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/rabies-pasteur-and-the-rabies-vaccine/
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I just saw this in MSM which gave me hope something will be done about this issue and then I realized it is 12 years old article :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3588457.stm
 

Keit

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Z said:
I just saw this in MSM which gave me hope something will be done about this issue and then I realized it is 12 years old article :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3588457.stm
Yeah, I was also happy for a second when saw the following article from NBC news no less, that was just shared by Dr. Karen Becker on her FB page, when realized that it was from 2005.

This is completely jaw dropping. This information has been shared in the mainstream media already 10 years ago, and yet everyone continues with the annual vaccinations racket. And most veterinarians vehemently defend this BS with a straight face.
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Keit said:
Z said:
I just saw this in MSM which gave me hope something will be done about this issue and then I realized it is 12 years old article :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3588457.stm
Yeah, I was also happy for a second when saw the following article from NBC news no less, that was just shared by Dr. Karen Becker on her FB page, when realized that it was from 2005.

This is completely jaw dropping. This information has been shared in the mainstream media already 10 years ago, and yet everyone continues with the annual vaccinations racket. And most veterinarians vehemently defend this BS with a straight face.
I know its old, yet always relevant. So, thanks, its a good reminder to send out to our pet owner friends.
 

luc

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FOTCM Member
Hi all,

I have a question regarding our doggie and vaccinations.

He's now 5 months old and since rabies vaccination is a legal requirement if we want to travel within the EU with the doggie, we are about to get it. After some research and considering the dog's circumstances, this is our current understanding:

- Yearly vaccinations are a total scam, yet initial vaccinations (basic immunization) can make sense, depending on circumstances

- He will get the initial rabies vaccination; it's a legal requirement. Officially, you have to renew it every 3 years, but let's see how we deal with that later on.

- He gets initial immunization against canine distemper; there have been several cases here in the region.

- He gets initial leptospirosis vaccination, there have been cases of raccoons and rats and mice here in the region who had it.


Background: He's a hunting dog and probably will be trained as such and later participate in hunts, plus we live in the forest, so we think it might be a good idea to give him at least these shots. I guess the vet will come up with the usual "everything every year" BS, which we won't do.

So that's the plan for now - what do you think? Are there any traps we should avoid, such as specific products that are harmful and so on? Thanks!
 

Keit

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luc said:
- He gets initial immunization against canine distemper; there have been several cases here in the region.

- He gets initial leptospirosis vaccination, there have been cases of raccoons and rats and mice here in the region who had it.

So that's the plan for now - what do you think? Are there any traps we should avoid, such as specific products that are harmful and so on? Thanks!
If you are going to vaccinate against canine distemper, I would recommend to go ahead and vaccinate against two other lethal and very common infectious canine diseases: parvovirus and adenovirus. If your dog is going to be a hunting dog, than indeed rabies vaccine and against leptospirosis is a must. And you also may consider some good protection against babesiosis (piroplasmosis) and lyme disease. Here are basic recommendations from Dr. Karen Becker on this matter:

The Canine Vaccine Protocol I Recommend

My protocol is to administer a first round of distemper, parvo and adenovirus (no parainfluenza) before 12 weeks of age, usually around 9 to 10 weeks. I give the second round between 15 and 16 weeks. Two weeks after the second round, I titer to insure the dog has been immunized and not just vaccinated. When it comes to rabies, I prefer to give the first vaccine at six months, and then as required by law, a booster one year later and every three years thereafter.
If you do vaccinate your pet, ask your holistic veterinarian to provide a homeopathic vaccine detox such as Thuja (a common choice for all vaccines except rabies).

It's also important to realize that several non-core vaccines are only available in combination with other vaccines, some of which are core. I recommend you check with your vet to insure none of the non-core vaccines are being piggy-backed on core vaccines your pet receives.
It's possible that there are other "least harmful" (if there is such a thing) vaccines out there, but there is for example a brand name "Nobivac" by Merck. If you are going to use this brand, ask for Nobivac DHP (not DHPPi). It's the one with only three diseases, without the Parainfluensa. And then there is the Nobivac RL (which is Rabies + Lepto). But as I said, it is only an example, and maybe there are others. There is information that it is best to inject Rabies vaccine on its own, and without combining it with other vaccines, because it is already nasty enough. There is a separate Lepto vaccine as well.

And don't forget that your pet has to be clinically healthy before vaccination, and you better do the vaccination detox afterwards as advised by Dr. Karen Becker, along with the titer test to check if your dog was actually immunized.

Also, check your local rabies legislation. Some countries require annual rabies re-vaccination, some every three years, and some will be satisfied with a titre. You may not avoid it so easily if your dog is going to be a hunting dog, but maybe you can simply do the titre test. And good luck!

Oh, and make sure that the vaccines, especially rabies vaccine will be given subcutaneously on the right or left rear limb. Not in the withers region, as was done in the past. This area has a poor blood supply, and there is research (albeit mainly in cats) that shows clear connection between vaccination there and development of all kind of abscesses and even tumors.
 

PERLOU

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Merci Keit pour ces rappels précieux...

Thank you Keit for these precious reminders...
 

luc

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Many thanks Keit for these very helpful explanations. I have an appointment with the vet tomorrow, and as far as I understand, it's pretty safe to do the "first round" pretty much as suggested by mainstream medicine. I read somewhere that you shouldn't vaccinate too early (especially rabies), but our doggie is well past this "danger zone". So I'll go ahead and do the standard thing, except that I will refuse any additional vaccinations that are not on your list, Keit. That's pretty much the same approach most "alternative" vets here in Germany have as well.

Thanks again!
 
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