Pretty much everything is possible. There is not much chance that this independence happens IMO.I don't think so ! It is possible ! Come in Savoie and you will see . The international law is to our side
En cette journée solennelle du 27 octobre 2023, au nom du Droit des Peuples à disposer d’eux-mêmes et dans le respect du Droit International, conformément à la Charte de l’ONU et au préambule de la Constitution Française de 1946 (alinéa 18), le Peuple de Savoie, avec son Gouvernement et sous le haut patronage de la Comtesse Catherine de Limburg Stirum et l’appui d’éminentes personnalités dont les ambassadeurs de la Savoie, proclament officiellement ce jour l’indépendance et la souveraineté de la Savoie et du Comté de Nice inclut au Traité d’annexion de 1860.
This passage of their declaration seems very problematic to me. They say themself that 90% of Savoyans people would call them lunatics or something. I don't see anywhere where is their legitimacy to act in the name of the people.On this solemn day of 27 October 2023, in the name of the Right of Peoples to self-determination and in respect of International Law, in accordance with the UN Charter and the Preamble of the French Constitution of 1946 (paragraph 18), the People of Savoy, with its Government and under the high patronage of Countess Catherine de Limburg Stirum and the support of eminent personalities including the Ambassadors of Savoy, officially proclaim today the independence and sovereignty of Savoy and the County of Nice includes the Treaty of Annexation of 1860.
I don't see anywhere where is their legitimacy to act in the name of the people.
Je ne vois nulle part où se trouve leur légitimité pour agir au nom du peuple.
If I understand correctly, your are saying that those "separatists" are more legitimate than the one in power at the moment.Do you see the constitutional legitimacy and the separation of powers in France acting in the name of the people???
Which are the most legitimate, would be the most legitimate question.
Voyez-vous la légitimité constitutionnelle et la séparation des pouvoirs en France agissant au nom du peuple ???
Quels sont les plus légitimes, serait la question la plus légitime.
Yes. Not so much these people in particular. They are trying to restore the state of Savoie by creating a government that is not intended to last as it is, but rather to evolve, lay the foundations, launch hostilities to finally create what has been destroyed and allow citizens to write their constitution and truly participate in the governance of the state. The aim is not for these people to remain in office for decades and then hand over to their buddies, as has always happened in France. They are legitimate in the sense that Savoie remains a French colony and was annexed by France under duress. And if you come here, you will see that the majority of Savoyards want this autonomy, and that it is possible! Already in economic and energy terms, it can be autonomous. The richest region in France after Paris. That's no mean feat! And I think their proposals are heading in the right direction: natural medicines, the euro WHO and NATO out, compulsory vaccinations out, privatised water stopped =exit evian, PEACE, property restored to Savoyards (today, and for decades, the English, Dutch, Qatar and Arab emirs and other Swiss millionaires have been buying up all the land, creating a shortage of housing and making it impossible for residents to buy because prices are so high...)... in short, a lot of good things, in my opinion, that France does not want to implement.If I understand correctly, your are saying that those "separatists" are more legitimate than the one in power at the moment.
Fair point.
Si l'on va par là, en dehors de l'Île de France, à peu près tout le reste de la métropole est une colonie.In any case, separatists NO, because Savoie is not and has never been French!
En tous les cas, séparatistes NON, car la Savoie n'est pas et n'a jamais été Française !
Ok with this but the savoy history is the last one and à precise case where it is à millenary state ! Not comparable with Bretagne ou corse !Si l'on va par là, en dehors de l'Île de France, à peu près tout le reste de la métropole est une colonie.
Et pour mémoire les Francs (tribu germanique) était des envahisseurs...
Avant de devenir le royaume Franc (Frank Reich) c'était la (les) Gaule(s).
Et les Celtes eux-mêmes étaient des envahisseurs...
Il ne reste plus guère de descendants de leurs prédécesseurs (indigènes, ou pas ?) pré-indoeuropéens, à part peut-être les Basques.
Bref, l'Histoire n'est qu'une longue suite de migrations, invasions, colonisations, guerres, massacres, épurations ethniques, déportations, mise en esclavage, etc. Et ça continue de nos jours...
(Il y a quelques temps, j'ai lu : « Le Jugement dernier a déjà eu lieu. Ici c'est l'Enfer ! ».
Ça m'a semblé tristement pertpertinent
First bold part: again, the guy in the interview says otherwise.Yes. Not so much these people in particular. They are trying to restore the state of Savoie by creating a government that is not intended to last as it is, but rather to evolve, lay the foundations, launch hostilities to finally create what has been destroyed and allow citizens to write their constitution and truly participate in the governance of the state. The aim is not for these people to remain in office for decades and then hand over to their buddies, as has always happened in France. They are legitimate in the sense that Savoie remains a French colony and was annexed by France under duress. And if you come here, you will see that the majority of Savoyards want this autonomy, and that it is possible! Already in economic and energy terms, it can be autonomous. The richest region in France after Paris. That's no mean feat! And I think their proposals are heading in the right direction: natural medicines, the euro WHO and NATO out, compulsory vaccinations out, privatised water stopped =exit evian, PEACE, property restored to Savoyards (today, and for decades, the English, Dutch, Qatar and Arab emirs and other Swiss millionaires have been buying up all the land, creating a shortage of housing and making it impossible for residents to buy because prices are so high...)... in short, a lot of good things, in my opinion, that France does not want to implement.
And I do think that this is where things are going to get stuck, and that getting out of this annexation without a fight will be difficult... in every sense of the word. In any case, separatists NO, because Savoie is not and has never been French!
Personally I need some good arguments to support any cause.Pourquoi tant de pessimisme ?! Soutenez nous !
What more is there to say, even though the argument that the French State failed to notify the UN Secretariat General of the 1860 Treaty of Annexation, although definitively emptied of all legal relevance, is likely to continue to enjoy a strange popularity, to the great displeasure of judges weary of having to point out tirelessly that it is ineffective, in the ranks of pro-independence activists from Savoie and Nice who are fascinated by the vaguely casuistic appearance in reality of its biased wording?
Bruno BERTHIER, Maître de Conférences, Faculté de Droit, Université SAVOIE MONT BLANC
Mmhhh... ok I hear those arguments. So the people from Savoie involved (there are also legal specialists) are mistaken? I dare to hope that they have found a loophole that they will soon expose. Otherwise it's a waste of energy.First bold part: again, the guy in the interview says otherwise.
The other bold part: That's a big point. How do you envision a fight?
Personally I need some good arguments to support any cause.
For the little information I have it seems to me that we have here a bunch of people who want more freedom. That's the good point, what can probably resonate with most people here.
But then, what do we have here? A juridic argument. Does it hold some water? I'm really not sure. I find this: link and link
Un des principaux programmes du FEM et du NOM est de détruire les nations et leurs particularités culturelles.Pourquoi tant de pessimisme ?! Soutenez nous !
Contrairement aux divisions, je pense que cette démarche instiguerait plutôt le début d'une volonté et possibilité de fédérer les régions, comme en suisse. Et qui ne rêve pas de profondes réformes qui iraient dans le sens du peuple ? Ce n'est pas une flatterie de l'ego et un conservationnisme régional d'exploiter la possibilité de se séparer de l'état qui ne fait rien pour vous. Et je parle de nous, de tous les français ! Et ils ne parlent pas de concurrence mais bien d'entre aides mutuelles.Un des principaux programmes du FEM et du NOM est de détruire les nations et leurs particularités culturelles.
La sécession des Savoies de la France en serait un bon exemple.
Mais pour quoi faire, si ce n'est d'apporter encore plus de divisions, plutôt que des libertés supplémentaires et au profit de qui ?
D'autre part les Savoyards se mettront-ils à parler un patois qui n'existe plus du tout, puisqu'ils seraient si différents des Français ?
De là à recréer de tous les petits Etats, en concurrence les uns des autres, quel intérêt, à part flatter son ego et renforcer son sentiment d'appartenance à une communauté ?
Franchement c'est le genre de combat qui me semble aussi vain qu'inutile.
Par contre qu'il y ait une véritable autonomie des Régions serait préférable...
L’un des principaux objectifs du WEF et du NWO est de détruire les nations et leurs particularités culturelles.
La sécession des Savoies de la France en serait un bon exemple.
Mais à quoi bon, sinon apporter encore plus de divisions, plutôt que des libertés supplémentaires, et au profit de qui ?
A l'inverse, les Savoyards se mettraient-ils à parler une langue qui n'existe plus du tout, tant ils seraient différents des Français ?
Mais à quoi bon recréer des États minuscules en compétition les uns avec les autres, à part flatter son ego et renforcer son sentiment d'appartenance à une communauté ?
Franchement, c’est le genre de combat qui me semble aussi inutile que futile.
Une véritable autonomie régionale serait plutôt une démarche judicieuse...