Vegetarianism?

[sinimat]

Scio,

Yeah, it is mind blowing ideas and, again, I believe you are exactly describing the theory of quantum physics. Right on.

Domivr,

True, and I actually did mean increased awareness or perception when I said higher.

Yeah, poor little carrots :) But they sure are tasty.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Yeah, poor little carrots :) But they sure are tasty.

When you said that I couldn't help but think of this too:

"Yeah, poor little humans :) But they sure are tasty."

Hey do you think there's a group of truth-seeking carrots who are aware of our existance (and those damn rabbits!) and are trying to wake all the other carrots up? Of course all the other carrots think they're crazy, and this lil group of carrots communicates with a group of good humans who tell them all about the STS rabbits that carrots cannot see because they're in a different density, but they're still there. Of course carrots have little evidence to support this idea, but there's enough to suggest that it's a probability based on the constant and unexplained disappearance of their carrot friends among other things. Sadly, the majority of carrots are too busy enjoying themselves as they bask in the sun, drink water and absorb minerals, and so they laugh at the few carrots who think rabbits exist. Oh more than that, that crazy group even thinks beings above rabbits called "humans" exist who sometimes eat rabbits! Hahaha don't they realise that carrots are on top of the food chain? Come on, nobody can eat living things, because the only possible way life exists is by using the energy of the sun, water, and minerals. Life cannot possibly sustain itself by eating other life.. what preposterous nonsense is that? All carrots observe about life is that it uses the sun, water, and minerals - that's how life works, right?

And do you think there's also a group of humans who contacts carrots and tells them all about love and light and how carrots are special and loved? And do you think they tell carrots that soon the loving rabbits will come to take them away to heaven because they love them so much? Do you think the carrots buy that and sit there trying to meditate all day and do carrot rituals like giving off more carrot smell to attract the loving rabbits from "heaven"?

Of course, then the group of good humans informs carrots that there are many carrots who are grown artificially in secret underground locations in vat-like conditions. The group of humans then tells the carrots that soon 94% of them will be replaced by those artificially grown carrots that better suit the desires of the STS humans who secretly and covertly control the carrot world already. Of course this sounds truly unbelievable, but the truth-seeking carrots must never discard any data without evidence, so they too take this to consideration even if they have no way to verify and it does sound insane.

And of course the love and light carrots tell the previous group and everyone else that there are really carrots in other "secret places" who are their friends, and soon they will all meet their friends and all the carrots will hold hands and live together in peace and harmony. Why? Because the rabbits and the humans love them so much and want them to.. out of love!

In fact, some of the carrots are given visions of something called "human books" with titles like "How to serve carrots" and children's books like "Carrots and other vegetables are good!". Although these visions come from higher realms so carrots cannot really make much sense of it all, but the general message seems to be of how much carrots are loved at higher realms! Yay!!

Hmmmmmm... :)

 

[Tigersoap]

:D

 

[sinimat]

Scio,
Very nice story, I enjoyed it :)

I found this quote from the Sri Isopanisad (a Vedic text) regarding a vegetarian diet that I thought you might appreciate. The first verse is as follows:

Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.

Some of the purport regarding this verse by Srila Prabhupada (founder of the Hare Krishna sect in the West, who is a truthful teacher, but the Hare Krishna religion is corrupt) is as follows:

Human beings are not meant to quarrel like cats and dogs. They must be intelligent enough to realize the importance and aim of human life. The Vedic literature is meant for humanity and not for cats and dogs. Cats and dogs can kill other animals for food without incurring sin, but if a man kills an animal for the satisfaction of his uncontrolled taste buds, he is responsible for breaking the laws of nature. Consequently he must be punished.
The standard of life for human beings cannot be applied to animals. The tiger does not eat rice and wheat or drink cow's milk, because he has been given food in the shape of animal flesh. Among the many animals and birds, some are vegetarian and others are carnivorous, but none of them transgress the laws of nature, which have been ordained by the will of the Lord. Animals, birds, reptiles and other lower life forms strictly adhere to the laws of nature; therefore there is no question of sin for them, nor are the Vedic instructions meant for them. Human life alone is a life of responsibility.

It is wrong, however, to think that simply by becoming a vegetarian one can avoid transgressing the laws of nature. Vegetables also have life, and while it is nature's law that one living being is meant to feed on another, for human beings the point is to recognize the Supreme Lord. Thus one should not be proud of being a strict vegetarian. Animals do not have developed consciousness by which to recognize the Lord, but a human being is sufficiently intelligent to take lessons from the Vedic literature and thereby know how the laws of nature are working and derive profit out of such knowledge. If a man neglects the instructions of the Vedic literature, his life becomes very risky. A human being is therefore required to recognize the authority of the Supreme Lord and become His devotee. He must offer everything for the Lord's service and partake only of the remnants of food offered to the Lord. This will enable him to discharge his duty properly. In the Bhagavad-g?t? (9.26) the Lord directly states that He accepts vegetarian food from the hands of a pure devotee. Therefore a human being should not only become a strict vegetarian but should also become a devotee of the Lord, offer the Lord all his food and then partake of such pras?dam, or the mercy of God. Only those who act in this way can properly discharge the duties of human life. Those who do not offer their food to the Lord eat nothing but sin and subject themselves to various types of distress, which are the results of sin (Bg. 3.13).

The root of sin is deliberate disobedience of the laws of nature through disregarding the proprietorship of the Lord. Disobeying the laws of nature or the order of the Lord brings ruin to a human being. Conversely, one who is sober, who knows the laws of nature, and who is not influenced by unnecessary attachment or aversion is sure to be recognized by the Lord and thus become eligible to go back to Godhead, back to the eternal home.


It's very interesting, as this perspective shares both of our views, I believe.

However, I have a question for you. If we are STS beings, how do we become more STO oriented? What sort of service should one do? I know that by doing "good" works, only sustains the duality of 3rd density. So, how can we learn to serve?

Namaste

 

[anart]

SAO, that's great ... LOL

(Lord Oh Lord, that's funny ~wink to EsoQuest~)

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.

Ok that's an interesting quote. Who's this Lord guy and who says he owns or controls anything? On the other hand, if by Lord he means God and by God he means ALL THAT EXISTS, then sure God owns everything cuz he IS everything, but that does not logically lead into othe next part. Next part being dependant on everyone's inexplicable collective understanding of what is "necessary" and what is not. But what is "necessary"? Is it necessary for us to eat, breathe, walk, buy stuff, live? I don't think so, I think we do that because we want to, or because we may have certain goals even if those goals are to serve others - it is not necessary, it is a personal choice.

Nothing belongs to anyone. All things belong to God if God is all things. Therefore, if anyone owns anything, it is not taken away from the Lord - but it might be taken away from someone else! So it's not God that I'd be worried about hurting, it's another person, osit.

Some of the purport regarding this verse by Srila Prabhupada (founder of the Hare Krishna sect in the West, who is a truthful teacher, but the Hare Krishna religion is corrupt) is as follows:

Human beings are not meant to quarrel like cats and dogs. They must be intelligent enough to realize the importance and aim of human life.

Ah who's he kidding! "Not meant to"? Again, who sits up there deciding what someone is or is not meant to do or be? Could it be that Lord guy again? And there's no "must", some are, some aren't.

The Vedic literature is meant for humanity and not for cats and dogs. Cats and dogs can kill other animals for food without incurring sin, but if a man kills an animal for the satisfaction of his uncontrolled taste buds, he is responsible for breaking the laws of nature. Consequently he must be punished.

I'm confused though - is he proposing that we do not eat? Well if so, my answer to him would be, "k, you first buddy!". If he is talking about senseless or excessive killing, like maybe hunting more for sport/pleasure than for food, then I agree.

The standard of life for human beings cannot be applied to animals. The tiger does not eat rice and wheat or drink cow's milk, because he has been given food in the shape of animal flesh.

And humans have been given food in the shape of animal flesh, AND in the shape of plant flesh. We have more of a choice, that's all. Besides, animals like dogs can eat both as well, and do. It doesn't have to be carnivore OR herbivore!

Among the many animals and birds, some are vegetarian and others are carnivorous, but none of them transgress the laws of nature, which have been ordained by the will of the Lord. Animals, birds, reptiles and other lower life forms strictly adhere to the laws of nature; therefore there is no question of sin for them, nor are the Vedic instructions meant for them. Human life alone is a life of responsibility.

Again though, monkeys eat both, ants AND bananas when they feel like it (among other things). Humans can too, and do. Who says what is proper to eat and what is not and why?

Vegetables also have life, and while it is nature's law that one living being is meant to feed on another, for human beings the point is to recognize the Supreme Lord.
If a man neglects the instructions of the Vedic literature, his life becomes very risky. A human being is therefore required to recognize the authority of the Supreme Lord and become His devotee. He must offer everything for the Lord's service and partake only of the remnants of food offered to the Lord. This will enable him to discharge his duty properly. In the Bhagavad-g?t? (9.26) the Lord directly states that He accepts vegetarian food from the hands of a pure devotee. Therefore a human being should not only become a strict vegetarian but should also become a devotee of the Lord, offer the Lord all his food and then partake of such pras?dam, or the mercy of God.

Either this is some religious mumbo jumbo talking about some self-proclaimed "God", or maybe this is something esoteric that is using religious analogies to portray something else entirely, like the Bible often does. I'm not sure at the moment, but if it's the latter, I don't get it. Anyone SEE something I don't? I see the conclusion that humans should be vegetarian, but I don't understand the reason. I mean it's basically "because God says so" - but that would make it religious nonsense. Is that all this is?

The root of sin is deliberate disobedience of the laws of nature through disregarding the proprietorship of the Lord.

The C's say that Free Will is the most important "law" of existance. So again, when he says "sin" and "God", does he mean that in silly religious way, or something more objective that is disguised in religious rhetoric? We gotta consider the intended audience or audiences. Maybe the message was meant to say one thing to one type of audience, but something else to another type. One possibly interpretation I could think of for this is he's talking about sin as being STS, the laws of nature being objective reality. "Proprietorship of the lord" may be another way of saying "free will". Dunno.

Disobeying the laws of nature or the order of the Lord brings ruin to a human being.

Is this another way of saying "There is no free lunch in the universe, those who think there is are lunch"?

Conversely, one who is sober, who knows the laws of nature, and who is not influenced by unnecessary attachment or aversion is sure to be recognized by the Lord and thus become eligible to go back to Godhead, back to the eternal home.

Religious nonsense or another way of saying "One who is conscious, who SEES objective reality, and is not influenced by attachments and wishful thinking and sacred cows is sure to be acknowledge by the universe and is on his/her way to advancing to higher awareness, and timeless existance". Dunno.

It's very interesting, as this perspective shares both of our views, I believe.

Actually im not sure what it's saying. It says we should all be vegetarian because the Lord says so. Is this anothe way of saying that violating the free will of plants counts less than violating free will of animals?! I dunno, and if that is what he's saying, I also don't know how true or false this statement is.

Another interesting thing to consider - cannibalism. Is this worse than eating animals? And I don't mean in some socio-cultural subjective sense, I mean objectively. Does it count karmically as conscious murder, or counts as just another meal? Even more interesting, what if a human who is 3rd density manages to kill a lizzie who is 4th (but let's say was visiting 3rd), and actually cooks and eats the lizzie? This is not unlike a wolf killing a human and eating him - a lower density being eating a higher one. Happens on earth all the time with humans and animals. So what to make of the lizzie-eating scenario or human eating another human?

Sure it's very rare, but it happens! Socially considered "bad" and "wrong", but this is the same society that freely allows and supports war and genocide, censors nudity but allows bloody violence and gore among other things - so I wouldn't necessarily take our pathocratic society's advice on what's right or wrong either. Cannibalism is not necessary and there are alternatives (like eating plants and animals), true, but neither is it necessary to eat anything. So if eat, does it matter what? If so, why? Is killing something that has more awareness "worse" than something that has less in any objective way?

Maybe if we can find a reason why cannibalism is worse than eating animals, a similar reason can be applied to eating animals over plants, etc? I don't know, just something to think about. And no I'm not supporting cannibalism in any way, I'm simply bringing the concept up as food for thought in terms of how that relates, if at all, to eating animals vs eating plants.

However, I have a question for you. If we are STS beings, how do we become more STO oriented?

Probably by giving more, taking less.

What sort of service should one do?

In my experience and understanding, anytime you give or add to one part of a person, you detract from another part. So you must decide which parts you wish to contribute to and why. If you give something to someone when they're not asking you to, although you are giving the something, you're depriving them of free will in the process. Sometimes a person can ask you to give them a gun so they can shoot themselves. If you comply, you service the part of them that just asked you for the gun, but you reject the part of him that may have wanted to live but at that exact moment may have been overpowered by the immediate desire to die. 10 seconds later the part that wants to live may very well be given voice and so the person would appear to "change his mind".

However, if you refuse, you then deny the person and do NOT give them what ONE part of them asks for, in order to preserve the free will of another part that may be asking you to NOT give them the gun, but is unable to speak at the moment. Oh and speaking of which, you would have to learn to discern what part of the person is doing the asking and why, and whether simply verbalizing something means asking, or maybe sometimes a person may be saying one thing but truly asking for the something else or maybe even the total opposite?

And trying to SEE what someone wants and at what level, and trying to decide what someone NEEDS are 2 different things imho. The latter deprives person of free will. The former seeks to better serve his true will. Of course this is not easy, and you can and will make mistakes in your observations along the way as do we all, but all there is is lessons. Also, once you discern that the same person can want 100 different things on 100 different levels, how do you decide which level you wish to service and why? Do you help someone kill themselves if they seem to sincerely desire this, ever? Do you help someone gain knowledge that you know they will use to control others, if this is what they truly want?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that whenever you interact with someone, you only serve one part of them, and always end up going against another part (assuming they have more than 1 part to them, and humans on earth usually do). The devil is in the details, and WHAT you wish to give to others and why is upto you. Any sort of giving can be called "service to others" if you want to call it that, but the devil is in the details - just which part are you servicing and why? I guess this potential subjectivity of the term is why so many people can be so selfish but think the opposite of themselves, because it's so easy to rationalize any and ALL forms of "giving" as "service to others" and "goodness" even if you're taking something like free will or objectivity away in the process. I guess if you do not consider free will or objectivity important, then of course giving them to someone would be bad and depriving someone of them could be good...

I know that by doing "good" works, only sustains the duality of 3rd density. So, how can we learn to serve?

I don't know what you meant by this statement. Could you rephrase that somehow? It's possible that one of our 3rd density lessons is to stop judging anything as good or bad and look at objective reality instead of our own subjective perspective. Maybe that is one thing we must do before we can move on.

Maybe that's what the guy you quoted was talking about when he was speaking of propriotership of the Lord and violating/ignoring laws of nature?

Just some thoughts. Then again, I could be wrong. I often am! :)

 

[highmystica]

Laughs - I like this post ...

scio ...
And do you think there's also a group of humans who contacts carrots and tells them all about love and light and how carrots are special and loved? And do you think they tell carrots that soon the loving rabbits will come to take them away to heaven because they love them so much? Do you think the carrots buy that and sit there trying to meditate all day and do carrot rituals like giving off more carrot smell to attract the loving rabbits from "heaven"?
hey yo don't forget those humans that play music for plants ...
so funny - all of this. In all seriousness I recognize that we as humans must eat a bit of everything - there are a few protiens that we need, and cannot synthesize on our own ... and that require us to eat meat. With my blood type (which is "o") and my metabolism I have never weighed more than 156 lbs, because of that I eat a lot of heavy food, even though I would prefer the other, but a strick veggie diet only made me lose weight and become a super charged insomniac ... and I can't possibly risk losing more weight and the insomniac thing just sucks - there is nothing to do at three in the morning - lol

 

[sinimat]

Scio,

I appreciate your thoughts, as always.

The author of that quote I posted definately has hidden meanings in his writings. Imho, he is basically saying that everything belongs to God and everything we do in an STS state ignores that. His basic teachings involve becoming an STO by serving God. So, he teaches to offer vegetarian food to God before you eat it, because, after all, it belongs to God. Then after doing so, you can eat it. He says vegetarian food because that is what the ancient Vedic scriptures instruct. He also is pointing out the difference between and STS and an STO, as an STS is simply blinded by the need to consume things, especially food. I think the overall goal is to get people to think more like an STO, putting your individual needs secondary behind God's. Again, I think this post was relevant because he is saying that by me being a strict vegetarian is no different than you eating meat. We are both consuming in an STS manner. However, when one offers his food first to God, then that is a completely different mindset, as one is thinking of serving God before servings one's self. Does that make sense?

Thanks for your thoughts on serving. You ideas support my thoughts and let me explain. Let me discuss what I said "I know that by doing "good" works, only sustains the duality of 3rd density," through an example. If someone on the street, say a homeless person, asks for money, part of me wants to help, give them some money and do a "good" thing. However, part of me feels that by doing so, I am only helping them in a physical sense, in 3rd density, and not truely helping them spiritually. I am not helping them to evolve into a 4th density STO being because I am supporting their desire to get something and also supporting their thoughts of desparation, thus negating the fact that they can change their own destiny. It's a complicated subject, in my eyes as to how we can serve others. Right now, I'm feeling that the best way to serve others is to simply let them be. Not to influence my will onto them and to allow them to go through what they need to, and to accept them for who they are- an infinite expression of the God Force on a unique path. This supports your ideas of exerting your will on others. I was working with the concept of extending love to everyone, but I'm not sure about that now. I've read hear a few times not to do things like that if beings don't ask for it. Maybe by letting them be, without intruding, you are actually loving them. More to chew on.

Namaste

 

[Ben]

I didn't think a thread on THIS forum would stick to the topic of dietary habits for very long! :D

 

[Guest]

That carrot universe is pretty vivid. I hear they gather in groups worshipping a fabled carrot, diced and stir-fried to redeem the vegetable patch singing praises to the Supreme Gardner. Faithful carrots await the day when the Supreme Gardner will come from above with a big basket and carry the choicest of them past the pearly gates of the Gardner's House to the sacred kitchen where they will be clothed in spices, and join their saviour at the right side of the dinner plate.

The author of that quote I posted definately has hidden meanings in his writings. Imho, he is basically saying that everything belongs to God and everything we do in an STS state ignores that. His basic teachings involve becoming an STO by serving God....I think the overall goal is to get people to think more like an STO, putting your individual needs secondary behind God's. Again, I think this post was relevant because he is saying that by me being a strict vegetarian is no different than you eating meat. We are both consuming in an STS manner. However, when one offers his food first to God, then that is a completely different mindset, as one is thinking of serving God before servings one's self. Does that make sense?

It depends on who and what God is. If God is the Lord, and owner of all, then it is up to this being whether you live or die, and up to this being if you get any food at all actually. So by tipping your hat to the master before a meal, you stay in His good graces and insure that more food gets put on the table.

I think this is why many people pray before a meal: "Thanks Master and keep it comin'". So in that sense it's an acknowlegdment of who'se boss.

If this God, however, is Brahman, the Absolute, then we, and the food are of that same Absolute, and in that context there is only God flowing into God. So by remembering that aside from the reality of consumption, there is also the reality that transcends it, we align the whole dynamic of eating with that truth, and decrease the suffering inherent in our sustenance (or so it is said).

Aside from bowing to the Lord, or affirming abstract existence to mitigate the effects of concrete reality, that the practice of dedication is actually the cultivation of a state of gratitude for the sustenance of one's life, and acknowledgment that suffering was involved to do it. In that way, we remember all that goes into our eating, and eat because we must without feeling guilty for what all animals do on this planet, because that is a condition for being here.

In this way, I think, we eat consciously and so do not fall prey to gluttony that has nothing to do with maintaining health. If you eat right, and the food is natural and in accordance to your metabolism, the physical satisfaction from eating stems from the body's gratitude at being sustained according to its nature instead of through artificial flavourings and substance that disrupt the body's well-being.

That way one eats less, feels best, thinks clearest, and has the energy to make use of one's life. And by remembering the value of the food, and that for life to exist on this planet, life has to be taken (except in the case of fruits- including vegetable fruits like cucumbers, olives/olive oil and tomatoes- and honey) one can be inspired to put that energy provided by eating to good use, and in accordance to one's capacity. Drinking lots of clean water keeps the body balanced so digestion is more effecient and one need not eat more than necessary.

The links below are well worth checking out, and reveal some research of what consititutes healthy eating, and the healthiest societies in the world (which are also for the most part the most primitive).

http://www.mercola.com/article/carbohydrates/paleolithic_diet.htm

http://www.mercola.com/article/carbohydrates/paleolithic_diet2.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/21/weston_price.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/28/weston_price2.htm

Rather than being true to our natural STS roots, we are distorted STS, completely out of wack with the natural STS structure of the world. To the lower densities we are like a disease, reproducing uncontrollably, poisoning ourselves and the environment, enslaving whole species, and destroying everything in our path.

I think that at this point as a species we make the Lizzies look like saints. I don't see any species in 2D that reflects us like we reflect the Lizzies. I also think we need to get a bit of perspective on our STS nature and move to balance it more in accordance to its lower denisty origins before we can hope to move on. After all, it's our foundation, and it's probably not easy to carry ourselves into a worthwhile 4D experience on a rotten foundation. In my view, that's the best way to actually apply our gratitude for the bounty of the nature we descrate by being "civilized" as a species in the manner that we are.

If someone on the street, say a homeless person, asks for money, part of me wants to help, give them some money and do a "good" thing. However, part of me feels that by doing so, I am only helping them in a physical sense, in 3rd density, and not truely helping them spiritually. I am not helping them to evolve into a 4th density STO being because I am supporting their desire to get something and also supporting their thoughts of desparation, thus negating the fact that they can change their own destiny.

Yes, but you are also performing an act of compassion. To refrain from helping releave suffering when you can is to refrain from applying compassion. If I was starving, I would welcome the assistence, which may put me in a position to help others in the future. If more of us felt and acted upon compassion, more others would experience gratitude and in turn be open to help others. Maybe if enough people helped enough people things could improve in this world. You really can't do much when your survival is compromized.

All I know is that if some fool smiles at me, and tells me I'm just a part of God on some path while I and my family are dying of hunger, and then claims they are loving me with this attitude, I will be tempted to think they are just a self-righteous, cold-hearted person feeling important at my expense, and that's on a good day. They might as well be stabbing me in the heart, while they smile and tell me they love me, and respect my freedom to die a miserable death after I watch my family suffer.

I know we can't help all the people suffering on the planet, but at least lets have the decency to not pat ourselves on the back for not doing so.

 

[sinimat]

EsoQuest,

I appreciate your thoughts on the issue of eating, especially the part about being conscious and thankful about where your food comes from.

Regarding my discussion of helping other, I am theoretically talking about these issues. I for one like to help people, and when someone asks me for help, I often help them. But, I am just wondering if I am really helping them or not.

 

[Guest]

No sweat.

And regarding helping people: I think you are helping people when you assist in alleviating suffering, when you can of course, and when you are not being manipulated into doing so. I think you are helping because, as they say, its the thought that counts, and applied compassion is far more effective than theoretical compassion. I am not saying to project love to them, but to empathize and move as the situation dictates. People need not ask for help verbally, but you can sense I think when help is appropriate, and when your assistence can conduct energy and not be based on guilt or sentimentality.

All empathy is helpful, but sometimes events point to helping in a way that lets us know that the little we give can carry a vibration to those we help. So what I am talking about is mindful assistence, in the same way one is mindful about eating. This ties the act to the vibration, and transforms the helping into something more than a temporary reprieve from physical suffering.

I realize that most of the time, we cannot help, even if we wished we could, and in those cases following our path is all the help we can give, not only because it can take us to a point of usefulness to the human condition at all levels, but because it also sets up a vibration of redemption in the collective field of awareness.

Sometimes, however, we find ourselves in a position where we can help, and circumstances themselves ask us to do so if people directly don't. In such cases, the vibration of helping can be of more assistence than the act, although I am sure that would be appreciated as well. And sometimes help comes from saying the right word, or doing something seemingly minor. It's all about applied empathy, and you can sense when the transfer is more or less pure and not wasted on a manipulator or due to some inner righteous impulse.

 

[sinimat]

EsoQuest,

Again, thanks for your insight. This makes sense- to be mindful of your actions, whether eathing or helping those in need. Like you said, the physical act might not help out that much, but one's consciousness and vibration, the transfer of energy between yourself and another person, is what can really help.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

So, he teaches to offer vegetarian food to God before you eat it, because, after all, it belongs to God.

Ok but I think it's important to understand that if God is everything, then being STS also serves God because you are God too. And I don't think anything "belongs" to God as much as it simply is God (property, which implies possession/control, is a purely STS concept/dynamic, osit). And both, STS and STO are serving God, but each in their own way. STS just serves the God that is self, which is just as legitimate as STO which serves that God that is all. Bottom line being, anything you do serves God in one way or another! And besides, it is possible that without STS there would be no STO and vice versa - so both polarities may be essential to existance, so in that sense, STS is really unintentionally serving the entirety of the universe just by existing and being STS. And of course on the micro level at our world, STS can unintentionally serve us the same way Vincent Bridges unintentionally served Laura - provide crucial lessons. We need these tyrants and psychopaths because we need to understand this part of God if we're to see objective reality, and the only way to do that is by experiencing it. Most people are ignoring it, and thus the need for psychopaths to remain. When EVERYONE knows about them and understands their true nature very well, then they most likely won't be around anymore because the planet will have collectively learned and moved on. On the other hand, the understanding may prompt everyone to go "hey this is a great idea!" and then everyone will go psycho and so STO candidates will have to tippy-toe their way off the planet asap lol.

Then after doing so, you can eat it.

This concept of offering the food to God before you eat it reminds me of dinner prayer. I wonder if it's related?

He says vegetarian food because that is what the ancient Vedic scriptures instruct.

Sounds dogmatic!

He also is pointing out the difference between and STS and an STO, as an STS is simply blinded by the need to consume things, especially food. I think the overall goal is to get people to think more like an STO, putting your individual needs secondary behind God's.

It's not STO to try to get others to be STO or anything for that matter! But I think maybe he's not so much trying to get'em to change, but maybe explicating the nature of STO and STS in kinda religious language so that someone reads it, learns, and then he can choose STO once he has a better idea of what it truly is? Maybe :o

Again, I think this post was relevant because he is saying that by me being a strict vegetarian is no different than you eating meat. We are both consuming in an STS manner. However, when one offers his food first to God, then that is a completely different mindset, as one is thinking of serving God before servings one's self. Does that make sense?

But you're not really offering your food to God or anyone if you're still eating it. If I have a car and every time before I drove it I offered it to you but never actually let you touch it or drive it, does that count? Would you feel like you got something from me or that I gave something up? What changed?

I think it's what we do that matters. I think mindset helps, but without actually acting to change your actions to less STS and more STO, it is utterly useless. So in that sense I think if you do all the same things you always do but "offer them to God" before you do it from now on, you change absolutely nothing, and it would be a delusion if you thought you did, just as religious people think confessing their sins to the guy in church helps them escape responsibility for their actions, which it doesn't. And when I say "you" I don't mean you or anyone in particular, just anyone.

I am not helping them to evolve into a 4th density STO being because I am supporting their desire to get something and also supporting their thoughts of desparation, thus negating the fact that they can change their own destiny.

I think a lot may depend on him. But yes, if you give someone something for nothing, generally you're supporting the idea of free lunch and their dependance on others to take care of them so they don't have to be responsible for themselves, osit. But there are exceptions, the devil being in the details as it depends on the context, on the individual in question, etc.

Right now, I'm feeling that the best way to serve others is to simply let them be.

I agree, free will is probably the most important part. But it's only one part of STO, osit.

This supports your ideas of exerting your will on others. I was working with the concept of extending love to everyone, but I'm not sure about that now. I've read hear a few times not to do things like that if beings don't ask for it. Maybe by letting them be, without intruding, you are actually loving them. More to chew on.

Well I'd ask myself why I'd "extend love" to anyone? What is the purpose, what is it meant to achieve and why? How does it help them and how does it hurt them? What part of the benefits, which part suffers, how and why? But also ask why not? Can you think of a reason not to "extend love"? I personally find it very helpful to ask both, why, and why not, to help understand the consequences of my action and inaction.

And I appreciate your thoughts as well!

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Yes, but you are also performing an act of compassion. To refrain from helping releave suffering when you can is to refrain from applying compassion. If I was starving, I would welcome the assistence, which may put me in a position to help others in the future.

That's assuming that is what you will do! What if you use the help to get some beer and a hooker, and then go back to beg for more? Now, I'm not judging you for it, but I if I knew that this is what you plan to do, I'd probably not help simply because I think my energy can be spent better helping those who in turn will help others and who at least have the desire and will to help themselves after I help them, etc. I guess it's the reason the C's say "we won't walk you by the hand" - so in a sense, constantly giving someone money who simply doesn't WANT to spend any effort to try to earn some himself, is creating a dependance on others as "caretakers", osit. So I think it's a delicate situation, each case is different, but I'm just saying that sometimes by being "compassionate" you can end up supporting STS, laziness, and dependance on free lunch and charity from others, osit. So while the homless can be called "less fortunate" - sometimes fortune (or lack thereof) may not be the culprit.

You really can't do much when your survival is compromized.

True, but sometimes it can also be due to the way you lead your life, not because life throws a bad hand at you. It's very difficult to tell with homeless, you just don't know who's who - and sometimes all is not as it appears as well. Sometimes homeless people make a decent living and put on a great act this way. But I agree that in some circumstances such help would be very beneficial, it just depends on many things.

All I know is that if some fool smiles at me, and tells me I'm just a part of God on some path while I and my family are dying of hunger, and then claims they are loving me with this attitude, I will be tempted to think they are just a self-righteous, cold-hearted person feeling important at my expense, and that's on a good day.

It can be, but what sort of help would you be looking for? Do you want a handout to get you back on your feet, or do you want handouts to be your feet? Some people are the latter from my experience. Not all who ask for help and look like they need help, really are asking and really do need it, osit. Psychopaths are just one example. But many don't have to be psychopaths to use their apparent financial desperation to get free lunch - even if all they really want is free lunch, and don't ever wish to learn to cook at all. But then, how can you tell with someone you don't know? And if you don't know, what do you do? Do you unknowingly throw money at them, or do you withhold it just as unknowingly? I don't know. All thoughts welcome.