Violence at Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia

Not sure if any of you are familiar with Tim Pool - he's an independent journalist who gained somewhat of a following when Occupy Wall Street started, covering the different events around the country through livestream. Since then he's sort of backed away from a lot of the radical lefties who were in OWS (side note: I was also there on a few occasions, more as an observer than anything, during my undergrad years). He's also been calling out the left on their use of violence, their focus on identity politics, on how 'political correctness' is shutting down discourse, and so on. He still travels around the world and covers different protests of various political beliefs. I read his Facebook status updates often, which tend to be quite rational and balanced. But when I read the comment sections I constantly see people on the left calling him a traitor, telling him that he sold out, that he "changed" since OWS, that he's not a real journalist anymore, an apologist for conservatives and white supremacists, for Trump, etc. etc. even though Tim calls the radical right out as well regarding their views and violence. It's interesting to observe how quickly people with radical ideologies of any kind will turn on someone when that person begins to point out flaws on their side of the fence.

Anyway, with that backstory, Tim Pool posted an insightful status today that I felt was worth sharing here:
Tim Pool said:
When we hear about Weimar Germany, communists and Nazis fighting each other in the streets, we read about the economy and political factors that led to the rise of the Nazis.

The world we live in is very different than the world back then so it is hard to say what the future will be simply by looking to history.

However, there are a few constants that we can see.

People have a refusal to back down, they claim the other side is the monster and must be stopped. Both sides claim to be the victim of oppression.

And it doesnt matter if either is correct or truly oppressed.

One side has extremists shooting cops in Texas and in New York, the other has a car ram into a crowd of people or shoots up churches. Both sides show up to events armed with bats, corrosives, guns or explosives.

All of this is coming to a point where the average person, the uninitiated, is getting dragged into the fray.

Since the rise of Donald Trump I have witnessed time and time again an escalation of violence. I have seen elderly people thrown to the ground, their hats set on fire, in San Jose. I have seen tall blonde men with skull masks jumping barriers and punching people in the face.

In the end it doesn't matter who is at fault for starting the violence it matters who will stand up and stop it. Who will take responsibility and back away before things collapse entirely?

Since the escalation of violence I have said over and over that it will only get worse and it has. Now there are stories of people being stabbed for not "denouncing nazis" enough.

Antifa says that the "liberals get the bullet too."

And make no mistake the far right would do the same given the chance as they blame LGBTQ, minorities, and jewish people.

I feel like Im standing in a building with a group of people. Smoke starts to fill the room. Everyone looks around at each other and thinks "could there be a fire?" But instead of moving they wait to see if someone else will take action first.

I'm not going to sit inside a building that fills with smoke.

I'm going to be ready, I'm going to have a plan.

Hopefully the smoke we are seeing is just the toaster burning some bread, but I fear it might be the start of something much much worse.

I thought to myself that if the people around me aren't concerned why should I be?

But then I realized that they aren't on the front line like I am, they haven't seen the things I have.

They dont know about the cops being murdered in front of my apartment on Myrtle or the man with the bike lock bashing people over the head.

They don't see the calls for violence and the propaganda because they are watching Game of Thrones.

The majority doesn't matter in issues of political conflict.

All that this powder keg needs to ignite is a small group of dangerous people to get violent, and sure enough we have calls for violence on both sides.

Make no mistake, these calls to violence are always masked as "defending ourselves." Both sides will claim the other side started it, both sides will claim they have to defend themselves. In the end one side will win and it doesnt matter who. Both sides are violent extremists who blame identity for their problems.
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Approaching Infinity said:
angelburst29 said:
The name "Kessler" struck a cord with me. In the above links, it states, "A relative newcomer to the white nationalist scene," and "he was virtually unknown in the media prior to his crusade against Charlottesville." Maybe because "Jason" Kessler is actually "Mark Kessler" a controversial former Police Chief from a small town in Pennsylvania (2013), who eventually went public - stating that he was an FBI informant? After losing his status as Police Chief, it was last reported (2014) that Mark Kessler was hired on as a rent-a-cop at the Boscov's Dept. Store in Scranton's Steamtown Mall because no one else would hire him.
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Comparing the video of Mark, he doesn't bear any strong resemblance to Jason, so I'd say it's just a coincidence.
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Just a coincidence - maybe? In doing a comparison, of sorts:

Police Chief Mark Kessler lost his status in the Fall of 2013. The last news report that I came across was in 2014. After that, it's like he dropped off the radar, no media reports.

This link gives details on Mark Kessler’s escapades as an infiltrator and explains some of the techniques used. In one, he would form an organization, then put out a call for membership. Those who contacted him would receive a form to fill out and send it back for approval. Copies would then be forwarded to his contacts.. Other than a figure head, he rarely got involved in the internal workings of some of the organizations he started and they would eventually dissolve.

Mark Kessler: An Enemy of Liberty
_http://www.thelastbastille.com/2016/02/24/mark-kessler-an-enemy-of-liberty/

With the dates 2013 - 2014 in mind, consider the statements in this article on Jason Kessler:

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) reports that Jason Kessler, the organizer of last Saturday’s white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, is rumored to be a former Occupy Wall Street activist and supporter of Barack Obama.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/15/report-splc-charlottesville-racist-former-occupy-activist-obama-supporter-jason-kessler/

The left-wing SPLC is often partisan and overzealous in targeting hate groups, lumping legitimate conservative organizations together with actual extremists. Therefore its identification of Kessler’s left-wing roots is significant.

The SPLC notes: Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama.

At one recent speech in favor of Charlottesville’s status as a sanctuary city, Kessler live-streamed himself as an attendee questioned him and apologized for an undisclosed spat during Kessler’s apparent involvement with Occupy. Kessler appeared visibly perturbed by the woman’s presence and reminders of their past association.

Kessler himself has placed his “red-pilling” around December of 2013 when a PR executive was publicly excoriated for a tasteless Twitter joke about AIDS in Africa and found when she landed she had lost her job in the ensuing backlash.

Kessler started his blog “Jason Kessler, American Author,” toward the end of 2015 and spent the majority of the next year dispensing mindset and lifestyle advice and promoting two books authored during a period of “worldwide travel.” The first is a book of poetry titled Midnight Road, and a second novel called Badland Blues about a “drunken dwarf,” who is “unlucky in love, looks or money.”


Both have a habit of wearing "heavy black sunglasses":

Mark - Photos
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567265/Police-chief-suspended-rant-against-Libtards-gun-control-star-reality-featuring-MILITIA.html
https://www.rt.com/usa/chief-kessler-petition-militia-128/

Jason - Photos
http://hattyphoto.com/jason-kessler/
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http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jason-kessler-unite-the-right-charlottesville-2017-8
https://www.rt.com/viral/399499-jason-kessler-punched-face/


"Mark" claimed to have a "distaste of the Obama administration" and organized a volunteer group called the Constitutional Security Force, where as "Jason" was reportedly an Obama supporter involved in the Occupy movement as recently as November 2016, before establishing his white supremacist group “Unity & Security for America” in January, 2017.
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* Mark Kessler formed the "the Constitutional Security Force" in February 2013.

* Jason Kessler formed the “Unity & Security for America” in January 2017.


Alex Jones has had interviews with both?

The Alex Jones Show 2013-01-06 Sunday - Mark Kessler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_DhLKQY0I (1:26:19 min.)

Jason Kessler Interviewed By Alex Jones 8/14/2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Ull8EEo-I (25:05 min.)
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I don't know - maybe all of this is just a coincidence?
 
People who tore down statue of Confederate soldier in Durham, NC, are arrested & charged w/ misdemeanors & felonies:

Member of “Revolutionary Marxist-Leninist Party” Arrested for Role in Destroying Confederate Statue

Takiyah Fatima Thompson, a member of Workers World Party (WWP) and a student at N.C. Central University, was arrested on August 15 for playing a leading role in toppling a statue of a Confederate soldier that had stood in front of a county administrative building in Durham, North Carolina, since 1924.

On its own website, the WWP describes itself as “a revolutionary Marxist-Leninist party dedicated to organizing and fighting for a socialist revolution in the United States and around the world.”

Thompson was arrested after activists held a press conference at NCCU. In a release, the student radical admitted that she was the woman shown in a video climbing a ladder placed against the statue and tying a rope around the soldier’s neck so that others could pull the statue to the ground.

The Durham County sheriff’s office said Thompson is charged with the following misdemeanor and felony charges:

• 14-132 Disorderly conduct by injury to a statue (Class II Misdemeanor)

• 14-127 Damage to real property (statue as a fixture (Class I Misdemeanor)

• 14-288.2(c) Participation in a riot with property damage in excess of $1,500 (Class H Felony)

• 14-288.2(e) inciting others to riot where there is property damage in excess of $1,500 (Class F Felony)

“The people decided to take matters into our own hands and remove the statue,” said Thompson, in a public statement. “We are tired of waiting on politicians who could have voted to remove the white supremacist statues years ago, but they failed to act. So we acted.”

In addition to Thompson, the sheriff’s office posted the names of two others who were arrested and charged with the same violations: Dante Emmanuel Strobino and Ngoc Loan Tran.

Strobino is considerably older than the others (35) and has been arrested previously. He was arrested in March 2010 in Raleigh, North Carolina, and charged with second-degree trespassing. A news article about that arrest stated that court records showed Strobino was found guilty of the same charge in Johnston County, North Carolina, in 2005. Strobino has also contributed many articles to Workers World, the official newspaper of the Workers’ World Party (WWP).

A program for the “Workers World Forum” published in Workers World listed Strobino as the guest speaker for a talk in Detroit on April 13, 2013 (“‘RIGHT TO WORK’: Where did it come from? Where do we go from here?”). The ad listed Strobino as “Field Organizer, United Electrical Workers Local 150; Co-organizer, Southern Workers Assembly.”

In the biographical information for Strobino, we find: “Dante Strobino has helped build militant rank-and-file unionism with university workers, mental health workers, state transportation workers, office workers, food service workers and municipal workers.”

This information clearly shows that Strobino is a professional organizer. This fact, along with his frequent contributions to Workers World, tells us that the toppling of the Confederate statue was no spontaneous case of a few overzealous college students getting carried away. Strobino’s involvement and Thompson’s membership in the WWP tell us that this was a professionally organized act of revolutionary leftist violence.

On August 15, ABC11 news in Durham spoke by phone with WWP activist Lamont Lilly. Lilly indicated that the revolutionary party is not about to end its war against Confederate monuments.

When the reporter asked her if the “protests” will continue, will more statues be torn down, Lilly responded, “I hope so.” Apparently, even the news reporter does not know the difference between protests — which can be peaceful — and acts of destructive vandalism.

Read the rest of article:
_https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/26713-member-of-revolutionary-marxist-leninist-party-arrested-for-role-in-destroying-confederate-statue
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Phoenix, when you post an article (which includes a FB status type thing), please also post the link. Thanks.
 
Laura said:
Phoenix, when you post an article (which includes a FB status type thing), please also post the link. Thanks.
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Opps, forgot to post it for that one. Sorry, Laura.

Here's the link to the FB status: https://www.facebook.com/Timcasts/posts/1418587971590887
 
[quote author=Phoenix quoting Tim Pool]
The majority doesn't matter in issues of political conflict.

All that this powder keg needs to ignite is a small group of dangerous people to get violent, and sure enough we have calls for violence on both sides.

Make no mistake, these calls to violence are always masked as "defending ourselves." Both sides will claim the other side started it, both sides will claim they have to defend themselves. In the end one side will win and it doesnt matter who. Both sides are violent extremists who blame identity for their problems.
[/quote]

I agree. The agreement is based on history (1947) of the Indian subcontinent where about a million (yes million) men, women and children of both sides were butchered (literally; not too many guns around, so mostly improvised and old-fashioned weapons used) due to religious and economic reasons. The communities involved were Hindu (including Sikhs) and Muslims. They were neighbors for close to a century. There were occasional communal tensions but everything exploded in 1947 at the time of partition of the subcontinent. The initial sparks were lit by trouble-makers and criminals but once the ball was rolling, these were ordinary people turning on each other with a brutality that is still unfathomable. Note that this was before the age of violent video games and common people were mostly shielded from the worst of the 2 world wars. Law and order was relatively good during the British colonial rule which continued right until the mayhem broke out. So yes, ordinary sleepy politically disinterested people are capable of butchering men, women and children of the other side when they are made to feel that their own community is under threat from that other side. Not necessary to be Nazis or communists or any other identifiable ideological label which can be demonized with impunity.

These are different times. In the US, even if things are allowed to devolve to a degree with respect to street violence, it would most likely be stemmed with the military being called in. The situation has to get worse enough so that people no longer complain about their freedoms being taken away. That is the kind of worst case scenario I can envisage here.

A more optimistic scenario is that the underlying divisions in US society are coming up in stark relief, thanks to the election of Trump. People en-masse are not completely desensitized to violence. The death of one woman is being discussed extensively. While skirmishes like these are not likely to go away in the short term, they may act as sirens to wake people up to reality and come to some basic understanding through dialogue. Some people and organizations are promoting more dialogue across the divide. If such efforts catch on and become more popular, they could be a force towards avoiding worst case situations. As long as there is mutual dialogue, chances of large scale outbreak of violence are perhaps lower. Sort of small fires and slow burn without big explosions.

Gurdjieff's "soolionensius" - which roughly boils down to cosmic influences causing higher propensity for conflict among humans - can be a plausible (but unprovable) high level hypothesis for the situation . Conflicts can be settled at various levels - physical conflict being the lowest. We shall see how this gets settled.
 
Bombshell connection between Charlottesville, Soros, CIA — Same players involved in Ukraine overthrow working behind the scenes to oust Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L58T2dl997A (49:07 min.)

Published on Aug 15, 2017

As evidenced this weekend, a civil war is brewing in this country, laying the foundation for a violent coup to take out Trump. Soros-funded NGO's have been able to achieve regime change in other countries by quite literally teaming up with Neo-nazis and "moderate" terrorists. Now, investigative reporter Lee Stranahan reveals the same players involved in the Ukraine overthrow are working behind the scenes to oust President Trump.
 
obyvatel said:
I agree. The agreement is based on history (1947) of the Indian subcontinent where about a million (yes million) men, women and children of both sides were butchered (literally; not too many guns around, so mostly improvised and old-fashioned weapons used) due to religious and economic reasons. The communities involved were Hindu (including Sikhs) and Muslims. They were neighbors for close to a century. There were occasional communal tensions but everything exploded in 1947 at the time of partition of the subcontinent. The initial sparks were lit by trouble-makers and criminals but once the ball was rolling, these were ordinary people turning on each other with a brutality that is still unfathomable. Note that this was before the age of violent video games and common people were mostly shielded from the worst of the 2 world wars. Law and order was relatively good during the British colonial rule which continued right until the mayhem broke out. So yes, ordinary sleepy politically disinterested people are capable of butchering men, women and children of the other side when they are made to feel that their own community is under threat from that other side. Not necessary to be Nazis or communists or any other identifiable ideological label which can be demonized with impunity.

These are different times. In the US, even if things are allowed to devolve to a degree with respect to street violence, it would most likely be stemmed with the military being called in. The situation has to get worse enough so that people no longer complain about their freedoms being taken away. That is the kind of worst case scenario I can envisage here.
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Another example for a worst case that comes to mind is the Bosnian conflict; here too, the military got involved, but there were various other military and paramilitary groups that formed. What happened, if I understand correctly, is exactly what you described: regular people becoming butchers of women and children, on all sides. Notice that this was sort of a "color revolution" as well with various outside forces igniting the fire.

obyvatel said:
A more optimistic scenario is that the underlying divisions in US society are coming up in stark relief, thanks to the election of Trump. People en-masse are not completely desensitized to violence. The death of one woman is being discussed extensively. While skirmishes like these are not likely to go away in the short term, they may act as sirens to wake people up to reality and come to some basic understanding through dialogue. Some people and organizations are promoting more dialogue across the divide. If such efforts catch on and become more popular, they could be a force towards avoiding worst case situations. As long as there is mutual dialogue, chances of large scale outbreak of violence are perhaps lower. Sort of small fires and slow burn without big explosions.

Gurdjieff's "soolionensius" - which roughly boils down to cosmic influences causing higher propensity for conflict among humans - can be a plausible (but unprovable) high level hypothesis for the situation . Conflicts can be settled at various levels - physical conflict being the lowest. We shall see how this gets settled.
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So what's left for us to do is to do our best to promote understanding and pointing out what's going on here - sending out a signal of sanity. Also sharing posts such as the one Phoenix shared - voices of reason. And ignoring those possessed by ideology (and subject to the cosmic forces you mentioned) who kick and scream and unconsciously or consciously want to turn this situation into an all-out bloodshed. Concentrate on those who still have a chance to come to reason. This may all be in vain, but what else can we do? Not much I suppose, except sharing, learning and growing in the process...
 
luc said:
Also sharing posts such as the one Phoenix shared - voices of reason.
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Here is what Peter Lavelle, moderator of RTs CrossTalk Show and trained historian had to say yesterday on facebook:

Peter Lavelle said:
Now I am going to really anger some people. The America Civil War was fought over State’s Rights, with Slavery the primary trigger. Slavery was an odious and deeply immoral institution. But it was not Slavery or General Robert E. Lee’s decision to back the Confederacy that started the War. The newly formed secessionist state of the Confederacy attacked Union forces in the South. This was legitimately seen as an attack on the Union. The Federal Union responded to crush the secessionist aggression. Thus, the narrative at the time was the following: The North correctly claimed the sovereign state of the United States was attacked from within the Union, while the South – from their perspective – were later attacked and occupied from the North (a state they no longer recognized). There’s scant evidence Northern soldiers fought against Slavery and Southern soldiers fought for Slavery. General Robert E. Lee is a monumental figure in American history. Applying today’s sensibilities, he is certainly a controversial person. But he was also a person of conscience. The monument to General Robert E. Lee should remain. We should reflect upon what his historical legacy means and learn from it. Or another track can be taken: airbrush out of history of all other historical figures who don’t measure up to highly charged and intensively ideological biases. The choice is clear: reflect and learn or destroy the past that made our present.
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followed by this:

Peter Lavelle said:
Comment: I was trained as an academic historian. I studied history and it is a subject that I am always mindful of. I know what fascism is – its ideology and practice. Traditionally, we are told and taught that fascism comes from the right part of the political spectrum. Historically, this claim is based on historical evidence. However, there is also contemporary evidence that the left part of the political spectrum now practices the same ideology and practice in the west. Today the right doesn’t shut down political debate, but the left does. Intolerance is the oxygen that gives the left life. (Fully anticipating a lot of unfriending and blocking after this post).
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obyvatel said:
These are different times. In the US, even if things are allowed to devolve to a degree with respect to street violence, it would most likely be stemmed with the military being called in. The situation has to get worse enough so that people no longer complain about their freedoms being taken away. That is the kind of worst case scenario I can envisage here.
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I have only been made aware of the possibility of a bloody color revolution in the US in the last few days. While trying to catch up with all the discussion, a thought that occupies my mind is the why of it. It seems clear that events are being pushed to the breaking point by certain power behind the scene. However, I find myself asking what purpose would it serve them. After all, the US is still their primary "enforcement" tool around the world, and what good would it does for them to destroy it? I came up with a few reasons, so I will list them here for the sake of discussion.

* To target Trump and destablize the country so that he cannot carry out his agenda even if he wants to. This has been going on since Trump won the election. However, it cannot be the sole reason to resort to such an extreme "measure".

* To make the situation so bad that the majority of people would beg for an overt totalitarian regime, i.e. completely throwing away any semblance of democracy or check and balance in the US. This seems to be the most valid reason. Without extreme events and circumstances, the average people would simply not accept it.

* To have the Left push the majority to such an extent that they snap and unleash their anger on the Left and anything remotely associated with it. Since such reaction would always be extreme, anyone with progressive inclination (I'm talking about true progressives here, not the fascists disguised as progressives) and any minority groups (people of color, LGBT, etc.) may become targets. This is possibly related to the plan to eliminate Semitic people that the C's mentioned? This one is mostly speculation though.

The above is not to say that "they" are all powerful and everything that happened happened because they planned it that way. The ongoing Earth Changes / The Wave is likely to have a big effect on people's minds and push many of them towards disintegration. So that's another factor as well.
 
Bobo08 said:
I came up with a few reasons, so I will list them here for the sake of discussion.
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Another possible reason to set the US 'on fire' in this way now is to have well-established opposing camps already at each others' throats for the time when external forces cause serious social chaos in the US (i.e. volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, meteorites) and there is no food in the stores etc. By establishing the opposing factions in this way, the 'elite' can be more confident that the people will fight among themselves and not against the government, with the government in the role of 'peace keeper'.
 
Here's the guy from the Vice documentary on the scene in Charlottesville who supposedly organized the march and was acting all macho and white supremacyish.

The really sad thing is that there isn't even a warrant out for his arrest.

As I said when the Vice docu was posted here:

Remember that these people are the EXTREME right. They're completely ridiculous (as should be obvious from the video) and not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. They have been around for a long time and are generally the object of ridicule, including from the 'right'. They said this was their biggest demonstration in 20 years. There were about 300 of them there. Not exactly a mass popular movement.
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And as I wrote on FB in ref to this video:

Can everyone please quit with the hysterical 'White supremacists are taking over America" nonsense that is being sown by the media. It is patently obvious to any rational human being that these 'white supremacists' are brain-dead idiots and the idea that they could 'take over America' is utter horsesh*t.
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Joe said:
Bobo08 said:
I came up with a few reasons, so I will list them here for the sake of discussion.
Click to expand...

Another possible reason to set the US 'on fire' in this way now is to have well-established opposing camps already at each others' throats for the time when external forces cause serious social chaos in the US (i.e. volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, meteorites) and there is no food in the stores etc. By establishing the opposing factions in this way, the 'elite' can be more confident that the people will fight among themselves and not against the government, with the government in the role of 'peace keeper'.
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That exactly makes perfect sense to me. The volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, meteorites are frightening. But the trick is I guess is to keep people more frightened of each others while the Earth Changes are going on. In that way, the position of the government will remain strong since they need to keep the peace.
 
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