Water Kefir

skycsil

Jedi Master
I've been using water kefir for years since discovered I'm gluten intolerant and it helped me a lot to recover the gut flora. Stopped making it when stopped buying sugar, from my experience it's hard to find the point where the sugars are completely gone but not yet made alcohol, so I'll might give kombucha a try (if I can find it!).
 

Konstantin

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I`m making my own kombucha for almost 15 years and kefir for almost 2 years. Their quality depend from surrounding temperature and the quality, purity of water used.
Regular tap water have a lot of chloride inside , so when used for making kombucha or kefir it just kills the microorganisms inside. And the you have anly sugary water at the end.
My mother have a lot of problems with her stomach, a lot of pains, but since she started to drink kombucha her condition is much better. In the winter when temperature is too low or at the summer when its too hot, kombucha and kefir are usually not perfectly fermented so they have a more sugar in them. At this periods you must lower the sugar you are using or try to increase or decrease the fermenting time. It the best to see the final products and decide on the spot if its ready or not. If its too sweet for your taste leave it few more days so the sugar can ferment even more.

I like it when it heavily carbonated and when you cant taste the sweet taste from it. It means that the sugar is fermented. Otherwise you are getting just a sugary water or tea and it have a lot of sugar inside. If you can taste the sweet sugar in the final drink , then its not done yet.
 
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Goemon_

Jedi Master
skycsil said:
I've been using water kefir for years since discovered I'm gluten intolerant and it helped me a lot to recover the gut flora. Stopped making it when stopped buying sugar, from my experience it's hard to find the point where the sugars are completely gone but not yet made alcohol, so I'll might give kombucha a try (if I can find it!).
I had some luck and got my kombucha mother from a local producer. I have eared that here in France you can get it from the pharmacy, and if you can't find one according to a comment from this blog _http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-your-own-Kombucha-mother/ you can make your own mother from the start by making the sugary tea and letting it sit for 2-3 weeks.
 

Deckard

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Lately I have been experimenting with making kefir from goats milk ( obtained straight from the farmer and not pasteurized), I decided to give it a go since goat milk contains A2 casein which in theory should not be as inflammatory as A1 casein. Well so much for the theory - indeed I managed to obtain very tasty and nice kefir - but after a week or so - my right knee and right elbow started hurting which use to happen on and off all the time when I was consuming dairy, so definitely no goat milk either.
 

Konstantin

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Z said:
Lately I have been experimenting with making kefir from goats milk ( obtained straight from the farmer and not pasteurized), I decided to give it a go since goat milk contains A2 casein which in theory should not be as inflammatory as A1 casein. Well so much for the theory - indeed I managed to obtain very tasty and nice kefir - but after a week or so - my right knee and right elbow started hurting which use to happen on and off all the time when I was consuming dairy, so definitely no goat milk either.
That is the reason why i switched to make water kefir . I used to make milk kefir but because the inflammatory reactions from casein i decided to quit it. According to the thread about Autoimmune diseases caused by amoeba, maybe it will be a good choice to use camel milk for milk kefir. Its super hard to find it but maybe its possible for those who can find it.
 

happyliza

The Living Force
I am interested in trying this protocol if I can find the right ingredients after reading: Kombucha - Miracle Fungus - The Essential Handbook by Harald Tietze.

He mentions also using activated water. Coconut cream, Camel milk sounds good!

Also mentioned research from Russia and Czechoslovakia:
Water is divided into 'live water' and 'dead water'. DC current converts natural water of about pH7 into acid water (pH4) and alkaline water (pH10). This water was used, according to reports, against a wide range of diseases with excellent results. The research was based on the fact that plants can thrive only in a specific pH milieu. Unwanted stinging nettles for example can be eliminated by altering the pH of the soil (calcium) so that the stinging nettles can no longer thrive.

There is a similarity with diseases, according to the research. Altering the pH of the blood should fight certain diseases. With cancer for example, if the blood pH is altered with activated water to 7.4 there is no 'fertile soil' for the cancer to grow in, which should prevent further growth of this tumour. As the information from Russia shows, over 500 patients with different diseases were all treated with success. It is also pointed out, however, that it is impossible to cure all diseases with this water. (Krotov). The manufacture of this water is relatively easy. I have met in the last months some people from Czechoslovakia who confirmed with enthusiasm the healing successes achieved with activated water. You can find detailed information about 'live' and 'dead' water in my book Water Medicine.
The pH of Kombucha is of great importance..... The interaction with the pH of food that we eat and how it affects our pH in the body is very complex. Fermented Kombucha, when it tastes like cider, has a pH reading of around 3.0. With varying tea/sugar amounts and fermentation time, the pH can vary between 2.8 and 4.0.

The pH scale goes from 0 - 14 and shows if a substance is acid or alkaline. .... With more awareness of pH and its adverse effect on our metabolism, many people become confused and draw the wrong conclusions. A woman from South Australia wrote (to) me that "Kombucha cannot be food for arthritis since with a pH reading of about 3.0 it must have a negative effect". This is a common misunderstanding. A 'sour' or acid food does not necessarily create an acid mileau in the body. In fact, Kombucha can help create a pH balance in the body.

..... A pH level of over 7.56 sets the stage for the development of tumors (Fasching). It might be confusing, but acid food (pH of less than 7.0) has an alkaline effect in the body.
 
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Yas

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Thanks for you replies!

Well, I started my first batch. I tasted it after 24 hours and it was too sweet, so I left it alone... I will see how it is today.

Hopefully, it will be a cheap way to get my probiotics. :D

I've tried coconut milk kefir before, and it was good, yet, I have reactions to coconut so I wanted to try water kefir instead.
 

Yas

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I started drinking my water kefir three days ago and what I have to say is that I'm not feeling well with it.

The first day was OK, I didn't have any strange symptoms, but yesterday (2nd day) I woke up feeling achy (shoulder and neck), with a sore throat and a burning mouth (tongue sores, I used to get those as a child). I'm also having some mucus production, feeling pain in the joints and extremely tired. I had an HS (Hidradenitis Suppurative) flare up, that was controlled by taking some zinc. In the evening, I drank another bit (maybe too much) and I had nausea, almost to the point of vomiting (I'm sorry for the details). Today I had another bit in the morning and felt OK but very tired for most of the day, but in the afternoon I started feeling as if I had a low fever and also itchy; my mind is foggy and I have a mild headache now. It's like a bad flu.

Now, I was blaming anything else on my feelings but today I considered that it was the kefir (I know, I'm kind of silly). So I searched and most people say they get some symptoms when they start taking it and that they are part of a herxheimer reaction to die-off of bad bacteria promoted by the kefir probiotics.

From _http://www.yemoos.com/faqwahealth.html

Has kefir ever made anyone sick?

Kefir is very safe and there isn't any need to worry when following the simple steps on how to kefir properly. Research has shown time and again that because of the symbiotic colony of bacteria and yeast that make up a kefir grain it naturally wards off outside invaders (such as dangerous bacteria, mold or harmful yeast). It does so by freeing up antibiotics within its bacterial complex that helps to ensure the resistance to foreign pathogens and ultimately ensuring its own colony for survival. Some studies have shown kefir to ward off salmonella and E. Coli samples that have been injected into it as well as possessing the capability to kill H. Pylori. This is not to say that some people don't react to kefir, especially when first trying it. This is based upon other properties including the acidic nature of the drink, your body not being acquainted with so many live probiotic cultures, or a reaction to the kefir itself (some people are sensitive to the acidic nature of fermented foods). It is also not recommended for those with Niemann-Pick Disease (types A and B) which is a rare genetically-inherited disease caused by a deficiency in the enzyme Sphingomyelinase. Contaminated kefir has only been shown to happen with commercial kefir, which was contaminated during the manufacturing and processing of imitation kefir. Research has even shown that kefir inoculated with E. coli was able to inhibit the growth of that microorganism. Most people in all their years of making kefir have never had a bad batch once. As with all things, use your best judgment and some good old reliable common sense - if your kefir smells terrible or looks colorful like an easter egg, just toss it and start fresh.
Also:

Ferments rank high in probiotic strains and give the person preparing the food the ability to introduce more strains that are specifically deficient for that person’s intestinal tract. For example, fermented coconut water, a probiotic drink, is beneficial at building up the good bacteria in the gut enabling it to fight off pathogens. Many people with yeast overgrowth say they see powerful die off symptoms specific to killing off yeast strains like candida through fermented coconut water, sauerkraut and kraut juice due to the high lactobacillus content.

At the same time some say eating fermented foods feed yeasts and should be avoided resulting in a dire point of confusion for many people. This point of controversy can easily be addressed through those with the most severely damaged guts, these people are called canaries-in-the-coal-mine. When they eat a food they should not have their body's respond immediately. My son is one of these people. Since we have been healing his gut I now realize, I am one of these people, too, it was never visible before due to phantom masking – where your body goes into overdrive to overcome the pathogens masking the symptoms. When a canary-in-the-coal-mine person eats a food they should not eat they respond with symptoms specific to their body, exposing the weak link in their genetic make-up: stimming, attention issues, anxiety, yeast effects, rashes, dyslexia, brain fog, exhaustion, etc.

While you are building the gut it is necessary to introduce new probiotic strains looking for die off: headache, runny nose, cold-like symptoms, flu-like symptoms, joint pain, body aches, anxiety, depression, confusing thoughts, etc. Usually die off symptoms are specific to each person and generally follow the same pattern of symptoms caused by the illness. For example if your child is autistic and stims with drooling, once you give him the right probiotic with strains he is weak in, his die off may be stimming and drooling.

This is the puzzle, where mom needs to become a detective as healing the gut is sometimes confusing. Those with the most damaged guts can only tolerate one drop of a probiotic liquid on their tongue or one drop in a glass of water sipped throughout the day. That is their starting point. After a month they build to two drops a day and so forth. Others can drink a whole quart or two of the same probiotic liquid and not experience die 0ff until they drink over 2 quarts. If you can tolerate that much of those specific strains you do not need to build those strains. Look further for other weak strains through other probiotic foods or over-the-counter strains.

The goal is to look for die off and progress by building those weak strains.

The Herxheimer reaction, also known as Herxing, is key to healing and recovery. This die off reaction is your marker and tells you if you are just wasting time or actually building. You want this. You are looking for this.

_http://nourishingplot.com/2014/11/28/the-proper-way-to-take-a-probiotic-and-the-mistakes-that-are-wasting-your-money/
The rest of the article is quite informative, it covers histamine issues, and the GAPS protocol by Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride.

I was about to say I was allergic to kefir and that I was going to quit, but I guess I'll just slow down a bit but stick to it and see how it goes... if it's a herx reaction, I'll be glad to be killing off some critters and balancing my gut. :D

It also makes me wonder about my reaction to sauerkraut, I thought I was allergic but maybe it was just another herx reaction :huh:

Did you also had some of these symptoms when you started with water kefir?
 

Yas

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So, I'm coming back to this post after 3 years because I've resumed my experiments with water kefir. The thing is, I've always wanted to find something that could bring beneficial bacteria and I haven't had much results taking regular probiotic supplements. I've read here and there that fermented food are a whole different thing and water kefir seems to be the cheapest, easiest way to make your own probiotic drink.

I knew I have been much better health-wise for the last 2 years, but reading my my post above I remember just how bad I was. I've done different protocols during these years so I guess all of that helped me to get to this point where I haven't got any important symptoms whatsoever. So I guess that my previous reactions to water kefir were massive die-offs and herx reactions.

Now, I've been making and drinking my water kefir for almost a month and I can feel lots of benefits. I feel cognitive and mood improvements as well as digestive improvements. All my family is taking it as well, although they also drink milk kefir. They have also noticed digestive improvements.

I just wanted to report in case someone wants to try this. But if you have an autoimmune condition, be very careful because probiotics, even if they are very good, can trigger a reaction to those who are very sensitive or have a bad case of dysbiosis.
 

Oxajil

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Now, I've been making and drinking my water kefir for almost a month and I can feel lots of benefits. I feel cognitive and mood improvements as well as digestive improvements. All my family is taking it as well, although they also drink milk kefir. They have also noticed digestive improvements.
That's great to hear, Yas! Thanks for sharing. :-) I know it's not exactly the same drink, but kombucha has a positive effect on me and my digestion also (though I'm still trying to get the taste right!).
 

Lys

Padawan Learner
Thank you for sharing Yas!

I have been thinking of making my own Kefir since I have seen my classmates in naturopathy class drinking it.
I'm glad you updated the thread, it is great to read that you feel some positive results.
I was also concerned about feeding it with sugar but now that it has been said that good bacterias low it down, I guess I'll have a try.
It will be another way to add probiotics every day as I've been making my own sauerkraut everytime I can for a few months now.
I use to take 2 tablespoons of sauerkraut before each meal and the first thing I noticed is a good digestion and fewer cravings for chocolate after the meal.
I just wanted to know how much kefir you drink per day?
 

Yas

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That's great to hear, Yas! Thanks for sharing. :-) I know it's not exactly the same drink, but kombucha has a positive effect on me and my digestion also (though I'm still trying to get the taste right!).
Yeah, I've tried kombucha and noticed digestive improvements too. But I haven't been able to find the mother culture here in my country yet. Kefir is easily available so that's why I prefer that one. Good to know that kombucha has a good effect on you as well. :-)

It will be another way to add probiotics every day as I've been making my own sauerkraut everytime I can for a few months now.
Yes, I'd like to try some sauerkraut again to see how it goes. I developed a fear towards this kind of foods after reacting so badly to them but I guess that now I can give it try again. And it seems that you can use the water kefir as starter to help the sauerkraut fermentation process too.

I just wanted to know how much kefir you drink per day?
I drink one or two cups a day with meals. I don't want to drink more than that and I've read that 1 to 4 cups a day is the general guideline.
 

Lys

Padawan Learner
Yes, I'd like to try some sauerkraut again to see how it goes. I developed a fear towards this kind of foods after reacting so badly to them but I guess that now I can give it try again.
I really like sauerkraut, especially with some spices and garlic.
Let me know if you have a try again, I am curious about the result as it seems that you feel better now.

And it seems that you can use the water kefir as starter to help the sauerkraut fermentation process too.
Ok, that's interesting!
I'm definitely going to ask for some kefir mother culture to my classmates.

I drink one or two cups a day with meals. I don't want to drink more than that and I've read that 1 to 4 cups a day is the general guideline.
Thank you Yas, I will start slowly then and see how it goes.
 

herondancer

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That's great to hear, Yas! Thanks for sharing. :-) I know it's not exactly the same drink, but kombucha has a positive effect on me and my digestion also (though I'm still trying to get the taste right!).
What is your recipe? I was making kombucha for a couple of years when it first became popular. For the black tea I was using a brand called Constant Comment from Bigelow Teas, which contained little bits of dehydrated orange peel and some spices like clove (not specified). It made the most delicious base for the drink. Or maybe add some of the flavourings from teas you already like to the plain black? I've made it with only black tea too, and yeah, it's kinda grim. :nuts:
 

Oxajil

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Yeah, I've tried kombucha and noticed digestive improvements too. But I haven't been able to find the mother culture here in my country yet. Kefir is easily available so that's why I prefer that one. Good to know that kombucha has a good effect on you as well. :-)
Here's a starter kit for example that includes kombucha scoby: Link

What is your recipe? I was making kombucha for a couple of years when it first became popular. For the black tea I was using a brand called Constant Comment from Bigelow Teas, which contained little bits of dehydrated orange peel and some spices like clove (not specified). It made the most delicious base for the drink. Or maybe add some of the flavourings from teas you already like to the plain black? I've made it with only black tea too, and yeah, it's kinda grim. :nuts:
That does sound delicious :-) My first batches were organic black tea, and now I'm experimenting with green tea. Once it's done and bottled, I'm going to add some of the store-bought kombucha that contains ginger. And in another bottle, I might add some mint or fresh ginger. Then see what happens! But growing kombucha itself, I'm just sticking to black/green tea with organic sugar for now. Also, there are some teas that you cannot add to your kombucha (see here), it's mostly tea bags that contain oils that are bad for it.
 
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