What are your thoughts on having children?

I'm glad for your decision, Fluffy.

Just 2 hours ago a young work mate of mine came to visit. She tends to lay her problems before me and in the end rarely listens to the advice she's asked for.
Now she's pregnant by 'accident' without means, no partner and a bunch of debts.
She said that she is going to have an abortion. The only thing to do for me was assuring her that I'd assist her in the repercussions.

Strange thing, I thought. Obviously souls still want to check in last minute for a rocky ride.
At the same time I felt happy that you decided to face what has appeared before you.
 
Ant22 said:
The concept of bringing a soul into this world has been mentioned multiple times in this thread itself, and whenever the question of having children has been brought up elsewhere. And whenever it has been mentioned in that context it has often read like the underlying assumption has been that the child will have an individualised soul. I'd like to comment on that. (P.S: the comment isn't aimed at you specifically Andrian, I just quoted your post as it's the most recent mention of a 'soul' in this thread.)
  • As we have learned from the C's, 50% of people on our planet don't have an individualised soul, they are the so-called Organic Portals.
  • As further mentioned in the sessions, when a person starts to wake up the system seeks to insert more 'units' into that person's life to hinder that waking up process.
  • Those who have followed the conversations and reading assignments about genetic research will remember the concept of genetic entropy, i.e. genes decreasing in quality over time due to accumulating harmful mutations. This could further decrease the likelihood of a potential child's ability to carry an individualised soul. As Laura mentioned in the below comment in another thread:


This means that the chances that your child will have an individualised soul as opposed to being an OP are lower than 50%, possibly significantly so.

I guess it may be a good idea to re-read the OP thread to help you decide whether you will be able to raise an individual with such qualities. To me, the most important parts of that thread to review would be OPs' draining influence on souled individuals - which I'm guessing is why the system seeks to implement more OP units into the lives of those who begin to follow the path of seeking the truth.

And with that in mind, are you confident that you can protect yourselves to an extent that your own progress will not be derailed? And can you offer your child your unconditional acceptance even if they will never follow your footsteps, and will lead a largely materialistic lifestyle without any inclination towards spiritualism or soul evolution, at least not in the way we understand it here?

Another thing is that a souled individual who has not started to wake up is not really any better than an OP. So the possibility of your child being an OP is not the only factor to consider. For even if your child will carry an individualised soul, that soul may not be at a stage where asking deeper questions even interests them. They may be one of the souls who will be repeating the 3D cycle. I guess that won't be an issue if you accept this as a possibility and you think you will be OK with whoever your child may be. As long as you can protect them from crazy influences of the modern society you may still raise a well adjusted human being. But to what extent can you really protect them from those influences?

Given how many parents take pride in their children following their footsteps in the areas of life that matter to them I thought the above points may be worth mentioning. This may of course be a lesson in accepting someone as they are and that in itself will have some value.


That's how I'm looking at it as well. And with that in mind, having children isn't necessarily a lesson needed in order to progress, at least not for everyone.
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I had to come back to that post because I've been noticing something in real life that is incredible, and not in a good way: the huge number of children born with autism and special needs these days. I live in London, and I've heard that in some other countries in Europe it's not as bad but from what I heard there's also a huge problem is the US too.

For context, I live with a sibling who has young kids, and it baffles me the number of kids in my nephews' school who have autism. And that's not, factoring in the number of people I personally know in my social circle (friends and acquaintances) who have children with autism. Recently, I even learned that someone I know who is pregnant is having a hard time because the foetus is thought to have brain malformation. Not only that but in my current role, as part of one of my projects, I deal with vulnerable individuals, which include special needs children. My job only covers specific parts of London, but to give you a bit of perspective, unless it's maybe a two or three-storey building, I don't know one building under out remit without a household with an autistic child. And in tower buildings, there's usually at least two or three families who have at least one child (sometimes there are several children) with autism, and keep in mind that I'm only talking about cases that I personally know because I've personally dealt with them. However, I've talked to social workers and teachers, and they too mentioned the same thing. Honestly, it made me wonder how the entire system could cope long-term.

And just so you know, my team leader has a child with autism, and so does one of his cousins. A colleague of mine also has a child with autism. And one time my team leader mentioned that her husband's manager has a child with autism. I also once casually had a conversation with the mother of one of my nephew's friend and she mentioned that her boss had to take some leave to take care of his severely autistic teenage daughter.

Then, I also know tons of people who apparently have ADHD and under one form of medication or another. And every other day, while watching/ reading the news I learn of diseases and illnesses and genetic malformations that I never knew existed.

I know that vaccines have been linked to autism, but is it truly enough to account for the number of kids with autism? And I guess diet plays a role too, but again is that it? Sometimes, I do wonder if the number of special needs kids who are born and who though society doesn't want to admit the vast majority will need care for all their lives isn't a sign that humanity has exhausted itself. It strikes me that one of the big reasons humans reproduced was to continue their line and so that parents would have someone to take care of them as they age. But the pendulum is swinging to the other side. With the number of special needs kids being born these days, we're slowly having a society where parents and society will need to care for their young forever because the young unfortunately do not have the capacity.

Also, if people notice, there's a massive push for seeing what are mental disorders that have a clear impact on someone's capacity to think and take care of themselves as neurodiversity. But it occurs to me that based on the number of children who are special needs and are going to be born with special needs, society has no choice but to push for "blind acceptance" because otherwise, there would be a huge number of moot questions to answer about the number of current and future adults that cannot truly work and cannot live unassisted and how the government can cope with the cost of ensuring their continued wellbeing. For example, I have a friend who works in a supermarket in retail. The company has a quota of people with disability they have to take. Most of them tend to be adults with mental disability (e.g., Down Syndrome, autism, other learning disorder...etc). My friend was telling me that there is a team whose sole purpose is to undo all the mistakes that the workers with mental disability do. Aside from that, there are other significant cognitive issues that makes it very delicate to manage them.

I do think that for conditions outside of autism, the advance of medicine may be an answer. I often hear of babies/ children/ young adults with incurable diseases who often have severe cognitive and/ or physical disabilities. Many are maintained alive through extreme treatments and often die rather young with a lot of pain and suffering involved. But recently it occurred to me that as harsh as it sounds, decades ago, those individuals wouldn't have survived because medicine wasn't where it is today. So I'm thinking that perhaps it factors in the rise of special needs children/ individuals. In the same vein, while talking with elderly women, I realised that in the past, miscarriages was a lot more common than it is today, again because medicine wasn't as advanced as it is today.

However, again, someone I was talking to recently raised the point that in their opinion miscarriage is a natural process that evict foetus that weren't properly formed/ weak and that potentially would have resulted in an unhealthy child. However, because right now medicine tries to ensure that all pregnancies go to term/ result in a child one way or the other, it means that overall there are less miscarriages, but also result in children that likely wouldn't have survived without external help because they perhaps weren't healthy/ strong foetus to begin with and result in children who have health conditions. Their overall point was that the body knew best what it needed to reject. I really don't know enough about this topic to give an informed opinion but it was an interesting perspective.

It's not an answer to the thread question, but I couldn't see where else it could fit. And I was wondering too if others in the forum had noticed the same thing. We're living in strange times. By the way, I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, and if you find anything insensitive do know that it wasn't intended. I'm not yet 30, so when I talk about when I was young, I'm not talking about a time that far away. However, when I was young, I literally only knew one person with a learning disability. Everybody in the neighbour knew them. Even at school neither me nor my siblings ever had someone with a mental disorder. But my siblings and I often talk about how much everything has changed, and nowadays, mental disorder of one kind or the other has just become so common. Granted we grew up in a different country in Europe but still.
 
A lot of great considerations in this thread. It is a question that has also been boiling in my mind which is probably natural progression of biological maturity to which eventually every individual has to deal with. Those less conscious are more prone to act on the instinct others probably less. I agree that we are not in that perspective to determine the needs of others. For the most part we will run into the projections of our needs, which we may fail to take responsibility of. On the otherside if we consider our own spiritual choice to come here at this time, in all those families, in all those conditions and look where we are now? For the very least we are most probably a step further from where our ancestors or parents were/are in the sense of consciousness. What are the odds that our children would be anything less consciously or in potential than our selves? Yes the world has its own problems, but always had only that those problems are coming more and more to the surface, or it seems so to me with some observation. No I am not saying that everyone should go now have children. I think before having children everyone should have some self consideration about having to deal with the potential pain of their offsprings. Some are in better position than others to do so when it comes to the terms of what the parent may have to offer. I personally am still in the process of maturing mentally, emotionally. I wouldn't be able to protect my child properly at this time. The financial side maybe is is stronger for me, but I do realize that children while they are small has in away vampyric nature which requires time, energy attention beyond material needs and more, while they are in the process of growing up. They require sexual, creative energy. So there is a choice for to either use that energy to grow as a man in every possible way or stop growing and give all that I have to the child. For some children may be needed, because they may act as induction of positive emotions. The necessary challenge to bring out the hidden potential of the parent. So far personally I am leaning towards the first choice. Others may have a better option, being more self actualized and set, may give much more to the children, but they to have to make sacrifices. Unless they are living in a tribe of hunters and can leave their children at the mercy of natural selection.
To have children can go in more than physical way also. As Chu wrote about channeling the mother instincts by offering nurturing to others is quite inspiring and worth while. While physically an individual is limited to the amount of children she can conceive, having spiritual offsprings are more limitless. Spiritual offsprings I mean people who we help to learn, people on the step below or those who find value in that which we have to share. Spiritual offspring in the sense of channelling those creative sexual energies further by learning and teaching those who are in need. Ofcourse it is not necessarily limited in the sense of teachings. I use that as an example. There has been many teachers in our history who had students, and those students where like children to the teacher. Then those students took what they learned and shared with others further into the future. So our descendants might not necessarily be from the same biological line but more spiritual. What if it is in the sense of knowledge?
Tribal unit?
Knowledge changing DNA?
Soul incarnation in later life due to certain information?

So yeah to conclude, we didn't have anything better when we came so the same probably goes to our children. The was know perfect options to choose from. If there is something divine in an artist, one of the reflections of that would be making the best out of that which is given. If one chooses to have children I think as many did here in this thread, is wise to consider pros and cons, whys and why nots. Not the least the amount of energy it requires. For some people maybe not in this forum was the best choice actually , is to have children because they themselves don't have anything except to give offsprings, feed them in hope that they will be in greater service than their parents. Other may have another path in their life and for them there is much more logical sense and satisfaction in bringing the spiritual offsprings in to the world, what ever way that may be, shape and form, path and destiny. In the spirit Chu wrote it. And those who do have children for the very least they will learn about themselves not the less than otherwise.
 
Thank you for your enlightening post, @DianaRose94. It's a bit OT, but I looked into sodium butyrate as it seems to help against anxiety and found the following article that seems to suggest that this supplement helps kids who have autism and suffer from anxiousness. In case there are forum members here with kids/family members who have autism and are interested in learning more about the role of supplements here is the article:
Article Summary
  • Targeting the gut-brain axis to manage anxiousness in individuals with autism is an increasingly popular approach that expands treatment possibilities.
  • Butyric acid supplementation might be preferable to magnesium and probiotic treatments owing to its unique mechanism of action.
  • Modern butyric acid supplements, such as ProButyrate and AuRx, allow for rapid results while maintaining high tolerability for ASD individuals.
Many caregivers know all too well the feeling of helplessness that arises from seeing a loved one with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) suffering from acute anxiousness, particularly if the source of that anxiousness remains elusive. Even in those individuals who are highly independent, episodes of anxiousness can quickly cause functionality to deteriorate, causing the individual to experience a drastic reduction in quality of life.

Unfortunately, anxiousness episodes can be difficult to manage, especially when paired with symptoms like social withdrawal, deficits of speech, and obsessive behaviors that are often present in autistic individuals. Soothing techniques, such as spending time with a therapeutic animal, massage, or talking through fears might not be suitable for some autistic individuals, and caregivers are understandably hesitant to use medications like benzodiazepines and SSRIs due to their potential side effects. In addition, psychotherapeutic approaches like cognitive behavioral therapy can be difficult to implement effectively with individuals with ASD and it can take time to see results.

Now, a growing body of research suggests there might be another way to address anxiousness in autism: by targeting the gut-brain axis. It is widely recognized that acute anxiousness can contribute to the gastrointestinal (GI) disturbances associated with autism, which are notoriously detrimental to well-being and quality of life.

Indeed, most people are familiar to some extent with the influence of anxiousness on the gut, from manifesting merely as “butterflies in the stomach” to severe gastrointestinal distress. However, the gut can also be a source of anxiousness in and of itself due to the complex, bidirectional relationship between the gastrointestinal tract and the central nervous system. This relationship is known as the gut-brain axis.

The major nerve of the gut-brain axis is the vagus nerve, which refers information regarding the position and comfort of the viscera to the brain. Importantly, the gut-brain axis also relates information regarding satiety and immunological threats in the gut via innervation of the vagus nerve. To refer information regarding these immunological threats, the vagus nerve becomes innervated by inflammation in the gut.

This means that an out of balance inflammatory response in the gut can lead to repeated activation of the vagus nerve, leading to a corresponding activation of the recipient regions in the brain. In cases of chronic inflammatory response imbalance, the chronic activation of the vagus nerve might subsequently lead to acute anxiousness because the excessive activation is referred to other areas of the brain. Autistic individuals might be particularly vulnerable to this phenomenon, because the excess propionic acid build-up experienced by many can cause significant disruptions in the gut microbiome.

In individuals with ASD, symptoms deriving from the gut-brain axis can be difficult to recognize, and bouts of acute anxiousness caused by gastrointestinal symptoms might, therefore, seem to be without cause. But research is revealing that participants with gastrointestinal problems are seven percent more likely to experience social problems and 20 percent more likely to experience affective issues like anxiousness. Thus, GI symptoms have the potential to significantly aggravate an autistic individual’s anxiousness and reduce overall quality of life.

As such, controlling the impact of anxiousness on the gut, and vice versa, is critical for individuals and caregivers who want their loved ones to be as comfortable as possible. A growing number of consumers are now turning to nutritional supplements that seek to address anxiousness by supporting gut health.* But although there are several such nutritional supplements on the market, only butyric acid might provide truly comprehensive support.*
[snip]
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See:
insights.tessmed.com

Supplements for Autism Anxiousness: Butyric Acid's Role - Tesseract

Targeting the gut-brain axis to manage anxiousness in individuals with autism is an increasingly popular approach that expands possibilities.
insights.tessmed.com insights.tessmed.com

Also, oxalates play a role in autism, see the following old thread:
cassiopaea.org

The Role of Oxalates in Autism and Chronic Disorders

A very insightful article which ties candida overgrowth, autism, heavy metal toxicity (mercury), etc. The Role of Oxalates in Autism and Chronic Disorders http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/1894-the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders.html A mummy that had been preserved...
cassiopaea.org cassiopaea.org

Interestingly, EO nutrition recommends amongst others butyrate for people who have issues with oxalate dumping:
 
Mariama said:
Thank you for your enlightening post, @DianaRose94. It's a bit OT, but I looked into sodium butyrate as it seems to help against anxiety and found the following article that seems to suggest that this supplement helps kids who have autism and suffer from anxiousness. In case there are forum members here with kids/family members who have autism and are interested in learning more about the role of supplements here is the article:

See:
insights.tessmed.com

Supplements for Autism Anxiousness: Butyric Acid's Role - Tesseract

Targeting the gut-brain axis to manage anxiousness in individuals with autism is an increasingly popular approach that expands possibilities.
insights.tessmed.com insights.tessmed.com

Also, oxalates play a role in autism, see the following old thread:
cassiopaea.org

The Role of Oxalates in Autism and Chronic Disorders

A very insightful article which ties candida overgrowth, autism, heavy metal toxicity (mercury), etc. The Role of Oxalates in Autism and Chronic Disorders http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/1894-the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders.html A mummy that had been preserved...
cassiopaea.org cassiopaea.org

Interestingly, EO nutrition recommends amongst others butyrate for people who have issues with oxalate dumping:
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That's informative. Thank you :)
 
Having children is not the problem but to feed them and cover all their needs that you can evaluate in the geographic place where you live what are your pros and cons to give you an example uncle Billi lives in Spain the water is not good is flooded with chemtrails and sometimes eats frogs but instead Tia Margaret lives in the mountains eats food in the mountains is fertile land and although she lives in a rural place the only thing to beware of is gossip as they say small town small hell big. .just like those examples there are countless and if we see it from your particular level of consciousness where you know how to "create your reality" things become lighter no matter if you have a crocodile as a neighbor also the Cs said it doesn't matter where you are BUT WHO YOU ARE..it doesn't make you smart or wise to read all the Gurdjieff books there is no difference if you are the popular one in the paleochristian forum it's all about breaking the shell you know...really break.


It's all about the rise.

 
Jimmy Ssaz said:
Having children is not the problem but to feed them and cover all their needs that you can evaluate in the geographic place where you live what are your pros and cons to give you an example uncle Billi lives in Spain the water is not good is flooded with chemtrails and sometimes eats frogs but instead Tia Margaret lives in the mountains eats food in the mountains is fertile land and although she lives in a rural place the only thing to beware of is gossip as they say small town small hell big. .just like those examples there are countless and if we see it from your particular level of consciousness where you know how to "create your reality" things become lighter no matter if you have a crocodile as a neighbor also the Cs said it doesn't matter where you are BUT WHO YOU ARE..it doesn't make you smart or wise to read all the Gurdjieff books there is no difference if you are the popular one in the paleochristian forum it's all about breaking the shell you know...really break.


It's all about the rise.

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Moreover, I tell you something, focus on yourself (my spirit cannot be broken even with all the elite against me, I keep going forward invincible, no matter if the demons are big or small, I am always in the fight, no matter the death or the defeats, I keep going forward because I have love and therefore I can do anything) never forget it, you will fight until the end of time for a true ideal!
 
stellar said:
I skimmed over your comment and read it as 'refuse'. :rolleyes:
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Now I can read ‘refuse’ as in garbage, trash, basura… Or ‘refuse’ as in I decline, no lo quiero, you gotta be kidding me. Or…both!

Oopsies. Refugee. Well the universe prompted a typo better than my own thoughts!
 
Joe said:
This is my take on it also. Think about it long and hard, talk about it as much as you can/need to, from both a practical and emotional pov. However long this process takes, engage in it consciously and deliberately. There should be no oblique comments or innuendo, all should be planned and open on this topic. The reason for all of that is to get both of you to the point where you can jointly come to a definitive decision, a decision where there is little or no chance of there being serious 'second thoughts', recriminations and resentment etc.

Is it possible to engage this type of honest, open, indepth, periodic discussion about the issue such that it brings both of you to a point where you can make a final decision on it and go with and no looking back?
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hlat said:
This baby decision should be resolved for good before getting married.


We were not either when we decided to have our first baby. But my wife knew it was time, and we were married, so it was my responsibility as husband to give my wife what she needed. Now with hindsight, I can't imagine not having my children and I would not want to make a different decision.
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I've kept these words in mind those last months. We continued discussing it since then and now the wedding is imminent for us, it will be the First of July. It was a good advice to make a final decision about it before the wedding. It helped me to have a deadline. I've been examining it from all the angles I could think of, and continuously ended up in gloomy and depressing thought loops. So I decided to exit the thought loops by changing my perspective.

It's been a long and diffuse process, thinking about it alone on the road during hours of driving for work. It's the hardest dilemma I've been faced with in this life, and never have I felt that much weight over the freedom of choice and responsibility it involves in both cases.
Lys really tried hard to accept my initial will not to have babies, yet I've seen the toll it's been on her, and I know she would have respected that even though she was slowly dying out due to this sacrifice. It's hard to choose the right sacrifices. When I announced to her that I decided to have babies, she instantly revived. Marriage should enrich people, not fade them. I was certainly feeling like I was depriving her of an experience she needs to feel whole. She just needs it and I want her to blossom and thrive.

Between having her drown in regrets and despair and having babies in this mad but fascinating world, I made my choice, even though I feel like there is no optimal choice here. Just a choice, which considering our own unique situation, seems to be the best of all choices.
And actually, when I started to contemplate the possibility of being a father, I realized that I certainly need that experience too for a wide variety of reasons. This is a definitive decision, for which I am now all in and will never look back. It brings me joy too.

We now rely on DCM for what happens next.
 
Starshine said:
I've kept these words in mind those last months. We continued discussing it since then and now the wedding is imminent for us, it will be the First of July. It was a good advice to make a final decision about it before the wedding. It helped me to have a deadline. I've been examining it from all the angles I could think of, and continuously ended up in gloomy and depressing thought loops. So I decided to exit the thought loops by changing my perspective.

It's been a long and diffuse process, thinking about it alone on the road during hours of driving for work. It's the hardest dilemma I've been faced with in this life, and never have I felt that much weight over the freedom of choice and responsibility it involves in both cases.
Lys really tried hard to accept my initial will not to have babies, yet I've seen the toll it's been on her, and I know she would have respected that even though she was slowly dying out due to this sacrifice. It's hard to choose the right sacrifices. When I announced to her that I decided to have babies, she instantly revived. Marriage should enrich people, not fade them. I was certainly feeling like I was depriving her of an experience she needs to feel whole. She just needs it and I want her to blossom and thrive.

Between having her drown in regrets and despair and having babies in this mad but fascinating world, I made my choice, even though I feel like there is no optimal choice here. Just a choice, which considering our own unique situation, seems to be the best of all choices.
And actually, when I started to contemplate the possibility of being a father, I realized that I certainly need that experience too for a wide variety of reasons. This is a definitive decision, for which I am now all in and will never look back. It brings me joy too.

We now rely on DCM for what happens next.
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I've arrived at a very, very similar place. It's been difficult but there's a certain peace that comes from 'going with the flow'. What happens next is mostly outside our control. Best of luck to you (and me!).
 
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