What are your thoughts on having children?

[BHelmet]

Seems like a bit of an assumption there. How do we know that 50% of humanity isn't capable of the appropriate soul matches and it's the epigenetic influences of a particular soul that determine the level of receivership capability? A good question I like to ask myself sometimes is, "To what level is what I've written conditioned by materialist assumptions?" You can discover surprising things about your beliefs this way.

Well OK since you are interested in materialist assumptions, let's look at it that way. On any given day there are X births all of which are opportunities to be born. But let's eliminate the OP's which are what, half now? And you say how do we know that half of humanity isn't capable of providing fertile ground for a given soul. So, now we are down to a 25% chance already. And how far of a stretch is it to say that for certain types of souls half of those are just not made of the right karmic stuff to match up? (and how many types are there? we don't know but I think Gurdjieff may have alluded to such a thing) Now we are at 12.5% minimum or, getting close to a 10-1 difference.

That said, It is true I didn't define "far fewer". My basic point is that for some souls, the field is narrow, especially if it involves some kind of karma that involves specific souls. (and how can any soul know, once the veils are in place, what the hell is really going on?) So, for me, it's an open question and good luck and may the Holy Spirit be with you in making those choices. Lastly, I am saying this from experience, not materialist assumptions.

 

[Ryan]

Well OK since you are interested in materialist assumptions, let's look at it that way. On any given day there are X births all of which are opportunities to be born. But let's eliminate the OP's which are what, half now? And you say how do we know that half of humanity isn't capable of providing fertile ground for a given soul. So, now we are down to a 25% chance already.

By "50% of humanity", I was referring to non-OP humans. You've halved it an extra time.

And how far of a stretch is it to say that for certain types of souls half of those are just not made of the right karmic stuff to match up?

Why would a soul incarnate if it doesn't have the right "karmic stuff" to match up? And what is "karmic stuff"? That's kind of a loose definition.

My basic point is that for some souls, the field is narrow, especially if it involves some kind of karma that involves specific souls.

I think you've narrowed the field unnecessarily with assumptions, and even more assumptions regarding karma.

Lastly, I am saying this from experience, not materialist assumptions.

Why would you be making assumptions if you had experience otherwise? That doesn't really make sense to me, unless your experience was of the sort that generates and strengthens assumptions.

 

[lilyalic]

Well OK since you are interested in materialist assumptions, let's look at it that way. On any given day there are X births all of which are opportunities to be born. But let's eliminate the OP's which are what, half now? And you say how do we know that half of humanity isn't capable of providing fertile ground for a given soul. So, now we are down to a 25% chance already. And how far of a stretch is it to say that for certain types of souls half of those are just not made of the right karmic stuff to match up? (and how many types are there? we don't know but I think Gurdjieff may have alluded to such a thing) Now we are at 12.5% minimum or, getting close to a 10-1 difference.

That said, It is true I didn't define "far fewer". My basic point is that for some souls, the field is narrow, especially if it involves some kind of karma that involves specific souls. (and how can any soul know, once the veils are in place, what the hell is really going on?) So, for me, it's an open question and good luck and may the Holy Spirit be with you in making those choices. Lastly, I am saying this from experience, not materialist assumptions.

Well maybe the souls don't know, but I'm pretty sure they get to where they're supposed to, and get to where they know on some level they'll learn the lessons needed this time around.

I don't think we are able to contemplate choices the souls make with our 3d outlook on things. I just trust that souls, which are "higher up" in a sense, know what they're doing much better than "we" do. Lessons here are just manifested physically but they're different up there in the soul realm.

 

[Fluffy]

You must have some wants and needs that you're aware of, and seeing as you are the one pregnant, very much need to take yourself into consideration when making this decision. Not doing so is depriving yourself and your family, imo. I don't have children, but speaking from something I saw from my mom, she tries really hard to be the all-sacrificing mother nowadays where she doesn't take care of her own needs and wants, and hasn't for a long time, if ever. I have my thoughts about why she does that, but I've often thought the best thing she could possibly do for herself and everyone else, is take herself into consideration in an authentic way. Sending the message to herself that she has value and worth as a human being, and acting on that, also sends the message to the rest of us and lessens the burden of her 'sacrifice' that we all inevitably pick up on.

Your choice isn't an easy one, but whatever you do end up deciding upon doesn't have to be the end of the world. Because I get the impression that whether you have the baby or get an abortion, that you've already established in your mind that this is a burden because you got pregnant in the first place. But sometimes life throws you unexpected curve balls and all you can do is make the best of it, wherever that leads to.

Hopefully one day you realize that doing your best is good enough.

Hi, I’m here, only just, I’m so incredibly tired and spare in the head, the hormones have definitely kicked in like crazy and I’m on the emotional roller coaster, I feel sick- I’m angry all of sudden for no apparent reason then it goes and I want to joke about and be silly, I feel like a madman.

I’ll attempt to reply to you all over the next few days.

What I know about what I want is by experiencing what I don’t want, the real worry in doing things for others and not considering my own wants and needs is resentment that could show up at anytime- years down the road even, you comment really got me thinking ‘what do I want’. I’ve never really known, if I thought I knew it would last a few weeks before it became a distant ship smoke on the horizon and then disappear like it never was. My life has been a search for lord knows what!!!

The biological impulses are so strong, it does feel like a heavy burden, skewing my thinking, driving me to make decisions that I wouldn’t have considered if I wasn’t in this position. I said in a brief post a few days ago that I had decided I can and am willing to do this, let nature run its course, I haven’t backtracked yet it’s very scary and overwhelming, heightened because I feel quite sick, crazy and tired, wowsers, soooo tired.

Nothing is set in stone, we still have a few tests to do, an ultrasound next Monday.
For now I am surrendering to the will of the universe.
I don’t know how this jibes with others but I tend to think that I don’t really do anything, I’m just the experiencer for the higher forces (higher self, cosmic mind, whatever you like to call it) at play and whatever happens just happens through me.
I watch and observe and make decisions based on the nudging through intuition, synchronicity, knowledge etc…. I’m flat lining a bit here at the moment though, there doesn’t seem to be much going on.

I hope my best will be enough too.

 

[Fluffy]

Hi fluffy,

Well, let me first say that it is ultimately a personal choice that shouldn't be made to please anyone, to undergo the procedure or not will only change your life, and that of your family. I think taking everything you have posted into consideration is a good idea, but I would be wary of living too much in the stress of how wrong things could go, give yourself a chance to see things in a balance manner.

Not to push you in any direction, but so that whichever choice you make will end up being made in the best frame of mind possible.

I would probably discuss these things seriously and calmly with your partner, what does he want to do? discuss this with people who know you a bit better, and someone you can trust to give you honest advice. And perhaps most importantly, discuss it with your doctor, given your medical history and your age, I think you're in a very different place mentally, emotionally and biologically and that all factors in, for your own health quality of life for you and everyone around you.

Perhaps the best way to put it, would be that my advice would be to make as well informed a decision as you can, and to include your partner in the conversation, so that you're not making a panicked decision, but you're at peace with the implications of whatever way you decide things to go.

Hi Alejo,

Thank you for your comments.

Yes it’s true that health and age are a worry, a big concern is post natal depression which I had to some degree or other with my three other babies, and it’s a terrible thing to have so many high hopes and aspirations for how we’d like to parent and then feel like we are failing and unable to give the way we imagined. Some things I do differently now that will help include a better understanding of diet and nutrition, cold showers, pushing through the ‘I don’t want to’ and other defeating self talk, long walks in nature rather than flogging myself for hours at the gym, breathing properly… I am quite a highly strung person and I carry a lot of tension in my body. I could learn more techniques to alleviate physical stress.

I’ve learned to be less critical of myself, if I ever had an enemy it was definitely me, no one can hate us like we can hate ourself. I was a very unjust judge and I could never live up to my own expectations. Learning to be less harsh toward myself has also made me less of a critic towards others.

Ive been taking a very slow approach with talking to my partner, I can easily overload him with my thoughts and feelings so it’s just little bits at a time or I risk shutting him down and getting nowhere. I like to talk, it helps me process, he likes to process over time slowly. Letting him come to me is a better way to go, we are both big egos that can clash over the slightest things. It’s taken 25 years for me to learn to back off and be patient with him. Slow learner or what!!!!

As for the doctor, well that just caused a whole heap of stress, I hadn’t seen him for about 6 years… he knows a thing or two about me and my beliefs, he’s a very good obstetrician and GP according to the standard and I think he will accommodate me well but it makes me very uncomfortable.
Masks are still required in clinics and hospitals here, I haven’t worn a mask ever- I wrote myself an exemption which is acceptable but after sitting in the clinic waiting for my appointment, everyone staring at me like I was a freak, I was very stressed, blood pressure was high, and that’s when I had a bit of cramping and spotting. Nothing else was mentioned re vaccines or other silliness so I hope he will continue to support me.

 

[Fluffy]

It is a great school even in the present state of entropy in the world and serves as a catalyst of experiences so that everything is in perfect balance otherwise nothing would exist there would not be all kinds of lessons so the lotus flower grows well in the mud and "flowers grow best in the manure".

I don’t know about perfect balance, our freewill can create all kinds of imbalance. What I do know for me in particular is that I do not learn a thing unless I’m under some kind of duress and struggle. If it’s too easy I’ll just float around in lala land and get nothing done and go nowhere.
So I suppose I thrive best in a difficult environment and challenging circumstances, if I spend long enough in the doo doo there are great rewards.

 

[Alejo]

Ive been taking a very slow approach with talking to my partner, I can easily overload him with my thoughts and feelings so it’s just little bits at a time or I risk shutting him down and getting nowhere. I like to talk, it helps me process, he likes to process over time slowly. Letting him come to me is a better way to go, we are both big egos that can clash over the slightest things. It’s taken 25 years for me to learn to back off and be patient with him. Slow learner or what!!!!

I'm sorry if I may be too slow, but.. you mean that you're taking things slow with your partner as to what decision to make? you may have mentioned it before, if so, I do apologize, but is he aware that you guys are expecting?

I agree in principle with taking things slow, but at the same time, some things are time sensitive, and this is one of those things, and discussing things with him sooner rather than later might actually help you through the stress.

my two cents.

 

[Alejo]

Well maybe the souls don't know, but I'm pretty sure they get to where they're supposed to, and get to where they know on some level they'll learn the lessons needed this time around.

I don't think we are able to contemplate choices the souls make with our 3d outlook on things. I just trust that souls, which are "higher up" in a sense, know what they're doing much better than "we" do. Lessons here are just manifested physically but they're different up there in the soul realm.

It's kind of how I see it as well, and trying to calculate the odds of a successful setting up of a karmic life path for a given soul, well... I don't know if it's possible. One could create both hypothetical scenarios, equally convincing, for why one or the other is a great idea.

At which point, it still comes down to a choice, personal choice, whether to bring a child into this world or not.

 

[mkrnhr]

I think speculating about what we don't know isn't very fruitful. Let's sat a soul is matched to the genetics that receives them. What comes first? At our 3d level and linear time we can imagine that a certain combination of dna is first fulfilled and then a soul chooses to incarnate into that body. But what if that dna combination is realized because a soul have chosen "outside of time as we know it" to incarnate into that body? We can't be sure either way on the details, especially without a complete knowledge of dna and how it works on the level of the soul in between densities.
All we're left with are heuristic choices. In the hypothetical scenario in which I had a wife with the same wavelength so to speak (maybe in another universe or something), and given the current situation, I would choose not to have children right now in these uncertain times of transition. Any adult knows how not to conceive babies while being married so no details are needed on that front. If however a child comes anyway, because everything in life is not under one's control, I'd choose to take the responsibility of bringing him or her to life, and to give him or her the best chance at a good and meaningful life, either by raising him or her to the best of our capacities, or if not possible for some reason, by providing a family that would fulfill that role. That how I see it but it's hypothetical anyway.

 

[Fluffy]

I'm sorry if I may be too slow, but.. you mean that you're taking things slow with your partner as to what decision to make? you may have mentioned it before, if so, I do apologize, but is he aware that you guys are expecting?

I agree in principle with taking things slow, but at the same time, some things are time sensitive, and this is one of those things, and discussing things with him sooner rather than later might actually help you through the stress.

my two cents.

Just to clear that up, he knows, I came racing out of the bathroom with a positive pregnancy test in my hand… I meant taking it slow as I’m not pressing him to talk and waiting for him to approach me.

 

[Jenn]

Fluffy, I can only imagine what a difficult decision it is for you and your partner to make. There's been some really helpful feedback already so I don't have much to add, just take your time, maybe meditate on it for more clarity, and when you're partner is ready to talk about it hopefully you can come to an agreement. Once you've made the decision try to accept that it was the right decision at that time.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I'm sorry if I missed your reply, but have you addressed the possibility of putting the baby up for adoption if you don't want an abortion?

 

[Chu]

What I know about what I want is by experiencing what I don’t want, the real worry in doing things for others and not considering my own wants and needs is resentment that could show up at anytime- years down the road even, you comment really got me thinking ‘what do I want’. I’ve never really known, if I thought I knew it would last a few weeks before it became a distant ship smoke on the horizon and then disappear like it never was. My life has been a search for lord knows what!!!

Whether you decide to have this child or not, that is something you can work on. They are not mutually exclusive, I think. In fact, I would think that working on that would make you a better mom, for the children you already have, and for the one to come if you choose to have him/her. It's a good thing to set a good example of boundaries, me thinks, and it's never too late. We all struggle with that to one extent of another, so you're not alone in that. All the best with your decision!

Something you could try, FWIW: think of 5 or 6 people you admire in life. It can be relatives, friends, former teachers, famous people, historical characters, etc. What are their values and traits that you admire the most? What positive do/did they add to the world? That to me, is often the closest I get to the difficult "what do I want", because it gets closer to the values I hold dear in life, and the "legacy" I want to leave one day. It has to be more precise than what we sometimes imagine (or a single "need"), but very often don't stick to because it's not in line with our core values. OSIT. Maybe in doing that exercise or something similar, your decision could become a bit clearer. If a child is a source of ressentment and getting further from those goals/values, then no. If a child is part of those, then yes. Well, I know, it's a bit simplistic, but I hope it helps a little.

 

[Tauriel]

As I said in my reply to Joe, paraphrasing here- being a mum doesn’t come easy to me as I’m not naturally inclined that way. It’s really hard on me, so it could be true that I’m being asked to step up…. Or it could be a trap so I do nothing useful with myself because I’m too burnt out….

I feel you...

I did not want a baby, it was absolutely not part of what I had in mind.

I never wanted kids before I met my now ex-husband. When we met he wanted them with all his heart.
I was using him as an anchor for I was so messed up, hated myself and felt insecure about these 'big decisions' in ones life. He on the other hand seemed to be so sure about it all so I followed him in lack of knowning what I want.

From how you describe yourself I got the impression that our setting here is of a similiar kind.
I'm not a very motherly woman either and myself and life itself messed up my kids accordingly.
They still became fine beings in spite of traumatic experiences. My daughter has to struggle more than my son but I think not more than most people.
I gave my best which I always judged as not being enough though.
Would I want to try again? No!
Do I regret having had them? No, not at all.

Lately when I don't have an answer about what to do and find myself moving in circles listening to all the different 'I's', also attachments for sure, I started to give it to DCM, saying, "Okay, my little brain cannot find an answer, so I give it to you to provide it for me." and then I step back.

As Laura said, noone can advise you in this since you have to live with your decision for the rest of your life.
I honestly do not know what I would choose in your situation and I also suspect that there is no right, nor a wrong decision just a choice.

I also found whenever I force myself to act more STO than STS on a bigger scale than just a favour or kind interaction I often find myself in a new predicament very soon. Suddenly there are requirements I don't want to fulfill, expectations I'm unwilling to meet.
So I withdraw. Would I call this 'avoidance'? No. I call it, 'being true to myself'.
If this is who I am right now with all my weakness and ignorance, fine. I accept myself as I am at this moment and move from there. Babysteps.
What use is it to know about the top floor, when you try to fly there instead of stepping up floor by floor.

I hope what I wrote is not too convoluted.
I send you my love though which cannot be misinterpreted.

 

[Gaby]

Hello Fluffy,

Perhaps you can do dream work about it? You can learn something about your relationships and about yourself regardless of the decision you make or how it goes. After your 40s, the chances of conceiving are of about less than 1-3%. If you're closer to 45 and never had children before, the chances are effectively zero. Your chance might have tipped closer to 3% thanks to your prior conceptions.

A good opportunity for recapitulating and doing dream work, regardless of the final decision.