What are your thoughts on having children?

I’m not a motherly type mum, the instincts everyone talks about aren’t fully developed or I just do it differently.
I don’t in any way crave or desire to be around young people. I find them difficult. So having a baby would be a tax on me that I’m not sure I’m interested in or capable of. My partner on the other hand is brilliant with small children.
You've not brought up the possibility of having the child and giving it up for adoption. Considering what you write above, that seems like an idea worth considering.
 
Fluffy, I'm sorry that you are in such difficult and painful situation. It is not an easy choice for sure and whatever you choose may entail serious consequences. So you really need to weigh your options very thoroughly and carefully before making a decision.

We can only share our thoughts and observations, but ultimately only you can decide which way to go. Only you know all the details and nuances of your situation. You still have time to make a choice, so try to be very honest with yourself and find the answer within yourself.

Any decision in this situation may change your life significantly, so it is important that you choose independently, not under anyone's influence or pressure, but only what feels right for you in your particular case.

Hope that helps, fwiw.
 
A soul that wants to enter this reality has plenty of opportunities. Me choosing not to have a child will not hinder that, IMO, nor does that choice "thwart the free will of the unborn soul." That sounds like a narrative. Also, the discussion wasn't about aborting a baby, but about the choice to procreate.

Empty words to a person who lives a difficult, painful existence. I bet they don't feel like "everything is in perfect balance."
I totaly agree with this. Dear Fluffy, I wish you strenght to decide whats best for you in this situation.
Only for you. Considering all possible scenarios in the long term.
Respecting your partners feelings and wishes is ok, but you are the main character in this story.
Love. :hug2:
Take care.
 
Empty words to a person who lives a difficult, painful existence. I bet they don't feel like "everything is in perfect balance."
They are empty words from your perspective and all those aligned to your way of thinking as opposed to my way of thinking so the difficult, suffering brings with it learning depending on the individual for progress and improvement of consciousness just like a sword after being subjected to fire to have an extraordinary edge. The most difficult situations that Laura has gone through have served her and she has had to suffer from time to time but she has acquired greater consciousness and intellect. The same happens in shamanism, the candidate goes through many initiatory ordeals in dreams and is taken from time to time to the darkest places in that way in his psyche "the rocks are broken", genes are gradually activated and he acquires a new vision because he already knows the devil, so he is already able to know what is love and what is not love, all the demons have assaulted him, it has been a physical, psychic and soul suffering but he comes back renewed and with more strength as the saying goes "what doesn't kill you gives you more strength".
 
Bringing a child into the world is simply an idea and that idea is conjugated to many factors: biological (hormonal) by instinct of survival of the human species, mental etc ... and that idea may or may not result ... it will depend on other factors such as: virility, partner etc ... finally you can consider other factors such as environmental and parenting and geography because ... animals have babies in more or less safe places and even then you can not be safe in a world that is not paradise but
 
Figured I would post this here, since it is vaguely related to the topic.

Garrison Keillor's daily email 1/6/23 states: "Today is the birthday of poet Khalil Gibran, born in the mountain village in Bsharri, Lebanon (1883). He lived in Boston, and that was where Alfred A. Knopf met him, who published Gibran's book The Prophet in 1923. It didn't sell well at first, but gradually gained a readership, becoming especially popular in the 1960s; it was eventually translated into more than 30 languages. Gibran is now the third-best-selling poet in history, after William Shakespeare and Lao-Tzu.

[Keillor notes that] The Prophet is often quoted at
weddings --
"Love one another, but make not a bond of love:​
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls"​
baptisms --
"Your children are not your children.​
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.​
They come through you but not from you,​
And though they are with you they belong not to you"​
and funerals --
"When you are sorrowful look again in​
your heart, and you shall see that in truth​
you are weeping for that which has been​
your delight""​
Gibran seems to consider the individuation of souls, each on their own voyage/passage/paths, which intersect here and there, either by chance or choice or a choreographed combination of the two. When I read Gibran, I feel as though our lives are a movie, the script written spontaneously as our film unwinds, and the quality of the script is dependent on very basic ideas we hold. When our ideas coincide with Divine Principles (for example, truth, joy, health, balance, freedom, harmony, peace, love, intelligence) the quality of the film improves. Choices that we've made can be reflected upon, re-evaluated, they can be understood, but they are not to be blamed or wallowed in. Our movie plot has many torturous turns on the trail and in the adventure as a whole, but we are not here to torture ourselves. We are here to call on Divine Mind, listen, be receptive, navigate the perils, and rise above them with equanimity. Or as one author puts it, "......We have a choice of two things: the way of suffering or the way of wisdom."
 
Bringing a child into the world is simply an idea and that idea is conjugated to many factors: biological (hormonal) by instinct of survival of the human species, mental etc ... and that idea may or may not result ... it will depend on other factors such as: virility, partner etc ... finally you can consider other factors such as environmental and parenting and geography because ... animals have babies in more or less safe places and even then you can not be safe in a world that is not paradise but
But then there's also the parents, what about their own suffering and lessons? in the scenario that the suffering of the world would represent the conditions for the soul of the baby to learn what it came here to learn, then sure... have babies.

But there's more in that situation, what if the suffering of learning can come from refusing to give in to biological drives and learn to live in a more conscious and self aware mode? That's also a factor.

At which point, it becomes a choice.. self serving in both ends IMO, I think that's one of the first illusions that one ought to admit. No one decides to procreate because "that one soul really needs to come into the world". People decide to procreate, for the most part, because they want to.

That isn't to say that love isn't real in these relationships, or that meaningful and transformative moments don't occur in the mother/father son/daughter interaction. But what I mean is that, spinning the suffering of a newborn as beneficial for him or her, because of it inevitability, as the reason one decides to procreate is counter productive at best.
 
Nobody can tell you what to do; the decision is yours to make. And whatever decision you make, you will have to live with it. I can only share my thoughts and experiences.

I very much wanted to have another baby when I was 45 but Ark would not allow it. He felt that my health was too fragile - and possibly it was at the time. But now, both of us kind of regret that we did not take the opportunity while I was still able to have babies. Now, I am well past menopause and that has its own set of issues including the necessity for hormone therapy for several problems that manifested.

My cousin did have a baby later in life and it did wonders for her hair, nails, skin, youthfulness in general. In fact, I think it even prolonged her youthful markers because she took care of herself during that pregnancy.

For some people, a pregnancy can solve or even heal a host of issues, not least of which is endometriosis. I suffered from that for years and was cured by my fifth pregnancy. In fact, my last pregnancy was the only one where I felt really good the whole time! That baby was born when I was 39.

Another thing: on the one hand, I am sorry that the world is such a messy place now and that my kids have to deal with all of that, and will continue to have to deal with it when I'm gone. But I also know that living in this world gives them opportunities for soul growth they would not otherwise have. It balances out in the end.

So, like I said, no one can really advise you here, but for what it is worth, the above are just my musings on the topic.
 
Nobody can tell you what to do; the decision is yours to make. And whatever decision you make, you will have to live with it. I can only share my thoughts and experiences.

I very much wanted to have another baby when I was 45 but Ark would not allow it. He felt that my health was too fragile - and possibly it was at the time. But now, both of us kind of regret that we did not take the opportunity while I was still able to have babies. Now, I am well past menopause and that has its own set of issues including the necessity for hormone therapy for several problems that manifested.

My cousin did have a baby later in life and it did wonders for her hair, nails, skin, youthfulness in general. In fact, I think it even prolonged her youthful markers because she took care of herself during that pregnancy.

For some people, a pregnancy can solve or even heal a host of issues, not least of which is endometriosis. I suffered from that for years and was cured by my fifth pregnancy. In fact, my last pregnancy was the only one where I felt really good the whole time! That baby was born when I was 39.

Another thing: on the one hand, I am sorry that the world is such a messy place now and that my kids have to deal with all of that, and will continue to have to deal with it when I'm gone. But I also know that living in this world gives them opportunities for soul growth they would not otherwise have. It balances out in the end.

So, like I said, no one can really advise you here, but for what it is worth, the above are just my musings on the topic.
Whenever or almost whenever I read your opinions I think wow why don't you find people like this all the time maybe you are the one to find the Grail and not because I think so I think many souls would agree with that.
 
A soul that wants to enter this reality has plenty of opportunities. Me choosing not to have a child will not hinder that, IMO, nor does that choice "thwart the free will of the unborn soul." That sounds like a narrative. Also, the discussion wasn't about aborting a baby, but about the choice to procreate.
There are plenty of opportunities, yes, but there are far fewer genetic soul matches that suit a given soul’s evolution. There are also karmic connections and agreements and crosses to bear that can supersede logic.

A person “choosing” not to have a child may not thwart a soul from being born but it can thwart the specific potential between the unborn soul and the specific living soul who says “no” to involvement in the process.

The “choice to procreate” isn’t always (or even often?) a conscious choice. Sh*t happens, as they say and the consequences must be dealt with. And the “choice to procreate” doesn’t always equal what you might tell yourself you want to create. That’s why I brought up abortion: it is a possible response to unconscious procreation. But the larger point is the idea that the adults on the ground are sitting around their coffee musing over the pros and cons of having children and 100% in control of the process. There are great and mysterious forces at work which sometimes are not fully understood until long after the fact. That isn’t a rationalized narrative, that’s a fact.
 
There are plenty of opportunities, yes, but there are far fewer genetic soul matches that suit a given soul’s evolution. There are also karmic connections and agreements and crosses to bear that can supersede logic.

A person “choosing” not to have a child may not thwart a soul from being born but it can thwart the specific potential between the unborn soul and the specific living soul who says “no” to involvement in the process.

The “choice to procreate” isn’t always (or even often?) a conscious choice. Sh*t happens, as they say and the consequences must be dealt with. And the “choice to procreate” doesn’t always equal what you might tell yourself you want to create. That’s why I brought up abortion: it is a possible response to unconscious procreation. But the larger point is the idea that the adults on the ground are sitting around their coffee musing over the pros and cons of having children and 100% in control of the process. There are great and mysterious forces at work which sometimes are not fully understood until long after the fact. That isn’t a rationalized narrative, that’s a fact.
Sometimes I joke about someone who's Mom was late for brain sharing but it would be soul sharing and we are fortunate to have a soul I guess or is the soul built? However to be floating in the ether as a cloud of gas and assign us the blessed task of entering a body is not done by just anyone, you must have a soul and having a soul is proof against all...imagine if we could create a new universe with other different laws like flying all over the space super force powers of all kinds and save many extra-terrestrials that ask for the help of "heroes".
 
I will get back to you all, thoughtfully, when my mind is clear.
It seems no sooner that I had decided I’m able and willing to bring another child to this world that some bleeding has started.
I’m just trying my best to stay calm and relaxed.
Forgive me if I take a few more days.
 
There are plenty of opportunities, yes, but there are far fewer genetic soul matches that suit a given soul’s evolution.
Seems like a bit of an assumption there. How do we know that 50% of humanity isn't capable of the appropriate soul matches and it's the epigenetic influences of a particular soul that determine the level of receivership capability? A good question I like to ask myself sometimes is, "To what level is what I've written conditioned by materialist assumptions?" You can discover surprising things about your beliefs this way.
 
Dear Fluffy,

It IS a hard choice to make and the decision is all yours. We cannot tell you what to do as you will be the one living with the results.

I'm sure that you took all into account (your age, finances, coping with the current world situation etc....) and you already got great feedback from others.

I just want to say something regarding abortion. It may sound easy - but it isn't. I still cry because of it (actually sobbed a few days ago as I remembered yet again) and it all happened 7 years ago. So this feeling of loss and quilt never went away, at least not in my case. I have a lump and chest pain now that I'm writing this....

I don't want to say that you shouldn't do that, it is your decision, I just shared how I feel 7 years after...

:hug:
 
Hi @Fluffy,

I'm sorry about the difficult position you've been in. You've definitely had great feedback from others, and ultimately you know your life circumstances well enough to make an informed decision. I also hope the bleeding isn't a serious complication.

I would like to share some thoughts and experiences with you that I hope you might consider in case they could help you live a better life. I think a big part of your lesson plan is learning to let go of the depression. And it is possible, no matter how much the thoughts and memories may tell you otherwise. It may be helpful to ask yourself, "If I didn't have depression, what would I want my life to look like?"

I've never experienced a pregnancy or raised children, but I've experienced depression to varying degrees of severity for most of my life and can understand how you feel. I can also relate to some of the thoughts going through your head, like doubting myself a lot, thinking I'm too lazy or incapable of ever doing something useful, that I'm just too STS for things to get better, that I'm always going to be catching up to others and have nothing useful to say, that I've accepted I won't graduate to 4D because of how much I've screwed up my life, etc. etc. etc. And maybe I'd get short bursts of inspiration, that "Yes, I can do this, I can change my life!" and then the doubts would come in, I'd make mistakes, think I really can't do it and wonder why I thought I ever could with how my life has been.

I get the impression that you have been identifying with the depression; you think it is part of your identity by holding onto the label/diagnosis. Even if you're not currently experiencing an episode where you feel completely nonfunctional, the thought patterns are still there. And with how all these internet resources and psychologists view depression, that you won't get better unless you spend thousands of dollars on therapy, pills, hospitalization, electroconvulsive therapy, etc., and if they don't work then too bad, it's really hard not to think that you're just damaged and not going to get better.

In my case, I wasn't usually experiencing major depressive episodes. I could slog through life doing the bare minimum for others around me while still feeling like crap and thinking crap that this is just the way it is, that no one really understands, and that I just have to accept that I'll never feel happy because I have depression and it's a lifelong illness that won't get better. This was despite years of dietary changes, supplements, and seeking mental health resources. I've only been on antidepressants once after a suicide attempt when I was about 12, and all they did was numb me out for a bit, and in my late teens I decided I didn't want to get on the pill-popping train from all the side effects and testimonials from others saying the pills may or may not work.

I didn't start the slow process of getting out of that mindset until I read an article on SOTT some years ago that talked about how maybe we have misunderstood depression, that it is really a stress-based physical illness. And I apologize for not being able to find it, but I could relate to what it was saying, that my body is in a constant state of fight-flight-freeze, but mainly freeze. And when I paid attention to how my body felt, I could feel the tension and stiffness in my muscles and aches in my solar plexus and pressure around my head and body like I'm contracting inward when emotionally overwhelmed. And when I didn't pay attention to my body and just got wrapped up in the thoughts, the thoughts told me I felt dead inside, that I wasn't even a real person. Me not feeling happy wasn't just all in my head; I have a lot of stress stored up, and the thoughts exploit that!

Identifying with depression was the most disempowering thing I ever did to myself! Believing I could never get better or do anything useful because I'm cursed with the black dog of depression led me to not even try most of the time for years. What helped me start to get out of it was accepting that I feel all this stress in my body that others call depression, and that even though I may not experience positive emotions, I can still work with my body to do things for myself and others that help me live a relatively normal life. I don't need to feel good or happy to get chores done around the house, to be kind and helpful to others, to read and grow in knowledge, etc. And if I did feel that paralyzing feeling of "depression", I could focus on what my body was feeling, moving one finger at a time if necessary to gain momentum to get stuff done.

Now, why do I say "the thoughts" instead of "my thoughts"? Although I could accept that the depression was very physical, I still couldn't let go of identifying with the thoughts when they came up, usually after some emotional trigger. I thought it was me telling myself all these bad things and bringing up all the bad memories that "prove" I suck and that I'll never get better. And it's very easy to believe that when the thoughts use your inner voice and your traumatic memories.

I've recently started to let go of the idea that most thoughts that go through my head are my own. This idea has been discussed on the forum as the Negative Introject or the Predator's Mind, and learning about that has been helpful to many, but they didn't go far enough for me. The thoughts would twist the ideas around, like, "But it's still MY negative introject/predator's mind, it comes from MY narcissistic parents and trauma and wounding and genetics," and I would still identify with the thoughts and not be able to break out of highly emotionally charged ruminations. I needed to put more distance between myself and the thoughts, and have done so by working with the idea that these thoughts come from spirit attachments (as discussed in the Knowledge and Being videos) or even 4D STS entities looking for a snack. And when you've identified with depression for so long, you probably have a nice feeding tube for those hyperdimensional critters!

And how insidious it is of them to use your voice and your memories! And how clever their arguments are! A common recommendation is to just challenge the bad thoughts and they'll weaken over time. That did not work for me. In my worst ruminations, it's like talking to a demon straight out of Hostage to the Devil: they will always find a counterargument to convince you that you suck and are just a burden on others while draining your energy.

I have found it best to not directly engage the thoughts, to say, "This is definitely not me," and to focus on the sensations in my body to detach from the thoughts. Some folks suggest doing pipe breathing and reciting the POTS until they go away, which has worked great for some, but if I'm stuck in a rumination and forget to do that, then just focusing on my body, no matter how shallow my breathing is, helps disengage from that.

And an indirect way to challenge these thoughts is to use that momentum you build by focusing on your body to get stuff done. You prove to yourself that you're not useless by brushing your teeth, smiling and acting polite to others (even if you don't feel happy), washing all the dirty dishes, decluttering the crap you've been looking at for several months, etc., depending on where you're at in life. Improving even 1% a day will have a big impact on your life and will lead you to a better future.

Another great tool in the toolbox comes from an Interview with Mel Robbins that Laura posted a few days ago. I highly recommend you watch the whole talk; she's a very engaging speaker! Robbins opens by saying motivation is garbage, and that you'll never feel like getting the things done that you know you want to get done because of how our brains are hardwired. It happens to everyone, not just folks experiencing depression. In her case, she struggled with anxiety and postnatal depression, and her life was going nowhere.

She decided to try out what she thought was a stupid idea: NASA is in her bedroom, and with the countdown of 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, she'd launch herself out of bed without giving herself time to think about it. And it worked. Counting down with 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 interrupts a part of the brain associated with hesitation and doubt and forces you to engage the prefrontal cortex to make decisions. She went from being anxious and unemployed and unable to get out of bed to becoming a CNN commentator and motivational speaker with a much better family life. And the tool has helped many others gradually improve their lives, too.

By no means do I feel "cured" or "normal" or full of vibrant Disney princess energy since taking these steps. It's all still a work in progress; I still feel a lot of tension in my body, and make mistakes and not get as much done as I'd like to. But I'm doing much better now than when I identified with the depression and let all the limiting thoughts and emotions take control of my life.

So, I hope some of that might help you in your life. And I apologize if I had misunderstood or made any incorrect assumptions about you when writing that. The last thing I want to do is make you feel worse. I wish you all the best and hope everything will work out.

And do keep sharing on the forum. We all need to stay connected to each other through networking, and I think by sharing we are sending a signal to the universe and to ourselves that we do want to improve and that we do have faith in the process and the universe.
 
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