What are your thoughts on having children?

[lilyalic]

As a man, I'm not supposed to want children as much as women, but nevertheless the drive is definitely there - especially recently. Fortunately, we have lots of dogs, so there is a sort of "outlet" for these particular urges. I even (half) joke that Elvis the Collie is my son.

Expressing love to animals definitely helps the urges, I've always adored caring for animals. My parrot Lui gets the very best care because of how much I enjoy seeing him content! It certainly lets out some of these motherly instincts (seeing to the needs of another). Sometimes I actually find myself saying "my baby" to him!

Whenever I feel these various physical urges, I try to imagine David Attenborough narrating a nature documentary about the mating habits of human beings. That usually helps to keep things more in perspective.

lol!!

 

[EMA]

Wow. Thanks everyone for your responses.

Before I was pregnant with my son I never intended to have children for all the same reasons being discussed in this post. My partner always wanted children so we were always torn with this because we knew we were going to have to let go of each other. And then oops, I got pregnant! Our son wasn't planned but he was the best thing that ever happened to us. However my partner still wanted another child and I didn't because I still had my same beliefs. So this has been a recurring discussion we have. Until recently.

Renaissance may be right in bringing up a biological instinct or pull.
Over the last few months I've been around a few infants and friends that have more than one child and then I started to have these thoughts of how great it would be to have another. So I'm thinking great am I actually having what some would call 'baby fever'? Some time goes by and the yearning is still there. Its very strong.

I have always wanted children, and sometimes the biological pull is REALLY strong. In order to get over it, I remember that I have made life decisions that a child would be born into, already at a disadvantage because he or she wasn't part of that decision originally. What if that baby doesn't want to do the Work, to live a life like mine? Until they grow up, they wouldn't have much choice not to be part of it. Then, even if things were to stay pretty stable and not change much from what they are now, I get terrified at the idea that the children may be taken by a psycho social worker just because I don't want to send them to school, give them vaccines, etc. Then, imagining that all the above doesn't happen (I do my very best, the system doesn't take them away, and the children have also chosen to be born and adhere to my not-so-standard worldview), as much as I may do my very best, I KNOW that it is very likely that I'll damage them somehow, even if I'm really lucky to live with people who would be the best family those children could have and good role models in the areas I may mess up with (that also puts pressure on them, so another reason!). I have yet to know one single person who actually received the type of love they wanted, and I don't think I am conscious and aware enough to be utterly selfless, and be able to listen and act based on what that being's real needs are. And, even if that wasn't so bad, there are other people to consider who may have a bad influence in them. Society as it is can be very damaging, as we know. But then, choosing to make your children live in a protected bubble doesn't allow them to learn from life either.

Hi Chu,

I completely feel this all the time with my son. We don't vaccinate him, his diet is different than all the other kids, we chose not to have cable tv , and we don't lie to him about santa and the easter bunny. Right now it's easy because he's only 3 1/2 years old but what happens when he finds out we live differently than his classmates and their families? Its worrisome to think that as he gets older that society may have more of an influence on him than his parents so we have to hope we can teach him and guide him in the right direction. If I chose to have another then if something were to happen later on and he/she was suffering I would feel terrible because I knew that this could happen and I decided to take a gamble anyway. With my first he wasn't planned so it's different.

Hello EMA, I am all for "going forth and multiplying".

Because "all there is, is lessons", and such an event will provide access for another soul to learn, and also provide new lessons for you and all the members of your family.
Personally, I am thankful that my parents birthed me, and I'm thankful for the foster parents who took me in when all that didn't work out. Lots of lessons learned there, for sure!

Don't live in fear, it will make you "food for the Moon".

The child you bear may well become the person who solves the problems of the world.
Or So I Think.

My partner leans more toward what MusicMan wrote but also understands all the other dilemmas.
Although now that it became more real that we could possibly have another child his mind has changed and we both know there is a lot to consider.

I feel that I've been fantasizing about what it would be like with another little one and how excited and happy it makes me feel. I've really played it out in my mind and pretty much made the decision to go for it and pushed all my other beliefs out the window. I should have asked the question much sooner on the forum. I feel like I strayed a bit off course.

I've made the decision not to and this may be strange but I'm feeling like I just had to say goodbye to this little soul that was waiting to join us even though I know it was an imaginary little soul.

 

[Tracy Anne]

I do worry what sort of a world my grandchildren will be born into, however I do have hope! Then I tell myself that the planet needs more smart aware people and those souls may have a purpose here. We really dont know do we?

Hi Tracy Anne,

I am interested to know whether you think hope would be of any benefit to someone seeking to see reality objectively?

Have you also considered that perhaps the latter quoted part of your post might merely be a narrative you have created to avoid facing the reality of the situation we are faced with, and which also essentially invalidates the "I do worry what sort of a world my grandchildren will be born into" part? I am suggesting this because it is easy to invalidate our own feelings, and reality to a large extent, through making justifications, wishfully thinking and spinning narratives in order to "soften the blow" and to reduce the shocks of life. Through reading the above part of your post, this was the impression I recieved.

I have no idea what you are talking about! :)

 

[Tracy Anne]

What are your thoughts on having children?

The reason I'm asking is because I'm so conflicted with wanting to have another child with the state that the planet is in in regards to all the corruption in capitalism, agriculture, medicine and government and its effects on humanity and the environment. As well as all the earth changes. Is it selfish? Should I not live in fear?

Thanks so much.

Hello EMA, I am all for "going forth and multiplying".

Because "all there is, is lessons", and such an event will provide access for another soul to learn, and also provide new lessons for you and all the members of your family.
Personally, I am thankful that my parents birthed me, and I'm thankful for the foster parents who took me in when all that didn't work out. Lots of lessons learned there, for sure!

Don't live in fear, it will make you "food for the Moon".

The child you bear may well become the person who solves the problems of the world.
Or So I Think.

What a lot of sense you make Musicman ;)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Have you also considered that perhaps the latter quoted part of your post might merely be a narrative you have created to avoid facing the reality of the situation we are faced with, and which also essentially invalidates the "I do worry what sort of a world my grandchildren will be born into" part? I am suggesting this because it is easy to invalidate our own feelings, and reality to a large extent, through making justifications, wishfully thinking and spinning narratives in order to "soften the blow" and to reduce the shocks of life. Through reading the above part of your post, this was the impression I recieved.

I have no idea what you are talking about! :)

Basically, are you sure you are not coming up with rationalizations in order to justify your desire to have a child, thus ignoring the 'bad' and convincing yourself it is actually 'good'? In other words, something like confirmation bias: looking for all the evidence that supports the conclusion you have already made (i.e., having another child is good), thus discounting all the potential reasons for why it may not be a good idea.

Or were you making a joke here? Not sure.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Hello EMA, I am all for "going forth and multiplying".

Really? All for? Can't think of any reasons it might not be a good idea?

Because "all there is, is lessons", and such an event will provide access for another soul to learn, and also provide new lessons for you and all the members of your family.

Yep, all is lessons. And it's up to each of us to decide "anything goes", and thus end up paying hard for lessons that could have been learned in less painful ways, or using knowledge to make what might be potentially wiser choices.

Personally, I am thankful that my parents birthed me, and I'm thankful for the foster parents who took me in when all that didn't work out. Lots of lessons learned there, for sure!

Me too. But that doesn't mean their choice has to be my choice. All is lessons!

Don't live in fear, it will make you "food for the Moon".

There's a difference between living in fear and making an informed choice out of conscience and in service of one's aim.

The child you bear may well become the person who solves the problems of the world.
Or So I Think.

Or the next Hitler. Such speculations shouldn't really come into the decision to have a child, IMO. The child will be whoever it is she comes to be. The question for me is: can I provide what she would really need? And are there forces beyond my control that would make that impossible?

 

[Keyhole]

Basically, are you sure you are not coming up with rationalizations in order to justify your desire to have a child, thus ignoring the 'bad' and convincing yourself it is actually 'good'? In other words, something like confirmation bias: looking for all the evidence that supports the conclusion you have already made (i.e., having another child is good), thus discounting all the potential reasons for why it may not be a good idea.

Or were you making a joke here? Not sure.

Tracy Anne wasn't speaking about her desire to have children AI, it was about her grandchildren. The question was in response to this post:

This is a good question EMA and it is wise to think consciously about this so you can arrive at the right decision for YOU.

My 2 children have grown up and I understand your concerns.

My 2 daughters and husbands are both planning to have children in the next two years. They are smart aware people ( though maybe not with the level of awareness that we have on the fourm) and I do worry what sort of a world my grandchildren will be born into, however I do have hope! Then I tell myself that the planet needs more smart aware people and those souls may have a purpose here. We really dont know do we?

Do you think we need to look at the way we raise children in this increasingly disturbing world and adapt? Is home schooling an option for you? These are questions running through my mind and it may be of help to you.

I have no idea what you are talking about! :)

Apologies if it was not easily understood, I will try to rephrase.

Basically, in one part of your post you said that you worry what sort of a world your grandchildren will be born into. This appears that you are acknowledging that we live in a horrible world thats not a nice environment for a child to grow up in.

Whereas, immediately following this you said you tell yourself "that the planet needs more smart aware people and those souls may have a purpose here". My question was: are you using this idea as a means of justifying bringing a child into the world, despite the fact that the world is not a nice place, mainly because you like the idea of having grandchildren?

The explanation of confirmation bias above is useful. To look for reasons/supporting evidence which supports your desire to have grandchildren ( Example:"the world needs more smart aware people"), while discarding the evidence that goes against your desire to have grandchildren ( Example: the world is a bad place".

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Tracy Anne wasn't speaking about her desire to have children AI, it was about her grandchildren.

Whoops. My bad! Lost track of posts there. Sorry, Tracey Anne!

 

[T.C.]

I look around me at parents with kids. I work on holiday resorts, so I see concentrated numbers of families regularly.

It's very difficult to go 5mins around one of these places without seeing or hearing a child crying, screaming, arguing, parents shouting and screaming at the kids, at each other. Then, just today at the supermarket, a mother with 3 kids, screaming, shouting and paddying, mother cursing and swearing at them.

All around me I see damaged people damaging their children. And what have kids got these days? Tablets, smart phones, video games, the internet, bringing them daily exposure to violence and a truly sick culture.

I love kids, but I've never wanted any. I adore my nieces and nephews, find it very fulfilling to help children develop as musicians, and totally appreciate the reasons people would want a family.

But all we are supposed to be is food for the lizzies. We're livestock. This world is hell. The idea that we're supposed to propagate our species because we owe it to the universe? I'm sorry, but I choose not to.

If the pain, abuse, misery and suffering of our species was purely physical, and instead of all the multi-layered methods the lizzies have come up with to extract the maximum amount of juice from us, they just had greys come round our houses every night and beat us up with baseball bats, could there really be, in that case, any argument for bringing more children into the world?

 

[theos]

I don't have children but there were a few brief periods on my life when I did. All of the reasons were selfish and narcissistic. The primary one being to right the wrongs of my own upbringing and in a way, live vicariously through my child (most preferably a daughter) which is nothing but a recipe for disaster. All this was before I knew what I know now regarding being food for the moon and the absolutely hellish conditions of this planet.

I've joked about having a secret, off-the-grid baby to protect her from the evils of the world, the school system, vaccinations etc. because I would literally want to kill someone for harming my child in any way. But even having a secret baby would be fraught with danger considering 4D STS.

Any feelings I have to mother are spent on my cat and on the times I see my little nieces and nephew (though even times with them is bittersweet as their futures on this planet look exceedingly grim).

So for now and for ever more my baby factory is closed for business.

 

[Al Today]

[...}
But all we are supposed to be is food for the lizzies. We're livestock. This world is hell. The idea that we're supposed to propagate our species because we owe it to the universe?
[...]

Just me here but methinks there is so much more than this. Beyond our comprehension. With the physical part of us HERE, "today", methinks is such a small part of all and forever. It is said. "All there is is lessons". How can one learn any lesson without a chance to learn? Granted, we all have choices. Children are not for every lesson plan. We own nothing, we owe nothing and we are nothing, but we all do have lessons. Except for those of us who are mechanical sacks of meat and water of course... :)

Edit: The garbage we are going through "HERE" is not "EVERYWHERE". We choose to be born here, for a reason, I would guess. And also, we choose not to "propagate" and this is fine. All is as it should be.

 

[T.C.]

How can one learn any lesson without a chance to learn?

Yeah, that's the crux. But as others have said and I've often thought myself, there's billions of people on the planet creating plenty of bodies to incarnate into.

But I'm trying to learn how to detatch myself from this particular place and its rules because as much as I understand the function of it, it disgusts me. So the last thing I'd want to do is add another soul into it.

I mean 7.5b people? REALLY?? The Universe obviously doesn't think that many people living on this planet is a good idea because every time the population reaches this kind of number, it wipes most of us off the face of the planet.

I take that as a massive hint.

 

[Meg]

I've never really had a desire to have children either. When I did, it was fleeting and for narcissistic reasons. With genetics being what they are, who knows what is lurking in my DNA that would be propagated with the offspring; physical disabilities, mental disorders, other types of genetic bullets.

It is an enduring, suffering madhouse here on the planet and I couldn't choose to bring life into such a place.

 

[BHelmet]

Hi - I don't mean to be running from anything - I still have to catch up on all the responses and see what I learn. I will respond when I get a chance. I have been fasting for a week now with lots of family stuff going on too. Thanks.

 

[Tracy Anne]

Basically, are you sure you are not coming up with rationalizations in order to justify your desire to have a child, thus ignoring the 'bad' and convincing yourself it is actually 'good'? In other words, something like confirmation bias: looking for all the evidence that supports the conclusion you have already made (i.e., having another child is good), thus discounting all the potential reasons for why it may not be a good idea.

Or were you making a joke here? Not sure.

Tracy Anne wasn't speaking about her desire to have children AI, it was about her grandchildren. The question was in response to this post:

This is a good question EMA and it is wise to think consciously about this so you can arrive at the right decision for YOU.

My 2 children have grown up and I understand your concerns.

My 2 daughters and husbands are both planning to have children in the next two years. They are smart aware people ( though maybe not with the level of awareness that we have on the fourm) and I do worry what sort of a world my grandchildren will be born into, however I do have hope! Then I tell myself that the planet needs more smart aware people and those souls may have a purpose here. We really dont know do we?

Do you think we need to look at the way we raise children in this increasingly disturbing world and adapt? Is home schooling an option for you? These are questions running through my mind and it may be of help to you.

I have no idea what you are talking about! :)

Apologies if it was not easily understood, I will try to rephrase.

Basically, in one part of your post you said that you worry what sort of a world your grandchildren will be born into. This appears that you are acknowledging that we live in a horrible world thats not a nice environment for a child to grow up in.

Whereas, immediately following this you said you tell yourself "that the planet needs more smart aware people and those souls may have a purpose here". My question was: are you using this idea as a means of justifying bringing a child into the world, despite the fact that the world is not a nice place, mainly because you like the idea of having grandchildren?

The explanation of confirmation bias above is useful. To look for reasons/supporting evidence which supports your desire to have grandchildren ( Example:"the world needs more smart aware people"), while discarding the evidence that goes against your desire to have grandchildren ( Example: the world is a bad place".

Thanks for re phrasing this Keyhole.

First of all it is out of my control whether I have grandchildren or not, so lets get that clear. I am open to the suggestion that I may be justifying one being born into this crazy world, however it is just a theory of mine, that we need more smart STO potential people on the planet. Makes sense doesnt it? Then again we cannot guarantee that the soul would be STO potential could we? So yes, I could be waaaay off!