What are your thoughts on having children?

[Lukasz]

So, for now I am going to allow myself to imagine it, to feel it, and I am going to do like we were going to bring a baby in this world in the coming years.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with thinking about having children and I can identify with you partly. Those romance novels really stir up feelings that didn't manifest in me before. I started to ponder more about the possibility of eventually finding the right partner and starting a family. It's hard to read so many great romance stories with happy endings and not to begin imagining myself, at least for a moment, in a similar situation as the protagonists.

I totally understand the reasons behind your and your partner's decision to not have children. Some time ago it was also my decision. But lately, I was thinking about it and came to the conclusion that if I'm making such a decision, I'm trying to control my life too much. And now I think it's not good to control but rather accept what life brings to you. To be open to all possibilities in order to not miss any lessons. So I perceive thinking about having a child (while being truly open to the possibility that it may not happen in this life) as a better approach than making a strict decision to not have children.

If I remember correctly, in one of the sessions, the C's said something like "possession is key" (in the context that it's STS). And I think it is also relevant here. If you would like to see something in your life but you don't want to possess it no matter what, everything should be ok. And whether you eventually will have children in this life or not, probably has much to do with your lessons and karmic profile. So I guess it's best to be open and "never say never"

 

[KTC]

@Lys as a parent with an 11yr old child I can honestly say that if I had the insight I have today I definitely would not have brought another human being into this World.

I found this forum when my son was 4 months old and I have spent many nights racked with guilt for having been so blind, so reckless and so ignorant that I actually thought that having a child was a good idea. Being part of this forum, reading the books recommended and opening my eyes to the reality of what we are living in was a very good reason not to have any other children while our friends were all growing their families we were dealing with pressure from everyone to have more, pressure from everywhere to conform and a deepening understanding of what we had bought into.

Of course my child is the love of my life and we spend a lot of time doing the work as is appropriate for his age but it is hard and every single day is a slog. Imagine all the things you are learning and putting into practice and how mindful you have to be not to be pulled back into the system all the time - and then 2 fold that. Every friend, every parent, every teacher, every stranger at the playground is at opposite sides of the table and you have to work with your child every single day to help them see. And you are only one person of influence so unless you want to keep your child at home 24 hours a day with no access to the outside World you have to work hard all the time to allow your child the space they need to make their own choices without being fed into the system that seeks to brainwash and destroy them.

Remember what a lonely journey this is for you, the choices and the sacrifices you have made to keep waking yourself up and consider very deeply if you wish that on someone else.

My heart aches for my son every day. For the pain he is experiencing in this new messed up normal and for the choices he has to make as a child if he wants to see the truth. Because right now, even children are having to pull back the veil, to see the evil, to recognise the propaganda that is being fed to them every minute of every day and they have to carry that burden in silence so that they don't get picked on by their peers, by their teachers and by other parents for being weird, for being different and for being real.

Not to mention the reality of having our children taken away from us if we don't conform, watching our children starve, seeing our children suffer and sending our children into the future of this current World climate.

I realise that to have a child is a very personal decision and I think it is very brave of you to share your feelings here. If I were to consider having anther child I would have to sit and ask myself one question very seriously and that would be WHY?

 

[BHelmet]

Having children, or... not having children is a big part of the karmic and simple 3D understandings and Lesson Plans our souls have signed up for. As for another child, no, the way this world is at the current time, I definitely would not. Someone else might. But there is no intrinsically "right" answer.

It's a choice. Yes, there are ramifications, karma, consequences, and emotions. And all of it is the fodder of the great lessons. Whether you do or don't.

 

[Jono]

A big no from me. I would like to in a world that isn't run by psychopaths. I think it's a beautiful experience for a lot of parents and part of me does feel robbed that there will probably never be a suitable time for it. Also after reading Criminal Mind and seeing first hand that it doesn't really matter how good your genetics or upbringing are, you are not guaranteed to have a child with a soul that is anything like yours - it could turn out to be an extremely painful lesson.

 

[ryu]

@Lys thank you very much for sharing this. I have been struggling with this too. Reading about romance novels, seeing my friends becoming parents made me want to take care, nurture a family.Also seeing so many other couples like you and starshine who choose to wait for better days, it's painful. These last months especially, the fact that I will most probably never be a mother really started to sink in, and your post broke the camel's back and opened the flood gates, so to say.
Knowing so much about our world, how much children are suffering, especially since the start of this covid madness, I thought it was selfish to want to be a mother. But I didn't allowed myself to "feel" and jugded myself harshly for something that is all too human. So since yesterday, I am with my pain and I allow myself to cry for those children I will probably never bring into the world. Maybe it's all for the better that I feel this pain now, because I know now I am strong enough to handle it.
But again, thank you. Your words resonated with what's in my heart, and helped me. Take care of you

 

[Lys]

Knowing so much about our world, how much children are suffering, especially since the start of this covid madness, I thought it was selfish to want to be a mother. But I didn't allowed myself to "feel" and jugded myself harshly for something that is all too human. So since yesterday, I am with my pain and I allow myself to cry for those children I will probably never bring into the world. Maybe it's all for the better that I feel this pain now, because I know now I am strong enough to handle it.
But again, thank you. Your words resonated with what's in my heart, and helped me. Take care of you

ryu thank you too. Knowing that my words may have helped if only one person is a great reward. And it is a relief to know that I am not alone with those feelings even if I wish not to anyone this pain.
Damned romance novels ! I would never have expected that they would cause this kind of emotions.
Take care of yourself too, I wish you some peaceful times in order to live this moment calmly.

 

[KJS]

Thanks everyone for very interesting discussion. As a father of a 1.5 year old child I’d like to add that there are moments that bring absolutely the worst traits of your personality that you must face. Especially, after days of physical and psychical exhaustion because of lack of sleep and stress. You barely have a mental energy for self-remembering, and almost zero free time to pursue your goals. At the same time, it is very tough on your relationship (minor differences are amplified tenfold). Labor was also the most ambivalent experience in my life… Seeing someone in such pain (for 12 hours in our case), and being completely helpless about it, induced almost out of body dissociation experience for me. Counting all the arguments against, it is clear that there are powerful influences at play, which I had chosen to be under… Certainly the hardest lesson for me so far.

 

[Chu]

Lys, I was going to reply to your post from yesterday on the romance novels thread, but I think it fits better here:

Then I've been thinking a lot about the child that I would never bring to the world, a world where I couldn't raise a child according to my values without being on the wrong side of the law.
I won't repeat myself too much as I have already posted about it in this thread : what-are-your-thoughts-on-having-children

I think all this is very understandable and that it's good never to suppress it.

But also, keep in mind that what these books ALSO stir is pain, something that is easy to forget when desiring to have children. When you imagine, sometimes it also helps to include the painful stuff. That is, not just thinking about the baby being born, the first years of life, the glorious moments of seeing them learn and discover, become independent, etc. But also taking into account that many people go through horrors, with a child dying, getting sick, or choosing a disastrous path, etc. Add to that the current social climate, and you don't even have to try hard to see the possible difficulties, as you already do.

Perhaps it can help to consider that you've probably had many lives where you were a mother already. And that maybe that "motherly" trait you described here can also be manifested differently in this life, even without children. In fact, because you love all your children (the ones you had and couldn't protect, the ones you did your best by, the ones you would have had, other people's children, etc.) and choose to offer something else this time around.

Even the motherly attitude you have towards others in this life, and which you described above, could possibly be things you are resolving from other times, and a part of you chooses to do it in a different context for now, not with children. Who knows? The important thing is to learn.

So, for now I am going to allow myself to imagine it, to feel it, and I am going to do like we were going to bring a baby in this world in the coming years.
It may not be the case, and I am aware of it but, for now I really need to feel it as this is the only source of motivation I get today.
Everything I could do next seems very ancillary to me without this in mind.

Something you could add to that is to think of how you can already be like the mother you would like to be. What are the actual traits that you want to develop/manifest, and how to put them to use now? No, it's not the same, and may be a small consolation for you, but I think it helps separate the biological drives and conditioning, from more noble longings and things you can manifest in your life right now. That can put you in a better position to decide later on.

Finally, if world circumstances make you decide that it's not the right time/life to have children, there are many other "babies" you can create, on your own, and together with Starshine. The point is not procreation per se, but creation. And that can be done in many, many ways!

There are other reasons that other people described in this thread, but you know those already. The choice is yours, and I think that what is most important is that you make a decision with as much knowledge as possible, and as much concern for your loved ones, both living and not yet incarnated. I am one of those that decided not to be a mother in this life, and the things above helped many times and still do. But you have to see what is in your real path, and follow it.

I hope this helps.

 

[Maya]

@Lys as a parent with an 11yr old child I can honestly say that if I had the insight I have today I definitely would not have brought another human being into this World.

I found this forum when my son was 4 months old and I have spent many nights racked with guilt for having been so blind, so reckless and so ignorant that I actually thought that having a child was a good idea. Being part of this forum, reading the books recommended and opening my eyes to the reality of what we are living in was a very good reason not to have any other children while our friends were all growing their families we were dealing with pressure from everyone to have more, pressure from everywhere to conform and a deepening understanding of what we had bought into.

Of course my child is the love of my life and we spend a lot of time doing the work as is appropriate for his age but it is hard and every single day is a slog. Imagine all the things you are learning and putting into practice and how mindful you have to be not to be pulled back into the system all the time - and then 2 fold that. Every friend, every parent, every teacher, every stranger at the playground is at opposite sides of the table and you have to work with your child every single day to help them see. And you are only one person of influence so unless you want to keep your child at home 24 hours a day with no access to the outside World you have to work hard all the time to allow your child the space they need to make their own choices without being fed into the system that seeks to brainwash and destroy them.

Remember what a lonely journey this is for you, the choices and the sacrifices you have made to keep waking yourself up and consider very deeply if you wish that on someone else.

My heart aches for my son every day. For the pain he is experiencing in this new messed up normal and for the choices he has to make as a child if he wants to see the truth. Because right now, even children are having to pull back the veil, to see the evil, to recognise the propaganda that is being fed to them every minute of every day and they have to carry that burden in silence so that they don't get picked on by their peers, by their teachers and by other parents for being weird, for being different and for being real.

Not to mention the reality of having our children taken away from us if we don't conform, watching our children starve, seeing our children suffer and sending our children into the future of this current World climate.

I realise that to have a child is a very personal decision and I think it is very brave of you to share your feelings here. If I were to consider having anther child I would have to sit and ask myself one question very seriously and that would be WHY?

@batty76 , you could not say this any better, I totally agree. It's painfull to watch my doughter who is 13 growing up
in the wonderfull, creative and talented person, but frustrated cause she can not express herself
in any way right now, or next to nothing.
Few months ago she was so depresed ( when there was only online school)
I was scared that she will harm herself..
In theory she understands everything but some days when she cryes and says ' WTH can I do, just waith for 'the end ?!'..
It breaks your heart..

 

[Mililea]

I watched one of Laura's videos yesterday and I think maybe it fits here quite well: Knowledge and Being Part 5
Every person has his/her own reality in which he/she makes decisions based on the current state of knowledge. You can never know in advance where it will lead.

I myself have a daughter who is now 19 years old. She was a so-called "accident" but nevertheless wanted with all my heart. But I would say without thinking. At 19, I had two miscarriages within a year, which brought me pretty much to the ground. And the doctors told me that I could no longer have children in the normal way. So I stopped using contraception too. Because from that point on, my only desire was to have a child. Very selfish and self-centred according to what I know today. It didn't work. Since I tried out all sorts of different careers and only found MY profession at the age of 24 and started training as a graphic designer, I wanted to prevent myself from having a child and wanted to have this rod inserted in my upper arm for contraception. The doctor said we had to wait for my next period to place it. What can I say... that period never came and my daughter was on her way. I was very happy about it and still finished my education at the same time.
We went through many hard times since she was born, as described in other posts. I had to think of that when I read your post Chu.

But also, keep in mind that what these books ALSO stir is pain, something that is easy to forget when desiring to have children. When you imagine, sometimes it also helps to include the painful stuff. That is, not just thinking about the baby being born, the first years of life, the glorious moments of seeing them learn and discover, become independent, etc. But also taking into account that many people go through horrors, with a child dying, getting sick, or choosing a disastrous path, etc. Add to that the current social climate, and you don't even have to try hard to see the possible difficulties, as you already do.

Since I had this little human in my womb I have felt great fear and responsibility and when she was born even more. But when this horrible accident happened (my daughter fell into a hot bathtub when she was 2.5 years old and almost died from the burns and the current consequences in her body) this fear became immense. And there are more situations where you feel this fear and at the same time you know you have to let them go and have their own experiences. Even if it is not easy sometimes. I was also allowed to have my experiences as a child/adolescent and build my own reality.

But what I'm getting at is that I personally wouldn't want to take on that responsibility now. I don't want a child to have to live in this present time because of my decision. It's hard enough to make decisions for yourself. And I imagine what it would be like with a small baby or toddler in times of possible food shortages or a natural disaster. I think of the film The Road Trailer

Maybe I'm thinking too darkly about this and the souls that are incarnating now are just brave souls that have consciously decided to do this right now. It is also possible that it is an honour and a spiritual decision of the mother to have a child right now. But for me, also due to my age, it is simply decided that I will not have another child.

Finally, if world circumstances make you decide that it's not the right time/life to have children, there are many other "babies" you can create, on your own, and together with Starshine. The point is not procreation per se, but creation. And that can be done in many, many ways!

My new baby is really the work on me and with you, that I take care of and feed, that I love and nurture. I have waited far too long for this. Thanks for the food for thought Chu.... nice to see it that way.

 

[Obi]

But what I'm getting at is that I personally wouldn't want to take on that responsibility now. I don't want a child to have to live in this present time because of my decision. It's hard enough to make decisions for yourself. And I imagine what it would be like with a small baby or toddler in times of possible food shortages or a natural disaster. I think of the film The Road Trailer

Thanks for the post and the link to the trailer. Interesting movie it is. I found it on the YT for free and will watch it today.

Here is the link:

Enjoy!

As for the issue of having children nowadays, I remember when my wife got pregnant back in 2004 and I shared the news on the QFS discussion board. Laura wrote a post along the same lines Chu in the last paragraph that I could use the energy that will go to raising a child to contribute to the network to help to create a better future. At that time we felt the changes were imminent and by 2012 things would be "over", but due to Laura's and this network's efforts look how far we have come. It is 2021 and we are still around and we may still have a few more years to go before the show is over. Meanwhile, my son is almost 16, grew to be a 6,3" / 220 pound giant (still growing) and you would not want to mess around with him. I do not regret having him in these end times and I would do it again. I told him all I know from Laura and the C's and he is well aware of the current world issues like psychopathy of the Elite, the Secret Government, the second Sun, comets, UFO and the Wave. This is part of his world view now and I think he will be well prepared to resist the domination of 4D when the time comes. After all it is his generation that will have to deal with the aftermath of what's coming and with expelling of the 4D STS forces from this planet.

Lastly, I believe that we have no right to judge whether a soul should incarnate during these trying times or not. We lack the 5D perspective to understand why it may be desirable to be in the body now despite all the coming hardships. So, yeah, I agree that the energy spent to raise a child could be used to create a better future, but we also need a new generation of people whom WE can educate and transfer our knowledge, so they can do something about it when we will not be able to due to age. What better way to do it than having a child and teaching them about this reality and how to change it considering it will be our children who will apply this knowledge and make the change, OSIT.

 

[Can Won]

This is a topic that reared it's head for my wife and I a number of years back.
When we got round to discussing having children, the one thing that really stood out for me was the assumption that it's a foregone conclusion that we could even have children.
It's not guaranteed and therefore we spent alot of time discussing how we would feel if we couldn't.
I've watched the turmoil this has caused between a couple and the emotional strain that goes with it.

It appears to be vitally important that the relationship between the potential parents is strong enough to withstand such a situation, I have seen first hand many people, relatives included, who were so desperate to have children that their choice of partner was compromised by the overruling desire to simply have a child.
Once a child does arrive, the responsibility that comes with it is by far the hardest job that one can take on and if your relationship is not solid, cracks will soon appear.
As we well know now, it can take a long time before you get to see someone in their true light.
What was a tough job to start out with could become a lot tougher, especially if you end up doing it on your own.
Personally I feel that these are particular points that should be high up on the list of potential scenarios, when contemplating whether to have children. Let alone the current situation we are living through!

Those who have children already and are struggling with the guilt of bringing them into this world may find it beneficial to be more open with their children about what is actually going on and perhaps even why they're here.
The sooner you know something, the easier it is to deal with, no matter how painful the chosen subject is.
We don't avoid talking about what it is going on in the world and the behaviour of those around them, but we also try to help them understand why it is happening.

That's going off on another tangent to the thread through, so I'll stop there before I get carried away!

 

[AndrewMn]

Sorry, maybe the thread is no longer so relevant. But I agree with the girls above. It seems to me that always in different parts of the world, there were difficult times for the birth and education of children. When somewhere there was a bloody war, somewhere on the other side of the world, there was a happy childhood. Various lessons. Uncle @Korzik18 was born in World War II. When he was one year old, he and his mother hid in the swamps, and nearby the Nazis burned down their village. But they survived. The boy grew up and became a wonderful surgeon. A respectable person. He brought up his sons, smart and responsible people. Also doctors who are now helping others.

To have children or not - it should be only your personal choice, possibly based on reason, intuition, feelings. And yes, this is perhaps a lot of happiness, as well as difficulties and lessons. But the desire to go only the simple way is not always the right choice.

 

[Lys]

Thank you all for your contribution to help myself to have a better view on this topic.

Chu, thank you so much for your reply. Indeed, it helps.

But also, keep in mind that what these books ALSO stir is pain, something that is easy to forget when desiring to have children. When you imagine, sometimes it also helps to include the painful stuff. That is, not just thinking about the baby being born, the first years of life, the glorious moments of seeing them learn and discover, become independent, etc. But also taking into account that many people go through horrors, with a child dying, getting sick, or choosing a disastrous path, etc. Add to that the current social climate, and you don't even have to try hard to see the possible difficulties, as you already do.

That is something that comes to my mind every time I think about being parents with Starshine. This is why I felt very selfish for having this wish.
I just acknowledged not long ago that it was normal and that it was not wrong to have the desire to be a mother.
And this pain I could cause to a living being brings myself back to reality and to the fact that it is definitely not a good time to have a child. But I don't want to put the pain aside when thinking about it as it would not be right nor me being true to myself.

Something you could add to that is to think of how you can already be like the mother you would like to be. What are the actual traits that you want to develop/manifest, and how to put them to use now? No, it's not the same, and may be a small consolation for you, but I think it helps separate the biological drives and conditioning, from more noble longings and things you can manifest in your life right now. That can put you in a better position to decide later on.

Yes you are very right as while I allow myself from time to time to imagine preparing myself for having a child, it always helps me to think about what I would have to do in order to be healthy, the house to be ready, the knowledge I must still gather and grow. That is the good side of the fact that now, I don't feel so much guilt about this wish. So it helps me to put it aside and go forward.
I guess I just have to find my path out, it is still a bit vague.

Moreover, I think that what I live currently, my sister-in-law living at our place since November with her two kids, helps me every day to know more about what I would like to develop and manifest as a "mother".
At least I know the kind of mother I don't want to be ! My sister-in-law is quite an example of it... But I'll stop here as I could get nasty on this topic.

Thank you again Chu, your post warmed my heart.

I myself have a daughter who is now 19 years old. She was a so-called "accident" but nevertheless wanted with all my heart. But I would say without thinking. At 19, I had two miscarriages within a year, which brought me pretty much to the ground. And the doctors told me that I could no longer have children in the normal way. So I stopped using contraception too. Because from that point on, my only desire was to have a child. Very selfish and self-centred according to what I know today. It didn't work. Since I tried out all sorts of different careers and only found MY profession at the age of 24 and started training as a graphic designer, I wanted to prevent myself from having a child and wanted to have this rod inserted in my upper arm for contraception. The doctor said we had to wait for my next period to place it. What can I say... that period never came and my daughter was on her way. I was very happy about it and still finished my education at the same time.
We went through many hard times since she was born, as described in other posts. I had to think of that when I read your post Chu.

Thank you too Mililea.
You did what you had to do while you didn't know as much as now, and I think that's all at your credit.

I talked to my father about the topic of children, about the fact that Starshine and I would probably never have children. While he respects our decision he told me that for his part he really wanted children, a family and, that he made everything he could for my sister, my brother and me to be happy.
I think he was kind of justifying himself for having children, and I am not annoyed with him at all, on the contrary I thank him every time I can for what I have been able to experience so far the good and the bad, and I tried to reassure him as I am sure that he did his best and at this time he didn't know anything about what we are aware of today.

That's why as long as the global situation is as it is now, I would think that I would be very selfish to bring a human being on this world.
And maybe I met Starshine on his path and got interested on what he lived here on the forum before having the wish of having a child just because motherhood maybe not my lesson of this life.
As Chu said, I could use this "motherly" behavior toward another aim. And having your daughter is probably yours, and I am glad for you that your path brought you in here on time.

 

[ephemerality]

Unnecessary karma/momentum due to a further attachment to the 3D illusion.